Black cloth convertible tops / Database Methodology

[Barney Eaton]

In 1990 some black convertible tops on Reattas came from the factory in a cloth fabric. All white and tan tops were vinyl and there was also black vinyl.

I searched the database in an attempt to determine a pattern. The problem is not every black top is identified as cloth or vinyl on the database.

If you look at the database, you will note that some tops are noted as cloth. The first one I found was 904361 which is about half way into 1990 Reatta build. The last one in the database is 908512, three from the end.

For some reason they were building Reattas with both cloth and vinyl convertible tops. I called Thomas Havens in Florida, a former Craft Centre employee that told me his main job was installing the tops. Thomas could not remember any tops being cloth, so I guess it was not important at the time.

If you have a 1990 Reatta convertible with a black top it would be helpful if you would post your info here or send it directly to me. I need the car vin and if the black top is cloth or vinyl.

Using the present information on the database, there are 26 know cloth tops.

If you don't know if your top is original, look at the information label in the trunk by the spare. Code 41T = black vinyl, code 19T = black cloth.

If you want a good accurate database, then send your information.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Rawja (see edit history)

[reattadudes]

does this "revisionist history" ever end, Barney?

you sat thru the same meeting that I did at the Tech Center back in 2003 during the 100th anniversary of Buick week.

so did my former business partner, Randy Graves.

so did former Lousiville Buick dealer Tom Payette.

so did Greg Ross, along with about 70 other people.

as I mentioned in the previous thread about a week ago, the meeting was a chance for Reatta owners and enthusiasts to meet some of the people who worked at the Craft Centre.

as I also mentioned, one of the last guys to speak was a jug-eared fellow with a southern accent. he worked on the trim line.

for some reason, you sat up front with the Craft Centre folks, which seemed a bit odd, but it did give you first dibs to see the scrapbook this guy brought.

do you remember that scrapbook, Barney?

in case you don't, I'll refresh your memory. inside were photos of claret red cars with RED cloth tops, maui blue care with BLUE cloth tops, silver cars with RED or BLUE cloth tops, and even a driftwood convertible with a SADDLE cloth top.

do you suppose this guy had a prototype version of Photoshop in 1989 to alter the photos, or were they showing things to this day you won't even acknowledge exist?

of course being a gentleman, I won't write down the profanity-laced comments you made to Randy and I, witnessed by two people, as we walked across the field from the host hotel to the Tech Center.

the profanity laced comments were related to the fact I said there were convertibles built with cloth tops; you said there weren't, "because you'd never seen one".

did I mention this was the first time we met?

we sell a lot of convertible tops, and I always try to sell the Haartz cloth variety, since they look so much nicer than the vinyl.

I always ask what they presently have, and I'd say in the past eight years I've come across about 50 that come with the cloth tops as original equipment. not a single one was black. I'm not saying there aren't any black ones (I have one myself, #7526, that had a factory black cloth top, now gray cloth), but there were a lot of other colors, too.

this is exactly where all of the problems come in, and why I'm compelled to write. it's pretty sad when the "keeper of the database" REFUSES to acknowledge facts and actual photographs that are presented by former GM employees that prove these cars did indeed exist. I know you saw those photographs, because I was there, too.

and this refusal to admit this simple proven facts is absolutely ridiculous; it seems everyone (including GM employees) is wrong; you are ALWAYS right.

Reattas did not come down a fast-moving assembly line as Cavaliers did at the Lordstown plant, like so many M&Ms.

the Craft Centre was set up from day one to do custom work when requested; otherwise it would have been just like every other GM facility.

it wasn't.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

Edited May 4, 2011 by reattadudes (see edit history)

[padgett]

The black has a black top, spi says 19T (two places) s/n 7942

ps one of the reasons I bought it was because the top/window was so nice.

Edited May 5, 2011 by padgett (see edit history)

[Barney Eaton]

I should not respond to your rant........... however there are many new Reatta owners that visit this forum and they may sometime start believeing you if someone does not respond.

The first problem I have is trying to determine your point. To the first part, yes I remember the scrapbook and I have a copy of all the photos in that scrapbook and there is not a picture of red (burgundy) car with a red top. The car with the red top is silver. I don't believe the picture quality is clear enough for anyone to say the driftwood car had a cloth top.

I do not make "profanity laced" statements to anyone. I have ask Tom Payette and he does not remember any of the accusations you have made (from the 2003 meet in Flint)

always ask what they presently have, and I'd say in the past eight years I've come across about 50 that come with the cloth tops as original equipment. not a single one was black. I'm not saying there aren't any black ones (I have one myself, #7526, that had a factory black cloth top, now gray cloth), but there were a lot of other colors, too.

I understand why the above statement is included.....because it does not make any more sense than the others...... First you say you have "come across about 50 ....cloth tops but not a single one was black".......... then say "I have one myself". How is anyone supposed to listen to you let alone believe your stories if you cannot keep you story straight?

You are confused on who is refusing to accept facts. You have stories, sightings, and experience but fail to produce data, build sheets, Service Parts labels, or any other tangable documentation to back up your ongoing fantasy. The photo that you said Tony showed you last week, taken from a roof top with the green convertibles in the front row....... I don't suppose you ask for a copy?

If you had any true interest in factual documentation, you would photograph these rare, custom built Reattas you have view in these private collections. Using the excuse that the owners want to keep them a secret certainly is a way of avoiding producing some form of documentation.

Today, when I talked to Thomas, I did not ask him leading questions. What he volunteered was he does not remember any custom Reattas coming down the line. He said that if there was anything special done to them engineering or Milford would take a production car and modify it....but they did not. They did not have a department within the Craft centre to do that type of work. I also received a note from Tom Partee (ask Tony who he is) and he said " someone is delusional." He said" that never happened in building the Reattas...... they never built a green convertible! They built green coupes but no convertibles."

For some reason, the people I talk to that were involved do not have the same recollection as the people you talk to, I don't understand.

For those of you that are fed up this this ongoing debate, I will no longer respond to anything posted by M.R. I will bite my tongue when I see his post with fantisy stories.

Anyone can express their opinion, but please remember it is an opinion unless they can back it up.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Barney Eaton (see edit history)

[reattadudes]

how interesting, Barney.

you say some black tops were vinyl, and some were cloth, and "all white and tan tops were vinyl".

if the photo of the driftwood convertible "wasn't clear enough for you", it was clear enough for many of us. the fact that he said it was cloth was good enough for me; he was there at the Craft Centre, and installed the top himself. don't you think he would know? he took the photo BECAUSE it was tan cloth.

hmmm...a tan cloth top, yet "all white and tan tops were vinyl".

I'm rather surprised he wasn't "challenged" by you, since there was no code in the order book for either the blue or red cloth. all it does is back up what I've said all along; things done at the Craft Centre were not always by the book.

computers at this stage were rudimentary, and didn't allow any changes to their limited programs. so a silver car with a red top would most likely leave with either a white or black code for the top on the label in the trunk, but the window sticker would reflect the actual color.

would you have even mentioned the blue and red tops if I hadn't?

nope. because they don't fit into the scheme of things for you. you just can't stand the fact that there were indeed variations for your "norm", something I've been saying from the first few times I've posted here way back in 2002.

it's interesting how we differ when something shows up "that wasn't in the order book". I celebrate it, with an ear-to-ear-grin on my face. if it's an original owner car, a very interesting story always accompanies the car. a customer's 1990 Reatta convertible in Palm Springs is finished in code 57 Camel Beige, a 1990 Century color. they had it painted at the Craft Centre to match their 1990 Park Avenue, also specially painted in the same shade. the Park Avenue is long gone, but the Reatta will be around forever.

your attitude is the opposite, as though the car and it's owner are some kind of affront to the information you've tried to project as "true".

I don't quite understand how my post was confusing. I was discussing colored tops only, and the fact that there have been 50 non-black cloth tops we sold to replace original equipment colored cloth tops.

the black cloth tops are quite common, and I commend you for finally admitting the existence of at least one color of cloth. that's certainly a change from not long ago for you, when the merest of suggestions of cloth tops always "came from the lips of liars", whether it be lil' 'ol me, or those silly know nothings who worked at the Craft Centre.

whenever anyone disputes your "truth", be it me, that poor woman who worked at OnStar, or who knows who, we are to be "challenged"; guilty until proven innocent, and if "proof" is indeed provided, it will either be ignored or swept under the rug, like the irrefutable examples that guy gave with his very simple photographs taken at the Craft Centre.

it's a shame that I have to provide the history of what happened, as you would have never even mentioned the photographs you saw with red, blue, and tan cloth tops.

it's most unfair to the thousands of folks who read this forum, because it eliminates many of the special, one off cars that were built there.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

[Guest wally888]

Enough of the B.S. !

Read "Games People Play" by Bernes then you will realize you can not win the game you have invented. You'll be constantly changing from persecuter to victim!

Submitted by the "Rescuer"!

[Guest Greg Ross]

I strolled across the field from the Tech Centre with Mike that day, and I do remember very clearly.

End of statement

[Booreatta]

Ladies and Gentlemen I have been the director of the Reatta Division for the past 3 years and I have enjoyed it very much. I am not running for re election so the time has come for me to voice my opinion. I have taken the time to follow up with people who have been mentioned on this forum to check or follow up on statements made about off normal cars. Some I think are made up and others strech the truth.

I would like to make sure that all new members get the facts. Not everything said on the forum is the truth. The only thing that I can say is that if you are a new member of the forum please remember to challange any statement about the Reatta. About the only way to prove something is to see a photo or other written proof. We must remain true to the facts and not fall for non facts. Facts made up can become facts that are not true in the future. Our Reattas are new enough right now that the people that were involved with the build are still around and know the facts. I have talked to several of them and they have told me that some on the forum are full of S**T and just want to tell the story their way.

All members need to challange all statements and demand proof and lot listen to somebody not able or willing to provide the proof needed. The Reatta does not deserve the grandstanding that is going on. I have spent many phone calls to Michigan State U looking for the green convertible from contacting the newspapers requesting photos of parades to contacting the alumi asscoiation chasing the green convertible that was around for several years. I have not been successul yet but I will keep trying. I have called the Olds museum in Lansing and they do not have a Reatta of any type, the comment was made that they had one but it was not green. I then called the Olds Museum in Florida in St Augustine and they do not have any Reattas and never have had that they can remember. My conclusion is that the GREEN convertible is a myth unless someone can produce proof.

I will continue to check the sources of those that post on this forum as there is nothing to be gained by made up stories. I will continue to have an open mind but I will research the truth, BOTTOM LINE WE ONLY NEED THE FACTS HERE. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS AND PROVE YOUR STATEMENTS. I realize this post will created some ill feelings but I really dont care. If you post it you will be challanged by me and others and I will not put up with preverications about our great hobby

Thanks for the rant

Chuck Kerls

booreatta@cox.net

316-655-1099

[NYBobP]

That was well put Chuck, plus anyone who uses the word "preverications" has my greatest respect and admiration.

[Guest steveskyhawk]

I agree with Chuck however the "burden of proof" should be equal for everyone including Barney Eaton and his database.

Barney Eaton is his own worst enemy. He is obsessed with "completing" his database. In the recent thread on "cloth tops" is one example of how he attempts to complete his database with his own assumptions. Barney implies that that he can interpolate an attribute of a group of cars by looking for a pattern and then filling in the empty fields based on his assumption. This isn't fact; this is Barney's opinion. He has damaged the database he began with by his technique of filling in the empty fields based on his own assumptions. He has referred to the database as "ours" but believe me it is all his.

Barney said

"I searched the database in an attempt to determine a pattern. The problem is not every black top is identified as cloth or vinyl on the database.

If you look at the database, you will note that some tops are noted as cloth. The first one I found was 904361 which is about half way into 1990 Reatta build. The last one in the database is 908512, three from the end."

Why would he be looking for a pattern? The cars weren't built strictly on Vin sequence. Barney used this same technique to triple the number of Polo Green Coupes in his db (but not in reality). He completely discounted a former GM employee's statement that there were 50 green coupes of which she owned one. In this case Barney took it upon himself to "assign" polo green to a string of Vin numbers that had an empty color field where he believed he saw a pattern.

Barney consistently uses unverified data from ebay, Craigs list and even the penny saver to fill out his database. He has suggested that we gather data from cars in parking lots. He is oblivious to the fact that one digit off on a Vin can invalidate the associated data. I personally strip 1 or 2 Reattas a month. I don't provide Vins on these cars for fear that if I make a single digit mistake on the vin YOUR PRIDE AND JOY could be erroneously listed in Barneys db as scrap. No data is better than bad data. No data is moot. Incorrect data can devalue some specific cars and the Model in general. Barney doesn't have the best interest of the Reatta in mind only his need to be an authority

For whatever reason, Barney considers himself the authority on Reattas and the rest of us are "novices" in spite of the fact he has never worked in the automobile industry in any capacity. He uses his made up database as proof that GM Craft Centre Engineers that worked on the Reatta don't know what they are talking about. Barney has stated that if he hasn't seen it than it doesn't exist. I pointed out an ad on Craigs list that featured Maui/Saddle car. Barney argued that my monitor was bad and that his db doesn't include that color combination. Works out that he was looking at the wrong ad and had to eat the cheese. Did the GM engineer imagine the 4 green convertibles? Is the MSU car part of his lie? I have personally spoken to a gentleman that saw a polo green 91 convertible on the showroom floor but Barney will insist that it didn't exist because he didn't personally see it. Are we ALL liars?

Barney's closed mindedness has destroyed his credibility and his tainted database. He misses the reality that was the Craft Centre in the late 80s. The production methods were intended to make "non standard" cars routine. He doesn't understand that sometimes there just wasn't a "code" for a non standard attribute. Computing power was limited. Furthermore his condescending, and sometimes nasty replies to forum members questions is unforgivable. After reading his replies to some of the maintenance questions, it is obvious that he hasn't done much more than change a light bulb on a Reatta.

At this time I believe it is in the best interest of the BCA and the Reatta division for Barney Eaton to resign from the Reatta divisions technical adviser post. I would hope that he would find the courage and the keystrokes to hit the "delete all" on his database because it simply is not credible. I would like to see his replacement be objective rather than obsessive.

See you all in Danvers.

[Barney Eaton]

There seems to be a misconception that I make up this stuff.

Here is the challange. Pick a car that I have logged as green. Put the vin number into Compnine search and show me one that is not green.

It should not take long if Steve is right, He says I made up 2/3 of them so all you need to do is search 3 number and one should be wrong. Won't happen.

[Guest Kingsley]

I now feel compelled to comment.

Prior to moving to California, I owned a Reatta and became aware of one of the participants through Hemmings and relied upon them for valuable help and assistance for which I was and am now extremely greatful.

After moving to California, continued my contact with them and was motivated to re-design and replicate several Reatta parts. Unfortunately, I listened to tirades against one participant to the point that I believed them and, in extremely poor taste, took some issues aganst the other on the Forum.

After being involved in selling Reatta parts for a while, I became aware of frailties in the conduct of business by one participant and even became the victim on two occasions . Unfortunately the frailties continue even as I write this - absolute failure to ship merchandise after having received paymemt, delayed shipment of valuable merchandise - close to several months in my case - after having received my payment with other such reported instances, failure to reply to phone calls and emails. At one pont, I was forced to report an instance to Hemmings in order to protect my name and set the record straight. I am running out of fingers to count the instances of frailty.

With the above in mind, now we see seemingly wild delusional forades by one participant against the other and they seem difficult to believe. These forades are full of "hate and vitriol" - please note that those words are plagarized from a PM sent from one Forum contributor to another descibing one of my posts - certainly not beneficial to the Reatta commuinity.

One participant gives freely of his time and effort as do many of the Forum contributors and God bless'em all. The other, not alone in his efforts, constantly criticizes the other with delusional tone and substantially distracts from the benefit of the Forum. A shame as both participants have a vast amount of Reattas but one uses it constructively and the other more often in a relatively non-contributory manner.

To defuse a comment that will be probably forthcoming, in the past I have, but do not now, been the beneficiary of many referrals from one participant and I am most appreciative of that. I say have been as the referrals are now apparently directed elsewhere. Having said that, it is a wildly competitive market out there and anyone is free to do as their ethics dictate. No one owes me anything.

I think a big factor in all of this is, from my perspective, is the very understandable fact that some folks sell Reatta parts for a living whereas in my case I have the luxury of being retired and certainly not dependent upon selling parts for profit. It enables a rather unbiased viewpoint - I can call a spade a spade - and can conduct my activity as a source of pleasure/creativity and enjoy the competitive challenges that come with it.

As mentioned before, Rodney had it right - can we not just get along and move forward enjoying our Reattas. Comments on the Forum should be constructive - not otherwise . One can disagree withput being disagreeable and just put their words in a rational manner.

I hope this post is not deleted as I felt this backgrouind was needed to give a perspective of the overall situation. It is given with no malice toward anyone.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Kingsley
Typos and add comment (see edit history)

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

I'm trying to come up with the best comparison to use in describing these ongoing diatribes.

1. Can of Worms

2. Pandora's Box

3. Hatfield - McCoy Fued

I had hoped that all would have come to their senses and taken Mom's advice to heart that if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything. After all Mom's day is this coming Sunday.

Doesn't look like any hatchets are going to be buried anytime soon, so in an effort to preserve precious bandwidth on this forum I propose that the bantering back and forth of anecdotal and hearsay evidence along with personal enmity cease and from now on now on only information and proposed changes to any database that can be backed up by verifiable evidence be printed on this forum.

We pride ourselves on having the best automotive forum on the net, and these types of postings give that image a black eye and accomplish nothing.

[Guest steveskyhawk]

Barney said,

"Pick a car that I have logged as green."

Notice the pronoun "I". He admits that he and only he logged the car as green. How did he decide it was green?

Case closed. Please resign

[Booreatta]

I can solve this problem very easily post the numbers in question and someone pull the vin off compnine and we will have the facts. if the data base is right great if it is wrong it can be corrected. we dont need to bash each other. We are after all adults here

Chuck Kerls

booreatta@cox.net

316-655-1099

[Guest steveskyhawk]

CompNine is a manufacturer generated database which we all trust. I would agree that the data in CompNine to be far more reliable than the barney base.

Therefore the barneybase should be deleted because of questionable data collection and management and the new technical adviser should only quote statistics and answer inquires that reference CompNine data. I understand that much time was put into the old barneybase as was the theory that the world is flat. Forward thinkers were treated the same way in the dark ages as they are now.

[Rawja]

I'm posting this for Barney as I had to assist with a technical issue with the below photo:

Barney writes:

The photo is one that Mike referred to from the 2003 meet.

I do not intend to start or prolong anything with Mike but this is to let others in on the discussion. The photo was supplied by a fellow named Wilson that worked at the Craft Centre. He had 8 pictures from there but this is the only one of completed cars.

The photo shows a silver car with burgandy top. From good GM documentation, I can identify the car as 1G4EC33C8LB900024 color, top, and side molding match.

The car behind is white with tan top..... it is either 900023 or 25, both cars were identical white cars, tan interior, tan top even the pinstripe and CD player option were the same.

The only way to positively identify the second car would be to look at the vin on the dash. The back two cars appear to be black coupes.

At the start of 1990 production, 900001 was a red coupe with tan interior and they built coupes (not all red) until 900011 which was white/blue. the next car was the first production convertible built and it was 1G4EC33C1LB900012 a red convertible, tan interior and white top. They continued to build convertibles to 900028 (white/tan/black top) then 900029 was a red coupe and they built red coupe through 900060.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Rawja (see edit history)

[Rawja]

I might as well weigh-in at this point.

I don't believe the database is inerrant. I do believe there were quite a few unusually-equipped and even off-menu Reattas. I don't see any contradiction between the two preceding statements.

I have submitted all my VINs to the database and will submit all Reattas I acquire in the future.

If someone wants to audit the database, that'd be great. Someone with a head for the math (not me) can determine what would be a representative sample size that can provide a statistical forecast for errors within the entire dataset. Again there are established formulas for this sort of thing, and given the mentality demonstrated by some here I think we have that talent here "in house".

I haven't looked at the database in a long time, but AFAIR there were names associated with the VINs. In the cases where it was reported by the owner of the vehicle we can reasonably consider it to be correct.

In any case regardless of past history and apparent bad blood there is no conceivable reason such an inconsequential topic merits such a level of vitriol.

I don't consult the database when buying a Reatta and if I bought one and it showed as a totaled vehicle in the database, assuming it wasn't totaled and I had discovered an error in the data, just one email would fix it. We're not talking about Bugattis and Duesenbergs here or even special edition Corvettes. They're all pretty much the same, albeit wonderful car.

All parties want the database to be as accurate as possible. When we all agree on the final goal, working together to achieve it is much more productive than pissing on the hard work done thus far.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Rawja (see edit history)

[tbenvie]

Though I am not an active forum participant, I have owned over 100 Reattas since 1988 and have read the forums for a long time. Before Reattas I collected AMC AMXs and Javelins, and consider myself well educated in the cars. I managed to get a ton of factory documentation on the cars and have published a lot of it on the various AMC forums. I have been criticized by a number of people for what I said, despite the factory documentation. Some people want to believe what they want. I once owned a Super Stock AMX race car. Hurst made 53 of these for AMC in 1969, and back in 1978 when I bought mine I thought it was a real one. After a lot of research I found that although it had every single part that was correct for the car, despite the fact I bought it off the original dealer as an unsold car, I found it was not a Hurst built car in the original sequence. If you have any interest in these cars, please visit my website:

Super Stock AMX .com - Home

if nothing else, you will see I know what I am talking about.

I am intrigued by the history of the Reatta, and even though people are alive that worked on them, it is no different that the many, many people I interviewed who were involved in the Hurst AMX program. And this was when the cars were 9 years old, not 20. A lot of the info given me was later proven incorrect. The data will not lie, and my research has proven at least in this case, the truth.

So I figured Compnine has all the factory info, so should be correct. Will there be a green convertible or not? Top types, color combos not usually ordered? I would have loved to get this info for the AMXs.

I bought a subscription to Compnine and ran the VINs of every single 1991 Reatta Convertible. I then copied the info into a Word document. Using Legal sized paper in landscape format, each car takes about two pages. Every code for all the Reattas is there. When done I will transfer it all into an Excel spreadsheet, thus allowing for an easy search. The Word document is over 600 pages and used a few ink cartridges to print. I am then running all the VINs in a carfax type database to find out more on the cars. When done I will be happy to share this info, with my Word document or Excel document. Hopefully it will be done this weekend.

As a cursory check, I did do a "Find" search in my Word document for red, green, beechwood, white, etc. Every single search yielded results-except green. Don't want to jump in with conclusive evidence before I compile everything, but just thought I would share.

[padgett]

Hokay, this is getting silly. After way too long very deep into GM cars (mostly Pontiacs & have records you would not believe) all I can say is "never say never".

With Pontiacs we have access to all the billing records since mid 1959. All of them (and GM was computerized in the early 60s with option codes in binary (well, BCD) order).

For example "body in the aisle" is a giveaway that something odd was going on. Of course before the EPA if you wanted a 421 in a Tempest, NP. Later most were relegated to more cosmetics but still if you wanted a '72 GTO station wagon, there were ways, it just had to be built in Framingham. Non-standard color ? "Foreman's friend" or "Class A".

Another sign of something odd: "route to engineering". But only if you have the billing record (follow the money).

So even with the best documentation, it may not match how the car left the factory. Often it was not something that could be bought, you either got it for free or you did not get it at all.

[KDirk]

Tom,

I will be interested in your 1991 full listing when complete, because I own a 1991 coupe and would like to see it's original factory data as listed by Compnine. Would also like the full list if you make it available. No rush, but please post here when you have finished parsing the data. I would gladly make some contribution towards your cost of subscription and ink for access to a downloadable copy.

I will not comment on any of the other action taking place in this thread, since I have no interest in picking fights or making enemies here; it is simply counterproductive for me to do so. I find this a helpful and enjoyable resource that is greatly valuable to my interest in owning and preserving Reattas, and would like it to remain so.

KDirk

[Guest steveskyhawk]

Like Kevin I would like to help out with the expenses related to the new database.

[Rawja]

I too have a subscription to compnine, kept hitting their free search limit.

I ran the VIN for the red-topped 'vert Barney provided.

Decoder shows the top as being garnet vinyl (76T).

Decoder shows car as one of 28 "pilot vehicles" (WD1).

Decoder lists 8,429 vehicles for '90 rather than the 8,515 production that is the accepted total production number.

RPO code breakdown shows 436 vehicles with trim/paint color override (D60), which if you do the math works out to approximately 5% of production being non-standard.

RPO code breakdown shows 20 vehicles as "engineering test vehicles" (YE8).

I think the data supports Padgett's and Tbenvie's observations about automobile production and also shows that compnine's information is not inerrant or wholly complete either.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Rawja (see edit history)

[wws944]

Three points:

1.) For those of you who have paid the $3.95 to get access to the CompNine database, it should not be hard to get a dump of each of the years it knows about. Just do a reverse search on cars with an option that every Reatta has (like power antenna). Slightly more fun would be to write a 'bot to access the http port directly and query all the VINs that were obtained. Sorry, but I don't have time right now. Maybe this summer - if someone hasn't beat me to it.

2.) CompNine is not complete either - especially for '88 and '89 cars where there is very little coverage. But I know of a case where a '90 Regal is shown with some incorrect information. Said car happens to sit in my driveway when my daughter is home from college. Been in the family since new, and I have all the original paperwork, window sticker, etc. Another is a '91 Reatta where CompNine does not know about the car. Yet I have seen recent ads for it, and it *does* appear in Barneys database, with correct details on color and options, with an entry dated from 2004. Understandably, the car had fewer miles on it in 2004 than it has today though.

3.) Quite a number of Reattas listed in CompNine have options like: RPO R6S - "CONTROL - SALES ITEM NO. 18". There is no description of what a CONTROL SALES ITEM is. Could be just about anything. But there are dozens of Reattas with these options.

Kevin: Just go to: Comprehensive Chevrolet, Saturn, GMC, Hummer, Cadillac, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Geo, Dodge, Plymouth, Jeep, Chrysler, Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Mazda Truck, Mercedes VIN Decoder and enter your VIN. Unfortunately, recently they seem to have really cranked down the number of free inquiries you can make per day. I guess it became a victim of its own success. Nonetheless, for $3.95/month you can make 20k inquiries/month.

I think it would be useful to merge Barneys database with the compnine database. Each has information that the other doesn't. Where there are conflicts, some manual intervention will be needed. While some might vote in favor of CompNine just due to personal prejudices, I'd like to remind them that, as noted above, I personally own a car with incorrect CompNine data.

[Barney Eaton]

I also notice the descrepency of 86 (1990) vehicles on the Compnine list.

It would be nice if you could somehow sort Compnine for a exterior color and get the interior color for comparison, this is where the D60 color override has come up before.

Example, If you have a 1990 bright red car with red (burgandy interior) D60 will be on the code list. The same with blue car with tan interior.

But without a sort option/choice Compnine will not give you that abiltiy .

[Booreatta]

In my attempt to challange any and all statements that are not correct, the statement was made above that Barney should resign from the Reatta Divisions tech advisor position. As the director of the Reatta division I want to make it clear that the Reatta Division does not have Tech Advisors. That program is managed by the Buick Club Of America. Any information issued by the TA is purely thru the BCA. You should be a member of the BCA to take advantage of the tech advisor. The advisors for most of the makes and models of Buick Production work free and it is a thankless job. I am sure I wouldnt want to do. We should thank them and not try to take them off at the knees. Please when you post make sure it is accurate.

Thanks again

Chuck Kerls

booreatta@cox.net

316-655-1099

[D Yaros]

I do not own a Reatta. I have an Allante. However, given the similar nature of the cars I follow the activity here. From a non-interested person's point of view, let it be known I winced at digesting the vindictiveness in this thread, and felt sorry for the Reatta gang in having to see/read it.

Just my 2 cents -