idrjoe_sandiego Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) The following information is specifically about some modifications I made to my 1929 Dodge DA Gemmer Steering Box. The Gemmer is used in many makes and models of cars so much of this can be applied to other steering boxes. Any information you see here is strictly for amusement. Should you decide to try this on your own automobile, do so at your own risk. The ideas presented here are an amalgam of information available on the web as well as some original ideas as applied to my vehicle. The first two parts of this thread can be found here This new thread will address the biggest leak found with the Gemmer. This leak is at the lower end of the steering box where the lighting switch is located (labeled #34 on the Exploded diagram). Please refer to the exploded diagram of the Gemmer found in the 1929-30 Dodge DA Owner's Manual. The idea here is to add a stainless steel tube to the end plate which is about 6" long. The level of the gear oil in the steering box will be lower than the tube's opening,therefore ending the nagging leak. The Ford Model A uses a Gemmer and an added feature in many aftermarket dealers is a stamped steel tube similar to what I describe here. They are usually made very cheaply and frankly don't work very well (in my experience). Additionally, they won't work on the Dodge box as they are different sizes. The following pictures will help describe the procedure. The third picture is one I photo-shopped the SS tube in on a side view of the Gemmer so you can see how this idea works. The rest of the pics are captioned and are self-explanatory. Edited July 24, 2021 by idrjoe_sandiego updated links (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idrjoe_sandiego Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 Continuing on you will see the completion of the project.I will have a few more installments on further improvements that go beyond stopping the leaks and actually improving the performance of the steering box and ultimately improving the handling of your vehicle. The hot rodding continues. Stay tuned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idrjoe_sandiego Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) Here's a little more of the story. The endplate leak is actually the first attempt I made at stopping the profuse leaking of gear lube from the box. This particular box functioned well and really didn't need to be rebuilt. Steering boxes (like differentials) are probably best left alone unless they are causing handling problems. Once the endplate leak was stopped, I reinstalled the box, filled it up with fluid. Guess what, the fluid just poured out thru the next biggest leaks, which were described earlier (leak#1 & #2) between the two halves of the box and at the end of the sector shaft. It was at this point I decided to end the leaks once and for all. So out the box came again. I tore it apart to find the cork gasket was shot between the halves. I then realized the only thing that was supposed to keep the gear oil from leaking out the end of the sector shaft was the bushings. Bushing were not designed to seal anything. The original engineers must have decided "just let it leak." That's when I decided a sector shaft seal was needed. In addition, the bushings obviously wear out in short order, so I replaced these with needle roller bearings. Lastly, the interface between the sector shaft and the housing is not originally a thrust bushing, but a piece of hard leather! You can see it on the shaft in my earlier photos. So I replaced this with a needle roller bearing sandwiched in between two thrust bearings. Now you can really take the slop out of the box. It is incredibly smooth to drive now. Feels like it was when it was new, maybe better. If there is any interest I can post a few photos of how that was done. Edited June 5, 2011 by idrjoe_sandiego (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Harmatuk Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 ThanksI'm saving this.Same box I have on my 30 Chrysler.Bill H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MidTNDawg Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Joe, just caught up with some things now. By all means, please post the othe pics and how to do.Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bohlig Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 JoeGreat stuff. Thanks for the good work! I think this would be a wonderful writeup for the DBC News. I was thinking of something similar to the multi part series done a couple of years ago on the Stewart vac tank. I know, easy for me to suggest a lot of work for you. But seems like a natural series which might include parts numbers such as the needle bearings, bushing stock raw stock dimensions, etc.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idrjoe_sandiego Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Hi Paul and Doug- thanks, glad you like it. Actually, an article for the DB News is what I had in mind when these pictures were taken. Picture-taking during a greasy job easily doubles the time to get the job done!! Do a procedure. Stop. Wipe up the mess. Get the camera. Shoot the pics. Now start again! But if it can help a few of the other members, it is time well spent. This forum and the DB Club, its members and Newsletter has always been such great help to me on my projects-I like to return the favor whenever possible. I will post the rest of the info and pics I have here as time permits. Any additional info/comments the forum members have to offer will be added to the write-up for the newsletter (provided JB-ed finds the content worth printing!) Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MidTNDawg Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Joe, no rush from me. Just wanted to be sure you know I do want the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MidTNDawg Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Hey Joe, when do you think you can finish this? I may be ready if I can gather up some courage. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB-ed Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 JB-ed welcomes your submission of a manuscript and photos soon as possible in this subject. Just type it out and save to a CD along with the photos. I'd prefer you do not send pix via internet as I have telegraph-era phone line and no DSL or cable service in my location. Downloading takes 1/2 day or longer for photos of any quality.ED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MidTNDawg Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Hey, Joe. Finally trying to do something. namely stop the leaks. Just how thin js the tube wall? Seems it will be really thin. I sure understand the thicker wall where the weld is. Just wondering if you recall. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIClassicGirl Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Lastly, the interface between the sector shaft and the housing is not originally a thrust bushing, but a piece of hard leather! You can see it on the shaft in my earlier photos. So I replaced this with a needle roller bearing sandwiched in between two thrust bearings. Now you can really take the slop out of the box. It is incredibly smooth to drive now. Feels like it was when it was new, maybe better. If there is any interest I can post a few photos of how that was done.Joe, my husband wants to know if you have a Napa or other supplier part number for the needle roller bearing/thrust washer. He is currently working on our steering box & found this thread. The Napa guys looked at him funny when he asked for the leather washer for the inside of the Gemmer Steering box...lol Thanks for anything you can provide for info!!Shannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayG Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Check with Bratton's Model A parts. They have a website. They have all of the parts needed to modify the steering box. Great people too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MidTNDawg Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Joe, my husband wants to know if you have a Napa or other supplier part number for the needle roller bearing/thrust washer. He is currently working on our steering box & found this thread. The Napa guys looked at him funny when he asked for the leather washer for the inside of the Gemmer Steering box...lol Thanks for anything you can provide for info!!ShannonShannon, I have a very good NAPA dealer and I am personal friends with him. He may have been able to help me but he sent me to a local bearing supply house. They were able to help me with all the parts I needed. And I will add at reasonable prices. My suggestion is find you nearest bearing dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27dodger0 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 From what I've been told, leakage was considered normal years ago. The saying I heard was "when the leaking stops, the trouble starts"! Just thought I'd throw this in! HA HA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MidTNDawg Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Paul Bohlig has suggested I post part numbers (w/ mfgr) and I will try to do that. The modification works very well. I am headed out of town for about a week so it will have to be when I get back, sorry about that. So will do as soon as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIClassicGirl Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Thanks Doug. Get to it when you can! I appreciate the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Has anyone figured out a way to get the older DB steering gear boxes to stop leaking? There is a spiral groove in the brass eccentric bushing that provides a perfect leak path right out to the arm. Is there a lube thick enough that it won't leak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MidTNDawg Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Has anyone figured out a way to get the older DB steering gear boxes to stop leaking? There is a spiral groove in the brass eccentric bushing that provides a perfect leak path right out to the arm. Is there a lube thick enough that it won't leak?I used idrjoe's mod instructions along with the recommended "steam oil" and I suppose there is some leakage, but I promise it is absolutely minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The early box is quite a bit different. There doesn't seem to be any way to seal the sector shaft eccentric bushing. I suppose I could slow it down if I carefully applied some RTV at the end of the spiral groove... I'll have to try the steam oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Can you cut a circumferential groove in it and slip in an O-ring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 That's what I was initially hoping to do but the brass is pretty thin at the narrow side of eccentric and the spiral groove depth makes it worse. Unfortunately I didn't take any good photos of the bushing when I last had it apart. I have a spare I'll tear down and then get some good pics for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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