adam1982 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I had never heard of this before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcarfudd Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Is that the one in Wells, Maine? If so, I've always found it odd that a one-off (sometimes touted as Edsel's personal car), that looks like a T with extra cylinders, was given a letter ahead of K, N, R, and S, all of which predated it.Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Gil, I understand your question, but then that would mean naming a Ford in 1928 as Model A would also be suspect, since there in 1903 the first Model A was built.....What I find unusual about this 6 cylinder T-like car, is that there's only one. If Ford went to all the toruble to make the casting patterns for a 6 cylinder, why cast only one, why not cast 100?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Just an educated guess, there was a 6 cyclinder T in the Ford collection when I first visited in 1968. It sold to a noted Massachusetts dealer and he had it in a Hershey swap meet in the 1970's. My guess is this is the same package just fixed up a bit nicer. Both time when I saw it it had many post brass era T parts on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motoringicons Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Actually, there were more than a few 6-cylinder Model T-esque engines made by Ford. The Henry Ford Museum still has at least one in storage and there were a couple sold at their auctions in the 1980s. I believe there was one at Harrahs as well. One showed up at Hershey many years ago mounted on a chassis, it might be the one pictured here. Also, a few of these 6 cylinder engines have been made up in recent years. Edsel did own a 6 cylinder Model T speedster that was sold by the Henry Ford Museum in the 1980s, but it had more of a boat tail body on it and resembled a Mercury Model T speedster body. This car still exists in the midwest in a private collection. I don't believe Ford actually gave this engine a letter designation -I have always heard them referred to as 6 cylinder Model Ts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 It always bothered me that all of Edsels cars were sold off by the collection, glad I got to see his Bugatti before it was sold and "Restored". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Saxton Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 The J is a triple block variant of the N,R, and S. I have photos which I can easily email; But, for the love of Mike, do not expect me to wase my time trying to learn something so convoluted and otherwise totally useless to me as the method of placing photos on the forum. If someone likes to send me a PM with an email address I can send them to I will send them on. I can also send photos of several of David's other early Fords, at an event at Lardner Park a couple of years ago. There is a restored 1904, (which even has the authentic red fibre brake lining), and new authentic replica spiral fin radiator tubes which David made himself. I have a couple of photos of the unrestored, conserved , two lever/two pedal T from the Hershey auction of Swigert cars. It is all as it was originally made, with correct rear axle assembly and sheet metal transmission cover. There is also one of three Quadricycle replicas made at Ford Geelong, which remained property of the family of the largest Ford dealer in New Zealand until recently.I apologise that I cannot post photos directly on the forum that are likely to be of interest to people, but I have just to many other preoccupations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layden B Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Pictured car has 1920's axles. Would speculate this is a saw and weld job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motoringicons Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) The car in question and the cars/engines I was referring to are a mono-block six cylinder with a single, removable head-just like a standard T engine but two cylinders bigger. I think they were made well into Model T production as a possible variant to the four cylinder Model T. Layden is right, the car pictured is a built up car with one of these engines installed.The Henry Ford Museum did own a six cylinder c. 1908 Model S roadster which has the engine Ivan is referring to with the three, separate N-R-S cylinder jugs. This car ended up in Australia , but I am not sure where it is now. It was one of the cars sold during their 1980s auctions.Unfortunately, I am out of town and don't have access to my old Henry Ford Auction catalogs. I'll try to remember to scan photos of the 6 cylinder Model S roadster and the Edsel Ford 6 cylinder Model T boat tail speedster. Edited September 26, 2011 by motoringicons (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Saxton Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 The Henry Ford Museum did own a six cylinder c. 1908 Model S roadster which has the engine Ivan is referring to with the three, separate N-R-S cylinder jugs. This car ended up in Australia , but I am not sure where it is now. It was one of the cars sold during their 1980s auctions.Unfortunately, I am out of town and don't have access to my old Henry Ford Auction catalogs. I'll try to remember to scan photos of the 6 cylinder Model S roadster and the Edsel Ford 6 cylinder Model T boat tail speedster.Yes, the car is fully retored about 20 minutes from here. Information is that when the Ford Museum obtained it they fitted a spare model S body to it. This was not a perfect fit. David had much earlier information from the man who had it for a long time before that, if my memory is correct; and it now is in its original form as far as is possible to determine. Information is that it is a couple of years earlier than the S, and is correctly called a J, at the model letter mentioned at the top of the thread. As I said, I have current photos on my computer which I can email to anyone who cares to put them on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Does this car have any relationship to the developement of the 6-cyl model K? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Yes, the car is fully retored about 20 minutes from here. Information is that when the Ford Museum obtained it they fitted a spare model S body to it. This was not a perfect fit. David had much earlier information from the man who had it for a long time before that, if my memory is correct; and it now is in its original form as far as is possible to determine. Information is that it is a couple of years earlier than the S, and is correctly called a J, at the model letter mentioned at the top of the thread. As I said, I have current photos on my computer which I can email to anyone who cares to put them on the forum.Feel free to send them to me and I will post them. Johnkeiser31@charter.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMoneyPit Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Our T club was at Wells a few years ago - you can see the poor cutting & welding on the head of the 6-cylinder T and we all felt it to be VERY suspect. As for the 3 headed S engine - it had a history that would be much harder to discount... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Does this car have any relationship to the developement of the 6-cyl model K?Other than their being six-cylinder powered Fords made before WW I, I don't think there's any relationship.The Model K luxury Ford was an actual production car, being made from 1906-1908, with the cylinder block castings bolted to the crankcase.These six-cylinder Model T's have mono-bloc engines that look just like a stock four-cylinder T, but with two extra cylinders.I wonder if Old Henry knew about the six-cylinder T's... :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Ivan's photos... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Saxton Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Thank you again John for posting the photos. You can see on the left end of the front axle the patch where David has exposed the original colour.To respond to a couple of points: I think you will find that the J experimental car and the big K shared the same unconventional firing order, and probably the same Faith and Hope engine lubrication. One of the Ks here now runs with a conventional firing order. The other is a very early number with the hump on the top of the radiator. The owner was very skeptical about the engine oiling, so he "ïmproved" it. The first day of the first club run, the engine totally lubricated the car, the weekend luggage, himself, and his wife. I guess you have to think over very carefully any changes you might want to make to an early car; lest you prove embarrassingly that the designer was right in the first place. David told me that the J was a Ford family car. I don't know if early Fords have casting dates, but it obviously was made after a lot of model N cars, and I understand probably before the R and S. The fitting of the S body was not a good adaptation, probably what you would call a "cobbled-up"job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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