Tranny problem getting worse, buy a replacement tranny (if possible) get mine rebuilt, or...

[Guest Richard D]

I just had my tranny fluid, filter, pan gasket replaced trying to correct a 2 to 3 shift. Sometimes it shudders until you lift off for a second and now sometimes it goes to neutral in between the 2-3 shift, letting off will let it shift into third. Car has almost 147,000 miles. Should I have the tranny replaced with a "crate" tranny if there is such a thing, or should I find a shop to repair/rebuild mine or buy a rebuilt and send mine in for a core. I have read horror stories about installing rebuilt trannys (Jasper) I thought about a used one from one of our vendors but you don't know what you are getting and I would guess that labor is the big part of the bill if the replacement fails in a few months. All sugestions welcomed.

Thank's

Richard

[Barney Eaton]

With your mileage, what else does the car need? You may have a third option, find a lower mileage Reatta may be about the same price as a rebuild. Unless you have a strong sentimental attraction to your car, it would be easy to find one with half the mileage. Now is a great time to buy a Reatta, there are some great bargins.

If you choice is to keep the car, what is the price difference? First you must find a shop(s) that you trust. I would think you could get a used transmission for no more than $500. There are lots out there that will fit your car. If you go rebuilt (either yours rebuilt or a off the shelf rebuild) it sounds like you are in the $2500 range. For $2500 plus what you can get out of your car you would be close to buying one with half the mileage.

One thing to ask about when you rebuild or buy a used transmission. (and I don't know the answer) what is the final drive ratio and if it is not the same as your 2.97, can yours be put in the new/used transmission?

As an example in 1990, the Product Manual shows the following final drive number, just in Buicks that used the 3800 engine and transmission.

Regal w/3800 = 3.06, LeSabre = 2.84 with GT package = 2.97, Park Ave, same as LeSabre, Riviera = 2.97

In 1991 a Reatta had a 3.33 final drive but that was the new electronic transmission...and you would think the taller gears would make them faster but I have had both and the '91 does not seem to be quicker than other Reattas.

[charlie1]

I had a very bad experience with Jasper transmissions (5) If you can find a experienced rebuilder that is what I would recommend. Plan on spending between $2 and $3 thouand dollars for a first class job. The old timer who rebuilt mine use to own a AAMCO franchise but recently retired. I purchased the Lifetime warranty. Last time I went over for the yearly check up (as required for the warranty) I was told they do not rebuild in house anymore But remove from car and send out.

Good Luck

[DAVES89]

Richard in the words of my neighbor who owns a transmission shop, "Drive it like you stole it". I sometimes have that problem but what I do is put the car in gear and let it sit for a bit and then as I drive away I accelerate a bit more briskly. It shifts through all the gears with no problem. It seems, at least in my case, the first shifts of the mornings is when I have the problem you describe.

I have had this happen since I bought the car about 4 years ago and has not gotten worse. My brother even lined me up with his dealerships transmission mechanic to do it as a "moon light" deal but as the situation hasn't changed I canceled the repair and have continued driving it.

Edited February 3, 2013 by DAVES89 (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

I just had my tranny fluid, filter, pan gasket replaced trying to correct a 2 to 3 shift. Sometimes it shudders until you lift off for a second and now sometimes it goes to neutral in between the 2-3 shift, letting off will let it shift into third. Car has almost 147,000 miles. Should I have the tranny replaced with a "crate" tranny if there is such a thing, or should I find a shop to repair/rebuild mine or buy a rebuilt and send mine in for a core. I have read horror stories about installing rebuilt trannys (Jasper) I thought about a used one from one of our vendors but you don't know what you are getting and I would guess that labor is the big part of the bill if the replacement fails in a few months. All sugestions welcomed.

Thank's

Richard

Could you give more details about the shutter you feel. You say it as taking place when the car goes into 3rd gear. If it is happening under light load when it shifts into third the torque converter could be trying to lock at about the same time. You could be feeling a fairly common problem known as "torque converter shutter". It happens because there is a problem with the lockup clutch inside the torque converter. The torque converter is external to the main transmission case. It slides into the front pump of the transmission and bolts to the flywheel. If you can determine for certain the shutter is caused by the torque converter it can sometimes be cured by transmission additives or in the worst case by replacing the torque converter. Replacing the torque converter requires the transmission to be removed but the cost is nowhere near the cost of a full transmission rebuild. A torque converter problem wouldn't explain the transmission going into neutral between shifts.

As others have said, finding a reliable transmission rebuilder in your area is key to getting the transmission evaluated and fixed correctly. One of the small shops that have been in business for a long time are your best bet. I recommend staying away from the large chain stores that do transmissions. Most of those mechanics are working on a commission and it is to their advantage to find everything wrong that they can. Means more money in their pockets.

Hope this helps.

[KDirk]

I'll just add here that rebuilt transmissions (done by an outfit like Jasper) seem to be done on a quantity vs. quality basis. I have heard so many horror stories about rebuilt trannys, that I would never consider one unless I could find an independent tech who can do it and can make me comfortable that the results would be decent. Years ago when we had our own plumbing company we used all GMC 3/4 and one ton vans. Did a number of rebuilt transmissions from Jasper, and even then (early to mid 1980's) had problems with their rebuilt units. I remember my dad cursing one that died (wouldn't go into gear) after fewer than 200 miles from install. Of course, the GM transmissions in question had plastic parts (!) inside so this accounted for part of the problem. Ultimately turned our fleet into Ford E-series vans we had so many problems.

GM used to sell factory rebuilt crate transmissions, but don't think the 4T60 (4T440) is offered this way anymore. Which is a shame, because apparently these were reliable units.

KDirk

[charlie1]

The best rebuilt trans I ever had was a GM serta rebuilt. Just like new! They may still have it for a 1990 but they did not have it for my 1989 Riviera.

[Guest Richard D]

Thank You all, As Daves89 said, my car is worse on the first drive in the morning. We have had a cool snap here for the last week or so, gets down to around 55 degrees overnight. It is more problematic on those days until it warms up. Ronnie my torque converter will not lock up until engine is warm and speed is 49/50 MPH. It then locks up and RPM drops from about 3,000 to 2,300/2,500. The shudder happens at light throttle at about 30/35 MPH. I have driven this car very gently since I bought it in early 2009. Since I have the 71 Skylark vert I only drive this car about 3 to 4,000 miles a year. I change engine oil every 6 months (Dino 10W30) I figure that with 147,000 miles this tranny does not owe me anything, I might drive it like I stole it a little once everything is at operating temprature. I will keep an eye open for a local Reatta for sale, however this one has a new A/C compressor and related A/C parts and the paint is very good as is the interior. If I could find a white/flame red for $3-4,000 all bets are off.

Thanx Again,

Richard

PS. car is dry under the body, no leaks of any kind.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Richard D (see edit history)

[Guest Richard D]

Barney, Thank you for the final drive information. This would be the first FWD transmission I have had replaced and with RWD the final drive is in the rear axle differential, i think.

[2reattas]

I cooked my tranny when I was stuck in my driveway in the snow, when it was cold it didn't shift right until it was warm, tried some transx worked for a while, prob seals internally. Worked fine for and then same systems of not shifting just my 2cents

[Guest crazytrain2]

2reattas,

I have a 440T4 out of an 89 Buick Electra Park Ave Ultra that I replaced because it too had started to develop a slip between 2nd & 3rd, other than that it was solid. It's been sitting covered up in my garage for 4 or 5 years now just in case my replacement ever started acting up. When I initially looked into having it rebuilt the shops were mostly concerned aabout my car taking up one of their bays even though I tried to explain I was in no hurry at the time and that they could work on it at their leisure ( I hoped to cut my cost) I truly don't think it needs much done to it and I'd be willing to let it go for a song (scrap price is probably $50) Probably 6 of one and half dozen of the other, but a shop might cut you a deal if they can work on it as time permits without tying up a bay. I'm in Northen IN and could possibly deliver it myself as well. Just trying to think out of the box, and figure better than taking it to a scrap dealer.

mark

By the way the one I got a guy rebuilt for me and it's been rock solid, think he's retired now though.

[harry yarnell]

Try a can of Seafoam Transtune. I'm not one to usually recommend these 'fixes'in a can, but its worked for me in two seperate transmissions with similar issues.

[2seater]

I don't remember seeing the year, but it sounds like a '90 or earlier. If that is the case, 50 mph in 4th gear and TCC locked, should be about 1000 rpm lower, like 1400-1500 rpm? On my '90, 2000 rpm is 72 mph locked up, 2500 is 90 mph. You can watch the indicators to see what gear and/or lockup the ECM thinks is happening.

[charlie1]

My 89 Riviera had a 2.84 which is what I wanted to be sure and put back in the car. Their is a tag on the transmission where you can get this information or a transmission person can count the teeth on a gear inside the transmission.

[Guest Richard D]

I don't remember seeing the year, but it sounds like a '90 or earlier. If that is the case, 50 mph in 4th gear and TCC locked, should be about 1000 rpm lower, like 1400-1500 rpm? On my '90, 2000 rpm is 72 mph locked up, 2500 is 90 mph. You can watch the indicators to see what gear and/or lockup the ECM thinks is happening.

You are correct, it is around 2,000 at 50 MPH then when locked up it drops to 1,400. My brain is turning into oatmeal.

2Reattas Mark, Thank You for your offer, however I am in Miami which is quite a distance from you. I will check with a transmission shop a friend recommends (he has 8 cars from a Ford Skyliner to a 66 Mustang all fully optioned) and see if they will charge less by not tying up a lift.

CHEERS!

Richard

[johnemac]

You might look at "Dr Tranny" friction modifier products. They list a torque converter lockup anti-shudder additive, and the reviews listed on Amazon were positive and the product inexpensive. I do not endorse the product as I have never used it, I am just passing along options.

[waltmail]

Have you tried Type F fluid?

[Guest Richard D]

I have not tried type F fluid. Back when the cars had the engines and transmissions pointing in the right direction using type F in a GM car would cause failure, or so I was told.

I did take it out today and after about 15 miles I went to where the housing for Homestead air base was until hurricane Andrew. The roads are still there so I ran it hard. I did not just jam my foot to the floor from a stop but once rolling I would then floor it. It did begin to shift better!

After about 4 or 5 runs it was shifting solid at the red line. As soon as it would shift into fourth I had to let off due to road length. At normal stop and go driving home it never shuddered, if I did not do it I would not have believed it. I am going to Seafoam it and see how long it lasts.

ONCE AGAIN THIS AND RONNIE'S SITE ARE THE REASON I STILL DRIVE A REATTA!

Many Thanks.

Richard.

[Ronnie]

Richard I'm glad you find my ROJ website useful. I will be adding more tutorials in the next few days. I will have some extra time now that I've completed my update to The Reatta Store .

Should I add "Drive it like you stole it." to the list of tutorials for transmissions?

[Guest Corvanti]

probably a silly question, but did you check the tranny fluid level AFTER you had the work done? there are many "nooks & crannies" that the fluid won't get to until after a good, long, warm up drive. check it warm, per the manual, etc.

if it's full, then i agree with Ronnie that Seafoam would be the next step. i don't know if i'd go with Type F fluid as the only fluid, but it will mix with Dextron or Dex/Merc fluid. check the search feature here for the info i looked at before i changed my tranny fluid, or the ROJ forum for my trials and tribulations when i changed my fluid & filter (no flush) here: Buick Reatta Forums :: Topic: Transmission Fluid & Filter (1/2) - Reatta Owners Journal

[DAVES89]

Most of us drive our cars too easy. They should be "driven" but not beat.

If you add the seafoam be sure that what you add does not overfill the transmission. I also believe it is Jon [63viking] that has put Type F fluid in his car. He has added a supercharger to his car and then had to rebuild the tranny. From what I remember he has had no problems with using the "F" fluid.

[Ronnie]

My experience with Type F fluid is it will cause the transmission to shift harder. I'm not certain how but I would guess it has properties that make the clutch packs slip less as they engage. Some people who are use to the plush "Buick ride" might find it a bit harsh. I would try Sea Foam Trans Tune Additive before adding the type F fluid myself.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Richard, Glad you didn't get popped for illegal street racing. :cool:

[waltmail]

Dexron and Mercron, etc were brought to the table to get soft shifts after complaints from some drivers to their service techs that the cars shifted too harshly (marketing). Slippery shifts cause heat and premature wear. Type F does not possess the slickness of the other fluids. It will shift harder. It is a choice.

[Guest Richard D]

Richard, Glad you didn't get popped for illegal street racing. :cool:

That is why I went to the Homestead Air Force Base. Since all the housing is gone and the base is fenced in all I had to worry about were the Air Force police who spend all their time on the active part of the base, runways, hangers and such. Plus I did not let it spin the tires to make noise and smoke to attract attention.

BTW, my mechanic said that there was not a lot of friction material or metal in the bottom of the pan. For the mileage he thought there would be more.

[Guest spongebob]

Richard D, what was the final outcome?

[jonlabree]

Re: Tranny problem getting worse, buy a replacement tranny (if possible) get mine rebuilt, or...

Most of us drive our cars too easy. They should be "driven" but not beat.

If you add the seafoam be sure that what you add does not overfill the transmission. I also believe it is Jon [63viking] that has put Type F fluid in his car. He has added a supercharger to his car and then had to rebuild the tranny. From what I remember he has had no problems with using the "F" fluid.

I did not HAVE to rebuild my transmission after I installed the S/C. I had the transmission "Hardened". All internal parts that could be hardened were. Then I installed type F fluid.

The shifts are a little harder, but not bad. Also you can still adjust the shift with the vacuum control. I put the type F in because I wanted to: 1 Save the transmission, 2 get better shifts.