Series 1 Supercharged

[Guest breather]

I have a 1990 Reatta Coupe with over 250,000 miles on it. I just recently acquired a 3800 series 1 supercharged motor out of a 1991 Buick Park Avenue Ultra. My question is; Is it worth the headaches involved in swapping that motor with my hi-mileage one? The naturally aspirated one runs fine except for some minor tune up issues. I do have the ECU that came out of the Park Avenue with the series 1. I probably could get a hold of the tranny also. I know it wont be a tremendous increase in power, but the motor has new bearings, Head gaskets, since the heads checked out OK. What do you think? What would you do?

Thanks for any responses.

[Guest diesel991]

If i were in your shoes, id buy a V8 engine and trans out of a Cadillac (north star) and do the swap. Id much rather a V8 over a 6 cyl. Just my 2 cents

[Guest Recian]

i'd go with series1 or series2 supercharged depending how far you wana get into this. Sinister performance has done both swaps and can advise you on the deph of the Series2. If you went with a V8 go with the 5.3L from the impalaSS. The north star is the biggest piece of junk GM ever made. I heard from the techs at our buick dealer they came off the truck leaking oil. (sarcastically of corse but just to describe how notorious they are for problems lol) And youre gona pay out the a** for parts to fix it if anything goes bad on top of the lack of room you'll have to fix anything as opposed to the SS 5.3L that has few issues.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Recian (see edit history)

[Guest diesel991]

ohhhh learned something new. 5.3L it is thanks Recian

[NCReatta]

My first choice would be a Series 1 S/C. Second would be the 5.3 that Recian mentioned.

If you put a Series 2 in, you'll be dealing with an OBD2 engine in an OBD1 car.

And I would never put a north star in anything.. Nor will I ever buy something with one in it. They're a pain to do anything on.

You'd be best off to grab the tranny from the PA. It will be heavier duty, and be able to take the power of the Series 1.

It would be best to also to have the PA right next to the Reatta when doing the swap, so you can take pieces and swap them over as needed.

[KDirk]

Add me to the northstar haters club. Cadillac should be ashamed to have their name on that piece of, er, engine, especially after it's predecessor, the 4.9 PFI V8, which was the lowest warranty claim engine in Cadillac's history, was so good. Yeah, it was only 200HP vs 275/300 on the northstar but who needs high performance in a Cadillac land yacht with a curb weight of nearly 2 tons. My Deville handles great and has plenty of power with "only" 200HP from the 4.9.

As I've said here before, the major reason I got into Reattas was because I was too spooked by head failures on the northstar to risk buying an Eldorado. Half case seals were also a major problem on the N* [there's those oil leaks previously spoken of]. Going with the Reatta is easily the best choice I ever made vehicle-wise.

Really, they just made an engine that was unnecessarily complicated and difficult to repair, so forget the N* and stick with a 3800 or the 5.3 as suggested. 3800 series 1 swap would be easiest (relatively speaking) due to direct mating to transmission and reduced rewiring. I won't venture to guess what is involved in the 5.3 swap, since the needed level of mechanical expertise to do so is well beyond my capabilities.

KDirk

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

I have a 1990 Reatta Coupe with over 250,000 miles on it. I just recently acquired a 3800 series 1 supercharged motor out of a 1991 Buick Park Avenue Ultra. My question is; Is it worth the headaches involved in swapping that motor with my hi-mileage one? The naturally aspirated one runs fine except for some minor tune up issues. I do have the ECU that came out of the Park Avenue with the series 1. I probably could get a hold of the tranny also. I know it wont be a tremendous increase in power, but the motor has new bearings, Head gaskets, since the heads checked out OK. What do you think? What would you do?

Thanks for any responses.

Back to the original question.....

If you have the negine do the swap. It is very straight foward. If you can get the tranny use it also the only diffrens is the passanger side tranny mount, and the fact you will need a 91 passenger axle. As far as the ECM you can have yours reprogrammed for like 100 bucks from GMtuners.com. IMHO the ECM for the donor car shuld only be used to control the tranny, this way you keep all the on bord diagnostics and BCM also continues to operate.

Just for those of you considering the SS LS4 swap......

good luck figuring out the axles and replaceing spark plugs. I would love to take on the project sometime, but it will be a little ways down the road. Also it is not a good idea to bring up for some one worried about if they can accoplish a SC swap as it would be a much more involved swap.

[padgett]

Amazing part is that the NothStar had it roots in the Oldsmobile Quad-4 of 1987. Even though a four cyl 2.3 liter (half of a 4.5 liter V-8) the head and DOHC design is remarkably similar and also was a royal pain to do a head job. I know of five different TSBs just on how to torque the head. And then Olds got it back in the form of the 4.0 liter for the Aurora.

Must admit that when it ran well it was a smooth and powerful engine. We had a 90 Grand Am with it and found oit about the head issue when it developed an oil leak in the head gasket.

[Guest Recian]

GM hasnt had much along the lines of OHC much less DOHC exept for the northstar designs and ECOTEC. Even tho theyve retired the 3800 their 3500 and 3900 share a similar design and i think theyre still internal cam engines. Im still used to nissan's way. Every engine is a DOHC and you put 2 2.5L 4 cyls together and it looks identical to the 5.6L V8 lol same aluminum block with black valve cover

[padgett]

Pontiac SOHC 6 in 1966 with the sliding oil pump. Cosworth Vega in 1974. Twin DOHC in 1990. Quad-4 which became Northstar. And these are just ones that made production.

Was infested with Jags in my yout. Later I had a FLAT 124 spyder. Like boost, OHC has its place just its over 7,000 rpm and then you want desmo.

Opinionated ? I'm not opinionated.

[wws944]

Don't forget the DOHC 3.4 in the early '90s, and a number of current "high value" engines. It is a lot easier to optimally place the valves in the combustion chamber with OHC. And play tricks like VVT and multiple valves/cylinder.

OTOH, people who are used to pushrod motors don't think much of timing belts and the need to change them every ??K miles.

[ReattaTType]

The swap is a great swap as I have completed it. Very much easy to change the engine over, however I kept my stock transmission as I am swapping in the 6 speed manual this winter. I swapped in the Series 1 Supercharged L67, however I am running an OBD-II system in my 1988. If you just want a good cruiser with some additional pep, this engine will be perfect. If you want slightly more improvement, switch to the 94-95 Supercharger and intake manifold. This Eaton M62 was ported from the factory and also features a smaller pulley and a revised intake manifold design over the 91-93. This was good for an extra 15-20 hp if I remember correctly.

However, if you want the option with more aftermarket, the Series 2 is ideal with some modifications to keep it OBD-1, knock sensor is one of them. OBD-2 can be done, but requires some tedious wiring. Also use the 98-02 computers in that case, a 97 W-body should be avoided as its computer is problematic and slightly different to the 98. It simply will fry itself during tests.

As for the LS4, its tight but it would fit. Has decent aftermarket but the transmission is quite heavy and axles would be difficult as mentioned, I would imagine having to use different wheel bearings to allow larger diameter axles. Also it is a newer engine that requires more fabrication and is fairly pricey to pick up. Wouldn't recommend it unless you wanted a serious swap.

And finally the Northstar, while the first gen Northstar was quite horrendous and I personally wouldn't bother due to reliability concerns, overcomplicated maintenance such as the starter, and no aftermarket. The 2001+ Northstars are actually quite good and more reliable than earlier, they still can have some lemons.

While the Northstar was pretty bad it allowed GM to compete with import luxury using smaller displacement to create higher power numbers. The engine was also designed to be lighter and easier to package in slightly smaller vehicles. As many might or might not know, Cadillac's fate was in question at around 1991/92 and it was discussed that Cadillac could be axed. The 92+ STS' success helped keep Cadillac on the table and in the roster. Largely also due to the new tech introduced in the Northstar package after the 4.9 was phased out. Large RWD Caddy's lacked a business case and couldn't compete, the Northstar helped usher in competitive FWD packaging. Long term it did have its problems though I know some who like their Northstars.

[dship]

All I know is I own two Eldo's, a 1999 ETC and a 2000 ESC, both N*'s and have never had one bit of trouble with either one. I get fantastic highway and local miles/gal and plenty of HP's.

[harry yarnell]

I'm into Northstars, Beautiful designed engine with four overhead cams and four valves per cyl. Love 'em.

Th achelles heel are the head gaskets; not only the gaskets, but when you remove the headbolts, the threads come out of the aluminum block with the bolts. All twenty block holes have to be Tyme-inserted.

Did I mention the powertrain has to be removed from the vehicle to do this?

It's no wonder folks give up on perfectly good Caddy's when this happens. As you can imagine, this 'aint cheap to fix.

The latest technice is to install studs., instead of bolts.

Both provide a long term motor.

[handmedownreatta]

All I know is I own two Eldo's, a 1999 ETC and a 2000 ESC, both N*'s and have never had one bit of trouble with either one. I get fantastic highway and local miles/gal and plenty of HP's.

how much gas mileage?