Not accurate restoration...shame or not

[Dauphinee]

I am new to this forum. Reason why is I have never had a reason to visit this site until now. I just purchased a 1936 Pontiac Deluxe Silver Streak 36-3819.

Descent looking and running car. Going thru some of the paperwork that came with the car it looks like it had a restoration in the early 80's and thru past owners went thru some neglect...

I purchased it because I love the look of the 30's cars. The car seems to have gone thru a bunch of different colors in it's past.

So here is the question. I am considering painting the car two-tone. Pewter with Cranberry fenders/running boards. Changing the tired interior (not original) to Grey.

I will be leaving the original motor and other items in the car. Just need to find some parts to update and get some things working...wipers/gas gauge/odometer.

What do you guys think?

I am building it to be a driver not a trailer or museum queen.

[West Peterson]

Welcome to the AACA forum. You might want to think about joining our national club, and or a local region.

Being a club about original or authentically restored cars, you'll probably get some flack about your modifications. However, it doesn't sound like you're doing anything that can't be brought back to original specs. It's your car, it's going to be a driver... I say have fun. Do you have some photos to post?

[Steve Braverman]

Paint is very expensive. To paint it a non-authentic color would not be very wise.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Welcome to the forum! Last year, I bought a 1937 Pontiac deluxe, and it too had been restored a number of years back that didn't really do exactly what I believe should have been done. My car is definately NOT a trailer queen, and I really do not have any desire to enter it in any competitions in the forseeable future. I bought mine to drive it and have fun. My car is now green (previous owner) but the original color was black. In time, I hope to redo what needs to be done, but these are a bunch of little thing, nothing big, except for the paint. Mine too has the original motor and transmission, and I never plan on replacing them.

I believe what West was referring to, was making changes that can not easily be reversed. You know, like having the top "chopped", and replacing all the subframe with modern parts. What you are decribing can easily be reversed if ever desired. I'm with you, I just love the look of the 1930s cars.

One suggestion I would make though, any "updating" you do to your car, be sure and keep all the original parts. I you ever decide to sell it in the future, this will definately help with the sale to someone who likes their cars original.

Edited April 24, 2011 by bofusmosby (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

I think you should do what you want with it. It's not a particularly rare or valuable car, so have fun.

That said, however, I'm in the camp that says old cars with modern paint colors never look quite right. Even if everything is stock, the modern "pewter" finish (which I presume has a lot of metallic in it) will look like a hot rod. Period-correct colors usually look "right" and modern paints typically look "wrong." Case in point:

versus

Metallics didn't exist until the late 1930s, and even then they were vastly different than today's metallic paints, with much smaller and less dense particles. It was well into the 1950s before stuff like we see on today's cars was available from a manufacturer. Most cars of your Pontiac's vintage were solid colors without metallics, and by 1936 most had fenders and bodies painted the same color. Two-tone cars usually had the break between the colors somewhere other than body/fenders as was common on earlier cars. My '41 Buick, for instance, had a belt line used as the break between the colors, and painting the fenders a different color than the body would look ridiculous.

On the other hand, if that's what you like, I'm glad you're enjoying the car and think it's awesome that you're getting it out on the road. Have fun, that's all that really matters.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Matt Harwood
typo (see edit history)

[Dauphinee]

Well I found the color of the original color and the stamp on the body.

It shows the car as being Silver Streak Gray Metalic. Paint 26D

Thought a different splash of color would help it out a little. Break up the whole car color. I wasn't thinking of the Newer Metalics being as said above they have a lot of flake in them. Something with a muted color.

Here is a pic of the car as it sits today.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

One can certainly see why you want to paint it. Nothing about the paint as sits in the photo is correct or even remotely attractive.

If you are just wanting the car to be a weekend driver to enjoy, don't worry about what others might think about the colors you choose. But for heaven's sake don't let it end up with more gloss than will look right on the car, it won't look right at all.

Jim

[Barry Wolk]

I like big cars in dark colors. It hides the door and hood gaps and makes the body flow better visually.

Nice car. Interesting transition period.

[Guest dokks6t9]

Your car, your money... Paint it any color you want.

[Guest Dave Boyer]

Your car, your money... Paint it any color you want.

X2!!

[Dauphinee]

From what I have in pictures over the years the original color was grey metalic...then at some time it was painted all green metalic...then in early 80's got painted as you see it now. The faded color is actually off yellow/cream. I asked it's previous owner and that is how he purchased it but the owner before him had let it sit outside with no cover for about 3 years.

So this summer I will be living with these colors...then as the summer goes by it will eventually be covered with spots of primer to start working on the rusty areas.

The final colors will not be the high gloss colors of today's cars/hot rods. I don't think that would look right. We are looking at an older pewter color. More of a grey and the red will be closer to maroon.

I am looking for a paint chip of the original color to see what that actually looked like.

By looks of the numbers the car was built late 1936.

[West Peterson]

Metallics didn't exist until the late 1930s, and even then they were vastly different than today's metallic paints, with much smaller and less dense particles.

Only half right, Matt. Metallic paints came about in 1927, and Cadillac was the first. You are right, though, you practically have to use a magnifying glass to see the metallic in the original paints of the late '20s and '30s.

[Guest Kingoftheroad]

Your car, your money... Paint it any color you want.

Ditto.....

[Rusty_OToole]

Once you see some old cars painted their original colors, anything else never looks right. I first noticed this on certain fifties cars, they originally came in pastel colors or certain eye popping 2 tone and 3 tone combos. Newer metallic colors never look right on them. Also, I think whoever picked the colors for the old air cooled VW beetle was a little bit color blind. Their colors never look like anybody else's. VWs especially never look right in any other color.

It is true, most 30s cars were painted black, gray or dark blue. But there were other colors available.

[Guest]

Once you see some old cars painted their original colors, anything else never looks right. I first noticed this on certain fifties cars, they originally came in pastel colors or certain eye popping 2 tone and 3 tone combos. Newer metallic colors never look right on them. Also, I think whoever picked the colors for the old air cooled VW beetle was a little bit color blind. Their colors never look like anybody else's. VWs especially never look right in any other color.

It is true, most 30s cars were painted black, gray or dark blue. But there were other colors available.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Rusty, you hit the nail on the head with that one, especially VW's and I might add to that. Beetles painted with a paint of different years don't look right either. A 1964-66 L-360 sea blue looks terrible on say a 1950.

I think this topic ask the wrong question. If you restore a car it means back to original, and if you modify a car your not restoring it.

Don

[Guest bkazmer]

Overall, i agree with the"it's your car" statement. But I take it you asked for opinion.

Metallics and pearlescents (two different things) did exist by the time of your car. I'm not sure they were available on your car. As stated earlier, the 30's metallics are more subtle - not just in flake level but especially flake size. The older metallics are finer than most modern colors. If you use a big flake paint, be aware that it is an immediate flag that says inauthentic. You are free to reply "I don't care!"

Factory two toning was offered where there were color breaks designed in. It was generally use before your car when fenders were more separated and after when body lines created breaks ( 1940's). Do a little homework and find out , if it was offered, what color combinations were offered, as not all factory colors were offered in the two-tone combinations.

Use chips for thinking but not for matching. They, and original formulae, are not an accurate way to get new paint made. Period.

So I would say inform yourself and make the decision that suits you. In general, the "look" of your car's era was monotone streamlining.

[West Peterson]

The car is too new to be two-toned also. There may be some rare instances of one being two-toned from the factory (or dealer) but basically it is incorrect to have different colored fenders.

[Guest bkazmer]

another thought. Pontiac styling in the 30's liked to use chrome and paint in combination rather than all chrome grilles. The center then tied into the silver streak. You may want to consider a color that accentuates this interesting (and I think attractive) feature.

[Guest]

another thought. Pontiac styling in the 30's liked to use chrome and paint in combination rather than all chrome grilles. The center then tied into the silver streak. You may want to consider a color that accentuates this interesting (and I think attractive) feature.

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The inside color of silver streak styling is always body color.

D.

[Guest bkazmer]

I meant that the side portions of the grille were painted but that the chrome and paint center swept back down the hood. You are of course right on the alternating paint and chrome. Pontiac folks usually get this correct - 41 Packards are often seen without the paint on the catwalks between the raised chrome.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Not wanting to high-jack this thread, but you have brought up a very important question I have. Speaking of the painted areas between the chrome, the painted area of the hood ornament, and the painted areas between the chrome, should this area be the same color as the car body? My car was originally black, but was repainted green by the previous owner. By looking at various photos of the Pontiacs of the mid to later 30s, these areas are either painted black, or red. Which is correct? BTW, on the many photos I have seen, the body color is neither of these (black or red). On some of these restored cars, this area is (appears to be) chrome.

I have included a few photos that will show what I mean.

[Guest]

Not wanting to high-jack this thread, but you have brought up a very important question I have. Speaking of the painted areas between the chrome, the painted area of the hood ornament, and the painted areas between the chrome, should this area be the same color as the car body? My car was originally black, but was repainted green by the previous owner. By looking at various photos of the Pontiacs of the mid to later 30s, these areas are either painted black, or red. Which is correct? BTW, on the many photos I have seen, the body color is neither of these (black or red). On some of these restored cars, this area is (appears to be) chrome.

I have included a few photos that will show what I mean.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have seen red in bumpers and always surrounding the chief's head, also red in 49-50 eight cylinder script (actually the two dots in the eight). Also red in the body side molding where it says Pontiac or Pontiac Eight like on a 41. Red paint in the chrome Pontiac Eight script that bolts to the front grille of a 35.

http://assets.hemmings.com/uimage/7207333-425-0.jpg?rev=1

[Guest bofusmosby]

Helfen

I too have seen the red on these cars, but what is the correct color? My car is a '37 Pontiac, and I have seen black, red, green and chrome. Does the color of the body determine which color was originally used? When I do mine, I'd like it to be correct for my car. Of course, the color of my car is NOT an original color, so if the areas of the chrome, or between the chrome are supposed to be the color of the body of the car, does this mean that I should paint these areas green to match the auto body? For example, I have seen the artillery rims painted red, but in most cases, the car was black. Well, the previous owner when he painte the car, he also painted the wheel rims green to match the car. Which would be correct?

[sambarn]

So as far as the car being too early for fenders being different colors I have to beg to differ. the car in question is a 36 and this is the factory paint scheme on my 34 chevrolet and 1911 Hudson 33 both include Black fenders and different body color. The Marmons always had different color fenders from the beginning of the model 34 in 1916 through the end of production with the sixteens(Yes the HCM prototype had one color paint scheme but...) in 33. But everyone is right that about 1936 most fenders were painted body color until the chrome body lines in the fifties ( I think - I'm a little 50s ignorant).

Dauphinee, Paint it how you like, just make sure the prep work is done well to protect the vehicle and enjoy it, personally I think one color would look best but, I'm with the guys above who can tell ( and are bothered by) when a color or paint scheme is incorrect.

Bofusmosby - my 34 Chevy has the alternating paint/chrome on the grille and on all the 34s I've seen, the grille detail paint (painted over the chrome on every other upright), is black. Maybe all Pontiacs had that color scheme on the grille?? At least in 37 maybe...

Edited April 26, 2011 by sambarn
add photo (see edit history)

[Guest]

Helfen

I too have seen the red on these cars, but what is the correct color? My car is a '37 Pontiac, and I have seen black, red, green and chrome. Does the color of the body determine which color was originally used? When I do mine, I'd like it to be correct for my car. Of course, the color of my car is NOT an original color, so if the areas of the chrome, or between the chrome are supposed to be the color of the body of the car, does this mean that I should paint these areas green to match the auto body? For example, I have seen the artillery rims painted red, but in most cases, the car was black. Well, the previous owner when he painte the car, he also painted the wheel rims green to match the car. Which would be correct?

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Jim, first I want to correct what I said about the silver streak. I do know the cars were painted between the streaks in body color at least from 1940-1952 & 54. the 35-36's appear to be black. I do have a couple of pictures of 37's, 38's, 39's & 53 (factory black & white) of cars that show I think black in between the streaks. If I were you I would contact AACA's Oakland/Pontiac chapter and see if they can help just to make sure you are correct.

Don

Edited April 26, 2011 by helfen (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

...as far as the car being too early for fenders being different colors I have to beg to differ. the car in question is a 36 and this is the factory paint scheme on my 34 chevrolet and 1911 Hudson 33 both include Black fenders and different body color. .... But everyone is right that about 1936 most fenders were painted body color ...

..

Sam

You've contradicted yourself, here.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I would agree that non modern, monotone preferably in a correct for the year rather than random color choice would be your best bet for both appearance and possible resale, but here is another suggestion. You mention you are new to the car (maybe new to prewar cars in general) and it looks pretty good now. I would say to sort it mechanically, get your tires, etc. and enjoy it this season, then after getting used to the car as well as thinking on it more, you could make your decision with less chance of regret. Paint is reversable, but expensive.

For what it's worth, I would stick with bias ply (in answer to your other post); plenty good enough for the car's capabilities unless you were to modify it. You will get lots of opinions here also, but I just think radials don't look right on these cars even when they are the high end ones companies like Coker produce.

If you are buying tires soon and planning on attending the Rhinebeck show in a couple weeks, you could pre-order from Universal who I have had great luck with. (surely Coker is fine also, but this way you save shipping..)

Congrats on your find, BTW, looks like a nice start.

[Dauphinee]

Steve I may take your suggestion. I might not go for the full on paint job this year. But I will have to address the bad paint and rust areas before they become a real problem.

There is some wood areas in the doors and newer temp rug to be addressed.

But overall the car is in good shape. So this summer it might end up looking like a spotted leopard. Sand...clean...primer...Then sit back and think about paint.

The car is on the road and road worthy. Just need to fix a few things and away we go. It might look like a rat rod right now but sometimes there is a silver lining at the end of the rainbow.

A little wood...some fabric material...some paint....and glass and it could be back in shape in a little bit.

[Guest bkazmer]

Go to some meets and see different authentic colors on the same/similar cars. I was "sure " I knew the color I wanted on one car until after a few car shows I saw something I liked so much better.

[Seldenguy]

Choosing a color can be the most agonizing thing you will encounter on a auto restoration. The color is the first eye draw to the vehicle, it is like looking at a well dressed man, the color and fit of his suit draw your eye first. Then you look at his accessories, shirt, tie, shoes, etc. A car is the same, after the color comes the interior and top, then the wheels and bright work. Look around and satisfy yourself and your choice will be justfied. Good luck, I have been on that mission several times.--Bob

[dodgedh2]

I vote for a period correct color. You will know that it's correct, and if you should ever decide to sell, potential buyers won't be turned off by a "modern" color scheme. I don't know if you are aware of this site (AutoColorLibrary). You can access original color schemes and color samples here. They also sell the paint.

Auto Color Library - The World's Largest Online Color-Chip Library

I looked up 1936 Pontiac and didn't see your paint code. Below are the 1936 Pontiac pages.

[Dauphinee]

Well being as this is going to be a family car and the wife gave the green light to purchase it she is in on the color.

You might be happy to know we are now looking at changing the color to a dark cherry/deep maroon color for the car.

Not exactly one of the factory colors but I think dark enough for the period.

[West Peterson]

Is the "maroon" on the color chart not dark enough?

[Dauphinee]

I don't know if it not dark enough for the wife. We shall see when it finally comes down to going to the paint store and getting the chips out and looking to see what is what..

This is eventually going to be a car for me and the wife and her opinion is just as good as mine.

[Guest dokks6t9]

My wife picked out the color for our 69 Nova, black sapphire metallic, and we've never looked back. It's a stock GM color, and I can go to any Advance Auto and get a rattle can for it. The color also is a close copy of what was used in 1969.

[Matt Harwood]

Be sure to look at the paint chips in the sunlight, no in the store. The amount of metallic and the actual shade changes quite a bit. I recall we had a huge paint book at the shop where I used to work, and there was page after page of colors with holes in the middle of each paint chip where you could put it over the car and see if it matched. The differences between two seemingly similar colors would only be apparent when we went outside and into the direct sun.

If possible, attend some car shows and look at the colors until you find one that you like on a car with a shape similar to your Pontiac. That will give you a better idea of how it will look on your car.

[Dauphinee]

Matt, I totally agree with checking out similar body styles and paint schemes. I thought I had a set color and found a similar body and the color I thought I would like...didn't like it.

It is going to take a while before I actually pick a color.

Got to do the body work and definately some wood work after investigation this weekend.