Rebuilt 401 home today, questions

[RockinRiviDad]

Got my 401 home late today and started to mount my freshly painted AC & PS brackets to find they don't line up??? Machine shop was closed the weekend so now what??

Is this normal for all rebuilt motors?? First time down this road so any help will be greatly appreciated.

David

[Jim Cannon]

Post a picture. I dont see how they cant line up.

[Guest slacker1965]

Got my 401 home late today and started to mount my freshly painted AC & PS brackets to find they don't line up??? Machine shop was closed the weekend so now what??

Is this normal for all rebuilt motors?? First time down this road so any help will be greatly appreciated.

David

nope, not normal....can you tell us more? having trouble getting them over the studs? pictures?

even if they had to deck the block & heads a bunch, I don't think this could change that much.....

good luck keep us posted

[Guest Rob J]

Please post pics, as detailed as possible. While you take the pics, hold the brackets in the manner in which you are trying to install them. Does not make sense, unless something got seriously bent, or you are possibly installing them incorrectly.

[60FlatTop]

Here are a couple:

[60FlatTop]

One more:

[RockinRiviDad]

Ok, I got the power steering bracket on.

I left the mounting bolts loose in order to see if I could nudge things over while trying to fit the AC/alternator bracket. No luck …

You can see the top bolt goes in. But the second one is way off and the bolt hole thru the water pump is so bad that the bracket hides the hole…

I tried to call the builder and of coarse he's closed for the weekend…bummed out…what do u guys think? Should I loosen the water pump and try to nudge it over too? I thought maybe the timing chain cover will give a little too. But I can see the crank shaft is not gonna let it go anywhere lol…help

Thx,

David

[60FlatTop]

Something looks a little different there:

[Don McClair]

David the rear of the alternator bracket bolts down on top of one of the head bolts or, you might have to removed that head bolt and reinstall it through the alternator bracket putting the bracket directly on top of the head. That would explain the bottom mounting hole on the dog bone being off I think. I would check my Riviera but unfortunately it is waiting its turn in the paint booth. That will also require that bolt being re-torqued.

[RivNut]

The head bolts used for mounting have a threaded stud coming out of the top of them. The accessory mounts over the stud once the head bolt w/ stud is in place. That will take into account the thickness of the head of the bolt and move things around considerably. I'll send pictures if that will help.

Ed

[RockinRiviDad]

Thx guys but I do have all head bolts in and torqued down. I do have the studs coming out of the head bolts for the accessory/bracket in place. Still doesn't seem to make things line up???

[Guest Rob J]

David, it's hard to tell from your second pic, but it looks to me that you have the bracket cocked, because something at the bottom is obstructing it, thus not letting it sit correctly. I find it highly doubtful that something is incorrect with your head, block, or water manifold. Anyway you can shoot a video to show us all around the area of the bracket? Something seems not installed correctly.

[RockinRiviDad]

David the rear of the alternator bracket bolts down on top of one of the head bolts or, you might have to removed that head bolt and reinstall it through the alternator bracket putting the bracket directly on top of the head. That would explain the bottom mounting hole on the dog bone being off I think. I would check my Riviera but unfortunately it is waiting its turn in the paint booth. That will also require that bolt being re-torqued.

Thank you Don. You were right. I took the head bolt out from behind the AC bracket and sat the bracket directly on the head. Whah-lah that did it.

RivNut, I thought the same as you. That the stud on top of the head bolt is what the bracket went over. Guess not, unless someone can look at their bracket & tell me different. Now that it seems right, does it still need the studded head bolt there? Or does the studded head bolt go elsewhere? I have a total of 5

The fellas,

David

[RockinRiviDad]

David, it looks to me that you have the bracket cocked, because something at the bottom is obstructing it, thus not letting it sit correctly.

Your description makes sense. All the seems to make it cocked is the head bolt when I slip it over the head bolt stud. Now that I pulled that said head bolt out and sit the bracket right on the head (as Don suggested) it all aligns right. Is your set up like this or is yours over the head bolt stud??

[Guest Rob J]

For that particular bracket, it bolts directly on the head utilizing the head bolt only, and not a stud. Here's a pic of my original unmolested 401 when I pulled it out. You can see the loose head bolt that I had to undo to remove the bracket. That's your issue, and what I suspected. You can also see where the stud type head bolts go on that side of the engine. Let me know if you need a pic of the drivers side of the motor to see where the stud bolts go.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Rob J (see edit history)

[alini]

I went through my pics and Mine sat on top of the head bolt, with the stud holding the bracket. Its in the right hand side of the pic. As long as you got it to line up I dont think it will matter one way or the other, to make it work.

Edited January 12, 2013 by alini (see edit history)

[Guest Rob J]

Sorry Chris, but in the pic you posted, the far right head bolt is not visible. ON AC equipped cars, that second from the front head bolt is a stud, and that's where the upper AC compressor bracket mounts to.

Here is a clearer pic before I removed the brackets. I should of posted this pic first.

There is also a bottom little bracket that connect to the Alternator bracket. It in turn then bolts on to one of the engine mount bolts. You can barely see it there right below the Alt. bracket.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Rob J (see edit history)

[alini]

I went back through the pics your correct. that pic is a great shot.

[RockinRiviDad]

Since we are talking about brackets. Does anyone have or know were to find the rear AC bracket that goes over the taller aluminum GS style finned valve covers?

I would like purchase one.

[RivNut]

Unless the person who cannibalizes the 2x4 setup from the original car realizes it's necessary to clear the valve covers and removes it, you have a really difficult time finding an original. Clarks Corvair sells a repo that takes some tweaking to make it work, and it doesn't look factory, but that is an option.

Ed

[Guest Rob J]

David, I'm still trying to find an upper AC bracket for my GS. When I originally bought my GS, the PO had removed the compressor years ago, and according to him, lost the bracket. So, if you find an extra one, let me know. I'll start the restoration on the GS in most likely a couple of years, so I'm just keeping my eye out in the meantime.

BTW Ed, last I heard, Clark's no longer makes that bracket.

[RivNut]

I hadn't heard that; I'm just going on what's in their catalog.

Ed

[RockinRiviDad]

David, I'm still trying to find an upper AC bracket for my GS. When I originally bought my GS, the PO had removed the compressor years ago, and according to him, lost the bracket. So, if you find an extra one, let me know. I'll start the restoration on the GS in most likely a couple of years, so I'm just keeping my eye out in the meantime.

BTW Ed, last I heard, Clark's no longer makes that bracket.

Yes sir, I will let you know. A bud of mine at work has offered to mod my bracket to fit with a plasma cutter.

What is a ballpark average cost to put the AC back to working order? I have all OE components. Depending on that cost, it may take me a while to put the AC back together. Is it true that I might have ruined my compressor & condenser by leaving all tubing disconnected & unsealed from moisture for 13 years?

[RockinRiviDad]

There is also a bottom little bracket that connect to the Alternator bracket. It in turn then bolts on to one of the engine mount bolts. You can barely see it there right below the Alt. bracket.

Yeah, great shots. Thank you

I don't think I have that lower smaller bracket that you mentioned. Is that on all '65 Riv Nailheads?? Do I need it?

[JZRIV]

Yes sir, I will let you know. A bud of mine at work has offered to mod my bracket to fit with a plasma cutter.

What is a ballpark average cost to put the AC back to working order? I have all OE components. Depending on that cost, it may take me a while to put the AC back together. Is it true that I might have ruined my compressor & condenser by leaving all tubing disconnected & unsealed from moisture for 13 years?

If the system was let opened you have a large project. Parts are not ruined totally but can't be used as-is. A/C systems are very sensitive to contamination. If it was me I would send all components including the evaporator and condenser to Classic Auto Air in Tampa FL for testing and restoration. When it comes to rebuilding A/C from an open system that has not operated in years you just shouldn't assume anything and start from scratch. This method will get you a system that will function for many years. You're looking at $1000 to start and thats just to have your original parts tested and rebuilt if needed. As far as I know Classic Auto Air is the only true rebuilder in the states who will do a compressor properly. They can also refurb POA valves and restore original receiver/dryers for those who want to maintain that authentic look. Anything you buy over the counter as far as a compressor will be a reman from China which have very subjective quality. Also if you rebuild stick with R12.

Edited January 13, 2013 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[Don McClair]

A short while back someone else was looking for the compressor bracket that went over the taller aluminum valve covers and I suggested Clarks Corvair parts but they later posted that Clarks is no longer supplying that product.

[RivNut]

I imagine it is needed. Buick put it there for a reason. These big A6 compressors need lots of support; hence the mount for the back as well as the front.

Check with one of the aftermarket a/c companies about retrofitting some parts onto your original A/C system. Old Air Products, Classic Auto Air, and Vintage Air are the ones that come to mind. They have the parts to make your old unit work like a more modern unit. I'm not the expert so I'd suggest giving one of them a call to discuss your problem.

Ed

[Guest Rob J]

What Jason said. Classic Air in Tampa is the best option. But, forget 1k. If you send them every single AC part (which is what you should do) your going to be in the 2k range to have them properly restore the entire system. But, IMO and as Jason said, it is the only option if you want a system done correctly, that will actually operate correctly.

[1965rivgs]

The ac/alt front bracket is captured by the front head bolt-that is factory correct. Probably too late as your rebuilder has already assembled and torqued your heads, but a comparison of length will probably reveal a "long" headbolt...or is that for the non-AC mounting bracket???...cant recall as it has been awhile...Studded bolts should be installed at both right and left rear corners and accept the engine to body ground straps.

Exposure to moisture will encourage corrosion in any AC components left open to the atmosphere. Alot depends on how much moisture and dust/dirt, etc...for the condensor and evaporator any radiator shop should be able to flush these and leak check them-no need to ship cross-country. The components most affected by moisture and corrosion are the valves in the system, namely the expansion valve and the STV. New expansion valves should be available at a reasonable cost and the STV valve can be rebuilt very reasonably, or eliminated with a clutch cycling thermostatic switch. I frequently see and purchase the diaphram assembly for the STV for $25 to $50 on Ebay. Keep in mind they will usually be marketed as Cadillac or Oldsmobile applications. Dont be concerned about the compressor as they are relatively bulletproof depending on their condition before the system was idled. You may want to check for a build-up of refrigerant oil at the front seal from previous operation (or look for evidence of oil slinging on nearby components like the hood bottom or inner fenderwells) which would indicate the need for seal replacement. I would flush and leak check the condensor/evap, install a new expansion valve and rebuilt STV valve, replace all orings along the way, pull a vacuum on the system as a preliminary system leak check and fill it with gas and have at it. Any AC system, even when completely rebuilt/replaced will most likely develop leaks small or large at the o-rings, lines, connections or components. An AC systems in any older car, and sometimes in new cars, is almost always a piecemeal and ongoing labor of love which will need annual attention....but it`s coool !! Good luck!

Tom Mooney

PS Forgot..always change the drier if the system has been open!

Edited January 14, 2013 by 1965rivgs (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

I'm from the wilds of western New York. My '64 was missing the A/C compressor when I bought it in 1978. I was 30 at the time with two primary thoughts. 1.) That car was made to be driven with the windows down. 2.) Was A/C really needed for the three hot days? Lucky to be me.

If I decided to make the A/C operational so my wife could squeeze a few more bucks out of it at the estate sale I would put on the old GM axial 6 compressor I saved off one of the Caddies around 20 years ago. I would replace the filter/drier that has been exposed to atmosphere. You used to be able to flush with some cheap R-12 or 22. Since that is expensive and irresponsible now I wouldn't worry about much more than a spider body in the rest of the system and the expansion valve screen will pick that up.

I would get a set of used original hoses. Used ones with a refrigerant oil coating inside are fine for 134A, NOS will leak molecularly, and triple wall wouldn't look right. The conversion to 134A would de-rate it by about 15% but, even with global warming, its still New York. Should be fine.

Bernie

[Guest Rob J]

but, even with global warming, its still New York. Should be fine.

Bernie

Global warming is a myth Bernie. Didn't you get the memo?:cool:

[Guest rsmalling]

Sorry Chris, but in the pic you posted, the far right head bolt is not visible. ON AC equipped cars, that second from the front head bolt is a stud, and that's where the upper AC compressor bracket mounts to.

Here is a clearer pic before I removed the brackets. I should of posted this pic first.

There is also a bottom little bracket that connect to the Alternator bracket. It in turn then bolts on to one of the engine mount bolts. You can barely see it there right below the Alt. bracket.

That front head bolt as Tom said is about 1/4 longer that the rest of the head bolts. so it need to go in that position.

[Guest kaycee]

Hi David,

I was able to check out the yard this past Saturday, and the '65 was stripped of all the parts you needed on your e-mail to me. Sorry, too bad you don't need some '63 or'64 parts.

kaycee

[RockinRiviDad]

Hi David,

I was able to check out the yard this past Saturday, and the '65 was stripped of all the parts you needed on your e-mail to me. Sorry, too bad you don't need some '63 or'64 parts.

kaycee

That's just my luck. But I appreciate all your help, thank you very much

David

'65 Riviera, Deluxe, A/C

[RockinRiviDad]

If the system was let opened you have a large project. Parts are not ruined totally but can't be used as-is. A/C systems are very sensitive to contamination. If it was me I would send all components including the evaporator and condenser to Classic Auto Air in Tampa FL for testing and restoration. When it comes to rebuilding A/C from an open system that has not operated in years you just shouldn't assume anything and start from scratch. This method will get you a system that will function for many years. You're looking at $1000 to start and thats just to have your original parts tested and rebuilt if needed. As far as I know Classic Auto Air is the only true rebuilder in the states who will do a compressor properly. They can also refurb POA valves and restore original receiver/dryers for those who want to maintain that authentic look. Anything you buy over the counter as far as a compressor will be a reman from China which have very subjective quality. Also if you rebuild stick with R12.

Holy smokes! That's a lot of money. I'm not one to worry too much about keeping the authentic look. But that prob won't bring the cost down much at all.

I thank you for sharing your knowledge with me sir.