About spark-plug shields??

[Guest bofusmosby]

On my 1937 Pontiac, it has the original flat-head six, and where the sparkplugs are located (on top) , there is a indented place where the sparkplugs screw into the head. Because of this, when it rains, this area fills up with water, which of course causes it to rust. My question is, "were there ever any shields that could be put on the sparkplugs that would deflect the water away from where the plugs screw into the block"?

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Don't know about shields to keep water out of those wells ...

Chrysler Corporation used flat-head sixes through 1959, and those engines had the spark-plugs down in wells also.

Chrysler offered an "Ever-Dry" kit to "water-proof" the plugs and prevent them from shorting-out in wet-weather... the kit consisted of a set of metal cups that were placed in the well before the plug was installed , then a big rubber boot was pushed over the metal right-angle terminal on the spark-plug wire, so that when the wires were connected to the plug, the boot was then pulled down over plug, and its skirt snapped over the lip of the metal cup.

This did not prevent water from collecting in the wells, but it did keep the plugs dry.

Personally, I never needed them on my flat-head MoPars, but none of them had a butterfly-hinge up the middle of the hood...

[West Peterson]

Is there not a "gutter" under the hinge to redirect water? If not, is there supposed to be one? If this is consistent every time it rains, it sounds to me like something is missing.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Is there not a "gutter" under the hinge to redirect water? If not, is there supposed to be one? If this is consistent every time it rains, it sounds to me like something is missing.

Thats a good question. Since this is the only Pontiac like this I have seen, I have nothing to compare it to. It does seem that there should be some way of preventing water from collecting at the plugs.

Frank, the reason I asked, is because I seem to remember years ago that I saw a large piece of something (rubber?) that slid over the end of the sparkpug to keep moisture out. I could be wrong, as my memory isn't as good as it used to be.

[keiser31]

Thats a good question. Since this is the only Pontiac like this I have seen, I have nothing to compare it to. It does seem that there should be some way of preventing water from collecting at the plugs.

Frank, the reason I asked, is because I seem to remember years ago that I saw a large piece of something (rubber?) that slid over the end of the sparkpug to keep moisture out. I could be wrong, as my memory isn't as good as it used to be.

There are no "gutters" or anything to redirect the water on the MoPars. they did come up with a rubber cup system that covers the plugs and it can be found on ebay sometimes.

[Rusty_OToole]

The Chrysler system is available from Chrysler antique parts suppliers. As DeSoto Frank says, it consists of metal bases that go under the spark plugs and a rubber boot that snaps onto the base, completely shielding the plug.

There is no reason these parts can't be fitted to any flathead that uses standard size spark plugs.

If you wanted to be totally sure you would install new plug wires at the same time and coat all joints with dielectric grease or a special silicone grease made for plug wires.

http://www.oldmoparts.com/k.htm

Andy Bernbaum scroll down to Everdry kit, 6 cylinder $29.50 8 cylinder $39.50

Edited November 30, 2010 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Guest bofusmosby]

Thank you for the link Rusty. I'm not as concerned with the sparkpugs, as I am with the wells on the head that the plugs go in to. Its something to open the hood after a quick rain, and see the these wells full of water. The plugs themselves aren't rusting, its the wells that are rusting. These shields would only prevent the water from touching the plugs, but the water would still fill the wells on the head.

Would rubber melt or burn from the heat of the ceramic part of the plugs? I have an idea to make a cone-shaped piece out of rubber, that would flare out past the wells, thus preventing the water from getting into there. You know, just something to deflect the water away. What do you think? I have access to a 2-part rubber material, and a mold could be easily made out of plaster-of-paris. However, I have no idea at what temp. the rubber would start breaking down.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

I don't think the porcelain would get hot but the base of the plug sure would. try to touch it while the engine is running. This post reminds me of a derelict Model A Ford truck I once saw in the woodline of a farm . Nearly every place a tree could grow up through the car, it did, including 3 out of four quadrants of the steering wheel. one thing that caught my eye was the spark plugs,or the lack of the bottoms. the porcelain and brass parts were hanging on the strips, the rustable bases were completely gone

Edited December 1, 2010 by Dave Mellor NJ (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

I was thinking of protecting the spark plugs so your car would start in wet weather. If you are thinking of keeping rust off the head perhaps you could add a gutter under the hood hinge? I'm thinking of a metal or plastic gutter held in place by duct tape. Something that can be removed without leaving holes. How about a strip of rubber or vinyl fastened by tape on both sides? It would flex when you open the hood and turn into a gutter when you close it.

[Guest bofusmosby]

So far, the car has started fine when it is wet. I am afraid that any tape used on the hood would create a real mess when the heat of the engine gets to the tape. It would cause a very sticky mess IMO. If I come up with some sort of "well shield", I'll be sure and post some photos of what I did. I know that they make high temp silicone sealant, so maybe I could use that in a mold to get the correct shape. It would also stretch over the spark-plug sealing the plug from water.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Jim,

Are you concerned about cosmetic damage / discoloration to the paint on the cylinder head, or significant rust damage to the cast-iron of the cylinder head itself ?

While water ponding in the wells will cause the spark-plug shells to rust and perhaps cause rust-staining to the painted area in the wells, I have NEVER seen the cast-iron head of a spark-plug well rust-through; I have seen plenty of spark-plug shells rusted away with the porcelains just sitting there, but this is usually in engines that have sat-out in the weather for decades....

How often does you car sit-out in the rain ? If it only happens when you're caught in the occasional down-pour, I'd just blow the water out with compressed air, or mop it out with cheap paper towels when you get home...

If you really need a long-term fix, I concur with others who have suggested some sort of gutter suspended from the hood-hinge rod, to catch and divert the rain-water.

But if your car is sitting out in the rain that much, I think you are going to have bigger problems than rusty spark plugs...

[Guest bofusmosby]

I was checking out some ebay listings, and there is a guy selling the Pontiac 8 cyl. 1937 engine. Take a look at the photo I have included, and look at the top of the engine (head). Note that there is a metal shield going across the top of the spark-plugs. Is it possible that there was this type of cover/shield for the 6 cyl as well?

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Jim,

That metal shield on the straigh-eight is what is commonly known as a spark-plug wire loom.

Looking closely at the photo, there are two studs sticking-up out of the head to the near side of where the loom is sitting, and the plug wires sticking out the far side, way past the plugs.

It looks like the loom was removed from its mounting studs, and then just set back on the head; when it is in place, it sits to the driver's side of the spark-plugs, not covering them at all.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Thank you Frank. I must admit, that my biggest concern is water standing on the block around the spark-plugs, and getting into the cylinders. My car has developed some misses, and unless I am giving it gas, it stalls when idling. I plan on replacing the spark-plugs and the wires next week. The wires are leaking, and I get bit when I grab hold of the wires at the plugs. If any water has gotten in to the cylinders, it might cause some rust deposits to form on the valves, thus not allowing them to close correctly. Hopefully, this is not the case.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Jim,

I can appreciate your concern; as long as there's no debris in the seating are of the plug to prevent sealing ( and you would have a compression leak), and the plugs are properly tightened down ( 1/4 turn after the plug contacts the gasket), it would take decades of standing with water in the wells for them to rust-through and allow water to leak into the cylinders.

As for damage to the valves and cylinders, that would more quickly occur from moisture from the atmosphere entering the cylinder through an open intake or exhaust valve.

If the water ponding in the plug-wells happens only when you and the car get caught in a shower, I wouldn't get too worried about it, just mop-out the wells with some paper-towels when you get home, then follow-up with some compressed air. Residual engine heat should finish the drying process.

Now, if your car is stored out in the open, and subject to every rain storm, I think you're going to find you have many greater issues with unwanted water than just in the plug wells.

I think your idling /stalling problem has another cause(s)... start by checking the points, if they close-up (due to the rubbing block wearing down), that can cause poor idling; just went through this on my Model A.

Edited December 10, 2010 by De Soto Frank (see edit history)

[Guest]

On my 1937 Pontiac, it has the original flat-head six, and where the sparkplugs are located (on top) , there is a indented place where the sparkplugs screw into the head. Because of this, when it rains, this area fills up with water, which of course causes it to rust. My question is, "were there ever any shields that could be put on the sparkplugs that would deflect the water away from where the plugs screw into the block"?

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Jim, Your car has the older type split hood. Do you think water is getting by the hinge? On pictures I see in AACA's magazine and also Hemmings classic car magazine I see evidence of this water/rust condition on certain flatheads of that era. I'm wondering if this sort of thing was the norm with those hoods and the reason Pontiac went to the clam shell hood I think starting in 1939. Seems to me because of the stud mounting for the silver streaks you would be able to make a large enough channel the length of the split hoods to cover the exposed hinge and mount to one side only to drain water away.

Don

[Guest bofusmosby]

Thank you Frank. I have a bad habbit of worring about things I shouldn't worry about. Gee, now I am going to be concerned about the dampness here in Tampa because of the high humidity.

After I replace the plugs and plug wires, if that doesn't take care of the miss, then I'll check the points. I'll be sure and post my findings.

Don

You may be correct about the reason for the change-over in 1939. Unless there was something fastened to the underside of the hood at the hinges, anytime it rains, water "flows" onto the top of the engine.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

I think the changeover to the alligator hood was to "Keep up with the Joneses" as Ford changed theirs in 37, 38 in the trucks. by 40 I think all domestic cars had changed. Some trucks kept the side-opening hood till after the war.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Chrysler kept the side-opening hood through '41, Dodge through '48.

In trucks, Chevy & GMC had side opening hoods through '46-'47.

Stude, Ford, IHC had "alligator" hoods since before the war.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Buick had the 3-point hood. You opened it up from either rear corner.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Buick one piece, side opening hood debued in 1941.

Ben

[HarryJ]

Now I must admit; ya'll may have addressed a question that has puzzled me for a while. Turns out the parts car I have has some sort of caps on the top of the spark plugs. I looked at them closely and cleaned up a few of them when I put some oil in each of the parts car's cylinders as a matter of preventive maintainence/preservation about a year and a half ago. I haven't thought of them again till I saw this post. These shields are made of red bakelite. They won't keep the water out of the spark plug wells; but, keep it off the plugs. I have included some pics for your viewing.

[jazzer3]

I was checking out some ebay listings, and there is a guy selling the Pontiac 8 cyl. 1937 engine. Take a look at the photo I have included, and look at the top of the engine (head). Note that there is a metal shield going across the top of the spark-plugs. Is it possible that there was this type of cover/shield for the 6 cyl as well?

The believe the engine in the photo is a Chrysler eight this metal shield only contained plug wires the plugs are exposed on the other side of the metal shield

Jay

[Guest bofusmosby]

Thank you for the photos! My idea is very similar to what is pictured. I am going to use a mold to make some Hi-Tep cones similar to what is pictured. The difference is that they will be just a bit longer (taller) and a little larger in diameter. They will connect to the plug wires where they plug in to the spark-plugs, and then go all the way down to the engine block. It might not be a water-proof fix, but it surely will help prevent the water from "ponding" in the spark-plug wells.

[MCHinson]

Jim,

I know nothing about Pontiacs. I am just a Model A Ford guy. Is there possibly something wrong with your hinge? I find it hard to believe that in 1928 Henry Ford was able to produce a center of the hood hinge that did not leak water onto the engine in the rain, but you are having this problem with a 1937 Pontiac.

Can you post a close up photo of the bottom side of the hinge? Is there possibly a small problem or defect in the hinge causing this?

[Guest bofusmosby]

There is a light rain out right now, but later on today, or tomorrow, I'll take some photos. My problem is, I have never noticed another 37 Pontiac hood, so I have nothing to compare it to. Good idea though.

[MCHinson]

There are a lot of 1937 Buicks out there. I have never heard of anybody with Buicks complaining about rain pouring onto their engine. I would think that Buick and other GM cars of the same era would use the same or similar hinges. It just sounds likely that something must be wrong with your hinge instead of the hinge design.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Jim,

Have you posted this question further down the Forum, in the Pontiac Dept. ?

Frank

[Guest bofusmosby]

No Frank I haven't. I figured that here would get the biggest exposure. That is a good idea though. I'll do that!

Thank you!