Natureboy Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Hello,I've made several post concerning a problem with my 1990 Reatta. I've changed just about everything in the secondary ignition system. The car was missing when it used to warm up. I've replaced the plugs, plug wires, two ignition modules, 3 coil packs, iac sensor, O2 sensor, cat converter. I was inspecting the crankshaft sensor and found the wires fused together, two of the four wires had bare spots, I cleaned and spliced the wires together and wrapped them in electrical tape and put them in conduit. After reparing the wires, I also thru in another ignition module. After that the car ran worse. It misses all the time now. I also had the ECM replaced and had the manifold intake gaskets replaced. Hopefull someone who has that this problem will read this and save me from anymore grief this car is causing me. Getting desperate and broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bobby Valines Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Is it a constant miss or just at idle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 It's consistant now where as before it was only when it warmed up. I was just out looking at the purge cannister and noticed the vaccum hose was worn out and collapsing when vaccum was applied. Replaced the rubber hose and no help. I'm looking at everything now because I'm all out of ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Richard D Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Maybe a shop that can put it on a scope to check spark voltages and timing, etc. It is possible you got a bad wire or plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 Changed the plug wires and put two sets of plugs in it already, Kinda think that has been eliminated, but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Pull the plugs and gap to .040-.045 and while out run a compression check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 I think I asked this before in another thread but I don't remember getting an answer. Have you checked the compression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bobby Valines Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 How many miles? Have you tried unplugging the coil so it just cranks listen for a steady cranking there shouldn't be any kind of skip, that will tell you if it has a bad valve, or bad compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Grape minds think alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bobby Valines Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 I think we were all typing at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Wow Padgett... you beat my post by 4 seconds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 One thing I noticed before the current condition, was the car would run good until it warmed up, pulled plug wires and was getting fire at coil on all 6 when cold. Drove it and warmed up, it started missing and check fire at the coil and # 3 & #6 was not firing. But after fixing the wires at the crankshaft sensor and replacing the ignition module I've got a whole new firing problem, Took it to the shop and it looked like the #2 was intermittant with a weak fire and #5 was not firing and now the miss is constant. Used to only miss after warm up. Replaced the coil pack again today and no help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 Ronnie, I'm on your site right now reading the manual in chapter O6I Engines, very helpful. I am reading about the purge cannister and on a previous post I stated that the rubber hose was collapsing at the cannister solenoid when there was vaccum. Could that be a problem? Say's a inop purge cannister can cause poor idling, stalling and poor driveability. I'm grasping now.Padgett, I will also regap the plugs 040 - 045 and see if that does anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 <span style="font-size: 26pt">HAVE YOU CHECKED THE COMPRESSION?</span> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 We had it on a sun scope and was told they can check the compression with the scope? Other then that, No haven't checked compression yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Checking compression is the best test to determine the internal condition of your engine. I don't trust the scope to check compression. Get a gauge and check it just for peace of mind since you have had so many problems. If a cylinder is too low you will not get the engine to run properly no matter what else you do to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 Will do Ronnie, I'm also gonna change out the solenoid on the purge cannister. Keep the ideas and suggestions coming, I appreciate any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Are you replacing your coil packs with the square Magnavox or the round Delcos? Also did you clean up the Ignition Control Module and then spray it down with Electric Contact Cleaner? If you replaced the coil pack with the Delco, you can move the individual round coils around. This would help you isolate the coils [if that was the problem]. Also get a spark plug wire tester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 Well think I found the problem. After replacing alot of parts, I reinstalled the orginal igniton module and it smoothed out the car and it drives just fine but then starts to have a slight miss after warming up. The problem is I think the orginal module is heating up and causing the miss. Replaced the ignition module twice but replaced it with two cheap O'reilly house brand modules. Both of them turned out to be bad. Word of advise, don't skimp on electrical parts, Buy OEM electrical parts if possible even if you have to spend more money. It sure saves alot of grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Bad injector? Can you narrow the affected cylinder(s)? You can turn the injectors on and off in diagnostic overide mode. Deactivate IAC so it doesn't correct idle speed and turn each injector on and off in sequence to see if there is a cylinder imbalance. Also, give the MAF the "tap test". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 "After warmed up" - do you mean after 2-4 minutes at 70-80f ? If so that is when the computer goes "closed loop: and turns off the cold enrichment increasing the strain on a weak ignition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 Warmed car up and took ED readings, Everything was in normal range except ED20 BLM Fuel Block learn multipier was reading 144 and would hop to 150 every now and then. ED19 INT Fuel (Fuel Integrator) was hovering around 128 +- 3. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Yeah, put your year on your signature line Other than that what ignition module do you now have on the car? Your last post said that you put the original one back on. Is that true and if so is it the square Magnavox? I think you should go to a salvage yard and get a Delco [round coils]. And while you are at it be sure to clean up the Ignition Control Module before installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 It's a magnavox and it's a known good one off my 89 reatta . No help. Seems to be something else other then a ignition module. Compression check turned out ok. Thanks Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 For Ronnie's benefit what were your compression readings? Also 2 seater suggested "tapping on the MAF sensor". I agree. However if you have a known good one [from your '89], swap that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnemac Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I had a mysterious miss and worked on it til I gave up on it and took it to a repair shop. The shop is good but they were baffled and suggested replacing the computer-which did not solve it. I had the battery and alternator checked out and they checked ok. I took the alternator in for a second time and it was tested and shown good on the tester. I said run it one more time and it failed! Replaced alternator and all is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-a-n-i-e-l Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Possible bad EGR valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-a-n-i-e-l Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Any answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Sorry it's taken me so long to respond to posts. Ronnie the compression readings were all around 145. I have the car in the shop and ask a mechanic to check the crankshaft sensor and replace if necessary. He went ahead and replaced it, but while replacing the sensor didn't check for bent blades on the harmonic balancer. He reinstalled the balancer and you could hear the blades contacting the new sensor when the car was started. He took the balancer back off and using the special tool, found a couple blades bent and making contact with the sensor. I took a quick glance at the new sensor while the balancer was off and could'nt tell if it had been damaged. It didn't look like any damage was done. We looked at the old sensor and it had been damaged and had a grove in it from the bent balancer blades. He straighten the blades out and put the special tool back on the balancer and you could hear a slight contact of the tool rubbing on one of the blades. He seemed to think this was not a problem and reinstalled the balancer. Started the car and couldn't hear any contact between blades and sensor. Test drove the car and same problem. Could this of been the problem and still is and should the balancer and sensor be replaced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Please add the year of your Reatta to your signature line. That way we are not continuously going back and scanning your posts to see what model your Reatta is. It will make it easier for us to help you in the future.To add to your signature line click: "My Stuff -> Profile" and scroll down the page to the signature box.Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 I'll do that Ronnie, but what do you think about the post I just made concerning the crankshaft sensor and balancer blades.The car is a 1990 Reatta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Thanks for adding your model year to your signature line.The compression of 145 should not be causing the miss.I don't think the slightly bent blades would cause a miss as long as they are intact and the sensor was not damaged.Let us get down to the nitty gritty of the miss. We need to know exactly what is happening.Is is the missing at idle?Does it miss worse under acceleration?Does it feel like the engine is completely shutting off when you feel the miss?Does the engine seem to have adequate power when it is missing?Does the miss seem like one cylinder is never running at all?Does the engine die if you suddenly mash the accelerator pedal t the floor?Does the car ever jump an jerk when accelerating?Does the engine ever backfire?Does the car surge when the throttle is held steady and you are cruising at 50 mph?If you will give detailed answers to those questions it will help us better understand what you are experiencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Ronnie,It's so inconsistant but:1. It misses at idle after it warms up sometimes. Idles fine when cold.2. Yes it seems worse during acceleration after warming up. Accelerates fine when cold.3. No it doesn't feel like it is completely shutting down when miss is occuring.4. Possibly but not sure if it's a cylinder never running.5. The engine never dies when depressing the accelerator.6. Sometimes the car seem to jerk and jump when at cruise and the car shifts into overdrive.7. The engine has never backfired.8. No it doesn't surge at cruise doing 50 mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 It appears the engine runs good when cold and bad when it heats up.Two things come to mind that could happen to cause the problem1 - Fuel mixture is incorrect when the engine warms up past ~140° and the fuel system goes into closed loop operation. This could be due to the ECM receiving bad data from a sensor or a bad ECM.2 - Some electrical component (example: ignition module) is breaking down when it gets hot. I know you have replaced most of them but at this point you can't take anything for granted.As a test, to try to isolate the problem, I would disconnect the wire going to the O2 sensor. Then drive the car to see if the miss appears after driving long enough to get everything warmed up. Disconnecting the O2 sensor will keep the fuel system from going into closed loop operation. When in open loop operation it doesn't depend on the sensor to determine fuel mixture but instead uses data tables burned into the computer. You will get an error code 44 or 45 (maybe others) set in the computer and maybe a warning will appear on the dash but ignore both for this test. Also, the TCC will not lock up so RPM will be higher at cruising speeds than normal.Report your results here. Then we will proceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 Ronnie,The BLM is 140 when warmed up and goes up to 150 when coming to a stop. I just got a ECM with prom chip from Jim Finn and put it in last week. I will give the O2 test a try and get back with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 Ronnie,Might of found something. Was looking at the wiring from the ignition module up to the ECM, I found the O2 sensor had two places where the insulation was cracked and missing, exposing bare wire. Wonder if that is the problem, Bare wire showing in the hot engine compartment and when it got hot, it started messing up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 BLM of 150 at idle is typical. 140 when driving sounds a little high as if the engine "thinks" it is running too lean, I'd like something closer to 130. Have you tried running injector cleaner through it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Yea I threw a couple bottles of injector cleaner in it. Padgett what do you think of the O2 sensor line open showing bare wire in two spots? Could that cause it to run lean and miss? The wiring on this care is in pretty sad shape. found quite a few wires with missing insulation, exposing bare wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Not sure, O2 is the kind of thang that either works or sets a code. If clogged it can be rong but you said it has been changed. Are you sure the EGR is ok and there is no vacuum leak ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natureboy Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Not sure of anything on this car. I got it in the garage and going to take my time and try and check out as much as I can. I was thinking maybe because of the open wire on the O2 sensor, it was giving the ECM all kinds of crazy readings? From what I could tell though, The wire was not touching anything. It was up in the wire bundle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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