JP75 Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 This car has been in the family since new, my great uncle bought it new in 1953 and it lived many hard years on a farm. My grandfather bought it from him and drove it many years in the sixty and my dad drove it for a while when his car was stolen in the late 60's. Then in the 70's my grandfather decided to restore it and had the engine and transmission rebuild and then it basically sat until the early 90's. When he decided he was never going to do any with it and asked if I wanted it. His only condition was I could not hot rod it. I wish I had taken pictures of it when I got it in the early 90's. Basically the interior was gutted and all the chrome and stainless had been removed and was in the trunk. The white and blue paint was mostly powder and full of cracks. Well I did not have much money or experience with engines so in my great wisdom I removed all the paint. I eventually got it running then parked it while I went into the Marine Corps, got out and finished collage, got married and several years later built a garage and that brings me to last year when I pulled it out of its tomb and brought it home.. My first task was to get the body ready to remove the body from the frame. First was the front floor pans and of course nobody makes reproductions for a US Pontiac. The Canadian Chevy/Pontiac reproductions are a dime a dozen. The Chevy pans are close enough to make them work. I do not have the after photos. but here are the before pics. The back Left door halted progress on the body removal for about 6 months. I found out the car had hit a bus and the left rear quarter was replaced. It appears the body man was a bondo artist I found up to 3/4 inch of bondo in the door jamb and dog leg. The lower door edge overlapped the rocker by quarter inch. I slowly started cutting metal looking for the what was still bent and when I finally cut the rocker loose from the dog leg the rocker sprung out and down a half inch. That fixed the overlap, but the door would still not close properly. When I had the top of the door aligned the bottom was too far in and vice versa with the bottom and the top. What I found out after much searching was the body man bent the door in at the base of the window frame so the door would fit the rocker that was still pushed in a half inch from the crash. I had to cut out a very shallow dent on the edge of the door to allow the door to be bent back finally fixing this six month problem. For a while I thought I was goingto have to find a new door.Next was the inner and outter rockers were repaced and the body is off finally.
Woodfiddler Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Welcome to the forums JP75. Great car and great story to go with it. Lots of help and fans here, keep the pictures coming. Nice garage you've got, keep up the good work!Chuck
Landman Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Yes, and what is the other car in the background?
JP75 Posted October 24, 2012 Author Posted October 24, 2012 That would be my 1969 MG Midget. I did not know it was possible for one car to break down so much. I have owned it for 19 years and it has been fixed and working on and off for about 10 months. Maybe this winter I am going to put some more attention to it. 1
PONTIAC1953 Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 hi, i can tell in one picture, the steering wheel horn ring has a 1954 pontiac power steering horn button, 1953 is the first year that pontiac had the power steering option, my 53 chieftain custom catalina was ordered new with the power steering option, does your car have power steering ?, early and mid year cars had the eaton rotor pump, late 53's had the vicker's vane pump. i look forward to following your progress, if you have any question, please ask me. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. charlessdv8@yahoo.com
JP75 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Posted October 29, 2012 Hi Charles my car originally came with manual steering, but I was able to acquire a complete early power steering assembly several years ago. It is the early Eaton rotor pump with the Saginaw steering gear. I have taking it apart and it appears to be rebuildable so if it works out it will be one of the few accessories I would like to add. So far the pulley woodruff key slot is the biggest issue. If I cannot locate a replacement pulley I may have a go at repairing it.You said I have a 1954 horn button. This was the one piece I had to source. Other than the "Power Steering" text on it it is exactly like my originally button. What are the differences between a 1953 and a 1954 horn button?
PONTIAC1953 Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 hello jp, contact chip at powersteering.com, his shop is just north of me in springfield, mo. a more honest man you will never find. 53 and 54 pontiacs used the same non-power steering bragging horn button, there are other horn buttons that were color match to the custom series pontiacs, such as my 1953 custom catalina having a laurel green color background behind the indian head, in 1954, the custom colors are coral red, maize yellow, and buloxi beige. i had a nos 54 power steering horn button repainted to laurel green, so my 53 custom catalina could brag about it's power steering also.
JP75 Posted November 1, 2012 Author Posted November 1, 2012 Not much has happened lately just working on getting the Engine and Trans ready to be removed this weekend. I still have to drain the fluids and remove the 30 plus bolts to seperate the engine and transmission. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
PONTIAC1953 Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 i would think that the engine has been rebuilt before, seeing that the engine has been repainted the wrong color, i could be wrong. most regular engine rebuilding shop wouldn't take the extra step to make sure an engine is repainted in the correct factory color. bill hirsh has the correct color engine paint for pontiac straight eights.
JP75 Posted November 2, 2012 Author Posted November 2, 2012 Now this just has me puzzled. There is no way Pontiac could have made a design this bad. Something has to be wrong here. To remove the fan belt the power steering harmonic balancer has to come off or the engine has to be jacked up. I am thining the front motor mount has compressed.Yuck, More rust. This is going to have to be fixed. Does any body know if a Chevy support is the same as a Pontiac?Another sign somebody was taking things apart at one time.
PONTIAC1953 Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 hi, if your front motor mount is missing part of it, that would cause the condition you mention about removing the belts, my 53 with power steering, i had more than enough room to get both belts off the lower pullies. no, chevy would not have the same radiator support, but, pontiac used the same radiator sopport 1949 to 1954, charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.
JP75 Posted November 3, 2012 Author Posted November 3, 2012 Hi Charles I was reading my shop manual about the front motor mount and it says on cars with power steering there are a flat washer on each bolt between the engine support and insulator. When I acquired my steering parts I did not get these washers. If you are able to see your mount can you tell me if you have these washers in place and how thick they are. I am thinking they are rather thick and lift the engine up high enough to change the belts.
PONTIAC1953 Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 hi jp75, i removed my 53's straight eight & hydra-matic back in 1989, the car now has a strato-streak 287 V8 (1955) & hydra-matic. i remember the straight eight front motor mount having a metal wrap around part i don't see on your motor mount. let me do some checking when i get home by this weekend. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.
JP75 Posted November 8, 2012 Author Posted November 8, 2012 Made some good progress and a mess this past weekend. The engine is finally out and it is amazing how much fluid a Hydromatic holds even after it has been drained.I decided to take the engine head off because I was not happy with how far the head bolts screwed into the block with the chain attached. I just knew they would pull out of the block. All of the head bolts came out very easy and other then a little carbon everything looks very good so far. For 47000 miles I would have expected to see some cylinder ridges, but they were smooth as if they had been cut down for a rebuild. I really believe the engine was rebuilt before grandpa parked it. I am thinking about not digging any further into the engine other then cleaning out the oil pan. Does anybody with experience with these engines know of any problem areas that I should check out now while I have it out just to be safe?
Landman Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 I think I would at least check the clearances while it's out in the open.
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 I think I would at least check the clearances while it's out in the open.I agree. Will only take a little time to pull a couple[all?] bearing caps and plastic gauge. And mike the cyls. Ben
JP75 Posted November 19, 2012 Author Posted November 19, 2012 Okay I have a question. I will have pictures soon I was not able to take any tonight. I finally removed the complete front suspension. Very nerve racking removing the coil springs without the body or engine on the frame. My question in is regards to the fixed shock absorber bushing cup in the lower control arm. The right side control arm shock absorber bushing cup is firmly fixed and okay. The left side the shock absorber cup has come loose and it is obvious the whole in the control arm has opened up allowing this cup to come loose. My question is has anybody run in to this situation before and is it worth trying to fix or should I start looking for a replacement control arm? The rest of the arm at first glance appears to be in really good shape. My main concern is if I try to fix it and it is not centered correctly will it make a difference to how the shock functions? I am only talking about 1/16” to 1/8” or less.
PONTIAC1953 Posted December 26, 2012 Posted December 26, 2012 hi jp75, are you making any progress on your 53 pontiac ?, charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.
PONTIAC1953 Posted December 26, 2012 Posted December 26, 2012 i wouldn't think that being off a 1/16th or 1/8th of an inch is going to hurt the shock in any way at all. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.
JP75 Posted December 28, 2012 Author Posted December 28, 2012 Let see it has been about two months and I have managed to completely strip the frame and the timing cannot be worse. I know I am not in the northern states like some of you are but, a non-heated garage is not a fun place to be. I have taken advantage of some of the nicer days and I have been prepping the frame for a nice coat of por15. I have read it is very thick and not easy to apply when cold. I think it is going to be at least another month or two before it will be warm enough to actually apply it. I am in the process of installing insulation in the celling of my garage and if I am able to get done maybe the kerosene heater will be enough to keep the garage worm enough to apply some paint. If not may be in late February I will be able to apply the Por15. There is a nice bend it the bottom of one of the frame rails that still needs to be fixed. Dad swares it came from when his brother ran the car into a ditch nose first and was sitting on the frame He said it was so hung up they had to get a tow truck to pull it out. Nice story but, I still want it straight. Also As you can see in the last picture I have a pile of parts that need some attention. It sucks I may have to wait on finishing the frame but, I think I have a few more projects that I can work on till then.
Woodfiddler Posted December 28, 2012 Posted December 28, 2012 JP - I'm not a frame expert, but since you know the story and those involved, I would leave it be. I can't see how that bend could effect anything. (my 2 cents)Chuck
GARY F Posted December 28, 2012 Posted December 28, 2012 for heat, when i lived in N.J. i used a torpedo heater. run for a wjile til it got to hot, turned off.
PONTIAC1953 Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 hey jp75, check out my 53 pontiac thread in this forum for what i just got off of ebay. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.
r1lark Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 JP75, you are making great progress! Wish my projects would move along as fast as yours We will have to get together, I live in what was always considered Kernersville but got annexed by W-S several years back. One of my buddies lives just about 2 miles away and he is into Kaisers.
JP75 Posted May 15, 2013 Author Posted May 15, 2013 It feels good to be back in the shop. I got tired of waiting for good weather to clean up the frame outside so I built a blasting booth inside. So far the booth is working well most of the media is staying in the booth and I would say I am about 2/3 of the way done. Hopefully later this week I can flip the frame over and blast the other side. My goal is to have this mess cleaned up and can paint it this weekend and can start putting things (dare I say) back together!
JP75 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Posted June 16, 2013 Okay so my timing is of a little bit. It took a little longer than I thought to get the frame painted. I went with the POR15 system and so far I am impressed. The first major part done I can not wait to start on another part. I think I am going to work on the leaf springs and the rear axle next.
JP75 Posted June 25, 2013 Author Posted June 25, 2013 I made some more progress i wish it could go faster but, with the long hours at work and the hunny do list the Pontiac has to wait. I have the left rear spring completely taken apart. The metal gators were a bit of a challenge the metal is not very thick and I was afraid I might mess them up. Once I figured out how they work they came off fairly easy. The ends were packed full of Moore County sand. Old hard grease and sand kind of make a concrete rock that I basically had to beat off the spring at the ends of each gator. I cleaned up all the leafs and they look okay a little bit of rust on the trailing end and some very shallow grooves I will have to sand out but other than that I am very happy with there condition. I do have two questions for the Pontiac enthusiasts. In the 2nd picture there is what looks to be burlap rapped around the spring. Is this burlap? If not what is the fabric and were can I get more? The last picture of the clean springs they look to be painted blue. Is this an illusion or were they really painted blue? I was thinking about painting them black but, when ever I get the chance to be authentic I do try. Okay that was 3 questions.One last thing I do not have a picture of it but, it is the best $7.00 I have ever spent and I want to share. I as watching a You tube video of a guy restoring a 1941 Plymouth (may be a different year) and he showed a crock pot he had filled with Marine Clean and water a 1-1 mix. He was putting dirty greasy parts in it turned it on and walked away for about an hour and when they came out he washed them off with water and they were clean. I had to try this I found an old large crock pot at Goodwill and I have been cleaning parts ever since. I'm sold any time not spent with rags, wire brushes, cleaning chemicals and spending hours cleaning parts is a win for me.
JP75 Posted August 19, 2013 Author Posted August 19, 2013 Hi it has been a while since my last post. Work has been made I have been cleaning and painting brackets for the frame that will never see light again once the body is back one. A lot of work but has to be done. I have completed a task I was dreading I have removed and installed all 6 of the rear spring bushings. It turned out to be fairly easy.The right rear leaf spring is back together and on the frame the left spring is painted and once I have the gaiters cleaned it will be completed and can be put back on the frame. The rear axle is almost back together. I just finished painting the axle housing. The hogs head has a new pinion seal and has been painted orange. It seems a bit strange but when I cleaned all the crud off of it there was a lot of orange paint left. The manual makes mention that this gear ratio is also marked with orange paint so it’s orange. Once the axle is mounted back on the frame I am going to take another shot at pulling out the axle seals. Hopefully with the axle stationary I'll be able to break them loose.The bearings and ring gear are all in great shape. Some of the joys of having a low mileage car. I am still debating the axle bearings only because they are sealed. They seem to be fine from the smooth constant resistance. I think the grease has not hardened but I cannot be sure. I am open to the opinions and experiences of others on this topic.
PONTIAC1953 Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 hi, looks like you're doing a great job on the frame and rearend.
JP75 Posted August 24, 2013 Author Posted August 24, 2013 Ugh!!!!! Working on my last leaf spring and the last spring clamp tab broke off. Not going to be able to install the left spring this week end. I have spent the last hour looking on line for a replacement with no luck. Lots of replacements but, nothen like the original. Does any body have one laying around they would be willing to sell? I'll post a picture later tonight. If not I guess the search will begin or I'll end up making a replacement. Oh and did I mention Ugh!!!
JP75 Posted August 25, 2013 Author Posted August 25, 2013 Well I think I have decided to make a replacement. It doesn't seem to be too complicated. Hopefully the local home improvement box store has the correct thickness of metal required or it will have to wait till next week to get to a metal supplier.
unimogjohn Posted August 25, 2013 Posted August 25, 2013 There are tons of those clips on Ebay, but I am sure that your local NAPA can easily get them for you. They just need to know the spring size, L/W, that you are looking to wrap.
JP75 Posted September 8, 2013 Author Posted September 8, 2013 Ah progress. I know it's not much the first major parts are back together. The hogs head is not permanently back on yet I still need to locate a inch pound torque wrench that can measure 10-12 inch pounds. These things seem to be a rare as hens teeth. I have only found them on the web and they are not cheep. I replaced the pinion seal and in my great wisdom I forgot to mark the nut so now I have to be extra careful to get the preload correct or I see a major rebuild in the future. Right now it is just tight enough to take the slack out. The manual gives directions on how to do this with the added step of marking the nut prior to the removal so I am going to take this very slow and tighten and test until the torque wrench reads 10-12 inch pounds while rotating the pinion.
JP75 Posted October 2, 2013 Author Posted October 2, 2013 It has been one those weeks it seems like everything I touch goes to pot. Sorry no new pics. Parts I thought were good have turned out not to be so good. I have a bushing that will not torque down on the left upper control arm. It appears it had broken loose at some time and the hole is now larger than the bushing. Good news is I have a lead on a used part and may be able to pick it up this Saturday. The worst has ended up being my differential. I broke down and purchased a inch pound torque wrench and slowly set the Pinion preload. However this went horribly wrong. I have the rotating drag at 10-12 inch pounds using the old bearings like the book states however it did not turn smoothly it felt very choppy and clicked. So I took it all apart. Turns out I have two bearings that have pits (not the cause of the choppy turning and clicking) in the rollers and now the biggest concern is the crush sleeve I can not find a replacement. I could use some good advise on locating a new pinion compression sleeve and if they are not available what other options do I have. I am sure GM had to share this part on something else? One last thing does anybody who lives near Winston-Salem NC know of a shop that is good with old diffs.
JP75 Posted November 11, 2013 Author Posted November 11, 2013 Things are starting to head back in the right direction again. My last two hurdles I spoke about on my last post have been resolved. I was able to locate a replacement upper control arm at a local salvage yard. Its not as nice as my original but, at least the bushing will tighten. I consider that a win.I re-installed the hogs head today hopefully for the last time. I will have to wait till the car is back together and can go for a road test to know for sure if I got it right. For a part I was not planning on rebuilding I ended up having to take completely apart to replace two bearings and the crush sleeve. So far I think I got it right.
Guest GaWajn Posted November 14, 2013 Posted November 14, 2013 It is great when things come together. I am following your progress closely. I am doing a '52 Catalina, and you are a few steps ahead of me. I can watch your progress much like an instruction manual. Good stuff!
JP75 Posted December 5, 2013 Author Posted December 5, 2013 Another small victory. The rear axles are installed and the rear wheels are back on.
JP75 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Posted February 13, 2014 Hi I need some advise in regards to shocks. I have been taking advantage of some of the nicer days this winter am hopefully going to be completed with the chassis this spring and I have started looking at shocks. I had a bad experience with the local parts store with my wifes van and when I have the Pontiac back on the road it will be to late to return them if I do not like them. I am afraid they will be too soft(problem with van) or way to stiff hurting the ride I have heard so much about. Several sites have a suggestion but, I would like to get the advise from people who actually have and use a 50's car on who they have used and what they recommend. I am not afraid of taking advantage of modern technology to improve on the handling as long as it does not hurt the ride.Thanks in advance for any input.
PONTIAC1953 Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 on my '53 Pontiac chieftain custom catalina, I bought years ago four new Gabriel adjustable E shocks, they have three settings, regular, firm, and extra firm. extra firm makes the car ride like a truck. I plan on removing the E shocks, and installing the NOS set of four delco shocks.
JP75 Posted April 21, 2014 Author Posted April 21, 2014 Finally it has been nice enough to compete some tasks that are worth sharing. The front suspension is just about done. The left side is complete and after I paint the lower control arm and the right side will be back together. Two rims are cleaned and painted. I hope to take them and have the new tires installed next weekend. I hope to have all four wheels done and back on early next month. I bought a new fuel line and brake line from Inline tube. Installed both not great but, I made them work. The brake line kit fit much better than the gas line. The gas line needed a lot of help to fit properly but, I won and I think it will be fine. It nice to start to see some real progress.
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