How to do a frame on restoration?

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

"Politically correct" is a common affliction of inhabitants of 'The People's Republic of Austin (TX)'...believe me I'm trying to wean him off the Kool-Aid.

Now that is funny! way to go, Willie.

Ben

[1957buickjim]

Willie, do you think you can get Mike to request asylum in some foreign country (maybe Tarrant County?) and go through a de-processing therapy involving the Shiner Bock treatment? With you on the case, I know we have the best man on it! Good Luck!

[buick5563]

Keep tryin' :

http://forums.aaca.org/f115/austin-hippie-249722.html

[buick man]

Good advice, thank you. I was visioning a possible access from the trunk with the side panel removed but that of course would be too easy and not in proper form as a "good engineering" approach to the situation. Instead, obviously a multi socketed forearm is obviously your best bet and I should of known better than to ask in the first place.

Seriously, my exhaust system is completely out at this time and I would like to attempt this without removing the bumper but I can see where that would make life easier. Well at least now I know a proper attack strategy so with that in mind I figure perhaps a 12 inch extension with a U-joint long barrel socket may just do the trick. I have been soaking that nut up there for a few months and think it may go. Yes, will take it nice and easy so as to not spin and break anything.

[1957buickjim]

David, you have it right..taking the bumper off will definitely help, that is for sure. The liberal soaking of the area with the penetrating oil will help as well. Unless your trunk area is totally different then mine, there is no access to anything in there except a spare tire and your luggage. Maybe if you cut an access hole in there, it would really make it much easier to remove the tail light. But then again, why take the easy way when you can take the only, and much more difficult way, Dr. Jones......

[1957buickjim]

Mike,

Now you have me really questioning your overall perspective on things...Austin Hippie...guns...manual labor...???? I think this will need to be discussed over some Woodford Reserve, Buick Backfire Smoke Bier, and some sort of charred meat....You definitely have the correct tendencies...political correctness is not usually associated with the one you possess...Do you have any one that works in the legal field associated with you? Your responses sound like you could have legalitis...just my simple opinion..

[buick5563]

No lawyers anywhere near me, Jim.

Before Buickman and Rob McD showed up, I tried to be the ultimate pontificator. They showed me

Twixt you and I, I can't be pigeonholed into merely one side of any argument, and I've never done anything that somebody else "suggested" I do.

Back to U-jointed elbows attached to three foot forearms...

[Guest Rob McDonald]

I've had my scrawny arms up inside those blunt tailfins, eke-ing rusty nuts out, 1/12th turn at a time. There was nothing remotely pontiff-like in that undignified position.

Why do we insist on doing these most awkward chores by ourselves? Wifey might hold the other wrench for a little while but she won't stand for the blue air cussing when the ratchet slips or a stud breaks.

Eventually, I'll be going through these contortions all over again because I found a much nicer taillight housing at a swap meet a while back. While I won't be fighting as much corrosion next time, my personal flexibility has declined considerably since I last tried this. Maybe I'll just make a desk lamp out of the taillight instead.

[1957buickjim]

And a nice desk lamp that will be...I have heard that yoga improves flexibility....so does a dozen Blue Lights!!

[Topper1961]

Hi Jim!

First of all, thanks for sharing your experience with all of us "Nailheads"!

This seems to be a really good idea. I like to ask - What is the most noticeable improvements in the car after installing this material? and did you use inside the door, toward the firewall etc as well?

Thanks!

Joern

1957 Buick Century Model 63 & Model 66R

Ken,

Thanks for the kind words. It is coming along, trying to get it done for Nationals this year. For the floor (and roof as well) I used a material called ez cool.(EZ Cool Automotive Insulation heat barrier and noise reduction for cars, trucks, classic cars, street rods and much more). Was very easy to install and seems to work pretty well. I bought the 4 x 50 ft roll, and did the floor pan as well as reinsulated under the headliner (scraped off all of the tar paperish insulation) that was on the underside of the roof. The EZ Cool stuff is easy to cut with scissors and easy to form and glue down. Seams are joined using aluminum tape (like you use with furnace ducting - not duct tape, the metal kind). That will really work better than the jute padding, and it does not absorb water and is thinner than the jute. Hope this helps.

Mike,

Good to hear that you have done this before..It is always easier when you have a bit more experience on these types of projects. I wish you well on this journey. It definitely is a fun one!

Jim

[1957buickjim]

Joern,

I did not use it on the doors or the firewall. I purchaced a molded firewall from CARS, which is a thermoplastic, grained item, heavier than the cardboard / fibreboard that was original. Fit like a glove, and had a decent amount of insulation on it . Just used it (EZ Cool Insulation) on the floor and the roof. It does help keep the road noise from outside the vehicle down, on the interior, as well as the keeping the floor cooler under the muffler on the passenger side (I only have single exhaust on my Special). I did think about using it on the inside of the doors, and may still well do that, but not until later. I will really find out how well it works when I drive it Old Bessie to Charlotte, NC for Nationals this June.

Edited May 13, 2012 by 1957buickjim
clarification. (see edit history)

[Topper1961]

Thanks Jim!

Really good and valuable comments, I look in to the thermoplastic firewall.

Joern

1957 Buick Century Model 63 & Model 66R

[1957buickjim]

Well, it has been a few weeks, and Buick Nationals is looming in the not so distant future, so I thought I better get my rear in gear and start phase four of the Frame On Restoration project. Better known as lie on your back, get crud in your face and eyes, ruin clothing and work until all hours of the morning to not have anybody really see what you have done. Yes, it was time to do the chassis and underside of Old Bessie, commonly referred to the "greezy side of the car!"

Right off the bat, many thanks to Mike, Willie, Matt, and Vickie Blue for all the encouragement on tackling this part of it. What a beast.

Here are some pictures of what I started with. I was fortunate enough not to have too much undercoating on the bottom of the car.

Power washed it at the car wash, and of course, you need the right selection of sharp scrapy objects for this job!

Edited June 3, 2012 by 1957buickjim (see edit history)

[bhclark]

Are those before or after pics? lol!

That looks cleaner than the underside of any of my cars!

[Smartin]

That was by far the dirtiest part of the job on my 58 so far. And the body was 4 feet in the air for me.

[1957buickjim]

Brian,

Those are before pictures, but after I went to the quarter car wash and spent $8.00 on degreasing the underside. I had quite a bit of grease and goo from a trans leak that had coated the underside of the car. I was pretty fortunate that the car did not have much undercoating on it in most of the areas.

Adam,

I really would have enjoyed 4 feet in the air for the body. I had about 20" to work with under the car. Even though it looked clean, it was still a pain to wire brush and scrape.

Anyway, while I was under the car, I figured I would fix a few things under there, like the transmission thrust pad. There original was pretty bad. The torque ball seal and the torque tube prop shaft seal also needed to be replaced because of some serious leaking.

[Guest Killerbunny]

"Politically correct" is a common affliction of inhabitants of 'The People's Republic of Austin (TX)'...believe me I'm trying to wean him off the Kool-Aid.

lol..Tumbs up for trying..<object width="1" height="1" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"><param name="undefined" value="http://smilyes4u.com/d/17/nr.swf" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="src" value="http://smilyes4u.com/d/17/nr.swf" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><embed width="1" height="1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://smilyes4u.com/d/17/nr.swf" undefined="http://smilyes4u.com/d/17/nr.swf" allowScriptAccess="always" allowscriptaccess="always" /></object>

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Are those before or after pics? lol!

That looks cleaner than the underside of any of my cars!

Agreed! Just spray on the rust converter.

Ben

[1957buickjim]

Ben,

You are so right..I did scrape the chunks of rust off the frame and wire wheeled to bottom, wiped it all down with lacquer thinner and then hit it with the rust converter..But I am getting ahead of myself. First order of business was to remove the rear axle asembly and fix the leaking transmission seals.

Thanks to everyone on the forum who has done that before, the posts and threads on removing the torque tube were invaluable. It was not as difficult as I thought, but doing it as a one man job did have its challenges.

Surprisingly enough, all the bolts broke free, and of course, using liberal amounts of PB blaster doesn't hurt, either. I did keep the car perfectly level on the jack stands, and that is the amount of room that I had under the car to work on it. I think it was about 18" or so.

Here are some photos of the torque tube removal, the 1957Buickjim way. Enjoy.

[Guest 4 bufords]

make sure you have the car jacked up safely.my 57 super fell of the jack as i was lowering it back down.couldn't get out of the way and the car broke my right leg.that happened feburary 23rd,just starting to walk on it. see you in charlotte,4 bufords from ct

[1957buickjim]

I am sorry to hear that is how you broke your leg..I had it securely jacked up on 6 ton jackstands on 4 points. The scariest thing was when you are lifting the rear end / tourque tube up to get it level to pull it out and the rear of the car is just resting on the springs for those few short moments until you can lower it down. I am looking forward to seein you in Charlotte as well.

[1957buickjim]

Here it the culprit out of the car and in the driveway. Once I got it out of the car, I sprayed it with industrial degreaser..some purple stuff from Home Depot, and then hit is hard with the power washer to get all the topside gunk off. It cleaned up pretty well, prior to the major surgery it was about to undertake.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Ooo, I get a dull clammy feeling in the pit of my stomach, looking at the underside of your Old Bessie. I really do hate getting under a car, no matter how many stout jackstands are holding it up. Long ago, some car club friends and I had shares in a big car trailer. Over time, it was getting shabby and we decided to get to together one weekend to give it a good cleanup and rebuild the running gear.

We had access to a shop that had an overhead bridge crane. Once we got the top of the trailer wire-wheeled and nicely painted, we decided to flip it over using the crane and do the underside, too. As the trailer was dangling in mid-air, the chain broke.

I was knocked to the floor but was saved being crushed because I happened to be standing next to a heavy table saw. The trailer frame smashed the cast iron table of the saw but I was okay, just badly bruised. Thankfully, no one else was struck.

Since then, I can practically see the latent energy radiating out of anything big that could potentially fall on me, if something was to fail. When I occasionally have to inspect work on construction sites, everybody laughs at me because I'm standing a block away from any active cranes.

It may be an unreasonable fear but I have no intention of overcoming it.

[1957buickjim]

Rob, I am with you on that. I am not one to play with safety on stuff like that. I have heard too many stories, like yours and 4bufords about stuff falling / moving etc and people getting hurt or worse. I like to err on the side of really safe. Once the rear diff and torque tube were removed, the car was quite securely set up on the jack stands, each with a rated weight of 6000 lbs, positioned at secure points, with the car perfectly level front to rear. I was always aware of the safety and need to be alert and aware of any changes in the surroundings.

Once I got the rear end / torque tube out and washed off, it was time for major surgery to repair the leak. The way it was leaking, I wasn't sure if it needed a turniquet to stop it. Apparently, 3 quarts of transmission fluid are not supposed to be hiding in the torque tube. The Hylomar M shown is a non-setting sealant, so I thought it was a good application for that material to seal between the forward and rear torque tube and spacer plate, just as a precaution. Here are photos of the operation.

[bhclark]

I am SO not looking forward to this job! But, I am glad many have gone before me and documented it so well.

Great pics....keep it coming Jim!

[Guest 54fins]

Looks like you got lucky, the car was not undercoated. Must be a texas car. I'm doing a frame on also, had the car been undercoated this just would not work. The undercoat is a bear to remove and all you find under it is rust.

The big issue I ran into was detailing the engine. The front clip has to be off, but I wanted to start the car. rigged up a radiator support. It's easier to remove 50 year old grease off a hot engine. I also pulled the heads and did a minor top end, cleaned out the carbon and checked out the valve train. Got lucky, no sticky valves or dead cam lobes.

Most old cars have cancer, when you get a solid body a frame on is really nice. I tried putting the car on ramps, but a lift is the only way to do that underside.

[Caballero2]

Jim:

Just a note about the gear third member of the differential. Not only did GM but Ford shipped their vehicles with red oxide primer on the differential. I do not know why or even if this was always true. Anyhow this is how I did both of my restorations. - Dan

[1957buickjim]

54fins, suprisingly enough, the car spent it's entire life in Michigan. It was assembled in Flint, bought in Chicago, and was here from day one. I guess they were limiting the amount of undercoating the day it was built or something. Either way, I am thankful that it was not buried in the goo.

Dan, next round of photo's will show that exact approach. Stay tuned....

[1957buickjim]

Now that the leak was fixed, and since I had the darn thing out, I figured I might as well gussy it up a bit, you know, make it look like a new one..or something like that. I first used Eastwood Rust converter, sprayed with an HVLP gun on the whole assembly, after first sanding it all down with 100 grit sand paper and degreasing, dusting it with lacquer thinner. Let that Rust converter set up for a day, and I then did the brake baking plates, with a 3/4 kit of Eastwood Golden Cad, and Metallic Gold Rustoleum..I will go into that in another post. After that was done, I painted the gear third member of the differential red oxide primer, then coating it with Rustoleum Clear Matte finish, for some extra protection.

While the Rust Converter was drying, I painted the panhard bar and springs Industrial Rustoleum Gloss Black, after priming them with self-etching primer.

A few things to note on this part of the process:

1..Whale Oil (differential fluid/oil) will leak out of the vent cap if you try to rotate your differential 180 degrees. Use a clamp with a gasket or something to keep it closed if you paint it the way I did. (don't ask me how I learned this lesson )

2..If you have to fix a leak, the best way to ensure that you will not have another leak is to drill and tap a hole in the torque tube for a drain plug so when your torque tube doesn't fill up again, you have another dang screw or bolt to lose when you take it out to check. (Thanks Mike and Willie!)

Here are some of the photos of this whole process.

[Caballero2]

With such fine work, I can see a Caballero in your future.

Dan

[1957buickjim]

Stand back you devil... ! Once I get through this one, I will confer with the forces to be and figure out the next move.....I do like the station wagon though...It is about the same size as my Ford Flex....Hmmmmm?

[buick5563]

Doubt it

Oh, and I don't deserve any credit for the drain hole idea (even though I explained it to you). That's all Old-Tank.

(I just don't want to owe him royalties)

[1957buickjim]

I stand corrected on the drain hole. Old Tank...Thanks for the tip!

Work with me here Mike,..I already would like to get moving on a family cruiser...such as a Caba....It must be the force....can't stop...must be strong.....

[buick5563]

I'm on your side brother. Just think a Cab is longer than a Flex.

[Guest 54fins]

Wow- a Chicago car without undercoat. That actually what saved it!

What year did they drop the torque tube?

[1957buickjim]

54fins,

I was surprised as well about the undercoat. Most of the undercoat was at the exremeties (rocker panel, outer floor pans up and in the rear wheel wells. Maybe the original owner was a cheap son of a gun and didn't get the car undercoated because of the cost. For whatever his reason, it was a bonus for me to not have to scrape all that gunk off of there.

As for the torque tube, Buick Engineering dropped the torque tube in 1957 to lower the height of the car about 3 inches. Did that job, but made it more complex under the car for any repairs.

Speaking of repairs, while I had the rear end off the car, I figured I might as well do the brakes as well. They were not in bad shape, just in need of a good cleaning and scuffing up. I did take the drums and had them resurfaced while I had them out.

Here are some pictures of the brake stuff. I wire wheeled the drums and painted them with a POR15 manifold gray, looks just like natural cast metal, and it is resistant to brake fluid. I did use Eastwood Brake Gray to paint the wheel cylinders, enjoy.

[Guest 54fins]

57 is an interesting year. Every manufacture made a cool car in 57. And of course, the 57 chevy is nice but there are alot of them.

[Caballero2]

Jim:

This startled me for a second.

Buick : Other Buick : Other | eBay

Dan

[1957buickjim]

WOW! Talk about close..Very interesting to see your car (almost) for sale on eBay! That is one sharp looking ride though! I hope he gets high dollar for it. It will be a good bench mark for my Old Bessie..It is almost exactly like mine, but a 2dr hdtp. Amazing..

Edited June 5, 2012 by 1957buickjim (see edit history)

[1957buickjim]

The saga continues...now that the torque tube is painted, I thought I would go in to a little detail work on doing the "faux" gold cad plating on the backing plates. I know, extreme restoration would have me disassembling the whole rear axle to get the plates off, take them to a plater, etc. But, my rear axles were not leaking or needing bearing service and I am quite sure my garage doesn't have the tools for that total removal (by the looks of the shop manual), so I opted for the "poor man's golden cad" on the plates.

I started with using a base coat of Rustoleum Metallic Gold paint on the plates, masking off the axle tubes. After that was dry (in a matter of 30 min or so) I dusted them with the Eastwood Red Cad spray paint, let it dry, then Eastwood Green Cad, dry again then Eastwood Diamond Clear Gloss for painted surfaces. I did purchase the Eastwood Kit with their Gold Base coat, but thought the Rustoleum would be more robust, and it did "pop" more with metallics in it. I did run a comparison on a few different metallic base coats, but the gold was the best. Here are some photo's of what transpired.