Help needed from the 65 GS folks

[Guest whlman5150]

Hello to all, I'm fairly new to the forums and am still learning who is who on here. I've read a lot of interesting things on the posts. Very helpful. Well, here it is.. I've been eyeing this car for about a year or so now. I'm a Chevy guy, and own a 69 Chevelle convertible, just got done doing an LS engine swap with pro touring suspension and brakes. Almost done with it (yeah, right!) so I was scouting around for a new project and came across a Riviera GS...at least I hope so.

About the car...it's been sitting a while, probably at least two years that I've seen it but I'm sure it has been more time. The car is in pretty good condition but has been neglected. The usual dirt and dust all over it, spider webs, tires rotted out, etc. Some surface rust on he frame and suspension but no cancer on the body. It appears to be pretty solid and from what I am told was a California car.

My overall questions here is how to confirm that it is a GS. From what I have read, mostly on the posts in these forums and magazine articles, there is no coding on the VIN or body / trim plate to signify it is a GS. Right? Or, not...

I understand that for the GS package the engine is a 425ci, LX number, BS code on tranny with a posi rear end with 3.42:1 ratio. Also the exterior badging and emblems.

Continuing about the car....it has what appears to be the correct engine with the 2/4 barrel Carter carbs on it. The only problem is that I can not see the engine number. I am looking on the front deck of the engine. I believe I am in the right area because on the valley cover there is a stamping that reads "engine number" with an arrow pointing to the deck surface. But it's not there or worn off. I even took some very fine sand paper and took it down to the bare metal and nothing. Is there another location to look for the engine number? Could it have been removed if the engine was rebuilt at one time?

The odometer reads 63k plus milage. I found some work invoices in the glove box that had the milage at 132k in 1976 so I'm sure it has been rolled over. When are these engines due for a rebuild? The car starts, did not want to run it too long, no smoke....but does need a tune up.

The only numbers I was able to locate were on the cylinder heads. They are (driver side) B1196914J and (pass side) 1196914.

The dual exhaust appears to be the more restrictive type that I've seen here on one of the posts. To me, appears to be a 2 inch or a bit smaller pipe. I don't know if this really matters but I'm trying to throw everything in here.

I was able to look at the tranny. It has a tag on it that reads BS 65 1812. So, I am assuming this is a plus. I also confirmed that it is a posi rear end and looks to be a 3.42:1 ratio based on the old spin the tire and watch the drive shaft turn. I'm not sure on how to tell if there is suspension package or upgraded springs, shocks, steering, etc.

From the body / trim plate I learned that the car was originally Champagne Mist with Fawn interior. The interior is the right color but the guy I am buying it from changed the color to a dark green, assuming it is the Verde Green for that year. Not a big deal but will take some buffing to get it looking good. The chrome on the bumpers are decent but could be redone at some point. The molding is in pretty darn good shape. The other equipment that is on the car is A/C, AM/FM radio with rear speaker, pwr windows, crank vent windows, pwr driver seat, pwr antenna, four tone horns, and also has the Gran Sport emblem on the glove box and sides and rear of car. The car is missing the headlight motor for the clamshells. Dang it! I guess that will be an eBay search or something that will be made up later.

I'm going to call it for now. I'm sure you guys will come up with some theories and great information. The only thing that has me stumped is the engine number. I look forward to your replies and thanks again for your time and interest! (Gary)

[mt65riv]

Welcome.

I hope it'a a real GS. There is a registry that you might check here. Also, if the block was machined, the tech may have done the top of the engine, too. Not sure that is necessary.

I think if you tear the block down that there are some internal differences with a 425 vs 401. Don't know if you can tell an LX from a non LX, though.

Any pics? Is it driveable? Sounds like a cool car. At worst it sounds like someone took all the good parts from a GS and put them on your car.

Exhausts can always be changed. With more than 132k in '76 it may have been replaced with the more common exhaust.

Keep investigating, you may find a build sheet or the info in the owner's manual that will verify the originality.

Mike

[JZRIV]

The best way to ID an original car is to identify engine is an LX code and then match the engine VIN to the Body VIN. Its cut and dried.

The LX code will be on the pass side of the thermostat (left side if facing engine)and the VIN will be on the driver side. Sometimes they are stamped lightly so you really have to look close. The area where the stampings are is not one that would need machined or resurfaced if the engine was rebuilt. Internally the only thing different was the camshaft and this is easily identifiable once the engine is taken apart....assuming of course the cam hasn't been changed.

If its 132k it will need rebuilt. Not saying it won't run OK with that mileage but the age andmiles combined it should be rebuilt for reliability and best performance.

If there really are no stampings on the engine, it becomes more difficult to ID the car as an original GS. Through the use of date codes and other small lesser known details, it can still be done to determine if it is/was a GS beyond a reasonable doubt.

As far as the suspension the only way I know to ID that is by the coil spring wire diameter. The GS springs used a heavier wire diameter compared to standard. Getting "factual" info on the spring specs could be challenging.

If you become a Riviera Owner the best thing you can do is Join ROA. There is a tremendous amount of info available to members through tech advisors and the library not to mention parts sources.

Edited October 30, 2011 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[Guest whlman5150]

Thanks guys for getting back to me...as for your comments, the odometer currently reads 63,886. So again, I do believe it's been rolled over and is actually 163'886. The invoice I found dated in 1976 had the 132k written on it. I was thinking to myself that the engine had to be rebuilt at least once.

You guys mention the exhaust...in the later years would they (factory or after market) only offer one type of exhaust system? Some of it does not appear to be factory because there are glass packs installed at the rear of the car where the muffler looks like it mounts. (between the rear end housing and gas tank).

A quick examination of the coil springs while I was under the car...hard to tell if they were the heavy duty springs. They did look pretty beefy ( sorry no pics of them). Any idea what the spring or coil diameter is for the heavy duty ones?

We mention a build sheet above, that's what I was thinking. Coming from tinkering on Chevys, I know in some of the Chevelles they are found in interesting areas.....above the gas tank, under the rear seats, etc. Any ideas on where to look in the Riviera?

Yes, the car does run. Oil and everything looks ok but I would flush out all the fluids, tune up, brakes, tranny flush, radiator, etc before I took it out on the road. No smoke when shes running, has a small gas leak on the front carb where the inlet is. Engine sounds pretty smooth.

I am trying to post a few pics with this response. Bare with me, using an IPad and not really sure if this thing will let me upload the pics. If not, I will have to do it from a regular computer. Thanks again for your help!

(looks like I will have to do it from a computer.....this thing (iPad) not real user friendly for a guy that is a PC user so maybe it's the operator!)

Gary

[Guest whlman5150]

[RivNut]

Here's a link to show you where to find the numbers. Time, dirt, grease, and repaints can make them hard to read. A razor blade on a long handle will help you uncover them. As Jason says, if it's an LX motor (letters on passenger side) and if the engine serial number (numbers on driver's side) match the VIN, chances are it's the real McCoy.

Ed

Team Buick

[Guest whlman5150]

Thanks Ed....yeah, seems simple enough. I've taken it down to the bare metal with light sand paper and still nothing that pops out. Jason mentions date codes and other items....any clues to that? In looking at the car, from what I've read, you wouldn't think a person would go to all the trouble to clone this car putting the engine with the 2/4 barrel carbs, tranny with the BS number and the posi with the 3.42:1 ratio but, if it gets the extera $$$ I guess they would. Earlier theres mention of putting the car's information into a regestery. Any idea who I contact to do that or where to go?

I've got the VIN and body plate information if that does anything for identification purposes.

Also, lets assume the engine was rebuilt at one time and the machine shop did smooth out the top for some reason...is the only way to tell a 401 from a 425 is by looking at the camshaft? Or, if the engine was replace with another 425 but not the one that came with the car...is that a big deal when you are claiming it to be a GS? I mean, I understand it's not "numbers matching". But, is it a big No, No? Any thoughts...?

Thanks! ....Gary

[bepnewt]

Just to be sure, is this where you're looking for the stamped numbers?

That's where they are on my '64, I assume it's the same place on the '65. Someone will correct if not.

-BEPNewt

[RivNut]

There are other ways of externally identifying a 425 from a 401, but the stamped numbers are the only real deal. GS was an option in /65 just like power windows or a four note horn set up. Nothing in the VIN to tell you anything. Someone would have to have found a wrecked GS to pull off a clone. The transmission code, rear axle ratio. suspension, glove box door, ect. There's also a specific distributor that goes with the Super Wildcat engine - it's timed differently than the single four barrel 425's. I don't have the numbers for that distributor, but they're on an aluminum band that fits around the shaft of the distributor. Has you sand paper gotten you all the way down to bare metal on the block surface? If not, keep going; that's why I suggested a razor blade or paint scraper. Unless someone is going do a total 400 point resotration and ask BIG$$$$ for a car, there's really no reason to clone one then let is set for a number of years.

I mentioned earlier that the GS was an option, just like power windows or a four note horn set up. No reason you can't add the GS parts that make up the option and have a GS. The only thing you might not have would be a matching numbers engine/chassis. See if there's any explantion as to why there are no numbers to be found stamped into the block. I have a friend in central KS who has a legitimate GS with no numbers on the block, BUT he has paperwork to show that a new engine was installed under warranty shortly after the car was delivered from the factory.

How much of a "premium" is the seller tacking on because he's selling it as a GS. You haven't yet mentioned how much he's asking for it. Post an asking price and you'll get a few opinions as to whether it's worth the asking price based on your description. If you like it, and the money's okay with you, then by all means buy it.

Ed

Here's the 425 identification link: Read ALL of it carefully

http://www.teambuick.com/forums/view.php?pg=ident_engine_425

Edited October 30, 2011 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Guest whlman5150]

Brian, Yes...that's the location. Iv'e sanded it down to the bare metal...And Ed, I seem to remember someone talking about the distributor number also. Dang, I've got to go back and see if I have that link saved!

The guy who has the car now really doesn't know that much about it and its history. He came into the car after his brother left it to him and left the country. We are between $7k and $9k right now.

Maybe I'll take a look at the distributor. Where's the tag located? Do I have to pull the thing out to see it?

Thanks!

[bepnewt]

There should be a wrap-around tag on the distributor with number 1111058 on it.

http://forums.aaca.org/f177/where-numbers-distributor-300568.html

Based on that thread, there's a good chance it doesn't exist anymore.

-BEPNewt

[JZRIV]

We mention a build sheet above, that's what I was thinking. Coming from tinkering on Chevys, I know in some of the Chevelles they are found in interesting areas.....above the gas tank, under the rear seats, etc. Any ideas on where to look in the Riviera?

Gary

Agree the engine has probably been rebuilt at some point with that mileage. As for the build sheet, in this generation Riv those the the equivalent of the proverbial "needle in the haystack" They rarely made it into the car.

The engine is definitely a CA engine due to the closed crankcase breather on the driver valve cover for the big chrome dual snorkel air cleaner. Its nice the original hose is still intact on the breather.

If you can get a close up pic of the area you cleaned off to see the numbers we may be able to tell if its been machined.

Without the LX code & matching VIN, the process of using date codes and other details to identify can a very time consuming process and few are knowledgeable in that area specific to the Riv.......unlike the Chevy group where any and all info has been published over and over.

As far as the price without the engine numbers or other supporting documentation relative to it being a GS I think the price might be a bit high.

Having said that.....if indeed the body is rock solid including trunk and passenger compartment floors that is a huge benefit and would significantly reduce cost of restoration. In that case its probably in the ballpark especially if all the other numbers match up. Since the owner doesn't know much about the car, the results of your investigation could increase the value so be careful what you communicate back to him.

[Guest whlman5150]

Gentlemen, thanks for your input. This coming week I will try to get back to the car to check for the tag on the distributor. Also, I will see if I can get a picture of the surface where the engine number is supposed to be. Post it to see what you guys think.

If there's anything else you guys think off please post it.

Thanks again!

Gary

[lrlforfun]

OK Gary: First of all, no one can go wrong with any 65 Riv. It is so much different than a Chev as are the people. There is a very large Chevy nation where the Buick Nation is dramatically smaller. I like Chevs myself and they are out of my comfort zone.

To the car. Looks like there were seat covers on the seats for a long time. Also, from the looks of the inside it could have been undercover with a window open. Who really knows? I'm pretty sure it's a legit GS. It also has nice equipment, custom interior, power windows a/c, am-fm, cruise and the fancy steering wheel. If this car has not been molested, runs good and isn't rotten I'd say you certainly are on the right track. Mitch

[Patrick91914]

Thought I'd chime in and offer and my thought. If it has an LX block, posi, aluminum valve covers, GS ornamentation in all the right spots, BS code, distributor (tag may or may not be around), dual quad set-up (carbs and air cleaner), correct springs and right size exhaust, then it has the GS package and nobody can dispute that.

These cars are old enough that engines could have been changed, but if it was replaced with another LX code block, that's what's important.

I think too many guys get caught up in the numbers matching thing. What's more important to me is that the package is complete, that the car has a solid body, and is complete as possible.

If the car has the LX block, the BS code tranny, and the glove box emblem (these items are hard to find) the car probably came from the factory that way...and even it it was added later and done correctly, then I still say it's a GS. How could it not be?

This sounds like the real deal and it runs. All else being okay, I say jump on it and get busy. That car needs alot of work to get right and it'll be tougher than doing a Chevy just because parts are harder to get.

....and by the way, send me the VIN so I can register the car.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Patrick91914 (see edit history)

[Guest Rob J]

Here's a pic of my L X block, and how and where the L X should be located.

It certainly does look like a pretty nice car, and I think the asking price is more than fair, given the body is not rotted out.

[lrlforfun]

OK Riviera People: Remember what I say about matching numbers....

It doesn't matter in a million years and don't get caught up it that mythology. I heard a commentator at a TV classic car auction claim that "that car was born with that engine". I thought people were born and cars were manufactured.

And......I still can't tell the difference in performance between a 401 and 425. I'd much rather have a 65 Riv that was reliable. Mitch

Edited October 31, 2011 by lrlforfun
mistake (see edit history)

[Guest whlman5150]

Mitch, Patrick and Rob, thanks guys for your expertise and input. I'm trying to make an educated decision about the car. I really like it, especially the body lines and clamshell lights (even though the motor is missing).

I most likely will try again this week to see if I missed something on that engine number....and to try and look at the distributor.

Also, Patrick I will email you that information that you requested. I have a few pictures of that stuff.

I will keep you guys posted on what I find out.

Thanks again!

Gary

[Guest Rob J]

Don't sweat the headlight motor too much. I just picked up a replacement rebuilt motor on e-bay for $395.00 It has a slightly longer and more powerful motor on it that the original one. I installed it a couple of weeks ago on my 401 65 Riv, and it works great. See below.

[RivNut]

Gary,

As I follow this thread and listen to all the things that the car needs, it makes me think that you can negotiate a really good price for this car if you take all of your "concerns" to the seller and show him what it will take to make this car 100% again.

I went back and looked at the pictures and was able to enlarge them quite a bit. I noticed that there is no cowling under the windshield and the wiper arms are missing as well. The carpeting on the driver's side of the console is missing, as are the center caps for the wheels. The welt between the passenger's kick panel and the door frame is askewed. What about the rest of them? From what I can see of the seats, what can be seen is the same fabric and stitching as an original; they're not seat covers, but in the pictures only the left front corner of the passenger's seat is visible. The fuel filter is wrong; on a/c cars, there should be a return line from the outlet side of the filter to a line that returns to the tank. Where's the rest of that line? Is the chrome dual snorkle air breather and knurled hold down nut there? Big expense IF you have to find another one.

If you post your location, you might be able to find an ROA member who lives close and knows more about what to look for take a look at it for you. Sometimes your heart refuses to let your eyes see everything that's there (or not there.) Rather than looking at what's good about the car, look at what's wrong with it. Then after figuring out what work and $$$ it will take to bring it back to life, ask yourself if it's really worth it.

Ed

Edited October 31, 2011 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Guest whlman5150]

Ed, I read the last post...most of the equipment you mention, the cowl covering, windshield wipers and the dual snorkle air cleaner is in the trunk of the car. There are also a couple emblems and trim pieces there too.

As for the fuel filter. yeah...that's one thing that caught even my eye....doesn't look stock or factory. Appears someone has changed it and put this type of filter on it. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was able to get the car up on a hoist and look under it. Don't get me wrong, there is years of neglect under there and just about every thing will need to be cleaned and repainted. But the floor boards, the fender wells and the trunk look good...a little surface rust but no "cancer". I think some surface rust remover, a bit of elbow grease and some under coating or POR 15, it will be in very good shape.

When I was under the car, I could tell someone had replced the fuel (rubber) lines from the gas tank. They were not cracked or dried out but actually looked and felt new. Now that you mention the second line or return line...I did see two line under the car but I never traced the line up to the engine compartment. I suspect the line that you speak of is laying some where in the engine compartment.

By the way, and I know this next question is open for all kinds of answers but I figured guys like you would know. What would a top notch 65 GS, with all the right numbers, trim, paint, etc. be valued at? And now another question...If any of the items you identified in the pictures I attached (carpet, trim, seats, etc.) were in "poor" condition and needed replacement, how much does that effect an asking price of the car. As you can see in the pictures, the wood inserts are kinda hammered and will need to be replced or refinished. I'm still learning about these cars and don't have that much information yet.

Is it that a 65 Riviera is a rare car itself? And, to take it a bit further, a 65 Riviera Gran Sport even more rare? Trying to put it into perspective using a 1970 Chevy Chevelle SS, LS6 car (numbers matching).....very rare car! In perfect condition, probably would be worth $80K to $100K.

(Sorry, trying to learn the Buick thing!)

Thanks!

Gary

[Guest Rob J]

As much as I'd like to think, as I am doing a nut and bolt frame off restoration on a 65 GS to show quality, I doubt even a 400 point car would be worth 80-100k. At least not in the present market. I'd venture and say that a #1 very nicely done 65 GS with the right options, colors, would bring 70k tops today. And, that might be stretching it. Doing all, or most of the work yourself, you can easily sink 30-40k into one of these cars. 65 Riv parts are not cheap.

Right now, I have put the GS restoration on hold, as I am doing a driver quality restoration on another 65 401 Riv that I picked up in June of this year. I have to admit, I really am enjoying working on these cars. They are so different than other cars that I've worked on in the past, and that keeps it interesting for me. I still feel strong that if you can get that car for 6-8k, you will be ok value wise, as long as there aren't any major surprises. Figure an engine, dual carb, and transmission rebuild will run you in the range of 7-9k or so, if done by a qualified guy. Tom Telesco (Nailhead guru) is rebuilding my engine, and carbs.

BTW, the main fuel lines from front to rear should be hard steel lines that run under the passenger side rocker rail. The only rubber should be two short pieces from the tank pickup to the hard lines in back, and from the hard line in front to the fuel pump, then to the filter, then the return from the filter to the front hard line. You can also find NOS AC Delco GF423 Fuel filters on ebay from time to time. I bought two of them several months ago.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Rob J (see edit history)

[bepnewt]

By the way, and I know this next question is open for all kinds of answers but I figured guys like you would know. What would a top notch 65 GS, with all the right numbers, trim, paint, etc. be valued at?

First, the level-set. I'm new to this, also. I've only been on the forums for about 9 months but have loved the 'Riv for many years.

From what I've seen over the last 9 months, a really nice '65 GS that is restored well will sell between $30k and $45k in this economy if you wait for the right buyer. Probably more if you get really crazy with all the right fasteners - nuts, bolts, everything. A "decent" restore can sell for $22k to $28k but won't stand up to a 400pt inspection. You'll see some crazy-ass auctions on TV where they "go" for $70k - $90k or so, but that's seems unrealistic for a "normal" person selling one.

If you are in this for a profitable restoration, you may be able to make a little bit if you do most of the work yourself and you're starting with something solid. I can't imagine restoring one and selling it, though. The cars are just too beautiful.

-BEPNewt

[Guest Rob J]

Here's how a correct factory LX code 425 should look. You will see the proper silver AC Delco fuel filter, and filter bracket. Notice the fuel supply from the pump on the bottom of the filter, then the supply on top to the carbs, then the unattached fuel return on the top front.

Here you can also see my restored fuel filter bracket to the right, below the water neck. That bracket attaches to the two water neck bolts.

My Restored Air Filter. I have the correct acorn nut, just not shown in this photo. If your acorn nut is missing, there is a guy local here in Miami whom has a very nice replica for about $30.00 or so.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Rob J (see edit history)

[JZRIV]

By the way, and I know this next question is open for all kinds of answers but I figured guys like you would know. What would a top notch 65 GS, with all the right numbers, trim, paint, etc. be valued at? And now another question...If any of the items you identified in the pictures I attached (carpet, trim, seats, etc.) were in "poor" condition and needed replacement, how much does that effect an asking price of the car. As you can see in the pictures, the wood inserts are kinda hammered and will need to be replced or refinished. I'm still learning about these cars and don't have that much information yet.

Is it that a 65 Riviera is a rare car itself? And, to take it a bit further, a 65 Riviera Gran Sport even more rare? Trying to put it into perspective using a 1970 Chevy Chevelle SS, LS6 car (numbers matching).....very rare car! In perfect condition, probably would be worth $80K to $100K.

(Sorry, trying to learn the Buick thing!)

Thanks!

Gary

Gary,

As you know, there are various levels of restoration and the perception of each varies with the individual. At best we can make general assesments due to there being so many unknowns in this potential project.

Unless you are capable of doing all work yourself including show winning body and final paint it will be very difficult to restore that car and turn a true profit. To get the highest price, the more money and time that must be put into it but you never really get farther ahead in investment vs value. Investment keeps chasing the value down. Key factors going in are body condition, initial price paid for car, and how much work you can do yourself.

I would be hesitant to plan a full blown professional resto on a car without the matching LX engine..... again if financial gain is important to you. When you start expecting high end value, its much in your favor if all numbers match. Having said that it does appear it could be a legit GS so there is some potential if you can get the selling price down and do a frame-on slightly lower level resto. Keep in mind this is just my own personal opinion which may not be consistent with what yours or others opinions are.

Many folks don't care if they put more into a cars restoration financially than its market value because they don't do it for that. It sounds like end value vs investment is important to you. Even though I don't restore a car to make money, I do use end value as a guide to keep the financial end of it in line.

I am doing a high end restoration now on a 66 GS and am tracking every expense on a spreadsheet down to transportation fuel costs for delivery and pickup of parts to a can of spray paint at Walmart. The costs mount very quickly when everything is factored in. Through ROA, I have developed 25 years of personal parts contacts and knowledge in the Riviera world and thats the only thing that is saving my rear-end on this project. One thing is for sure, I know I can go buy a 65 GS in very nice condition for say $30-$35,000 that needs little where I'd never be able to buy a $3000-$6000 car in need of full resto and do it for the same amount of money.

I'm not trying to sway you either way. Just giving one opinion.....that at times is in contrast to others on the forum. Only you can make the final decision on if its right for you.

[RivNut]

Your question is about rarity. I'll give you some figures and you can decide for yourself what is rare and what's not. In the case of a '65 Riviera equipped with the GS option, you'll be putting value on options rather than rarity.

1965 Riviera total production =34,568 units

1965 Rivieras with single four barrel 401 (LT) = 28,467

1965 Rivieras with GS option and dual four barrel (LX) = 3,354 units

1965 Rivieras with single four barrel 425 (LW)= 2,311 units

1965 Riviera with LX engine but no GS option = 454 units

If you're looking for rarity, find a '65 with a 425 - more rare than a GS; or the most rare is the '65 Riviera with the LX engine but sans the GS option.

Almost 10% of the Rivieras sold in '65 were GS optioned cars. Does 10% equate to rarity??? Compare these percentages your '70 Chevelle SS LS6. What do you come up with? If you're specifically looking for GS, you need to remember one thing - the original GS option cost an additonal $308.36.

If you're looking for something really rare, find a '66 GS with the MZ engine code (179 units)

Ed

[Guest whlman5150]

Wow! Ed....I see what you mean. Guess that 1965 Rivi with the LX, no GS options is the rare one in that line up. I'm starting to learn some of this stuff....thanks again!

Gary

[1965rivgs]

Hi Gary,

Matching numbers is best but original docs and/or POP is almost as good. Check for a dark green booklet, same size as an owners manual. The POP will be affixed to the back page. If you`re a Chevy guy I know you know what a POP is.

In the absence of the original engine I would like to see a 425 and not a replacement 401. Check the casting number behind the distributor on the top of the bellhousing. If the last three digits are "704" you have a 425.

In regard to the H2 suspension option check the ratio of the steering box. If the steering wheel turns 3 and 7/8ths turns lock to lock you have the standard box/suspension. If the wheel turns 2 and 7/8ths turns you have the quick box/H2 suspension. UNLIKE subsequent years the quick steering was part of the H2 suspension package in `65.

The relative rarity of the LX equipped non-GS cars does not translate into increased value for the same reason buyers rarely chose that option in `65. Why settle for just the dual quads when you can have the whole package? In `65 it was only a couple of dollars extra, still true in a builder condition specimen but on the other end, after restoration, it will be worth much more.

For what it`s worth, given the limited photos and considering opinions are like axxholes (everybody`s got one!), if the car is not hammered up, is not rotted, and can become a driver with some fuss, the price you stated is a no-brainer. Also consider this opinion is coming from a life long, rust belt resident. Good luck! Buy the car, join the club.

Please note that if you pass on this Riv you can PM the contact info to me. I promise I`ll give it the care it deserves, a rebuilt headlight motor and a good home....

Tom Mooney

[Guest Rob J]

Listen to Tom. Few people know these cars like him.

[petelempert]

The older I get...and I'm not really that old...the less I care about the whole numbers matching thing. I started in this hobby with a "valuable (non Riv) car" and was slavish about OEM parts, originality, factory paint marks...on and on. Today, I'm driving that car with my kids to the drive-in for burgers and it even gets rained on sometimes. It is incredibly liberating to enjoy the car regardless of what it's pedigree or resale value is. I say, buy that car. It looks really cool to me. It's about a million times better than the Riv I started with. Spend as much as you want to make it the way you want it to and never look back. Who's to say what the "value" is after you're done. If you buy it and enjoy it..it's priceless. If not, sell it and move on. PRL

[Yellowriv]

I've read all of these posts and I agree with Tom and Pete's particularly.

I have a 65 Riv thats about as basic as can be, the only option it has is a/c. The only "rare" thing about is that its Midnight Aqua, the least popular colour for 65, 900 or so produced.

I bought it because its beautiful, rust free, completely original including paint and has all books and receipts including the original california paper number plate. The car goes well, uses vast quantities of fuel and I always look back at it after I park it. I dont know what its worth and, at present, dont care.

All this numbers matching/GS non GS stuff is great fun but none at all if the car is a dog.

I think the usual rule applies here, just buy the best car you can afford. Go and get one Gary, you wont regret it, they really are special.

[bepnewt]

... and I always look back at it after I park it.

As do I. I just can't help it.

-BEPNewt

[Guest onedesertdog]

Wow! Ed....I see what you mean. Guess that 1965 Rivi with the LX, no GS options is the rare one in that line up. I'm starting to learn some of this stuff....thanks again!

Gary

I'm with you on the learning stuff.

The more I read, the more I get confused.lol

I have a 65 Rivi w/ matching numbers and it has the LX stamp. Veh. has a/c, elect. windows, elect. seats, r/c d/s/remote mirror, etc. but I can't find a GS stamping or logo, to include the standard glove box door.

So, I think I need to join ROA and maybe find some answers.

Another odd item concerns the interior. Research led me to believe the num. for the blue int. is 610. The tag on the firewall is stamped 611, which shows up on the 66 Rivi I believe.

Oh well, it's still a 65 Rivi.

Sorry for interrupting the thread,

Buddy

[mt65riv]

...and I always look back at it after I park it...

... and smile.

It's difficult not to. It's the reason you have one and not a Honda. (no offense to anyone who owns a Honda here )

[Guest Rob J]

I'm with you on the learning stuff.

The more I read, the more I get confused.lol

I have a 65 Rivi w/ matching numbers and it has the LX stamp. Veh. has a/c, elect. windows, elect. seats, r/c d/s/remote mirror, etc. but I can't find a GS stamping or logo, to include the standard glove box door.

So, I think I need to join ROA and maybe find some answers.

Another odd item concerns the interior. Research led me to believe the num. for the blue int. is 610. The tag on the firewall is stamped 611, which shows up on the 66 Rivi I believe.

Oh well, it's still a 65 Rivi.

Sorry for interrupting the thread,

Buddy

Well, if you have an LX coded block, and the numbers on the block match the vin on the door jamb, then you my friend have one of the rare 454 65's with the Dual Quad motor, but without the GS package.

611 was also used in 1964 to signify blue vinyl and cloth interior.

[Guest onedesertdog]

Thanks Rob, That helped me alot. It is indeed stamped LX and eng. num. and vin match.

It has CC stamped on the firewall tag, and 611 interior Num. The interior is blue cloth w/ vinyl.

So what is the difference between the GS and the Non GS, other than the non GS only having 400+ made?

Thanks again for the help and reply,

Buddy

[Guest whlman5150]

Just checking back in. Thanks to all that have given their opinions and input on the car. Tom, thank you for the info on the casting numbers and the suspension. I plan on checking these things out this week. I hope it checks out to be all the right stuff. But, if not, the car still appeals to me.

When I started with my Chevelle, I wanted a car that I could do the resto-mod thing. It's still not done but getting there...ha! As for the Rivi, it will be another project that I will keep mostly stock. No crazy engine swaps.....maybe some performance upgrades, cam, headers, ignition, etc. Of coarse, this stuff would be added to a fresh motor as I would just get the motor in it now in good running condition. Hopefully, I can get away with a good over all cleaning and tune up to get it back on the road.

I will check back in later this week.....and either have more questions or let you know if we have a new Rivi owner. You all have a good week!

Thanks again

Gary

[Guest whlman5150]

Ok, just adding some info on this. Tom, it has to do with the casting numbers you mentioned.

I just had a chance to look at the area Tom described above. The only numbers I could make out are 1364704. There is about a 3 or 4 digit space Ghent the number 12 on the same line as the casting number. There is also a GM stamped above the casting number, just above the last two digits / numbers (04). There is also F28 stamped on the engine....it runs length wise (front to back of the motor) and the other numbers and letters are across from left to right. Also, going back to the engine number on the front valley pan. There appears to be a 2 and 8 on the drivers side of the engine. There is a 2 and 8 as the last two numbers of the VIN. I still can't get the other numbers to come up...man!

I did not get a chance to check the steering from lock to lock, darn battery was dead.....go figure!

Anyway, just thought I'd post the latest. Thanks.....have a good one!

Gary

[arnulfo de l.a.]

as previously stated, that car appears to be a gran sport. if i were you i would jump on it. it runs , body and interior look good, parts that are missing are relatively easy to get.quit stalling , you may lose it!

arnulfo

[Guest Rob J]

What ever happened with this car? Did you end up buying it? Keep us informed.

Rob.