New LaCrosse

[Guest my3buicks]

Test drove a new LaCrosse AWD this eve! Fantastic car!!! A likely replacement for our 2003 Cadillac DTS. With a sticker of $38K it would leave money to burn as it is cheaper than the 2003 DTS was new. The car out drove the DTS in every respect and even better had lots of shiney chrome.

[Centurion]

Keith, thanks for the positive report! I've been watching for one of these, but the dealers in my area have not received them. In fact, they seem to have zero Buick inventory at the present time. I hope some of these arrive soon.

[Guest BJM]

38K ?

Too rich for my blood. The LuCerne was supposed to be the flagship car but I can buy a LuCerne I think - for 22K.

Pontiac is gone. Saturn is neutered. So if I want a GM car, all I can afford is a nice used unit or a new Chevrolet Malibu.

I don't understand it. Honda, Nissan, Toyota all have multiple tiers of products - all well equipped.

[Rawja]

I don't understand it. Honda, Nissan, Toyota all have multiple tiers of products - all well equipped.

To a large extent they sell their models worldwide, giving them the ability to have a full line of product even if some of them are not big sellers in any particular market.

[Guest BJM]

To a large extent they sell their models worldwide, giving them the ability to have a full line of product even if some of them are not big sellers in any particular market.

Roger,

Buick sells more cars in China then in the U.S.A. And they have had a good looking LaCrosse wannabe for 2-3 years now, to the chagrin of Buick fans in the USA.

[HurstGN]

38K ?

Too rich for my blood. The LuCerne was supposed to be the flagship car but I can buy a LuCerne I think - for 22K.

Pontiac is gone. Saturn is neutered. So if I want a GM car, all I can afford is a nice used unit or a new Chevrolet Malibu.

I don't understand it. Honda, Nissan, Toyota all have multiple tiers of products - all well equipped.

Jake,

That IS where Buick is going....high prices. From yesterday's web chat with Tim Lee, group vice president of global manufacturing and labor relations, the following was asked about the future of Buick:

[Comment From Lindsay ]

Hi Tim - I just wanted to say that I think you and the rest of the team at the New GM are doing a great job. I'm especially excited that you retained the Buick brand as I am a lifelong GM buyer and have my eye on an Enclave. Any new and exciting plans for Buick that you can share with us?

Tim Lee: Lindsay, thanks for the question. We are absolutely committed to re-establishing Buick as the preferred premium brand in the US and around the world. I used to be plant manager at Buick City so Buick is near and dear to me. Our VP at Buick Marketing, Susan Docherty is pushing and pushing for a great portfolio. You will like what you see coming into the Buick Showroom. As a test, please go and test drive a new Buick Lacrosse.

Preferred premium brand to me says it's top of the line, and that will include prices...unless I'm wrong on the meaning of premium.

Add to that the complete loss of the 2 seater. A question was asked about the Solstice/Sky:

[Comment From MIke ]

Tim & LIndsay...we have an Enclave and absolutely love it!! As well as the Solstice...to bad that went away. Maybe Buick could pick up the Saturn Sky since they have wanted a 2 seater forever.

Tim Lee: Mike, sorry but no chance atm.

So I took my shot bringing up the fact the Opel line gets the GT across the pond....:

[Comment From Dan ]

Buick has the Sky already in the form of the Opel GT, why isn't it available in the U.S.?

Tim Lee: Dan, neither the Sky nor the Opel GT will appear i the Buick store. Sorry.

So, goodbye fun 2 seater for those that wanted one. Might want to go grab one off the lot before their gone. I personally see this as a wrong move. Losing the "excitement" brand and products by Pontiac, and now making Buick the "Premium" line. OK, that may be nice for those swimming in $$ right now, but it's not a good fit in a tight economy. Apparently the premium brand is coming, as evidenced by the new LaCrosse, but at what price? At $38K, I'll jump in a fully loaded Camaro in a heartbeat. Nope, the LaCrosse is off my list of any car that I'd want to own at this point.

Looks my Grand Nationals will be my last Buicks that I own. Sad, because I would have liked to have a Blackhawk, or the gullwing Riviera. Oh well, Buick and I will part ways with these moves.

[TxBuicks]

Speaking of Grand Nationals....can you imagine the excitement a 'retro looking' GN would have on today's market? Every retro model is selling successfully. Examples are Mustang, Camero, Charger, Challenger, etc. The styling of a 1987 GN would be a perfect fit with a few modern changes, smoother lines, and so forth. Now that would get a younger crowd interested for sure. I still get excited when I see what's under the hood of those GNs and T-Types. What a great looking engine. There's nothing like that out there now.

[Guest BJM]

Dan,

I'm with you on the halo car. I would indeed pay $30,000 for a 2 seater Buick or a short wheelbase 4 seater 2 door model. I drive a 2004 Pontiac Bonneville now which was $28,000 new in 2004 so I am not opposed to spending my $$ BUT there are 3 in the family (wife daughter and me) and I spend 97% of the time in this car BY MYSELF!

So ,my next car will be a 2 seater or a small 2 door model. I simply do not need a 4 door LaCrosse or LuCerne and definitely do not want nor need an Enclave.

The future of the SUV is a shrunken market where the SUV purchase is of a 2-7 year old unit used for specialty purposes such as comfortable trips focusing on recreational purposes. I intend to purchase a full size Tahoe or GMC Denali in 2-3 years that I will get for pennies on the dollar but will be driven only 1500 miles a year or so.

BUT NOT for commuting. So Buick has dropped the ball - and to a larger extent so has GM - again. I am looking at Porsche Boxsters, the Hyundai Genesis coupe and a lower mileage Reatta or a combination thereof.

I heard recently on a nightly news show that GM booted a car program because of a focus group disapproval of it! My skin almost shivered. Harley Earl and Bill Mitchell are rolling in their graves. Imagine a "focus group" telling Bill Mitchell (and say this in a winey voice) "we don't like the looks of the Buick Riviera - it's too different"

[HurstGN]

Dan,

BUT NOT for commuting. So Buick has dropped the ball - and to a larger extent so has GM - again. I am looking at Porsche Boxsters, the Hyundai Genesis coupe and a lower mileage Reatta or a combination thereof.

I heard recently on a nightly news show that GM booted a car program because of a focus group disapproval of it! My skin almost shivered. Harley Earl and Bill Mitchell are rolling in their graves. Imagine a "focus group" telling Bill Mitchell (and say this in a winey voice) "we don't like the looks of the Buick Riviera - it's too different"

You would be referring to this news:

Reports from the Front

By Tom Stephens

GM Vice Chairman

Last week, we had a new and future product showcase at which employees, potential customers, dealers, media, analysts and others toured our Design facilities and test-drove vehicles at the Milford Proving Ground. The main reason we did it was to get people talking about us — and to us. And, this is the important part, when they talked, we listened.

And we got some great positive feedback… the future Cadillacs drew great praise, our GMC concept was very well received, and the lineup of fuel efficient Chevys — Spark, Aveo and Cruze — impressed many of our guests. Three future Buicks we showed also drew a lot of interest and compliments.

However, not all the feedback was positive.

The Buick crossover we showed received consistent feedback from large parts of all the audiences that it didn’t fit the premium characteristics that customers have come to expect from Buick.

You may recall that this was the Buick compact crossover I announced in Traverse City a few weeks ago, with a plug-in hybrid version to accompany it — this is not the smaller Buick crossover we showed that was playfully referred to as “the baby Enclave.” That vehicle did very well and remains in the lineup.

We were all struck by the consistency of the criticism of the compact crossover. And what we decided to do in response is a good example of the essence of the new General Motors… acting quickly, and boldly, and listening to feedback from customers, employees, dealers, media and just about anyone else with an opinion.

Last Friday, reaction to the Buick crossover was discussed at the meeting of our Executive Committee, the newly formed group that steers product decisions, and it was decided that if it didn’t belong, it didn’t belong. Buick crossover canceled. Fritz Henderson, Bob Lutz and I and the rest of the committee decided to take swift action to prevent a potential underperformer from reaching the marketplace. And we decided that the important plug-in hybrid technology would be applied to another vehicle, at no delay, that we’ll discuss in the very near future.

What gives me pause is how quickly we made a decision and carried it out. In the past this would have been a several-month process involving meeting after meeting of the APB, ASB, and various other acronyms, and also many “offline” follow-up discussions before a decision was reached and enacted. This happened in one day.

So there’s the proof, in my eyes, that the new GM is listening, and moving quickly. Watch this space.

Apparently the vehicle was not well received. Too bad they didn't do this before they made the Pontiac Aztek.

If you want to have some input on things, why not voice your opinion directly to Susan Docherty, General Manager, Buick GMC.

Webchat: Buick and GMC with Susan Docherty.

Please join Susan Docherty, General Manager, Buick GMC, at 12:30 p.m. Eastern Time on Monday, August 31, 2009 for a one-hour live chat to discuss GM’s plans for Buick and GMC as two of its core brands. Susan will take your questions regarding the renaissance of Buick, the launch of the 2010 Buick LaCrosse, and the new GMC Terrain, arriving this fall. Looking forward to hearing from you. - Dayna Hart, Group Manager, Buick GMC Communications

Go to GM FastLane and sign up for a reminder about this upcoming chat. I plan on asking about the Riviera concept car. Will it ever have the chance of seeing the light of day in a dealer's showroom? And will Buick ever produce a 2-door car again? I have a 2000 Bonneville, and I have 0 need for the 2 rear doors. The only reason I have it is because I couldn't find a decent supercharged Riv at the time, and I needed a car. The Bonneville has the same drivetrain...just too many doors to keep me overly happy. I too am all by myself on a 60 mile commute 5 days a week. Something sportier would be nice.

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[Guest THEHKP7M13]

I have no interest in any Buick at this time. Unless they make another Riviera, Reatta, or something 2 door (preferable t-type or grand sport) Buick isn't even on my radar. A retro GN/GNX would be nice too. There are so many ways Buick could go now that there is no Pontiac or Oldsmobile or Saturn but it sure looks like they are muffing it big time.

IF I WERE TO BUY A 4 DOOR IT WOULD BE REAR WHEEL DRIVE. NOW THAT PONTIAC IS DEAD (THANKS GM, YOUR STUPIDITY NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE ME) WHAT OH WHAT TO DO WITH ALL THE G8 CAPACITY???? HINT HINT WINK WINK COUGH COUGH!!!!

[Guest BJM]

Dan

I'm not sure Susan would listen to us about the 2 door halo car.

Look, the LaCrosse is great, a great evolution but remember 1971 when Buick introduced a Riviera Boattail and a new senior Electra and Centurion / Lesabre? All while having a still great looking Skylark / Skylark GS.

The Lucerne is still a great looking car loaded with uber luxury but the styling is long in the tooth. I don't think they have changed anything except maybe the aluminum wheels since introduction. Is it even slated for a new version?

[LINC400]

I think moving Buick back to premium territory is a smart move. Buick used to be a premium car up through the 1950's, and it did not seem to hurt their image or sales. Offering cheaper and cheaper models starting in the 1970's just cheapened their image and made them too much like their Chevy and Pontiac counterparts. Think of all the boxy 1980's clones.

I think a 2 seater would be a mistake. While it is nice for future collectors, it is just too impracticle to sell in any kind of numbers to make it worth producing. GM has tried 2 seaters many times and has never really succeeded with any of them except for the Corvette.

I would like to see a sporty 2 door with back seat though. Retro styling on that would be a plus as well. They should be able to build something like that on a current or future platform in order to save costs and produce an interesting car to attract younger buyers and increase showroom traffic the way Chrysler did with the Dodge Challenger.

[Thriller]

The automotive section of our local paper comes out on Fridays and there was an interesting piece. GM's jolt - Winnipeg Free Press Autos

I didn't read the entire piece, but the essence is that GM has more than the Volt and here's what to look for.

I still have a problem with product though. If Chev is to be basic transportation, Buick "premium" and Cadillac "luxury", then why not have similar products through the different lines with different levels of refinement (e.g. the Rainier was the same vehicle as Envoy and Trailblazer, but with Quiet Tuning and a more refined interior)? Chevrolet has 2 door models, as does Cadillac. So, why not Buick? Look at the Riviera through the years - nice style, but an upscale car overall. It seems pretty simple to me. Granted, mini-subcompacts probably won't make it as premium or luxury autos, but most of the others could be refined that way.

I'm still basically angry about Buick only having 3 models to choose from while other lines got all kinds of extra lines.

I could be wrong, but who wants a luxury wagon? That is, Cadillac is getting a wagon.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Thriller
Added Cadillac stupid wagon (see edit history)

[Guest THEHKP7M13]

Dan

I'm not sure Susan would listen to us about the 2 door halo car.

Look, the LaCrosse is great, a great evolution but remember 1971 when Buick introduced a Riviera Boattail and a new senior Electra and Centurion / Lesabre? All while having a still great looking Skylark / Skylark GS.

The Lucerne is still a great looking car loaded with uber luxury but the styling is long in the tooth. I don't think they have changed anything except maybe the aluminum wheels since introduction. Is it even slated for a new version?

They need 3 halo coupes/cars.

1.) Riviera, FWD off of an existing platform...A NO BRAINER.

2.) GN/GNX revival car off the now discontinued G8 platform.

2A.) If not possible work it off the Camaro platform AND USE THE FORMER G8 PRODUCTION FOR 40,000 BUICK PARK AVENUES A YEAR...TOP OF THE LINE BUICK!!!!

3.) Reatta, basically a shortened Riviera. Produce it to be profitable @5,000 units a year but have more production ready. Have it the true eye candy. Think Bengal concept.

IF BUICK CANNOT THINK BIG AND TAKE SWINGS SUCH AS THIS THEIR FATE WILL BE THE SAME AS OLDSMOBILE, PONTIAC, AND THE REST. THEY NEED THESE CARS (NOT CAR) FOR SHOWROOM TRAFFIC AS MUCH AS FOR CHANGING THE BRANDS IMAGE. PRODUCING A FEW SEDANS AND AN SUV ISN'T GOING TO CUT IT. THATS RIGHT BUICK KEEP LISTENING TO THE STUFFED SHIRTS AND YOUR CARS BY COMMITEE AND KEEP WATCHING YOUR SALES PLUMMET.

Tell Susan I am available for hire on a consultant basis only. It would be the wisest think Buick could do.

[HurstGN]

I'm in there right now....they won't even acknowledge any questions about the viability of the Riviera.....sad. They say they want feedback, then they actually answer a question

<TABLE><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class="chatmsgname viewer_text" noWrap>

</TD><TD class="chatmsgtext viewer_text viewer_text_size" style="BACKGROUND: #ffffff">[Comment From Slavko Miladinovic ]

Hi, Susan! Would you like to be my boss!

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Stupid....just stupid

[dship]

Obviously GM has not learned a thing from their bankruptcy. Continuing with basically the same management perpetuates the same company culture, i.e., lip service to John Q Public. I'm sure ROA members would love to see a new Riviera go into production (not a 4-door version either!!).

[Thriller]

I tried getting in a couple of comments / questions. Based on the folks that participated, there is strong curiosity, if not outright demand, for a 2 door...at least something beyond 4 door sedans and CUVs.

Of course, as previously mentioned, a lot of sidestepping, or outright NO when asked about a product.

Does anyone know Susan's background? I was surprised when she mentioned having had a GN as a company car up here in Manitoba.

[Guest BJM]

Yes. I do not think anybody argues about multi-branding a platform. IF - and this is the big IF - you basically get a "custom" body and interior specific to your brand of choice.

I.E. - a Riviera, a Chevrolet variant, another Buick 2 seater and a Cadillac variant on essentially the same platform tuned to the different market.

GM has been doing this since the 30's and everyone was happy. My 66 Gran Sport is the same as a 66 Chevelle, GTO, and 442 under the skin (OK, I know motors and all back then) but I like the tweaking Buick did to the body and interior.

[BUICK RACER]

I tried getting in a couple of comments / questions. Based on the folks that participated, there is strong curiosity, if not outright demand, for a 2 door...at least something beyond 4 door sedans and CUVs.

Of course, as previously mentioned, a lot of sidestepping, or outright NO when asked about a product.

Does anyone know Susan's background? I was surprised when she mentioned having had a GN as a company car up here in Manitoba.

You can go to back to the Fast Lane and enter comments or Buick | Facebook where they are also answering questions and comments.

Go to susan docherty - Google Search For some info on Susan.

Oh. yeah, I wanted to tell most GN's were BLACK at least to start with, some have changed colors, especially as racecars!

Hope that helps, I have seen a couple(2010 LaCrosse) but have not touched or driven. Saw a GMC Terrain on the way home tonight, very interesting vehicle. But I like Big Red GMC's better!

[Guest Bob Call]

We're looking at the demise of GM in the US. Development programs axed by "focus groups'? This is liberal socialist crap in the government run new GM. Tried in the Soviet block and didn't work, can you say "Tribi or Ziv"?

Formerly communist China is becoming the new home of free enterprise.

[Rawja]

We're looking at the demise of GM in the US. Development programs axed by "focus groups'? This is liberal socialist crap in the government run new GM. Tried in the Soviet block and didn't work, can you say "Tribi or Ziv"?

GM has been utilizing focus groups for decades and I assure you the Soviets most definitely didn't.

[Philippe Racicot]

You can go to back to the Fast Lane and enter comments or Buick | Facebook where they are also answering questions and comments.

Go to susan docherty - Google Search For some info on Susan.

Oh. yeah, I wanted to tell most GN's were BLACK at least to start with, some have changed colors, especially as racecars!

Hope that helps, I have seen a couple(2010 LaCrosse) but have not touched or driven. Saw a GMC Terrain on the way home tonight, very interesting vehicle. But I like Big Red GMC's better!

Thanks for the links Roberta, here are two other links for those who have suggestions for GM...

I'd really want a RWD Buick of any kind. I don't like FWD vehicles and I don't think I'll ever buy one again!

General Motors | GM Reinvention | Tell Fritz

GM FastLane

[NTX5467]

A few thoughts . . .

Lutz mentioned the possibility of the G8-type vehicle becoming a Chevrolet. This is a no-brainer considering that Holden builds a "Chevrolet Caprice" for the Saudi Arabian-area market, which is a re-bodied G8, basically--same engines and everything. Also, a Holden Caprice for the Oz home market. About all I suspect it would take would be the necessary paperwork with the EPA, due to the sameness of it and the G8. Go to General Motors | Corporate Website | GM, then click on Saudi Arabia for the products sold there.

G8 production was originally scheduled to be about 20,000/year until they might have moved it up here, several years after introduction. I suspected, then, that with the Camaro coming online with a similar platform, this could generate a rwd Chevy sedan as a companion product up here. I suspect that 20,000 Chevy Caprices could be sold up here, without too much problem.

It's been mentioned that with the coming fuel economy standards for 2016, of 33.5mpg fleet average, many mass market performance vehicles might fade away. Including the Chevy SS models. "Get 'em while their hot!"?

Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky, and the Opel GT all come from the same factory, which is slated to close. Wanting to save one means you save them all, plus generate NEW or freshened product for them, too. When the initial "survival plan" papers were filed, all Saturn products would go away as each platform's age dictated it--basically 2012 or so. A month or so ago, the Solstice was "dead product" on the lots, although it's one heck of a sporty economy car. The coupe reminds me of a downsided '63 Jag XKE coupe. Recently, only about 15000 Pontiacs existed nationwide, much less than was anticipated at this point in time.

I, too, was concerned with the price point for the 2010 LaCrosse. I was not concerned with the lower end price, but the higher-end price levels. Something like $38K just seems a little to high to me! Still, you can nicely option a fwd CXL for about $32K MSRP. A V-6 GMC Terrain with trailer package and nav is about the same.

When the Cadillac DTS changes, so will the Lucerne--same platform, same plant. It has been noted that the DTS replacement will be sized more like a BMW 7-series. I think the possibility of rwd exists, too. The CTS Sport Wagon is what the SRX should have been to start with, as the SRX is slightly downsized and moves more into Lexus RX territory. The orig SRX was more BMW X-5 than Lexus or Volvo-oriented.

I initially suspected that when the CTS coupe happened, there would be a companion Buick product, but I might have been mistaken. With the basic CTS sedan, adding the Sport Wagon and the Coupe is modifying the basic CTS sedan rather than a new platform. As I recall, Lansing Grand River was designed to accomodate 5 different products. It now seems that all five of them might be CTS model body styles?

Putting "Premium" back into the Buick dialogue is great! To me, that means more than "luxury" or "near-luxury" means in the current model level nomenclature. "Premium" can happen with ANY vehicle size or orientation, but "luxury" usually means $$$$$$$.

Regards,

NTX5467

[Centurion]

Just drove the first '10 Lacrosse received by Gilchrist Buick in Tacoma. I was the first person to drive it other than the two salesmen.

Wow! Very impressive inside and out. Extremely comfortable, quiet, smooth-riding. Rear seat leg room was excellent.

The car was the CXL in White Diamond, FWD with the 3.0 engine and chrome wheels. Seemed to have lots of get-up-and-go in city driving.

Two observations from someone who typically drives older model cars:

1) New cars with all the airbags, etc. have much thicker A-pillars, which take awhile to get used to.

2) The new cars seem much taller than the older models.