cone clutch rebuild

[Guest jroyse]

Need to re-line my cone type clutch. What is the best material to use? Also have a partially rusted out spare I would like to rebuild. These are from a 1918 Dort. Any ideas?

Thanks

[Guest Silverghost]

Many I believe were leather covered ~

[Larry Schramm]

Leather gets my vote also.

[Guest jroyse]

I agree with leather. Where can I get it? Does anybody rebuild these...adjustment bolts, springs, rust out, etc?

[Seldenguy]

jroyse- All older clutches were faced with leather. Bob Knaak in California is recognized as the person to rebuild these. He can answer all your questions and provides superior customer satisfaction. He can be reached by phone 714/633-9736, or bobknaak@hotmail.com . Good luck--Bob

[Guest jroyse]

Thanks loads!! I'm working on it now, right now.

[Guest jroyse]

Just found out about a place here in the Detroit area: Clutch Masters. They work with a company in Canada who specialize in old and odd clutches. We'll see how this turns out. Stay tuned.

[W_Higgins]

I relined one for a '17 Buick several years ago. Just went across the street to the saddle shop and got a scrap of 1/4 in material. I believe many people now use Kevlar.

There is a formula for how to lay out the pattern that is pretty trick. If you decide to do it yourself I'll see if I can find it again.

[sambarn]

There is also Wearever Clutches in New York - They build Kevlar replacement cones for cars that work extremely well and last much longer as well as reducing glazing. Lou is a hobbyist and a man who knows the mechanics of orphan marques like no other.

[Marty Roth]

If you have an oil leak, and in an early car with a cone clutch, you probably do leak oil from the rear of the crankshaft onto the clutch:

Kevlar will likely slip much more than leather

[Chris Bamford]

You could probably do this job yourself — its not really that difficult.

Here is a article I wrote for our local club on the relining of leather cone clutches.

You don't need a fancy formula to determine the shape of the leather lining... just spray a light mist of adhesive on some butcher paper or similar, lay it flat on the cone, trim both edges, peel it off and stick the pattern to your leather.

I would suggest making the leather slightly wider than the pattern in case you are slightly mis-positioned when glueing it to the cone. It will trim easily with a sharp box-cutter using the cone as a guide. Bevel each edge of the butt joint so the edges won't catch upon engagement.

This particular job tuned out very well, as did the reline I did on my own car back in 1996. I've since worn out a set of tires, but the clutch is still fine.

Reline cone clutch.pdf

[Restorer32]

From the Dept of Useless Info...the shape you need is called a FRUSTUM or section thru a cone.

[Dandy Dave]

From the Dept of Useless Info...the shape you need is called a FRUSTUM or section thru a cone.

Sounds like a frustating proposition.... Dandy Dave!

[W_Higgins]

You also want to make sure you have the correct side of the leather facing out, there being a hair and skin side, with the skin side facing out. Been awhile since I've done it, but the skin side should be the fuzzy, not glazed side, of the material. Obviously, the side that would have the most "grip".

You don't need a fancy formula to determine the shape of the leather lining... just spray a light mist of adhesive on some butcher paper or similar, lay it flat on the cone, trim both edges, peel it off and stick the pattern to your leather.

That's an interesting approach. The formula is not a difficult one. A 3rd grader could do it with the right instruction. It is something like you figure the large and small circumferences and then take a pencil tied to a string (that's what I use, anyway) and swing an arc making the radius the length of the first circumference, then the other, and laid out on the paper you have a flat pattern of the piece you need. It's fun if you enjoy that sort of thing, and mechanical drawing, and such.

So, you haven't had any issues using aluminum pop rivets? I'd be a little leery that they'd loosen-up over time. I used solid flathead copper in the one I did, which is exactly what was in it to begin with.

[Guest Silverghost]

What is the best heat resistant contact adhesive to use when replacing leather on your antique cone clutch ?

Where do you find such adhesive ?

Some, if not most all cone clutch leather is also rivited-on is it not ?

Finding the proper leather should not be very hard to do.

Use high grade rivits ~

Pop-Rivits won't really stand-up well will they ?

.

A friend's 1914 Rolls~Royce Silver Ghost is still using it's original clutch leather after 70,000 miles ;~ as is my 1926 Springfield Silver Ghost !

Some guys have been using Kevlar clutch lining since the mid 1970s ~

Does anyone have any long-term experience with using Kevlar VS old fashoned leather cone clutch lining ?

What are the long term benefits of both clutch lining materials ?

Where do you in fact buy the woven Kevlar sheeting ?

Is it as stiff as new leather ?

What thickness woven Kevlar sheeting is actually needed ?

We have never re-lined a cone clutch ~

Edited December 13, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[W_Higgins]

If you have an oil leak, and in an early car with a cone clutch, you probably do leak oil from the rear of the crankshaft onto the clutch:

Kevlar will likely slip much more than leather

This is surprising to me, as Kevlar is the preferred material for relining Model T bands, and they run in an oil bath. Do you have any experience with it? I'm curious as the reason I went with leather when doing that one was my being skeptical about using modern materials and the fact that the (then) 88 year old car into which it was going was still running it's original leather clutch.

Come to think of it, I did a White at the same time, but the owner still has not gotten that car back together yet.

[Chris Bamford]

Thanks W-H, that seems like a simple enough way to lay out the pattern. Making a paper pattern first does give you one on hand in case another re-lining is required — but that's a long time in the future if ever.

There has been no problem so far with the aluminum rivets — remember we took a 'belt-and-suspenders" suspenders approach and also glued the leather (smooth side) to the cone. I figure either should have been enough, have both is comfortable overkill. As well, the pop rivets seemed more secure due to the clamping action at installation — hand-bucked brass rivets would, to my thinking, be less tight and more prone to loosening. And the contact cement is very strong in shear which is the load force as the clutch is engaged.

SilverG, we didn't worry about a high-heat-resistant contact cement... that area of the car gets warm during operation but not hot. I suppose that extensive slipping of the clutch could heat things up considerably, but that's just dumb driving.

One nice thing about these big engines with low revs and heavy flywheels, is they are easy to shift without using the clutch. Most of the time I only use the clutch to start out in first... most of my upshifts and quite a few down shifts are done via rev-matching.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Bamfords Garage (see edit history)

[W_Higgins]

Sounds like a good installation, and you have the miles behind it to prove it. So far the copper flat-headed rivets have worked fine. The heads are also like flathead screws in that the backside is angled rather than flat, so when you're pushing them while peening, it's not like with a standard rivet where it takes an extreme amount of pressure to get them seated. They are what was there originally, so I ran with it.

The White was totally different in that it has valleys in the face into which the t-shaped drawbolts pulled the leather tight, though I can't remember if it was still riveted on the ends.