alsancle Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Here is before and after in almost the exact same spot. Pre Restoration is around 1982 and post restoration would be about 6 to 8 years later. These days this car would never never have been touched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 A couple of chassis pictures of a 540k. The 500k is very similar. Note the double rear springs on the rear swing axle suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 A first series 540k Cabriolet B. This car was on eBay a few years ago. Very very nice mostly original car with right hand drive. I'm not sure what happened to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) This is an ultra rare 320n Combination Coupe. There are only 2 known to my knowledge plus a few more of the Cabriolet A model floating around. The hardtop is removable and there is a conventional soft top. The Cabriolet A has the fully padded double top with irons. This car is for sale btw. Edited February 11, 2011 by alsancle (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) This second series 540k Cabriolet A was for sale for 500k in 2000 as a very old restoration. Presentable but needing a lot of work. The first picture is from around 2003. It sold at auction a couple of different times and then had a very (very) high dollar restoration shown in the other picture. Edited February 11, 2011 by alsancle (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 The Caracciola car that I posted a photo above of is a 500K special coupe and didn't have plaid interior when new or when I last saw it, but maybe did somewhere inbetween. Maybe he had another one that you are thinking of. The rear treatment of this car is very nice - better in person than in photos.You can see the interior in this factory shot and it does not look plaid. This car carries a subtle version of special roadster wings (fenders). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Here is a 36 500k second series special roadster. The first series 540k and second series 500k are indistinguishable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverghost Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) I have always wanted to own a special roadster ~~~The famous hidden Butcher's car comes to mind .To me it has one of the most artistic flowing body designs to come from Mercedes of all time ! A true German work of art . Was not much of the steel rusted thin in spots~~~So much so that it qute a bit had to be re-created ? There was also a copy of this body re-created in the 90s~~~ I have a body panel beating & forming book written by one of the guys who re-created this copy.There are several great photos of the finished , and yet to be painted body in this book ! Does anyone know where this copy went ? Supposedly a member of the Krupp family also owned a similar roadster when new ? Lets not forget some of the great deigns built for the German high government officials in the 30s ! Despite their past checkered Nazi ownership history you still must say that they are great auto designs ! The special roadster is on my top ten wish list ! Perhapps some day~~~~? Edited February 11, 2011 by Silverghost (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Brad, There have been more than a few exact replica special roadsters built. The real ones are well known. Prices for those seem to be over 6 million now.I will post some pictures of the Krupp car and the butchers car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 AJ, great photo of the special roadster at the 36 auto show. I think Jan told me that it was silver grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Is the 320 a combinations coupe? What is the asking price of that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Is the 320 a combinations coupe? What is the asking price of that one?This is an unrestored but complete car. I updated the description to the correct "combination coupe" moniker. Restored 320 long wheel base cars are going for 500 to 600k now. I would think that this car restored would be more then that. I'll pm you the details . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Here is one of the very few 540ks made with the 500k Cab A body. Or, maybe more accurately, 500k chassis and body with a 540k engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Any photos of an SSKL? I saw one once in a garage in Mass many years ago, any Ideas where it went? Photos? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Ed,Do you remember where and when? I was not aware of a real SSK in our area. I didn't think any or maybe one or two of the drilled cars survived. I have some decent S & SS pictures I should dig up. My dad was underbidder on the 4k miles from new SS at the Byrd estate auction back in the early 60s. He only brought 5k and the car went for 5100. We were talking about that A.K. Miller auction in another thread but the Byrd estate auction was arguably the greatest estate sale of all time.A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Ballard 35R Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Is Bob Bahre's an SS or SSK? For some reason I was thinking the latter but I haven't seen the car for about ten years. Also, the beautiful Mercedes that used to belong to DePedroso (sp?) in the Philadelphia area. What a fantastic machine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Is Bob Bahre's an SS or SSK? For some reason I was thinking the latter but I haven't seen the car for about ten years. Also, the beautiful Mercedes that used to belong to DePedroso (sp?) in the Philadelphia area. What a fantastic machine!Bob's car is an original SSK. I'm not sure of when or where he acquired it. He has one of the great private collections in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Ballard 35R Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Agreed that the Bahre collection is outstanding; however, having recently been through the Collier Collection I have a new appreciation for great collections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Here is a link to a full picture spread of Bob Bahre's collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 A factory photo of a second series 540k Cabriolet A. Note the painted spokes with the chrome plated weight covers. A distinctive look to MB and specifically 540k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 This is an interesting one. This car was owned by Opera Singer James Melton in the 1940s. I have a number of pictures of it at the Indy 500 one year. It is a Cab "A" body with Cab "C" doors and Special Roadster fenders. I also believe I have pictures of it in the 1980s minus the fender skirts. There was a similar car sold at the RM London auction sale in 2007. They may in fact be the same car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) AlI'm going to guess that they're different cars, based on the location of the spare tires, different taillights, skirts, parking lights, turn signals, size of the elbow joint on the laundau bars, etc. The "history" of the auction car is unknown before 1995.I saw a similar car in the Mercedes-Benz collection "vault" in Germany about 8-10 years ago, which I think may still be there, also with the Special Roadster features. That may make three cars like this in existence. Edited February 14, 2011 by West Peterson (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Hmmm, a supercharged MB with no history? Pretty much impossible. The records exist in incredible detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I agree, just repeating what the auction info says. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 AlI'm going to guess that they're different cars, based on the location of the spare tires, different taillights, skirts, parking lights, turn signals, size of the elbow joint on the laundau bars, etc. The "history" of the auction car is unknown before 1995.I saw a similar car in the Mercedes-Benz collection "vault" in Germany about 8-10 years ago, which I think may still be there, also with the Special Roadster features. That may make three cars like this in existence.Yeah, I guess the spare location was a give away. That will teach me to throw this stuff up on the fly. I'll dig out the pictures I have of it in green because that car has the sidemounts and I believe it's the same one. They both have a number of similar features however.MB has all the historical data on the Sindelfingen built 500k/540k lines. That includes a build sheet that will give you the body color and interior color and sometimes additional details. Also in most cases they know the original owner and date of delivery. For the Mannheim built cars which I think is most 320 models and below, they do not have that information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 I agree, just repeating what the auction info says. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?If the owner does not go through the effort to get the information from MB the auction company cannot do it as MB will not release the records to anyone other than the owner (who must prove they are the owner).In general the auction company just parrots what the seller says. In this case, Bernie Ecclestone owned a bunch of cars and it is possible he never got around to it.I personally would not buy a car without knowing the full history, however I think this car is legit. Although very fancy, it's not exactly the body someone would cobble up from scratch. I just have to think that if someone was going to go to all that trouble (many years ago) then they would have built a full special roadster replica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 If the owner does not go through the effort to get the information from MB the auction company cannot do it as MB will not release the records to anyone other than the owner (who must prove they are the owner).In general the auction company just parrots what the seller says. In this case, Bernie Ecclestone owned a bunch of cars and it is possible he never got around to it.I personally would not buy a car without knowing the full history, however I think this car is legit. Although very fancy, it's not exactly the body someone would cobble up from scratch. I just have to think that if someone was going to go to all that trouble (many years ago) then they would have built a full special roadster replica.I would have to agree, but clearly RM didn't care to look into this. For the money they made on that sale they could have put some effort into it. Ecclestone may not have had the time, but he could have had someone research it for him. I think MB would cooperate with him. These cars don't just pop up out of thin air.From my understanding, the records on almost all of the prewar cars exist, but some are in bad shape, or not organized and in could be in different locations and the historical dept may not even know how to find them as they are much more into the records from the 50s and newer. I know that MB won't release a lot of info because they think that people will build cars to match serial numbers, which of course has happened with other makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 I would have to agree, but clearly RM didn't care to look into this. For the money they made on that sale they could have put some effort into it. Ecclestone may not have had the time, but he could have had someone research it for him. I think MB would cooperate with him. These cars don't just pop up out of thin air.From my understanding, the records on almost all of the prewar cars exist, but some are in bad shape, or not organized and in could be in different locations and the historical dept may not even know how to find them as they are much more into the records from the 50s and newer. I know that MB won't release a lot of info because they think that people will build cars to match serial numbers, which of course has happened with other makes.I agree with what you are saying with regards to tracking down the info. You would think on a million dollar plus car somebody would have spent the 20 minutes to send the form to MB. Btw, I believe that car is pictured in period on Page 68 of Jan's first book.It would be great if you could get info on some of the lesser models. I didn't think this was possible. With 320 Cab A bodied cars going for 500k plus I think the temptation to build a few is out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Here is an unrestored 1934 500k Tourenwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Here is a rather rough 500k Cabriolet "B". I recall that back around 2001/2002 Leo Gepart was brokering a very similar car that was located down in the South East U.S.A. The asking price was around 150k and I believe the car was sold off to Germany. It could be this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Here is a diagram from the owner's manual of the 500k/540k fuel system. It is very very complex with the necessity to pressurize the fuel system above the 7psi that the blower puts on to the carburetor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 A row of nice looking 500k/540k/770k at 2006 Meadowbrook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Here is a long wheelbase 320 Cabriolet "A". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbbuick22 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Tom Mix had a 320, and Arnie Goff did a lot restoration on it in the 80's. I think it went back to Germany. I don't have any pics of it, Arnie might. I remember the windshield frames got lost during plating and Tom was not happy. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Great thread A.J. - sorry I can't contribute as everything I know about these cars is in this thread BUT now I will know about the updates.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) Great thread A.J. - sorry I can't contribute as everything I know about these cars is in this thread BUT now I will know about the updates.... Thanks Steve. I have an strong affinity for these cars. They were different than anything else made during the classic era. Edited May 25, 2013 by alsancle spelling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 540k first series Cabriolet "C". One of 2 or 3 right hand drives built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 500K Carbriolet "A". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) I posted this (the text, the picture was not mine) in another forum so I'll take the liberty of copying it to here:Differences between a 500k & 540k.Mostly, the 500k has hood lovers and the 540k chromed screens. But, some late 500ks were delivered with the hood screens and some of the 540ks were delivered with the 500k style louvers so that is not a hard and fast rule. Besides the different body styles, there were a number of minor differences between the chassis:1. The 540k had .4 liter bigger displacement.2. The 540k had larger jets in the carburetor.3. The 540k had slightly longer wheelbase and track.4. The location of the intake and exhaust manifold are reversed.5. The 540k had a complex mercury driven shock & anti-sway system in the rear.6. The 540k had a slightly larger exhaust pipe existing through the chassis.7. The 540k had a different air cleaner (or silencer).8. The gearing of the transmission and rear end are different.9. The 540k tended to have twin exhaust pipes and the 500k single, however there were 500ks built with twin and 540ks built with single.I'm sure there are a couple of others I'm forgetting.Other then that the cars are practically identical and have basically the same performance as the additional horsepower of the 540k engine is offset by the additional weight of the larger chassis. Edited March 7, 2011 by alsancle (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 This is a great car. If it was mine I would be really tempted to put a black leather top on it.500K Carbriolet "A". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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