Removal of water pump from 1925 Buick Standard

[Buick Downunder]

Hi There all,

Can anyone advise on the removal of the water pump on a 1925 Buick Standard? I think this problem would be the same for all models with the delco starter/generator and distributor at the rear, which is driven by a single shaft from the timing/crank gears at the front.

I have read the work shop manual and it does not provide much clear direction. After following it to the letter, I cannot slide the shaft forward enough to get it clear of the distributor.

I think I might have to get the front timing cover off move the shaft far enough forward to pull it clear of the distributor??? Then out through the back once it is clear of the dissy?? Does anyone have any recollection or a better quality workshop manual?

Thanks very much

Ben

[unimogjohn]

Ben, on my 1923 there are two split pins that must be removed on the shaft. The first pin is easily seen on the collar behind the water pump, the other is under or part way under the big nut on the shaft as it comes out of the timing cover. I used a drill of the appropriate size to remove the pins. It has been a few years, but I think that was all I had to do. Then you can take out the bolts of the pump and remove it with a little tugging. Hope that this helps. You do not have to remove the timing cover or anything on the front of the engine.

[Buick Downunder]

Hi John

Thanks for this - I have removed the two pins as you have said and this has not allowed (even after swearing at it!) to pull the shaft far enough forward to clear the front of the distributor and pull it out.

I think the shaft from the distributor must be frozen inside the front shaft (the larger one). can you recall how the shafts seperate once the pins are removed (or in fact do they??). I assume that the rear split pin holds two shafts together - 1 that comes out of the distributor / starter generator and fits immediately inside the larger one which goes into the timing cover.

Hope this makes some sense to you? Any memories appreciated...

Thanks

Ben

[ROD W]

Ben

My 25 master manual reads. drive out tapered pin in generator coupling. Hold heavy block underneath so as not to spring shaft. Remove plate on end of generator.Remove cap over rear shaft bearing and slide generator coupling forward.

Remove packing nut at front end of shaft which will uncover the bushing.

Drive out the taper pin in this bushing. Remove three cap screws holding front bearing assembly to gear case and slide assembly forward.

Id this the same as your instruction manual. I have a 25.55x and am in Bundaberg.

Rod

PS It might be easier to remove generator first.

Edited April 4, 2010 by ROD W (see edit history)

[Leif Holmberg]

As ROD W say you need to remove the generator at first,I don`t think it`s ´possible to remove the pump before that.

Leif in Sweden.

[Leif Holmberg]

Pictures

Leif in Sweden.

[unimogjohn]

Leif, if you move everything out of position, how in the heck do you get the distributer back in time? Seems to me if you either pull out the timing gear or remove the starter generator then you risk the issue of getting it back to its original position.

[Guest Roger_Roy]

distributor timing is pretty easy, just set the engine up at TDC no 1 and install the dist so it fires number one , then set the timing as normal.

[tblack]

I did my 21 in the fall and am going to do my 23 this spring. With the 21 I ended up taking the bolts off the starter gen I did not even take anything else off the starter Electric etc. I was able to move it enough to pull the pump assembly out. Of course retiming was necessary but that is pretty straight forward as the timing marks on the fly wheel are easilly seen through the cover on top.

[Leif Holmberg]

John,I haven`t done this without to have the front pan away.This pictures are from my last 1925 restoring a 5-6 years of years ago.

Leif in Sweden.

[Buick Downunder]

Hi All

Thanks very much Leif and John for your detailed replies. (A picture tells a thousand words too!) Following John's instruction, I loosened off the starter generator off the block and the whole lot came out.

For future reference, here is some appropriate commentary that should accompany the workshop manual for anyone attempting this work in the future. You only need to pull out the starter generator if the rear coupling is frozen and does not move forward enough, otherwise it can stay in situ.

1. Drive out tapered pin in generator coupling. (Hold heavy block underneath so as not to spring shaft).

2. Remove cover plate on end of generator (distributor actually - held in with two small bolts.

3. Remove cap over rear shaft bearing (attached with two bolts to the block)and slide generator coupling forward. To do this I would recommend cleaning up the shaft in front of the ditributor first with sand paper to make sure it is clean and the coupling can move far enough forward. In my case the coupling was frozen to the main shaft and had to be freed in a vice once out of the car. (NOTE: If this is the case and the coupling and brass bush does not move forward, you will need to remove the starter generator also).

4. Remove packing nut at front end of shaft which will uncover the bushing.

Drive out the taper pin in this bushing. Remove three cap screws holding front bearing assembly to gear case and slide assembly forward.

5. You can now pull the shaft up at the rear and slide it out of the rear of the timing gear case and free of the engine.

Install is opposite to removal. As discussed, you will need to retime the engine. The workshop manual gives a good run down on this task and it is really quite easy. Make sure that you use new packing on the water pump glands!

Thanks

Ben

[tblack]

As a follow up..I did get to changing out the pump on my 1923 model 49 this weekend ...I set the starter generator to the side removed power from battery first. If you remove the starter generator it is not necessary to take out the collar drive pin as the unit will pull straight back and the gear and shaft turn slightly as the pump gear pulls out of the cam gear...Same way on the re-istall. The collar pin is a pain so if you have to remove it in place better off on the bench. Visa versa on the re-install.

[Guest bubba21]

I would like to know on the 1925 i am working on where I could get parts for the water pump.

[Guest jwjanacek]

Hey Bubba. I have a 1923 in San Marcos. Can I hire you to fix the water pump?

[Leif Holmberg]

bubba21,and jwjanacek ,I think you need to restore your pump by your self or by a mecanik shop,I don`t think any new parts can be bought on the market.

Leif in Sweden.

[jbbuick22]

As for parts, the shaft, bushings, and impeller will have to be made by your local machine shop, I think several

members have had the impeller made, Terry Wiegand is one. Also some have adapted modern seals instead of the

packing.

The passing of Dave Corbin is a very sad note, he will be missed by all of us.

JB

22-6-55

[27donb]

Ben, on my 1923 there are two split pins that must be removed on the shaft. The first pin is easily seen on the collar behind the water pump, the other is under or part way under the big nut on the shaft as it comes out of the timing cover. I used a drill of the appropriate size to remove the pins. It has been a few years, but I think that was all I had to do. Then you can take out the bolts of the pump and remove it with a little tugging. Hope that this helps. You do not have to remove the timing cover or anything on the front of the engine.

 

I am trying to remove the water pump from my 24-45 and am trying to follow this thread for instructions and advice.

 

Just trying to understand...does the gear assembly have to be removed from the timing cover?  If so, why is it necessary to remove the split pin from under the big nut on the shaft coming out of the timing cover?

 

I have read that when removing or reinstalling the front gear, the fiber camshaft timing gear teeth can be shaved or stripped by the metal gear at the front of the water pump shaft, which is why I was hoping to drive out the spiral pin and pull the pump shaft out of the gear assembly at the timing cover, without actually pulling the gear out.

 

Is this possible, or what am I missing?

 

I already have the generator end shaft disconnected and free.

Edited March 2, 2016 by 27donb (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

I am trying to remove the water pump from my 24-45 and am trying to follow this thread for instructions and advice.

 

Just trying to understand...does the gear assembly have to be removed from the timing cover?  If so, why is it necessary to remove the split pin from under the big nut on the shaft coming out of the timing cover?

 

I have read that when removing or reinstalling the front gear, the fiber camshaft timing gear teeth can be shaved or stripped by the metal gear at the front of the water pump shaft, which is why I was hoping to drive out the spiral pin and pull the pump shaft out of the gear assembly at the timing cover, without actually pulling the gear out.

 

Is this possible, or what am I missing?

 

I already have the generator end shaft disconnected and free.

 

Can you post some pictures of what you have at this point?

[Leif Holmberg]

Just remove the hole unit with the gear at the same time.Be very carefully when removing the impeller just becuse they are casted,drill out the pin,no "hammer hit".

Leif in Sweden.

[27donb]

The engine is a 1925, and it is stuck.  As the start of process of elimination, I want to remove and rule out the water pump as being the part that is seized.

 

If I have to pull the gear along with the assembly, the starter generator has to come out first to make room I guess.

 

I thought the front pin could be driven out and the shaft could be separated from the assembly that attaches to the timing cover in the front, leaving that in place.

 

If not, I'm not sure why I had to drive out that front pin, it could be done on the bench later.  It came right out anyway, still working on cleaning up the rear shaft area so the collar will slide out of the way.

 

Is it any wonder why they discontinued this setup?