CLAY BAR COMMENTS

[DAVE A]

I am curious what the professional restorers on here have to say about clay bar usage and possible hazards thereof by us amateurs. I tried a Meguiar's kit over the weekend and I am very pleased with the results. I am curious as to how often I can do it and the potential problems with use. Also, is waxing afterwards an important step???

[jscheib]

I too am curious about any posible problems. But I have used it some years ago on my '68 Riviera and am amazed about the feel and look. I also recently used it on a newly aquired white 2005 LaCrosse and it made the car look a bit whiter snf shiny. In both cases I waxed just after, and it is an effort to do both by hand. I would advocate doing the car in sections over a few days, rather than trying to do both steps in one day. I think professionals would use some type polishing compound for real dirty cars they are trying to bring back.

John

[39BuickEight]

Yes you must wax afterwards, the clay bar takes off any wax that was on there prior. As far as frequency, I don't think you can really ever hurt anything as long as you keep it wet.

[poci1957]

I have been very pleased with my use of the clay bars. My biggest worry about them is the possibility of contamination by grit in the bar. IMO this can be best prevented by:

--keeping the bar carefully stored so it stays clean. Some kits I have bought include a little plastic storage case. If not a Ziploc bag would be a good idea.

--making sure the car is thoroughly cleaned every time before using the bar. I would also very carefully restrict use of the bar on wheels or lower body panels unless verifying they are carefully cleaned first. Using it on chipped paint or other irregularities would also be bad.

Other than that I have found them effective and easy to use--more so than cleaners requiring more work. Good luck with yours, Todd

[MarrsCars]

Cleanliness of the bar's surface is paramount, you need to keep it absolutely free of dirt and if you drop it, trash it, it's not worth the risk of damaging your paint. Poci1957's suggestion of Storing in a ziplock is an excellent idea, and you must also fold the bar onto itself every so often as you're cleaning to create a clean, fresh surface. I just get in the habit of visually inspecting the surface of the bar every few strokes and once I see a tiny dark line of contaminants start to appear I fold it over again. Also, only ever use the bars with the supplied liquid lubricant, it's key to the bar's ability to glide over the paint surface. This gliding is what keeps the contained contaminants away from your paint.

Like all things, you just need to control the instinct to use "every last drop" and replace the bar after a couple of uses rather than trying to make it last for years and years. There was a kit that came with two bars for a while, that was a great value.

[stock_steve]

I've heard clay bar is useful for attacking stubborn baked-on brake dust on modern painted alloy wheels. Or is that just an urban myth?

[poci1957]

I bet it would work on wheels, seems like it would be a good use for an older used bar deemed too risky for use on the paint.

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

I swear by this product. I use all his stuff on my 1938 Buick.

Car Care, Detail Supplies, Garage Organization, Car Accessories - Griot's Garage 800-345-5789

[Ron Green]

I swear by this product. I use all his stuff on my 1938 Buick.

Car Care, Detail Supplies, Garage Organization, Car Accessories - Griot's Garage 800-345-5789

Ditto.

Have been using clay bars for many years and after trying countless manufactures Griot’s in my opinion is better, easier to use, etc than any of them. Their speed shine is also the best lubricant I have found for claying.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

So I have not used the clay bar process before, but am interested especially for my clear coat daily driver Audi & Mrs' BMW. Am I correct that this is a more aggressive cleaner than "cleaner wax" - I am suspecting it may be between that and a buffing wheel? Any thoughts as how this process compares to "clear coat compound"?

Not sure I need this for the single stage paint on my SL, which has some scratches that I woudl like to work on, overall the paint is very smooth, and the areas I want to address have scratches that do not seem to penetrate the paint. The issue of course, is always how much material to remove - is it worth it to thin the paint to address some minor scratches? I have heard, and it seems to me that the paint on these is fairly thick, but I am really not sure. I am 99% sure it is original paint. Sorry to get off topic but I figure it is close enough if anyone has any suggestions.

Thanks,

[D Yaros]

I have clayed my 1962 Olds and was absolutely amazed at the result. It is not agressive at all. What it does is remove oxidants and contaminants that are on/in the paint surface. It sets up the paint for subsequent use of cleaner/polish/sealer. Believe me, it makes all the difference in the world!

[Ron Green]

So I have not used the clay bar process before, but am interested especially for my clear coat daily driver Audi & Mrs' BMW. Am I correct that this is a more aggressive cleaner than "cleaner wax" - I am suspecting it may be between that and a buffing wheel? Any thoughts as how this process compares to "clear coat compound"?

Not sure I need this for the single stage paint on my SL, which has some scratches that I woudl like to work on, overall the paint is very smooth, and the areas I want to address have scratches that do not seem to penetrate the paint. The issue of course, is always how much material to remove - is it worth it to thin the paint to address some minor scratches? I have heard, and it seems to me that the paint on these is fairly thick, but I am really not sure. I am 99% sure it is original paint. Sorry to get off topic but I figure it is close enough if anyone has any suggestions.

Thanks,

Clay will remove the contaminants from the paint, there is no “material removed” and it won’t fix scratches, but it will remove the “contaminants” which makes removing the scratches via buffing, compound, etc much easier. Clay also works great on windows and paint overspray.

If you thoroughly clean your vehicle and can feel bumps on a flat area like the hood you have “contaminants” embedded in the paint. For my daily drivers I will leave the final rinse water on the vehicle, spray some speed shine for lubricant and use the clay. Final rinse, dry and wax.

[MarrsCars]

So I have not used the clay bar process before, but am interested especially for my clear coat daily driver Audi & Mrs' BMW. Am I correct that this is a more aggressive cleaner than "cleaner wax" - I am suspecting it may be between that and a buffing wheel? Any thoughts as how this process compares to "clear coat compound"?

Not sure I need this for the single stage paint on my SL, which has some scratches that I woudl like to work on, overall the paint is very smooth, and the areas I want to address have scratches that do not seem to penetrate the paint. The issue of course, is always how much material to remove - is it worth it to thin the paint to address some minor scratches? I have heard, and it seems to me that the paint on these is fairly thick, but I am really not sure. I am 99% sure it is original paint. Sorry to get off topic but I figure it is close enough if anyone has any suggestions.

Thanks,

Ron Green covered most of it but to back what he said, it is pretty non-invasive to use clay bar, the particles that get embedded stick to the clay and are pulled out, almost like tweezers with a splinter to use an analogy. If you have a car with pretty good paint in general, it is used to maintain that showroom finish, they say if you run your hand on the paint and it doesn't feel "like glass" then you need to clay bar to pull all that junk out. Do a small area and compare by touch to the area you haven't prepared yet and you will note the difference.

The paint on your SL is pretty thick compared to many manufacturers of the day and people tend to give Mercedes paint jobs when in many cases all that is needed is a serious buffing, the paint is incredibly durable and robust and you can save even what appears to be a lost cause on these cars with careful detailing. IMHO a Benz should only ever be repainted if the paint is literally lifting or flaking off. I'd be more inclined to use that magic "wipe on, wipe off" scratch concealer on single stage red (if I am remembering your car color correctly) or a cut paste to gently smooth the edges of the scratch then polish and wax to perfection.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Thanks guys, clay bar seems to be a good first step on the daily drivers. I was dissapointed cleaner wax did not seem to do the trick this time, but may have let too much time pass between waxing for it to be enough of a solution.

Not sure I need it on the SL, as paint is smooth and very glossy with the exception of the surface scratches and a couple of chips here and there. Marrs, I agree, painting this car right would likely cost 3 - 4K, and given we put 3,000 miles on it so far this season, I would likely end up with some new imperfections and be right back where I started, without original paint. Will be working on the scratching and chips though, as all I did so far was a hand polish.

[Guest Al Brass]

I have heard through another forum, never use a clay bar on glass, it shatters or cracks without an apparent cause some time later. Could that be correct?

Al

[Guest Bill Miller]

Al, I can't imagine that clay could adversely affect glass. As I recall glass has a hardness rating of something like 7 (diamonds are 9, sapphires 8) and clay can be molded in your hand. Sounds like somebody's uninformed urban legend. All the clay does is remove the dirt and dust particles from the paint surface and it would probably not have much effect on glass surfaces at all. Of course, I suppose you could shatter the glass by throwing a clay bar at it fast enough....

Bill

[Guest mikelj]

Anyone know what the best wetting agent or lubricant to use with the clay? Is water the best, or is there something else that is better you use?

[MarrsCars]

I have heard through another forum, never use a clay bar on glass, it shatters or cracks without an apparent cause some time later. Could that be correct?

Al

I could see that being a rare possibility if you cleaned the car body first then moved on to the glass. Any small particle or rock, etc., could theoretically put a fine scratch in the glass that would then be the weakest point. I've read on the Benz forums of members with coupes that have frameless window glass where they shattered the glass simply by nicking it with their wedding band as they closed the door. Side glass is tempered so that it will break into millions of small cubes of glass so this is more likely, a modern safety windshield probably wouldn't have the same problems.

[MarrsCars]

Anyone know what the best wetting agent or lubricant to use with the clay? Is water the best, or is there something else that is better you use?

If you buy the kit it will come with a "quick detailing" liquid for this purpose, or you can buy them stand alone in the same shelf area usually as the bars.

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

Originally Posted by mikelj

Anyone know what the best wetting agent or lubricant to use with the clay? Is water the best, or is there something else that is better you use?

This speed shine is the best to use with clay. I'm not trying to sell their product I'm just sold on it.

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/speed+shine%2C+sprayer%2C+and+8+ounces+of+clay.do?sortby=ourPicks

Edited September 12, 2012 by xp-300 (see edit history)

[Guest Al Brass]

From the Ausmini Forum.

Sent the following to Meguiars.

Dear Sir / Madam,

I regularly read posts made on the website: http://www.fordforums.com.au where I was introduced to your Quik Clay product. There were a lot of positive reports on the product. Back in 2010 I bought one of your Quick Clay kits for use on my classic Mini. As reported on the web site I was very happy with the results on my paintwork. There were numerous reports about using the product on their windscreens to get them really clear. I used Meguiars Quik Clay on my windscreen following the instructions given. That day when I drove my Mini the windscreen shattered. I put a post up on the website asking if anyone else had experienced the same thing. I was told no, they have been using it for ages on their windscreens with no negative results. This past weekend I was preparing my Mini for a classic car show and thought maybe it was a coincidence so I used Meguiars Quik Clay on my windscreen again. Once again the results were good and my screen was very clear, but once again the first time I drove my car the windscreen shattered. After some research I found the following examination to why my screen shattered:

● Its because it is a toughened (not laminated) screen. Used on all Australian Minis except Cooper S (and maybe the GT) which were laminated. The surface of the glass is in compression, when you clay bar it the surface stress is released, so tinkle tinkle. You shouldn’t even polish marks out of these screens with glass polish I’ve been told.

Get a new laminated screen……

As there is no mention of any problems associated with the use of Meguiars Quik Clay on glass on the product packaging. It opened up a debate on the website about cars with laminated windscreens and toughened glass side windows, please see the following posts:

● It has to do with the surface tension of the toughened glass. Because the glass is baked again after cutting and shaping the surface shrinks thus compressing the internal structure of the glass and hardening it. When you clay bar it you essentially are polishing the surface at a molecular level creating an uneven hardened surface. The compressed glass under the hard surface coat just needs the smallest weakness in the surface tension to cause it to fail and all it would need would be something as insignificant as a sudden temperature change or even a decent bug splatter at 100kph to "pop" the windscreen.

● Modern technology and toughening techniques have all but eliminated the issues experienced with old school toughened glass. It used to be that glass was suspended from pincers and sent back into an oven and the heating process could be a bit variable in it's results. If you check the old toughened glass from the 60s' and 70s' you'll see small dimple or pin ning nong marks along one edge where it was gripped by the pincers. Modern techniques don't hang the glass the same way and the heating process is a lot more even and controlled which makes the glass even tougher which is why a new side window can be 3mm or thinner and still hold integrity where as back in the 70s' and before the glass had to be at least 4mm thick to survive. Clay barring modern auto glass is not a problem as the surface of the glass is harder than it used to be and is mostly unaffected but that wasn't the case 30-40 years ago. Also, the larger the surface area and the more curvature to the glass, the more stress the surface is under and the more vulnerable it is to popping due to irregularities. Rule of thumb is, don't try to polish a 40 year old toughened windscreen, they don't like it.

I don’t know if you have heard of any other case where this may have happened or were aware of the possibility, but after purchasing two new windscreens for my car I think your product should carry a warning about using on any glass on any vehicle manufactured before the creation of the more modern glass. Fortunately for me, apart from a few minor cuts picking glass chards up and punching a hole through my windscreen while driving to see where I was going I was not badly hurt, but as soon as the windscreen shatters obviously I couldn’t see where I was going so the situation could have ended quite differently.

As explained this did open up quite a debate on the website mentioned with some people concerned about the use of the product on glass. I have posted on the site that I will be contacting Meguiars and that I will post any response that may be received.

Regards,

This is the responce:

[Ron Green]

This speed shine is the best to use with clay. I'm not trying to sell their product I'm just sold on it.

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/speed+shine%2C+sprayer%2C+and+8+ounces+of+clay.do?sortby=ourPicks

Light-years ahead of the other products out there. I buy it by the gallon.

[Guest mikelj]

This speed shine is the best to use with clay. I'm not trying to sell their product I'm just sold on it.

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/speed+shine%2C+sprayer%2C+and+8+ounces+of+clay.do?sortby=ourPicks

That's good, I have been using it for 15 years or so (and also have a large stock of it), just didn't know it works with the clay too, thanks.

[MarrsCars]

That's good, I have been using it for 15 years or so (and also have a large stock of it), just didn't know it works with the clay too, thanks.

I have no experience with this specific combo but an Amazon review stated that if you use it with another brand clay bar, the bar breaks down and streaks clay on the surface, so you may want to test a small area first to save yourself any cleanup, or just buy matching brand clay and lubricant to avoid issues altogether. This may also just be one person's experience, but a little caution could spare a big headache.

[poci1957]

an Amazon review stated that if you use it with another brand clay bar, the bar breaks down and streaks clay on the surface, so you may want to test a small area first to save yourself any cleanup, or just buy matching brand clay and lubricant to avoid issues altogether.

That is probably a good idea just in case. I have not used Griots but have used Mothers and Meguiars and while the lubricant and clay PROBABLY would not be incompatible they are both made of chemicals and if they are both the same brand you will avoid the risk.

[Guest mikelj]

I have no experience with this specific combo but an Amazon review stated that if you use it with another brand clay bar, the bar breaks down and streaks clay on the surface, so you may want to test a small area first to save yourself any cleanup, or just buy matching brand clay and lubricant to avoid issues altogether. This may also just be one person's experience, but a little caution could spare a big headache.

Thanks very much, good advice, I am out of the Mothers clay bars stuff anyway.