Guest jtotheb Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Hi Guys,wonder if you could help just had my 68 wildcat engine rebuilt just picked it up from the garage and it has a rattle sound when you rev it up dies down on tick over checked the oil and theres fuel in the oil and its very thin, a couple of questions is the rattle the hydraulic lifters because of the thin oil or something else also whats causing the fuel to enter the oil, any help would be much apprieciated thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Fuel can only enter through the carburetor due to float levels too high, or the fuel pump where it connects to the engine due to a bad diaphragm in the pump.Can you post a sound byte or video of the rattle? Rattles usually indicate rod bearings. A "tick" usually indicates lifters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Have you discussed the problems with the engine builder? Was it a turn key job where they also did the engine installation and test runs? The first thing definitely is to correct the fuel leakage. Don't run it like it is. Call the shop who did the work and tell them to come and get it. Those issue(s) are unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtotheb Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Have you discussed the problems with the engine builder? Was it a turn key job where they also did the engine installation and test runs? The first thing definitely is to correct the fuel leakage. Don't run it like it is. Call the shop who did the work and tell them to come and get it. Those issue(s) are unacceptable.It wasnt as turn key rebuild engine was rebuilt without a test bed run it was fitted by another garage who fitted the carb etc and got it running called the engine builder and hes coming to look at it tomorrow hopefully no damage has been done he wants to hear it running to evaluate the noise is it worth changing the oil before this as I worried running it will cause damage what do you Guys think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackofalltrades70 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Leave the oil as is until he sees/hears the engine. Tell him that the oil is like it is before so he can pull the dipstick and check himself. I would have oil/filter on hand to change it anyways. I guess that the carb could also be too big for the engine, but I am supposing that you are working with original carb. Sounds as if you might need to find a "third opinion" mechanic to look the job over, considering you paid money to have these jobs done. Someone has some fixin' to do. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtotheb Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Leave the oil as is until he sees/hears the engine. Tell him that the oil is like it is before so he can pull the dipstick and check himself. I would have oil/filter on hand to change it anyways. I guess that the carb could also be too big for the engine, but I am supposing that you are working with original carb. Sounds as if you might need to find a "third opinion" mechanic to look the job over, considering you paid money to have these jobs done. Someone has some fixin' to do. MattLatest news Guys is I had the engine builder over, engine running, when you start it from cold its not so pronounced but as it warms up it becomes more noticable and at around 1500 rpm it's at its loudest, its a real rattle its coming from the left side rear of the engine, hes coming back next week with a stethoscope ot pinpoint the sound but to be honest I think we both feel its going to be engine out again, quick question does anybody know if its possible to remove the oil pan from a Wildcat with the engine in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 I have had the pan off my '64 Riviera without removing it. The hard part is the four oil pan bolts above the crossmember. I couldn't get sainted for my patience with the 1/4 drive wrenches, but we do have a new Pope.Here's advice the rebuilder will agree with: "When in doubt, pull it out."Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigDogDaddy Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Isn't gas in the oil an indicator of a problem with the piston rings ? Maybe the rebuilder did not use the correct rings or they are not seated properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 The first place to look is at the fuel pump. The diaphrams do not last with this corn-aholic gas we now have. 9 times out of 10 that will be the culpret. Sad, and expensive, if the old pump was re-installed on a fresh motor that had the problem previously. Should have had a new pump with the rebuild. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I agree that a likely culprit is a defective fuel pump diaphragm, especially with ethanol fuel. The pump, even if a rebuilt, may have been old stock, or rebuilt years ago with the old-style diaphragm.They simply do not last with the "new" fuel. I had this problem a few years back with another car (not my own) helping a friend. The gas will thin-out the oil, reduce the oil's cushioning effect on bearings, and cause hammering. Enough fuel in the oil, and it COULD EXPLODE -- did happen to me once _ years ago !!Another thought, is the ignition timing too far advanced (either static, and/or Vacuum)?? So when you rev it, you may be hearing Pre-Ignition / Spark Rap?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigDogDaddy Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 This is a fresh rebuild and most likely very few miles. So I don't think the modern fuel has had any time to deteriorate anything. Sounds like either a mistake was made during the rebuild, or something is defective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrlforfun Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 OK Big Dog: Diagnose, diagnose, diagnose. Isolate each problem and absolutely identify the reason for each component's failure. You can't fix it until you have discovered the actual failure and WHY the component failed. Lady Luck diagnoses really need to be a thing of the past. For example, you have mentioned fuel in the crankcase. Where is it coming from? How do you know where it's coming from? If you have isolated the faulty part, how do you know what component of that particular part failed and why did it fail? It's not what you want to hear but that's the way to fix it. Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Fuel Pump?? A few years ago I was out and saw a trickle of gas externally from my Chevy's fuel pump, so I went to a name-brand auto parts store and bought a new one.... and had it installed right then and there. We drove home 25 miles, and by the time we got home, the crankcase was at least 4 quarts overfilled, and the "oil" was clear as could be. By then it was almost half oil and half gas !!The new fuel pump had a defective diaphragm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 ....and nothing good ever comes from a defective diaphragm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 ....and nothing good ever comes from a defective diaphragm.Absolutly not! Communist built second or third class parts at you service. But you can no longer buy American because it is not made here anymore. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtotheb Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Update Guys, engine builder came over with stethoscope pinpointed the sound coming from the rear of the sump taking the sump off on Sunday I've removed the exhaust and I need to disconnect the steering rod to allow the sump to come off without taking the engine out the builder thinks its the sump baffle hitting the con rod he did say it was bent and he did straighten it other than that it may also be the re profiled con rod if its been machined wrongly we'll know on Sunday I'll keep you guys informed of the findings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Update Guys, engine builder came over with stethoscope pinpointed the sound coming from the rear of the sump taking the sump off on Sunday I've removed the exhaust and I need to disconnect the steering rod to allow the sump to come off without taking the engine out the builder thinks its the sump baffle hitting the con rod he did say it was bent and he did straighten it other than that it may also be the re profiled con rod if its been machined wrongly we'll know on Sunday I'll keep you guys informed of the findingsThanks for the updates. Removing the oil pan with engine in car is no easy task. Before I did anything I would get a commitment from the builder to cover all materials and your labor costs for the investigative work. Curious, why was a "reprofiled" connecting rod used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Because it is a rod that spun a bearing at one time and has been reconditioned. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtotheb Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Thanks for the updates. Removing the oil pan with engine in car is no easy task. Before I did anything I would get a commitment from the builder to cover all materials and your labor costs for the investigative work. Curious, why was a "reprofiled" connecting rod used?He's agreed to pay any costs incurred, to be honest I think he's embarrassed by whats happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtotheb Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Because it is a rod that spun a bearing at one time and has been reconditioned. Dandy Dave!Exactly right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) The old memory just jogged. In 1979 I put a 350 Buick engine in a 1960 Ford pickup. When I started it I had a lower end knock, but the engine had run perfect in the car when I took it out.I had let the engine sit on the oil pan when it was out and being moved around. since the Ford had a lot of room underneath I started the engine and tapped the sides of the oil pan while it ran. I used a couple of medium sized ball pien hammers and worked the center from front to rear tapping both sides at the same time. That took the slight bulge out of the pan and gave it clearance. The baffle clearance is close on those engines. It worked back then, might be your problem now.Bernie Edited April 3, 2013 by 60FlatTop (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtotheb Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 The old memory just jogged. In 1979 I put a 350 Buick engine in a 1960 Ford pickup. When I started it I had a lower end knock, but the engine had run perfect in the car when I took it out.I had let the engine sit on the oil pan when it was out and being moved around. since the Ford had a lot of room underneath I started the engine and tapped the sides of the oil pan while it ran. I used a couple of medium sized ball pien hammers and worked the center from front to rear tapping both sides at the same time. That took the slight bulge out of the pan and gave it clearance. The baffle clearance is close on those engines. It worked back then, might be your problem now.BernieI'm hoping this is the problem fingers crossed I'll keep you updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtotheb Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Hi Guys thought I would update you with some good news took the oil pan off and found the conrod hitting the baffle which is bolted to the block there was a grove in it were it had been hitting ground off this area around 8mm checked the conrod put it all back together and no noise!!! really pleased engine sounds as it should cant wait to take it for a drive just need to rebuild the steering linkage had to dismantle it to remove the oil pan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtotheb Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Also I need to fit a new fuel pump diaphragm split Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Also I need to fit a new fuel pump diaphragm split As I suspected. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Here is a place you can probably get one: Northwestern Auto Supply, Antique Auto Parts, Old Car and Truck Parts For Sale, Engine Parts, Grand Rapids, MichiganLenny is the guy to get. Radio announcer voice and a real good attitude.Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtotheb Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Here is a place you can probably get one: Northwestern Auto Supply, Antique Auto Parts, Old Car and Truck Parts For Sale, Engine Parts, Grand Rapids, MichiganLenny is the guy to get. Radio announcer voice and a real good attitude.BernieThanks for the tip just a quick question anything special I should know about replacing the pump or is it straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Straightforward???, NO, you have to bend over a tad to remove/replace.JUST A LITTLE HUMOR.I wish you well, seems like you have it under control.Dale in Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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