Sunshine Turret Tops in Buicks

[Guest DaveCorbin]

I've been asked for some information that apparently has been lost. The request is: How many Sunshine Turret Top Buicks were built? I know what models the sunroof option was used on and have seen a few in 39 years in the BCA.

IF you have or know of any sunroof Buicks, even if it's in a junkyard, that are in the 1939-1940-1941 model years, I need the following information:

Year

Model and Fisher style number

Body Number

Frame number

Engine number

All of the above are critical for each car so I can construct accurate time estimates as to exactly when each car was built and exactly how far into each year's model run each sunroof job is.

Post it here or send me a PM.

Regards,Dave Corbin

[Guest BJM]

Goldenrod Garage has a 39 -

http://www.goldenrod-garage.com/DETAIL.ASP?DT=1&CI=2&UI=675&MI=1&DH=0

[Glassesguy]

Dave:

Dan Myers in Lindsey, Ohio has a 39 Model 41. Sliding panel is missing. Used to have dual sidemounts. Will ask Dan to get the numbers you requested.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Dave:

Thanks for the help.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Come on,guys!! I've put in the effort to write the analysis routinues to do this project. Now I need some REAL car info. Please help me with real numbers !!!

Regards, Dave Corbin

[1939_Buick]

Can a paragraph be placed in the Buick Bugle by the editor ?

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Ok, Guys:

I've gotten two cars worth of information. First, they confirm that my calculation idea does work. Second, I am now sure that the turret top ("A" suffix added to body style number)) cars got their own sequence of body numbers, starting at 1 and continuing in parallel with the regular standard body numbers.

I need your help! SEND ME YOUR NUMBERS, I'll get this figured out yet!!

Regards, Dave Corbin

[TG57Roadmaster]

Dave,

This is an incomplete compilation I started about 10 years ago,

before being hooked up to "these Internets."

1939 Mod. 41A (Owned by J.P. Cook, Greenwood, SC)

Style No. 39-4419A

Body No. 198

Trim No. 700

Paint No. 540

Serial No. 13511900

Motor No. 4-3689038

1939 Mod. 48A (Leo Seydel, Bolton, Ont.)

Style No.

Body No.

Trim No.

Paint No.

Serial No. 13583268

Motor No.

1940 Mod. 41A (Ed Carroll, has dual sidemounts)

Style No. 40-4419A

Body No. 12

Trim No.

Paint No.

Serial No. 13601596 (Have note: Built Friday, Sept. 1, 1939; no corroboration)

Motor No.

1940 Mod. 61A (Dan Slowik, has dual sidemounts)

Style No. 40-4619A

Body No. 41

Trim No. 808

Paint No. 542

Serial No. 13783951

Motor No. 6-3928723

1940 Mod. 61 (Doug Nelson, Salem, OR, dual sidemounts)

Style No. 40-4619

Body No. C16

Trim No. 808

Paint No. 541

Serial No. 23602414

Motor No. RE506764

Don't know why this last Century has odd numbers and no "A" suffix for the STTop;

but I'm sure you will. Canadian? Rebuilt motor?

Hope this helps; as I said, all this info was from '99,

so no telling who owns or where the cars are now.

I'd hoped to start a Sunshine Turret Top Registry...

TG

These, BTW, are very cool cars (with a sunroof shared by some Cad/LaSalle models),

and deserve the attention and research Dave is giving them; patents are/were held

by GM's Ternstedt Hardware Division. This was J.P. Cook's '39 10 years ago...

Larger, click once after opening.

I realize it pertains to GM's <span style="font-style: italic">other</span> prestige marque, but how'd you like to have a

Fleetwood 60-Special with a factory Sunshine Turret Top?!

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Tom:

Thanks for the info. It will be very helpful.

To answer your question about the odd numbers on the last car, they do all make sense as follows:

The C prefix on the car body number indicates that this body was built in the Fisher plant in "C"alifornia, and this is confirmed by the 2 leading the frame number, as 2 is the plant code for the Southgate, California, Plant.

The engine with the RE is a factory built "R"eplacement "E"ngine, which Buick built to replace engines broken or worn out during WW2. It was built later, probably in about 1946. IF the dealer followed instructions, and it appears they did, the original engine number was most probably 4-3,706,764.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear 1939:

Pete is going to have one in the May 2009 Bugle issue. Thanks for the suggestion.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Bryan:

I called Neil Martin at Goldenrod and he was kind enough to get me the numbers off of his car. It's body 74.

It was built the last week of 1939 production, and, because of that, the predictor gives a total number only 1 car larger and a 99% certainity that there were no more than 76 1939 model 48's built.

Score a big one for your lead!!! Also, a BIG PUBLIC "THANKS!!!" to Neil.

Regards, Dave Corbin

PS: Any of you guys looking for a probably one of a kind 39 to restore, HERE"S YOUR CHANCE !!! Turret top 2 door with Factory trim code 705 (Green Leather) and Paint code 532 (Dark Verde Green). WOW!!

[Guest BJM]

Dave,

Funny you should mention. I check Goldenrod Garage often for new arrivals and sales. As for the 39 Neal has, personally, the 2 door sedan bodystyle is my favorite in 1939-1940.

I like the 1940 Roadmaster 2 door club coupe but in the Specials/Century I like the large glass areas on the 2 door sedans and the graceful C pillars. Now add in that that car is so very rare and it should draw some interest BUT Neal is asking nearly $6000 for a car needing a lot of work. I think it is more like a $3000 car.

[Guest imported_Thriller]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveCorbin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> PS: Any of you guys looking for a probably one of a kind 39 to restore, HERE"S YOUR CHANCE !!! Turret top 2 door with Factory trim code 705 (Green Leather) and Paint code 532 (Dark Verde Green). WOW!! </div></div>

Whimper...Suzanne likes green...we don't have a car from the '30s...yet...but there's no room in the Buick Barn and I'm not sure how quickly I'll get to building the second one

[Guest BJM]

Derek

That almost seems to me to be a specifically ordered Buick. Verde green with green leather and Sunshine Turret. By 1939 things were looking up a little for the American economy - perhaps someone could afford to option out and special order such a car.

Makes me wonder? Was leather ordered because the owner felt he might forget to close the top (as convertibles have leather or vinyl interiors)

For my purposes the 2 best colors in 1939 are the Verde Green or whatever the tan color is called, Tan being very Art Deco. Dave sorry to hijack your post, this will be my last comment on the GG 39 Special. Hope you find more of these rare cars.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Bryan:

I thought about your comment of a "special order" car. I would tend to agree with you. This car was built on the next-to-last or last day of 1939 production, very late in June.

What's probable then? Graduation gift? Wedding gift? If it was either of those, my guess is that the recipient was a woman. A guy would get a black one with red leather for himself.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

To all:

Progress report: I now have 5 cars in the study, but keep them coming. I do not have any 1939 Model 68A's or any 1940 Model 48A's. Also, all cars so far are Flint built. I have to think there are some Southgate and Linden cars out there somewhere.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">BCA'ers on the East Coast and on the West Coast, I need your help!!</span>

The preliminary calculations sure do confirm rarity, probably not more than 7/10ths of 1%.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[TG57Roadmaster]

To add to Dave's summation, FYI...

Pertaining to GM's <span style="font-style: italic">Sunshine Turret Top</span> sunroof option, they were available on Buick, LaSalle,

and Cadillac bodies in '39, '40, and (some sources say for) '41.

1939-40 Buick Special Model 41A (4-dr sedan), 48A (2-dr sedan), 61A (Century 4-dr sedan).

1939 Buick Special 48A ,from AQ's <span style="font-style: italic">General Motors, The First 75 Years</span>.

1939-40 LaSalle two & four-door sedans. '39 LaSalle Model 5011A 2-dr sedan, 23 produced.

(I have no figures for for other '39 or '40 LaSalles).

From the 1940 LaSalle prestige brochure.

1939-40 Cadillac Series 61 & 60-Special. 1939 Cadillac Model 6119A 4-dr sedan, 43 produced.

1939 60-Special, Model 6019SAF(Formal), 225 made; 6019SA, 55 produced.

1940 60-Special Model 6019SA, 30 produced. (From the Cadillac Database).

All the GM Sunshine roof cars have an "A" after their model number, an easy way to differentiate

between standard-roof cars. There's a '39 Buick Special 41A about an hour away from me,

the only one I've seen in person.

FYI,

TG

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Hey Guys & Gals:

I'm still looking for more cars. Nobody has sent me anything for a couple of weeks.

Remember, I need the:

Frame number

Engine number if possible

Body number

Year

Style and Model

Regards, Dave Corbin

[42crazy]

I have been told that Oldsmobile also had the Sunshine Turret Top, am I correct ? I believe I saw one advertised some time back, somewhere. Paul

[TG57Roadmaster]

Paul,

I see no mention of it in my '40 Olds brochure (don't have a '39 brochure), but have never heard of an Olds so-equipped. More research?

TG

[42crazy]

I just checked in my 'The Cars of Oldsmobile' book, by Dennis Casteele, and on page 177, there is an article on the '39 with the Sunshine Turret Top, along with a picture. Then, on page 181, there's another article on the '40, along with the price of $37.50 for the option, but few if any '40 models came so equipped. So, are there any out there, ????? But, I do remember seeing an article with one for sale, but, can't remember where or when. Paul

[Guest BJM]

Speculative, since I am a generalist and not expert on these BUT - I would have thought that GM would offer the Turret Sunshine Top on all applicable body types - especially since bodies were made by Fisher then shipped to individual plants for assembly into their respective make.

Why not Olds then as I believe their midsize sedan - two and four door shared the body stamping with Buick Special and the smaller LaSalle.

As for it's non mention in the 1940 Olds catalog - I would say perhaps Olds was not sold on the idea and had other things to crow about in 1940 (re:Hydromatic). More research indeed would be welcome.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

For all reading "39 Buick"

Here's the Turret Top thread FYI

Regards, Dave Corbin

[1939_Buick]

From post 17 by michaelod in http://forums.aaca.org/f165/1939-buick-278081.html#post741422 thread

Here is a project car with the Sunshine Turret Top for sale in California:1939 Buick Special four door project

Edited March 10, 2010 by 1939_buick
added image (see edit history)

[Guest wasif]

There was one 39 Buick Century with a sun roof in India specifically in the city of Hyderabad. This car had twin sidemounts too and was owned by the last Prime Minister of that state before 47 when it was merged with India.

There is a very interesting story attached to this car.

The unusual bit about it was that there was a tag on the right side of teh car low down between the front door frame and the wheel arch which said body by Fleetwood. It was said to have been custom ordered by this first owner.

Not sure where it is now.

[1939_Buick]

A green 39 turret top up for auction as this in thread: http://forums.aaca.org/f115/buicks-williamsville-illinois-auction-june-26-a-283716.html

Auction here:- Luke Lee Gaule & David Lee Gaule

JUNE 26, 2010 SATURDAY 10:00AM

RT 66 DREAM CAR MUSEUM

36 AUTOS, 13 MOTORCYCLES & TRACTORS AT AUCTION

Old Rt 66, Williamsville, Illinois just South of Casey’s on Old Rt 66, former IGA Store.

Watch for auction signs.

Edited June 16, 2010 by 1939_buick
added image (see edit history)

[TG57Roadmaster]

I'm adding this here even though it's a '39 LaSalle with Sunshine Turret Top done in

1/43rd scale by Brookiln of England...

Larger, click once after opening to enlarge.

This model was discontinued in early-2010 after a long production run; curiously,

LaSalle broke out the numbers of STT's (as did Cadillac and Olds), unlike the Buick.

From the 50 Years of American Automobiles, 1939-1989, the numbers are as follows...

1939 LaSalle:

Model---Style------Production

5011----2dr T/B*--------977

5011A---STT 2dr T/B-----23

5019----sdn 4dr T/B----15,928

5019A--STT sdn 4dr T/B---404

5027----cpe, 2-4p, opt.seats---2,525

5029----conv sdn, 5p-------185

5067----conve cpe, 2-4p---1,056

chassis-----29

1939 Oldsmobile:

Model--------Style-----Production

Series 70---2dr sdn---19,442 (incl. 17 STT sdns)

Series 70---4dr sdn---38,224 (incl. 81 STT sdns)

Series 80---2dr sdn-----1,571 (incl. 7 STT sdns)

Series 80---4dr sdn---13,197 (incl. 85 STT sdns)

Interesting numbers, and given that Brooklin uses actual cars to measure for their models,

we know that there's at least 1 (one) LaSalle Series 50 2-door STT Touring Sedan extant...

TG

* T/B stands for Trunk Back

Edited September 1, 2010 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[Guest Fred_S]

Long after the discussion, but I have a 60 Special with factory sunshine roof. 1939 model 6019FA - A denoting the sunshine top.

[Barney Eaton]

I have a copy of "1939 Buick, prices, colors, equipment, accessories" dated Dec 1, 1938

it list the STT as a $37.50 option on Buick models 41 (Special 4dr touring sedan), 48 (Special 2 dr touring sedan), 61 (Century 4dr touring sedan)

[Guest wasif]

Long after the discussion, but I have a 60 Special with factory sunshine roof. 1939 model 6019FA - A denoting the sunshine top.

Please post some pictures of both

[Guest wasif]

I have got pics of a 39 Buick Sedan with a sunroof from the Indian classic car forums. the link is below and the pics are attached.

Nostalgic pictures of our family's cars - Team-BHP

It turns out my friend harit, who posted these pics ( he collects old cars and old pics) has a second owner 39 Buick Seven Seater Limo that has a sun roof too. I will ask him for the numbers on teh car and a picture.

So to my knowledge there are atleast three 39 Buicks in Indis with the Turret top.

the 39 Century in Hyderabad, harit;s 39 Super Limo and teh one in these pictures, not sure if thsi oen survives today though

[RDMSTER]

These wonderful photos serve as a reminder of how highly thought of Buicks were internationaly in the '20's and 30's. This of course is why Buick exists today-specifically due to the Chinese Communist government's request of General Motors that Buick be the car manufactured in China vs. the other divisional offerings. China's request-due to Buick's high regard in that nation pre WW II-saved it from the ax which swung over Olds and Pontiac.

[1939_Buick]

I have got pics of a 39 Buick Sedan with a sunroof from the Indian classic car forums. the link is below and the pics are attached.

Nostalgic pictures of our family's cars - Team-BHP

Almost certainly a series 40 special [front fender close to door] : early production model as has the small wiper transmission & the early grille

Some fine old cars in India (including 1939 Buick's). The India web site has some very good images, such as post 139 in http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/pre-war/28055-pranlal-bhogilal-collection-auto-world-dasthan-kathwada-gujarat-10.html [some usual paint color here!]

Edited September 24, 2011 by 1939_buick (see edit history)

[Guest wasif]

Almost certainly a series 40 special [front fender close to door] : early production model as has the small wiper transmission & the early grille

Some fine old cars in India (including 1939 Buick's). The India web site has some very good images, such as post 139 in Pranlal Bhogilal Collection - Auto World - Dasthan - Kathwada - Gujarat - Page 10 - Team-BHP [some usual paint color here!]

That is the museum that houses the largest one man car collection in India. The cars belonged to the Late Pranlal Bhogilal....probably the earliest car collector in India.

[BOPcollector]

8 years ago, I owned a 1940 Buick Special 2dr sedan with the sunshine turret top sunroof. I bought it from an older gentleman in Clearwater Fl for $800. and it was running, It came with a bunch of extra parts. I still have the extra front seat stored away. It was somewhat apart but I bolted the body parts back together and drove it around. The one I had was originally a med. metallic green with tan cloth upholstery. I didn't record any numbers ,so I am not able to provide any Ser# info but did sell it to a guy in Ruskin about a year afterwards. I really should have not sold it.

Edited June 5, 2015 by BOPcollector (see edit history)

[TG57Roadmaster]

Overpriced STT '40 Fleetwood 6019SA on ebay.

FYI,

TG

[Dynaflash8]

As far as I'm concerned, Glacier Blue Metallic was the prettiest '39 Buick color. My car is a Model 41 with full dark blue leather interior and dual sidemount tires. My '39 Buick 46-C convertible coupe was one of the last, built in June or July 1939, and it's sort of a weird combination. It is Lasson Green Metallic (a mid-year introduction color - sort of medium green metallic) and the interior is dark red.....I call it my Christmas car. My '39 41-C was a very early car, Nov 1938, and it was pretty ordinary in black with brown upholstery, but now it is Sequoia Cream with maroon upholstery. I've been a '39 Buick nut since childhood and seen many, and had many of these cars. I've only seen three sunroof Specials, one model 48 and two model 41's. The one Model 41 was for sale at Hershey, and the seal around the top was so bad you could see light around it. The other one was a nice car in gray that belonged to an early CHVA member who lived in or around Philadelphia. The Model 48 was a car, parked unused, at the back of a driveway in Arlington, VA several blocks from my parents home in an area called Barcroft. It was light green, and the date was around 1953 or 1954. As memory fades, I'm not quite sure if the Philadelphia car was a Model 41 or a Model 48. It had a lady owner who was active in the club.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Hey, Dynaflash8, you need to post some pics of that green '39 with red interior. Poor John Fesser, up on the AACA Restoration thread is catching He** for doing his Avanti that combo.

Ben

[BOPcollector]

Overpriced STT '40 Fleetwood 6019SA on ebay.

FYI,

TG

This 60-S was for sale on Craigslist in Macon,Ga. last summer. No phone number or contact or price. I inquired through CL with no response what so ever. The ad mentioned it was an inherited car and did not run. It disappeared soon after. Too many 0's on the Epay listing.

[BOPcollector]

The one that I owned in 2003  looks as if I will be gaining ownership again as I have located it nearby. The only info for now I can offer is that it is a 1940 Model 48 2 dr with the Sunshine Turret Top. I was told that it was sold new in the Erie ,Pa. area. The VIN is 13796838. I will update this info after I acquire the car.

Edited June 5, 2015 by BOPcollector (see edit history)