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Dodge Brothers Graham Brothers trucks


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There is a village not far from here that uses a mid to late 20s paddy wagon D.B as a display and I have posted pictures here of it in the past. Might want to do a search in the AACA archives for the shots as I dont have them saved anywhere that I am aware of

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Maybe a year, maybe two, I looked for the truck this year when I went to one of their shows and it was not parked where it normally is. Had I known someone would be intertested I would have asked.

Prob. there somewhere and can find out next Jan. if you remind me or better yet contact ....(863) 285-9121...........Florida Flywheeler's Antique Engine Club

Someone there should be able to tel you where the truck is and maybe even help with pictures. Its about a 1.5 hour drive for us otherwise I would just do it myself.

Let whomever know that answers the phone that vehicle is normally kep outside of the building they have mocked up as a holding cell.

Maybe they got rid of that building all together, I dont know

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I have this manual. It may be that comerical truck frame is different than the comerical car. My 28 3/4 ton series "E" has a level top of frame at the rear spring mount and the comerical car has a curved top at the rear spring mount. Are comerical cars using the car frame rather the the truck frame?

Very interesting discussion. These surviors are treasures.

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This thread seems to have unearthed the right group for my next question...

I have a '29 DA Australian-bodied roadster and the build card from Chrysler Archives stating that it was built 2nd April 1930 and fitted with engine # H-135689 (note the alpha prefix). It was exported to Australia and was fitted with a Richards body.

It now has a motor #TE1-2784.. (last digits missing). I have tried for some time to determine if the current motor is a truck motor and how come the original motor had an alphabetic prefix anyway?

BTW ... The car runs like a dream and has heaps of power, probably due to larger capacity engine. But what is it from ??

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Hi Lenny, all DA engines ( and many others within this time period had some alphanumeric digit ) had the alphanumeric letter of H preceding the digits. It is one of the quickest signs we have to determine the series of engine.

If you were to post some pict. of the TE1 engine along with location of that number maybe someone here could help identify it.

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)
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Can you post pictures of the differences in the frames stakeside. Could it be a different manuf. of the frames. ( doubtfull I know ) I believe the frames were not built bt D.B. I believe that I have some info on that ( not much ) so maybe it comes down to either two different manuf or maybe a difference of prod.dates. Could it be as well that you are comparing a 4 cyl truck with a 6 cyl. Pictures as mentioned would be helpfull in understanding what you are explaining as differences.

Might be also two different wheel base trucks, is yours the 124, werent there more than one variation of the 3/4. I cant remember all of this stuff off the top of my head so at this point Im just throwing stuff out there and seeing what might stick.

Might be I should have to look into a bit further before I suggest such things.

Sounds to me as if you are comparing an earlier truck/commercial car which used the same frames as the cars with a little bit later commercial truck which is what I am assuming you have.

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)
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Quote.......@1930

Thanks for the info. I'll see what happens. Just sent them an email.

.............Id give them a call and keep trying till you find the right person. unless you get lucky with an e-mail

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@1930

Yes, I plan on doing that. I like emails first and hope for the best, but I will recontact if I don't hear from them. All I'm trying to do is make sure I have an acurate depiction of what a Paddy / Jail Wagon would have looked like during that time period. In doing our restoration I used old pictures and the movies to create our wagon. Santa Barbara county had Emergency Services vehicles back in the 20's and from what I found in our archives, they were the Dodge Brothers Four Screen Express. They did not have the Star on the door, but they did not use logos on any of their vehicles during that time period. The Star and Sheriff signage were my add ons for display purposes only.

I would like to make it as close as I can to the Paddy/Jail Wagons of that era.

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Thanks. I have found that most agencies back in those days had no signage or stars. They used the vehicles the way they came from the factory. The modifications were mostly done locally, by the agencies that purchased them. They would make the mods as needed. I am sure that eventually there was a company that made them and many of the Paddy Wagons we see were these. The ones with solid sides and were used for doing raids during prohibition and arresting drunks and prostitutes. Ours is more of a Jail Wagon, used for transporting our prisoners from the County Jail system to State or Federal Prison systems. This was why they used the screen sides, they wanted ventilation during transport.

Anyway, I am always looking for any info I can find. Thanks for your input.

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[for 1930] Sorry for the delay in getting pictures of that "TE1_ xx" engine, but please see attached shots. The engine is a 6-cylinder Dodge flathead with a 25" head and a B&B downdraft carburettor (as you can see). It also has this strange side mounted plate under the exhaust manifold that was probably for some sort of take-off drive (see shot). This is what makes me think it was a truck/tractor motor.

Someone in the Dodge Club (perhaps John Bittence) said T=truck and E=export, explaining how it might have arrived in Australia. Any leads would help. Thanks.

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Hi Lenny, looks like a much later engine, ( maybe 40s or 50s even ) I may have misunderstood your original post in that you already know this. I wouldnt have any idea what that engine is from, it could be a Plymouth engine or maybe a John Deere ;) for all I would know. Hopefully someone here would recognize it.

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@1930

I did get a response back from that club that has the 20's Paddy Wagon. He informed that he would send some pics as soon as he could get them together. Apparently they garage the truck when they are not having some type of affair at their little town. So now I will just wait and see.

Thanks for the info.

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Hi Stakeside, in a few more weeks I will be able to get at more of my paperwork so maybe we can get somewhere. Looks like at least a 1 ton, I did not think that the 3/4 ton had the little springy deelie front motor mounts, springs in the rear look heavy too. Is that at all possible from your end ?

I think I have figured out the reason that you have noticed the frame differences as well ( beside my first point on the reply ) but I will wait for further info from you on some of my questions before I present my case.

I cant for the life of me find a pictures that I planned to post tonight of a 1 ton frame only that is identical ( or appears to be ) to what you have. I found it in one of my Graham books but now its hiding again.

I also found another 3/4 ton 4 cyl parts book ( early ) that I didnt know I had because it is missing its front cover and so blended in with the other book in the binder. Looked like some stuff that might help another Graham owner I have in mind.

Looks like nice frame and good fenders but tough so see much else.

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Stakeside....your frame is alot heavier than my '27 3/4 ton "commercial car".My frame is the same as used on cars,even the rear crossmember is curved sheet metal formed to fit the gas tank on cars...my tank is under the seat. I agree with 1930 yours looks like maybe 1 ton? Bill

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I missed that as a question, Manuel is right that is certanitely your oil pump Lenny. I was able to find the view of your frame ( I believe ) we can identify it further maybe if you give your serial number, I think I have all the truck parts books for this time period so data isnt an issue no matter what size it is.

Sorry for the poor quality scan, trying to be gentle on the book, double click on image and it will explode and become super clear.

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Lenny,

I am curious about that TE engine no. Is it definitely an E?

Could it be a number, eg, T3?

Some Dodge trucks from the late 1930s were TE's. I wonder if the engine could be out one of those?

Just some thoughts.

Manuel in Oz

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I know this does not really help much but to give you an idea this is the first manual that I had laying on my desk showing the oil pump on a DK-8 engine. Hope it help to clear something up

This is a D.B powerplant dated 1931 or 1932, ever seen anything prettier ??

If you want the next page that indicating what 39 is let me know, says oil pump clear enough, check out that free-wheeling servo and the air cleaner as well, I can just imagine this engine nice and shiny and brand new, its a work of art all unto itself :)

It took me a few years before I finally figured out that if you double click the image it will blow up and be crystal clear, maybe you already know this.

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Edited by 1930 (see edit history)
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1930

Thanks for posting frame picture.

My frame # is S115179. My wheelbase is 120". I have a single driveshaft. The 130" wheelbase had a two piece drive shaft. This frame is a salvaged frame since mine was damaged.

The original frame # was S114139. I have a portion on the original body plate from under the drivers side door. I can read 120 in and "DE" is listed as model.

I have two sets of rear springs and one has 9 leaves and the other has 10 leaves. I suspect the salavage frame may have had a heavier spring even with the 120 wheelbase.

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Sure enough it would appear than to be the 3/4 ton commercial truck. I though I saw something familiar.

E series 3/4 ton 120 inch wheelbase trucks starting with frame no D-176743 E- 133108, S- 109867 and continuing up until D-204872, E-142779, S-112798 used the Victory engine.

These trucks used Commercial truck 3/4 ton Truck series First edition ( which I have shown above and you say you have )

Starting at frame no D-204872, E- 142779, S-112798 ( your truck ) was built with the DA engine. You are referencing the wrong parts book, you should be using parts list 3/4 ton 120 W.B Published Oct !st 1929 in the new form of the Chrysler Motors parts Corporation.

I think I have this one as well but I have not verified that yet. ( pretty certain )

Welcome to my world!!

I have the original book these pictures were taken from if you would like a color copy of the yellowed page, I try and photocopy everything I have as time allows. Its a 29 anyhow you look at it except maybe a titling view.

I am hoping you might have some literature that you would be willing to share with me concerning your truck that I might not have, anything at all ??

I have a later serial number chart but it begins with all trucks after Sept 1930, somewhere I have serial number identification chart for trucks prior to that but I will have to dig it up.

According to your cab info this information below will pertain to your truck specifically. Hope you find enjoyable!

Can you send me pictures of the engine both sides, also originally a Stewart or Kingston? Any pictures of the driveline complete both side front and back top and bottom, maybe dash/cowl. cab section, anything at all I would find enjoyable.

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Edited by 1930 (see edit history)
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Who said men couldn't do more than one thing at once ?? ... and maybe this thread should have gone to the Dodge Truck forum to begin with ... but I press on regardless....

[1930] Thanks for that manual page showing the oil pump. I agree it's a sweet motor and if mine falls into that category I'm happy. Many similarities to mine .. downdraft carby, exhaust, distributor etc..

[Manuel] With some finagling of my old Nikon I managed to get a close up of the engine number (attached) ....definitely TE1-2784xxx, so maybe you are right about it being a truck motor.

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Spent a bit on this Lenny and thought you might be interested in seeing this and maybe contacting the author. It would appear to be a Dodge truck engine. T Flathead Six Engines

Flathead Six Engine Numbers

Maybe because it is export is the reason it is becoming difficult to narrow down further. Hope this helps

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)
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don't know year but this guy is looking to sell this Dodge Truck.

his email states:

It is in fact a 1934 F-60E model and quite rare with the “jumbo” cab<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

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1930

Thanks for the pictures of the pages of your manual . That is my truck shown and the specs sheet is very helpful. Mine is the DE and not sure what was the DEW model. The specs page does show a different tire size which may mean the DEW has 20" cast iron rims and hubs. All else may be the same.

Both of my running gear has a 120 " wheelbase but one have 10 leaf rear springs and not the standard 9 leaf rear spring. The frame #s are S114139 and S115179 and have the H code DA engines.

The S114139 has a Steward bronze carb and a Steward Vacuun tank

At your conveince any additional portion of the manual would be very helpful. Is there any closed cab or flatbeds notes or pictured?

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Hi stakeside, as you mention ............and have the H code DA engines...........confirms what I told you about the truck you have and the parts catalog you are referancing as being incorrect for the vehicle. You have the same engine in your truck ( practically ) as I have in my car.

Thank-you for the wonderfull pict. of the truck, looks like you are doing a stand-up job. Id be more than happy to swap info and help any way I can.

You didnt respond to my queery of what sort of info you might have collected over the years, I am hoping that you have something I can learn from and I am sure I have more items of interest that I can dig up that we both can learn from.

Again the pictures are great, pose more question for me but are great. Thanks for that.

Stakeside ( what was your name please ) I have been thinking about it and prob the easiest thing for us to do is to join forces and come up with a list of any D.B G.B literature wether it be booklets, pamplets advertisements ect we have and submit that to each other. We can then see what the other has and we can at that point make some copies of what would directly benefit the other.

Let me know if your game.

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Starting to plan the flatbed build. I believe that was a option. The "Parts List" for the 3/4 ton "E" does list the hardware for the 'PLATFORM'. See pages 13 & 14 of 74. I do not have any diagrams or pictures. I uncovered the back of my truck and forwarding my photos.

My e-mail is sstake@surewest.net. I will sent my list of information to your e-mail if you wish.

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Like I had mentioned in a previous mail the parts book you are using does not apply to your vehicle. There is a bulletin dated something or other that I have that states what manuals are to be used with what vehicles and information is gathered from serial numbers. Sent you a mail.

Great looking job by the way!

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I'm kinda lost right now. I am being told that the truck we have, our 27 / 28 DB Four Screen (Paddy Wagon) is not a DB at all. I am being told that it is a Graham Brothers truck. All the info I have shows it to be a DB. All markings, hub caps , radiator cowl emblem, ID plate and everything else I found at the start of the project showed it to be a DB. This was why it was registered as a DB Four Screen Express. I found the serial numbers showed that it had come out of the factory around Oct of 1927, but had been registered as a 28. Just figured that it was first registered when it was actually purchased. I was also told that it had been purchased at Surplus from the U.S. Army, figuring that it came from Camp Cook, Camp Roberts, Camp San Luis or maybe even from the POW camp that was built just north of Goleta, CA., the POW Camp was never populated and this would account for the fact the the truck was not OD green.

Anyway, I would like to know that the truck is in fact a DB and not GB. Is there anyway to find out, for sure?

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