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Dodge Brothers Graham Brothers trucks


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Is there any interest in seeing pages here from a catalog showing early trucks. I am sharing it with a different forum I am involved with and it wouldnt take anything to post images here as well. I have attached here a sample of what I am reffering to. Catalog has prob 300 pages of pictures, on the back of every picture is an in depth description of the truck being shown.

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I know they used the 4 cyl in their trucks up until thirty something cant remember the exact year they stopped. Cant be more specific because I havent taken alot of time to study the stuff because of a lack of time. I do have several original DBGB manuals/parts books that I could go thru soon, if you would like to remind me a little later. I hate to say something and be wrong so it takes time to get it right. when I get home from work I spend my hours left on this tool study. The book is dated 1930 and covers models prior to that. If you see a page that interests you ask me to scan the info on the back side.

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Ill keep them coming as long as it seems their is an interest or someone tells me to stop. If anyone would like a scan of the backside of any of these pictures no problem and let me know.

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Doug if you look in the Oct/Nov issue of 99 you will see some interesting facts concerning Plymouth motors in Fargo Dodge Brothers trucks in 29, just happened to run across it. Hope it helps. I have a 29 Fargo/Graham salesmans catalog I need to sift through also.

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  • 7 months later...
Doug if you look in the Oct/Nov issue of 99 you will see some interesting facts concerning Plymouth motors in Fargo Dodge Brothers trucks in 29, just happened to run across it. Hope it helps. I have a 29 Fargo/Graham salesmans catalog I need to sift through also.

If you can point me to that article, I would appreciate it. Is that the Dodge Brothers Club mag?

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Farrell I am sure, there is, prob. 300 pages in this one catalog that I have, I will look thru and let you know..........Yes Lenny it is the D.B mag back issue which is avail thru the D.B store on compact disk...40 bucks I think but it is all the back issues. I will look and see if I can find it and post that article here. In the middle of remodeling inside here so things can be difficult to find at the moment.

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  • 8 months later...

btt

No rush Jason, we know your busy. I for one am subscribed and would like to see this thread continue. ;)

Anything 1930 3/4 ton Panel with wood wheels if you come across any. (I know it's only a 3/4 ton but I hope that qualifies for this discussion but if not I'm still subsribed, very good stuff)

Thank you sir

Edited by 30DodgePanel
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Like I had mentioned Via e-mail last night my catalogs are at this point buried behind sheets of drywall waiting to go up so its going to be a while. You should post the comments we have made so far so that it gives others the chance to either learn something new, add to the discussion or correct me if I am wrong in regards to the DD drivetrain and your 3/4 ton.

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I'm not sure you want me messing this thread up, I'm very, very green.

Our discussions via PM to this point has been very helpful for sure. I'll look at them again and copy some key points that may be of help to others as we go along but yet maintain the integrity of this thread.

I would ask anyone out there to introduce input into the scenario we discussed though. The scenario being: Putting a DD6 engine into a 1930 Dodge Panel 3/4 ton truck that already has the remaining drivetrain.

So if anyone has any input into putting a DD6 into a 1930 3/4 ton Dodge Panel I'd like to hear it as I am getting conflicting information from others for this scenario and it's possibilities.

Like I had mentioned Via e-mail last night my catalogs are at this point buried behind sheets of drywall waiting to go up so its going to be a while. You should post the comments we have made so far so that it gives others the chance to either learn something new, add to the discussion or correct me if I am wrong in regards to the DD drivetrain and your 3/4 ton.
Edited by 30DodgePanel
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The following are some of the key points you mentioned in PM so far as per our discussion on the DD6 possibilities and it's use in a 30 Dodge Panel 3/4 ton.

"First I am fairly certain that you can use the DD-6 engine in the truck and that it will be a bolt in as far as mounts are concerned but I must note that the car engine and the truck engines are not identical. Off the top of my head or first thing that came to mind is that the water outlet elbows are different in that the truck requires a much longer outlet at a different angle to account for the taller radiator of the truck.

I have the model specific parts books for these vehicles and have confirmed this as well and can send pict. if this would help. The bare block assy or block with pistons assy carry a different part number so essentially in 1930 you would not have ordered a car engine for your truck, I am fairly sure though that the outer castings would be nearly the same but that the internals would have been different such as for example more compression in a truck engine, different camshaft ect.

The manifolds and carbs are always different between the cars and the trucks which means the head are going be different in the size of valves and port sizes.

Looking within the parts books verifies that the crankshafts are different as well but again this would be because the truck engine would have had a much beefier journal....another example of the differences in the castings.

I can if you like look further into the tranny back but it is safe to assume in my opinion that the trucks transmission and rear end would have originally been geared completely different, so the transmissions would not have been the same, rear end would have been a much larger unit.

Wheels on the trucks are taller, axles are larger, pumpkin would have been a different variety. Hub cap or dust cover part numbers do not match so it is not the same cap.

In my opinion you can make this work and you have a great idea and I wish you success. You can use the DD-6 engine but will just have to work out the differences between linkages to the engine and flywheel compatibility if there is any there."

Jason

Edited by 30DodgePanel
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I'm just going to put in my 2 cents worth on Graham/Dodge trucks. I once got into an ugly conversation on the internet with a guy from Calif. about a Canadian built 1930 Dodge truck. I said there was no Canadian Dodge truck production until late 1935. My own truck may have been one of the last to be imported into Canada from Detroit in late Oct. 1935 when Canadian Dodge production took over sales. The guy got really ugly saying I didn't know what I was talking about as his Dodge truck plate said it was made in Toronto Ont. in 1930. Both of us were right but he could have been more careful in his reading of the plate as I understand they say 'Built by Graham Brothers Inc. Toronto Canada' on the bottom of the plate.

So my 2 cents here today is; Dodge,at least in Canada, had Graham Brothers make their trucks for them until 1935 when Chrysler Canada took over Graham trucks and it became the Dodge Brothers division of Chrysler Canada. So if you find a Dodge truck in the U.S.,California or otherwise, and it says it was made by Dodge Canada prior to 1935,it was actually made by Graham Brothers in Toronto.

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One thing that may want to be noted to avoid confussion is that there were no such persons as Graham Bros after April 1926. Yes the facility was in Detroit and the trucks were still badged as Graham Bros. but that was only to not upset the public relations dept. in the same sense as keeping the D.B nameplate for so many years after the untimely death of founders and sale of the corporation.

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  • 3 months later...

Great grampa started selling Dodge in 1914. He also sold Graham Bros trucks. I have a 1927 3/4 ton screencanopy and remember Grampa saying it was actually a 1927 1/2 because the 1928 was a Dodge emblem and title and in late 1927 the factory was using up Graham parts in anticipation of the changeover. The 1927 is titled Graham Brothers. I also have a 1928 Victory 6. Guess Grampa saved these two because of that change. He used the '27 as a hunting camp supplies machine and the '28 as a driver. Both are original. I have a cabinet full of all of their sales invoices from the early years also detailing trades they took. Grampa said they stacked cars like cord wood until they had time to junk them. He used to lament the fact that he could have saved them in the barns and buildings he owned if he'd only known they would ever be worth more than just scrap. He junked almost new cars because the new models now had windshield wipers or a heater or hydraulic brakes. Every dealer did.

I'm willing to help any Dodge or Graham owner with any info my stuff holds. This is my first post, so bear with me .

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I'm just going to put in my 2 cents worth on Graham/Dodge trucks. I once got into an ugly conversation on the internet with a guy from Calif. about a Canadian built 1930 Dodge truck. I said there was no Canadian Dodge truck production until late 1935. My own truck may have been one of the last to be imported into Canada from Detroit in late Oct. 1935 when Canadian Dodge production took over sales. The guy got really ugly saying I didn't know what I was talking about as his Dodge truck plate said it was made in Toronto Ont. in 1930. Both of us were right but he could have been more careful in his reading of the plate as I understand they say 'Built by Graham Brothers Inc. Toronto Canada' on the bottom of the plate.

So my 2 cents here today is; Dodge,at least in Canada, had Graham Brothers make their trucks for them until 1935 when Chrysler Canada took over Graham trucks and it became the Dodge Brothers division of Chrysler Canada. So if you find a Dodge truck in the U.S.,California or otherwise, and it says it was made by Dodge Canada prior to 1935,it was actually made by Graham Brothers in Toronto.

Graham Brother Trucks was a subsidiary of Dodge Brothers and when Chrysler purchased Dodge Brothers, they got Graham Brothers with it. Dodge Brothers car production was moved from Toronto to Windsor in 1929 with the opening of the new Windsor assembly plant.

Truck production was moved to the old Maxwell plant on Tecumseh Avenue in 1931. The "official" history of Chrysler of Canada makes that statement. The Toronto plant, on Dufferin Street, was used as a parts facility by Chrysler of Canada for a few years. I believe it was a leased plant and was torn down in the early 1970's.

American-built Dodge trucks also used plates with "Built by Graham Brothers" to about 1935 or 1936. Part of the agreement signed by the three Graham brothers when they left Dodge Brothers was that they would not market a truck for a period of time (ten years?). That agreement came with with the DB purchase. As long as Chrysler used the Graham Brothers truck name they could hold the brothers to that agreement.

In 1931 Graham-Paige entered the truck market, but the brothers used the Paige name and not Graham due to the agreement of 1926.

Canadian Dodge Brothers / Graham Brothers car and truck production started at the Toronto plant in 1924, although they used US serial and engine numbers. It was not until after the Chrysler purchase that Canadian-built Dodge cars (Dodge DA) and trucks (F/UF series) used unique Canadian serial numbers. Unique Canadian engine numbers did not begin until the opening of the Canadian engine plant for 1938.

Fargo Trucks were built in Canada for the 1929 and 1930 model years, although in Windsor and not Toronto. Detroit production continued to late 1930 (1931 models) and Chrysler began building Fargo trucks in Detroit for export in 1933. The Canadian line of Fargo trucks began for the 1936 model year. The last Fargo truck built for Canada was in 1972, although export Fargo models continued to 1987.

Bill

Toronto, ON

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Ive seen the rough DA, it aint all that rough :)

I averaged the condition as the truck is really, really rough. Notice that is a 6 cyl though. The "rough" car was purchased new by my Grandfather & used for 30 years, my Father told me the odometer turned over twice, it shows 55,000 now.

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My "E"3/4 ton Dodge Bros series has the "S" in frame #. I am in california and I believe the truck was assembled in Stockton CA. What years was this plant in operation?

Were the cabs still built by Graham Bros? Is there supposed to be a metal badge naming the builder? I have wood thoughout the cab behind the firewall and cowl.

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Prior to Sept 30 1930 D.B trucks used serial numbers with a letter prefix indicating the point of manuf. and they are as follows

D- Detroit

S- Stockton

E- Evansville

After this time the letter prfix was eliminated using the numeral system only, with trucks that carry the numerals only I can still determine point of manuf. using the appropriate bulletin.

Graham Bros parted ways with Dodge Corporation April 1926 so the truck was built either under leadership of Dillon and Reid or under the Chrysler Corp nameplate but still carried the Graham Brothers marque as a public relations ploy either way.

It would come down to date of manuf. on your truck to determine under what leadership the truck was built under.

The badges would have still carried the G.B name either way.

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)
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Jason....when you mentioned "prior to 9-30-30 were you referring to trucks built after the DB ownership change or to 1 ton and above. I ask as my 9/26 (27 series) 3/4 ton "commercial car" carries a serial# in sequence with the cars.i.e. begins with A. Bill

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Now you have me thinking Bill, ( thanks for that ) stakesides truck is as he mentioned a ...........My truck is a 3/4 ton 28 DB series "E". It has a six cylinder engine................His vehicle is clearly a commerical car as is yours but these frames clearly are going to be marked with a alphabetical prefix before serial number as can be observed with numerous confidential bulletins that I have in that state this and also upon my just now digging out his parts book ( which I have posted a pict. of here ) that reflect the three manuf. plants as well on the front cover.

I am going to assume your point was when did they begin using these alphabetical prefixes, as you say your 27 does not carry these prfixes so it would sound like the prefixes were added after Chrysler takeover.

Something interesting to ponder, it seems to me as I sit here and think about it that I have something somewhere from Chrysler ( some sort of bulletin ) that states this as fact.

I just made a quick look and cant come up with it though so I will have to put it on my to do list.

Thanks again

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Bill, ( or anyone ) stupid question maybe but as I have mentioned before I know little about the pre 28 or so vehicles. Was there any sort of seperation in the truck versus the autos serial numbers, in other words were there a certain span of serial numbers that were only designated toward the trucks.

How were they assembled and assigned the serial numbers in relation to the cars in other words?

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To Meredith Motors

Truth is stranger than fiction, they say. It is quite remarkable that depreciation was so fierce in those days that good trade - ins were only fit for scrap. Presumably the trade price against a new car would have been at odds with the marketing hype which claimed your new Dodge Brothers (presumably other makes as well) would hold it's value well? Perhaps by developing their product, they became a victim of their own success? Great to hear from you with a family connection and please tell us more.

Ray.

Edited by R.White (see edit history)
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Hi Bill, it was getting late last night when I had made my final post and so I awoke with the thought that I had sorta was not thinking but did answer one of my own question in that the alphanumeric codes were added prior to the serial numbers before the chrysler takeover as can be seen by just the parts book alone that I posted a picture above of.

You will notice that it at the bottom is labeled Dodge Brothers Corporation instead of Dodge Brothers Corp a division of Chrysler Corp which is the signature any literature carried after the buyout.

I have read somewhere that the very same day Chrysler took over all stationary, signs, banners whatever that read simply Dodge Brothers were removed from their respective stations and in their place was Chryslers nameplate added.

The book shown above is first edition Victory six truck 28 and the telegraphic code for ordering parts within it is clearly Dodge Brothers or Dillon and Reed and not a Chrysler corp code.

Anyway my point is that apparently the alphanumeric letters were apparently added prior to Chrysler ( pre 28 ) and sometime during 27 as you have stated above that yours does not carry this.

BTW. there are no experts, if there was than you would have one guy answering all the questions never afraid that his post might be corrected.

You brought up a great point/idea in your initial post a few posts back and we all are all little closer to becoming experts Im sure :eek:

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)
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