Reatta restoration - hood hinges

[Fox W.]

Hi, after having my car restored I am finding that the hood does not rest the same way. One side is more flush/even slightly lower than the fender, and the other side (driver) is higher than the fender, enough so that it is very noticeable to me as flaw. The body shop said something to the extent that they noticed one of the hinges had 'play' in it. What I find when closing the hood slowly is that the passenger side where it sits lower collapses more, where the driver-side does not fully I think. When it is closed you can push down on the driver-side hood edge near the windshield where it is highest and feel the play I think they meant.

The thing is I don't really see how these hinges could go bad like that, does anyone here have actual experience with this and know if the issue is really part(s) or is it adjustment somehow? The bolts that connect the hinge to the hood are unable to make nearly enough alteration to fix this. Simple stuff like that has been tried.

Thanks.

[2seater]

Are both gas springs installed exactly the same?

[Guest 88reattacoupe]

There is a height adjustment bolt at each rear corner of the hood. It is little more than a bolt with a pubber cap on it. On the passenger side, I'm sure that screwing this out a little more will result in your hood on that side to rest higher. The problem on the drivers side is beyond my understanding. Its also strange that the body shop did not bring this up.

[2seater]

I did forget about the rear stops, so that is a good call. Perhaps the stop on the drivers side is jacked up too high? The reason I mentioned the gas springs is if they were installed backwards and you try to close the hood, it is possible to actually bend the mechanism or the hood itself. It is easy to get them wrong if not careful. I agree with 88 that the body shop should have noticed this on reassembly?

[Fox W.]

Thanks for the replies. I will check with them if they ever even removed the hood and if not then how or why would this have changed.. They did notice and mentioned 'play' in one hinge when I asked. They are a really good shop despite this mistake. I will take pictures so you all can see what I mean.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Fox W. (see edit history)

[Fox W.]

The first thing I had checked were those rubber-topped bolts, it doesn't matter how low I make it on that high-side. If I close the hood very slowly, I will find the passenger-side (the one that looks correct) collapses/dips much lower at a certain point when you are pretty close to the latch, while the driver-side remains higher.

Here are some pictures that show it while latched, which makes it look the worse. When it is unlatched the left higher-side is still too high, but not as bad. This is really bugging me as it is an eye-sore on an otherwise great looking car. Thanks.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Fox W. (see edit history)

[Machiner 55]

Fox,

I'm not saying that this is the complete answer to your problem but, check that the mount for the hood lift strut on the high side is installed correctly.

I installed new struts for my hood a few days ago and when I closed the hood the L.H. side was sticking up whereas it wasn't before the installation. Found that I'd mounted the the top mount incorrectly. I took the two screws out and flipped the mount 180* and put the screws back in and all was right with the world once again. You should compare the right and left side hinges and see if they are mounted in a similar fashion. Maybe post pics of them?

(Hell of a nice paint job on that car.)

John F.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Machiner 55 (see edit history)

[zoltanb]

It looks like you have 2 problems, it looks like the hood extends past the upper bumper filler and at some point the hood has been flexed at the hinge because of a bad hinge or more than likely the hood strut. Body shop should have caught these problems.

[Fox W.]

Hi, I should have mentioned that I have confirmed the hood struts were reinstalled properly. But I will post pictures of them just as a sanity check.

Fox,

I'm not saying that this is the complete answer to your problem but, check that the mount for the hood lift strut on the high side is installed correctly.

I installed new struts for my hood a few days ago and when I closed the hood the L.H. side was sticking up whereas it wasn't before the installation. Found that I'd mounted the the top mount incorrectly. I took the two screws out and flipped the mount 180* and put the screws back in and all was right with the world once again. You should compare the right and left side hinges and see if they are mounted in a similar fashion. Maybe post pics of them?

(Hell of a nice paint job on that car.)

John F.

[Fox W.]

Yes I completely agree about the 'overbite' and I only really realized that recently when looking at other Reattas. Any idea if that is adjustable/fixable? I wonder why it was installed this way. As for the struts, unless they previously did it wrong and then corrected for it, they look correct. I will ask them about what they did exactly. I know they painted the under-side of the hood, since there were no stickers to worry about. They also painted the hinges. I think they removed the hinges/struts together from the hood.

It looks like you have 2 problems, it looks like the hood extends past the upper bumper filler and at some point the hood has been flexed at the hinge because of a bad hinge or more than likely the hood strut. Body shop should have caught these problems.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Fox W. (see edit history)

[zoltanb]

The over bite can be corrected by loosening the two cross bars at the inside of the head lights, the bottom bolt is a little hard to get to. I used the scissors jack to push forward while tightening everything back. The flexed hood can be straightened with two carpeted straight edges clamped to the top and bottom side of the hood.

[Fox W.]

The over bite can be corrected by loosening the two cross bars at the inside of the head lights, the bottom bolt is a little hard to get to. I used the scissors jack to push forward while tightening everything back. The flexed hood can be straightened with two carpeted straight edges clamped to the top and bottom side of the hood.

Interesting. I am having a hard time picturing the hood bending proceedure. I myself, and a friend worked on it for a couple hours and contemplated if it had been bent but could not detect the evidence. If it is then it is a very gradual/subtle bend.

[zoltanb]

Put a 12" straight edge with 6" on either side of the strut and walk it out both directions you should be able to see about half the variation that the hood is high from the fender. I think a 24" level may work as well but the hood does have a natural curve.

[Machiner 55]

Fox,

Just a flash thought.

An idea that just came to me. Get some 30 minute epoxy. A lot of it. and some coat hangers. Several and a too to cut them. And some waxed paper. and a roll of masking tape. lay a sheet of wax paper in the hood lengthwise along the good side of the hood. open and straighten the coat hangers. do enough to run two parallel rods on top of the wax paper. Space them about 1/8 inch apart. Bend them in such a way that they follow the contour of the hood along the hood/fender seam. Tape both ends so they don't move. Mix and apply the epoxy to the coat hanger rods. Wait until it sets and hardens. Remove the tape and the waxed paper. you now have a mold that shows the proper contour of the hood that you can use as a guide when trying to straighten the other side. Might work. Or, use this idea as a spring board to come up with an idea of your own.

John F.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Machiner 55 (see edit history)

[ol' yeller]

Fox. to check if the struts are bending the hood, just completely remove the struts and see how the hood closes. If the bend goes away, you have an issue with how the struts are installed. I was surprised how easy it was to mis-install the strut on a prior Reatta. The bend in the hood looked just like yours. I seem to remember reading here that the bend could be permanent but that was not the case for me.

[Ronnie]

Hood Strut Replacement Instructions - Reatta Owners Journal

[Fox W.]

There is a shortage of good angles/closeups of the front of the Reatta for pictures when searching google images. Anyone here have some they can post so I can show the body shop in good details what the front edges and rear edges of the hood should look like in regards to line-up with the other panels? (Or in my case I guess the panel under the hood may also be too far back.) They haven't said they needed this but I just wanted to show them how it should look to make my point clearer.

[zoltanb]

Hope these help

[Fox W.]

That does help, and that is really beautiful too.

[Guest Corvanti]

i don't know if this will help, but when i purchased my reatta, i had a similar problem on the right side of the hood as shown on your post#6 pics. i found that where the #T30 torx screws attach the hood (and the upper hinges) - all the way down that side, were loose - and the attachment points were bent "up" just a bit from the correct angle. i bent the angle back to as close to correct as i could, and tightened all the torx bolts. that brought the hood down to "level"...

i don't know if the cause for the front hood problem could be or have been caused by a "hood stop" being too high, but thought i'd include a pic. (excuse the peeling paint, i'll get "a round tuit" )...

hope this helps, or at least rules it out.

[Bushwack]

There is a shortage of good angles/closeups of the front of the Reatta for pictures when searching google images. Anyone here have some they can post so I can show the body shop in good details what the front edges and rear edges of the hood should look like in regards to line-up with the other panels? (Or in my case I guess the panel under the hood may also be too far back.) They haven't said they needed this but I just wanted to show them how it should look to make my point clearer.

You will have to go through the pictures that apply but maybe these links will help you:

1990 Buick Reatta Convertible Photos by Bushwack44 | Photobucket

20120607 Reatta White Tan Conv Slideshow by Bushwack44 | Photobucket

20120603 Reatta Rally Slideshow by Bushwack44 | Photobucket

1990 Buick Reatta - Red Photos by Bushwack44 | Photobucket

1990 Reatta White Tan Coupe Photos by Bushwack44 | Photobucket

I have others in hi-res if you need them.

[Fox W.]

Thanks all, and here are the pictures that were requested:

[Fox W.]

These were great, thank you.

You will have to go through the pictures that apply but maybe these links will help you:

1990 Buick Reatta Convertible Photos by Bushwack44 | Photobucket

20120607 Reatta White Tan Conv Slideshow by Bushwack44 | Photobucket

20120603 Reatta Rally Slideshow by Bushwack44 | Photobucket

1990 Buick Reatta - Red Photos by Bushwack44 | Photobucket

1990 Reatta White Tan Coupe Photos by Bushwack44 | Photobucket

I have others in hi-res if you need them.

[Machiner 55]

Fox,

My guess right now is that when they installed the hood, they screwed-up. Big-Time. First, they bent it, (exactly how will never be known) then re-assembled it. The pics serve to confirm that all the hardware is installed correctly. They bent your hood and no one there is going to own up to it for fear of deportation. And, no one there is going to tell on the other for fear of being "shanked". That's my cold hard opinion and I'm sticking to it.

John F.

Another idea for making a mold form. Find a material that would act as a mold release and protective covering. Lay it along the good side of the hook or another known good hood. Say a good one from a salvage yard. (Don't have to remove the hood from the car. Do it right there in the yard.) Lay some form of stiffeners such as coat hangers or wooden dowels old fishing rods or whatever. Spray a bead or two of that "Great Stuff" expanding foam insulation along the top of the protective sheet. When the foam sets, you will have a form that has the correct camber to compare sides.

John F.

[NCReatta]

Your hood does not look bent. It doesn't even look like the shop removed the hood to paint it. Let's not jump to conclusions and play the blame game.

Seems to me you just need to have them line up the driver side by loosening the bolts on the hinges and lining it up correctly.

If after the realignment, you still have issues closing your hood, you will need another hood hinge.

[Fox W.]

I am having trouble picturing how the hood hinges go bad like that. A few nights ago I had a friend help by supporting the hood while I removed the drive-side hinge from it and then I moved the hinge around so I could feel its operation. It felt just like the spare one I bought from Jim last week, it collapsed fully and seemed normal. What would I be looking for? I didn't feel any binding.

I'll have to ask if they removed it to paint it. I guess one way to know is to see if the under-side of the brackets that hold the struts to the hood is also painted. I think it is. I think the paint evidence they didn't clean from the strut rods could be just from painting those brackets, on or off the hood I am not sure yet. Painting the under-side of the hood was a bonus I didn't expect, the focus was the outside of the car and it really is a good paint job, despite what something like the paint on the strut may suggest about the work. I was particularly pushing to have as little orange peel texture as possible, and they did pretty darn good, the texture is not detectable on most surfaces.

Your hood does not look bent. It doesn't even look like the shop removed the hood to paint it. Let's not jump to conclusions and play the blame game.

Seems to me you just need to have them line up the driver side by loosening the bolts on the hinges and lining it up correctly.

If after the realignment, you still have issues closing your hood, you will need another hood hinge.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Fox W. (see edit history)

[Fox W.]

It is possible and I may never know. Though I can remove a bracket from the hood and if I find it is not re-painted under it then that at least shows no evidence that they removed them from the hood ever. I just want it to look right and get past this.

Again painting the under-side of the hood was a random bonus they decided to do because all the stickers were under the trunk lid, and the under-hood paint looked pretty worn. It doesn't have the same effort as the rest of the car. While part of me wishes those brackets and bolts were black still like they should be, it is possible that they didn't want to remove it for fear of messing up the hood alignment.

Fox,

My guess right now is that when they installed the hood, they screwed-up. Big-Time. First, they bent it, (exactly how will never be known) then re-assembled it. The pics serve to confirm that all the hardware is installed correctly. They bent your hood and no one there is going to own up to it for fear of deportation. And, no one there is going to tell on the other for fear of being "shanked". That's my cold hard opinion and I'm sticking to it.

John F.

Another idea for making a mold form. Find a material that would act as a mold release and protective covering. Lay it along the good side of the hook or another known good hood. Say a good one from a salvage yard. (Don't have to remove the hood from the car. Do it right there in the yard.) Lay some form of stiffeners such as coat hangers or wooden dowels old fishing rods or whatever. Spray a bead or two of that "Great Stuff" expanding foam insulation along the top of the protective sheet. When the foam sets, you will have a form that has the correct camber to compare sides.

John F.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Fox W. (see edit history)

[Fox W.]

They confirmed that they did not remove those brackets from the hood. What they did was unbolt the hood hinges from the frame on both sides so they could remove the fenders. The reason was because I had them weld some metal behind the bottom of the fenders to fix rust damage there on the rocker-panels. (Also my fender on the driver-side was cracked beyond easy repair and it was better to replace it with the one Jim got me.)

Looking at it though I cannot see evidence that the hinge is higher/spaced wrong. They have the car back plus the spare hinge and are going to focus on what can be done.

Now the really odd thing is the 'overbite' because if you look at it, the only possible way to improve it would be to move the entire hood back toward the windshield, which would increase the gap between the rear of the headlights and hood to an unreasonable amount I think.. maybe.. If the filler panel and turn singles came forward then the lower front skirt and the fenders would have to as well, in order to all line up. Pictures below help show what I mean, I boxed in what would not line up if just the filler panel moved forward.

I should have mentioned before that the front-left corner had been hit at some point before I bought this car. The damage caused the bumper to crack and a couple metal parts that held things like the fender and bumper and turn signal assembly to be bent, broken or missing. However the crumple zones/frame are not damaged and it doesn't look like it was a bad hit. Still it is important to consider that and it may always be a bit off, and it may be hard to ever make it perfect.

I'd like the hood to at least be more flush with the fender, beyond that I may just have to consider it personality.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Fox W. (see edit history)

[Guest Corvanti]

ok, one more thought after reading the entire thread again...

on post #6, pic#1 - driver's side: the corner of the hood appears to be closer to the windshield than the corner of the d.s. fender.

pic #7 - passenger side: the corner of the hood appears to be farther away from the windshield than the fender.

i had to replace a hood on one of the ex-Mrs. Corvanti son's '99 Firebird 2 years ago. all the hinge attachments had some "play" in them for such adjustments. since i've forgotten most of the geometry/trig i learned years ago, it took a hour or two to get the correct adjustment.

perhaps thinking in 3 dimensions - up, down, right & left - and the affect the adjustment of the hinge(s) bolts on the hood/body may cause the two problems you are having...

that's all i have! leaving any " slightly bent" hinge, etc. off the table...

[Fox W.]

It is possible, I hope the body shop figures it out now as that is their only focus. It is possible the hood is 'torquing' a bit when closing, we'll see.

[Fox W.]

The shop fixed the issue, and says it was the hinge. Just replacing the hinge made it sit flat with the fender again. I haven't seen it yet but that sounds like good news to me.

[Fox W.]

Trying to post the pictures that show the fixed result but the uploaders are not working for me no matter which browser I try.

[Fox W.]

There we go. A couple pictures that show it after the replacement good hinge was put on, hood lays completely flat and even now.

[Machiner 55]

Fox,

So, what exactly was wrong with the original hinges?

John F.

[Fox W.]

The original right-side is fine, the original left-side was binding and not fully collapsing. The new hinge behaves very differently, it drops and collapses the hood very tightly down. Once down, if you try to wiggle it up/down at that corner there is zero play. My right-side has a tiny bit of play. I still admit that I am not sure why or what exactly happens to the hinges that can make them do this. It happened to others that I have talked to as well. In my case my only guess is the paint itself on the original hinges caused the issue with one of them.