sequential turn signals

[DAVES89]

BTW had my wife step on the brakes today. Cooler than cool! They are sequential too

[Guest CL_Reatta]

Someone needs to take a video and post it

[Ronnie]

<div id="body29">

The following is an update to Dave's tutorial:

(It can also be found on ReattaOwner.com)

<hr>

I went out & purchased some wire to extend the wires on the sequential turn signal modules. They are definitely to short to mount the modules in the trunk, as the instructions call for.

Preparing to install the kit:

<ul>

[*] Remove the taillight

assembly and lay on rear bumper.

[*]Twist the outside 3 sockets out of

their retainers on each side and lay in the space between taillight

assembly and back of car. You may not want to turn key to run

and turn on directional as you will run down battery before you finish.

You can periodically turn the car to the "run" position and check your

work. I ended up using my battery charger to keep the car powered up.

[*]

Drill a 3/8" hole between the two taillight hold down bolts

located closest to the trunk latch. There is an indention there and

the sequential controller lies perfectly there.

[*]Repeat on drivers side. Install grommet [not supplied] Run all the wires thru.

See the photos below

PASSENGER SIDE:

<ul>

[*]

On innermost of the three sockets:

Scotch lock the red wire to the green

wire. Then the black wire to the black wire also using a scotchlock connector.

[*]

Middle socket:

Snip the green wire and attach the white wire to the

green wire coming out of the pigtail.

[*]Tape off the snipped green wire

end coming from the harness.

[*] Outer socket:

Snip both green leads,

attach blue wire to both green pigtail leads. Tape off each green lead

from the harness by themselves.

DRIVER SIDE:

Do the same

as above only you are working with the yellow wires. The one exception

is that the middle outlet [on mine anyway] has the two leads. I snipped

them both, causing the outside light not to work. I then had to wire

the white wire to one of the snipped pigtails and reconnect the "other"

yellow wire back together to be a "traveler" lead to the outside

outlet.I then taped off the lead coming from the harness.

The

outside pigtail only had one yellow lead which I snipped and the

attached the blue lead to, also taping off the lead coming from the

harness.

In essence on my car it may have looked like the middle

and outside lights were reversed, (compared to the passenger side),

because if you remember, when I wired the passenger side, the wire

harness had two green leads at the outer bulb where the drivers side

had one green lead at the outer bulb.

All in all the directions were pretty straight forward, it just takes time to figure out where to put the sequential

controller and figuring out the wiring. First side took about an hour,

second side 15 minutes. I had to take breaks which made my time even

longer as I ran my battery all the way down and then had to wait for it

to power up...

<div align="center">

</div>

</div>

Daves89

[Bushwack]

...and nearly three years later, I've taken on this endeavor.

Started installing the STS-1 kit today. Ran into problems. With the installation on the passenger side only, when activating the turn signal, bulbs would only go sequential once and not cycle and stay illuminated (as if I am depressing the brake pedal). Or...lights would only go sequential once when braking (having nothing to do with the turn signal). Or...middle bulb wouldn't turn on, and a few other undesired scenarios. Did so many different ways of configuring the wiring that we (w/ the bro-in-law) ran out of ideas and daylight. We are at the point of thinking the module is bad and will switch it out with the other.

We will also get started early tomorrow morning so if needed, we can call tech support (I'm in L.A, they are in Ohio). Dave89's instructions were helpful and bst be used in conjunction with the manufacturer's write-up. From what I've read, the end result (when installed correctly) is...

- each side should go sequential (and cycle) when turn signal is activated.

- tail lights and/or brake lights should work just as if the STS-1 was not installed.

- there is no need to feed a wire towards the dash (not necessary).

If the installation is successful, I'll let ya'll know. If it isn't, I'm heading to the shooting range to take out my frustrations. Anyone have a picture of (fill in the blank) I can use for a target? :eek:

[harry yarnell]

I think the brake lites can also be sequential at turn-on, and then stay lit.

I think I had some 'issues' with installation using thier instructions. I used the wiring diagrams in the shop manual to figure out what to hook up. Been awhile, but work great.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

...and nearly three years later, I've taken on this endeavor.

Congratulations !

Finally, someone else who knows how to put the "pro" in procrastination!

Just need to be using the correct wires for the turn signal side of the lamps, and be on the proper side (hot or ground) of each lamp. There are two hot wires on each side (yellow on left side green on the right) so that if one relay/fuse fails at least the innermost light will function and all the ground wires are black. You only use one of these hot wires per side and leave the others hanging. Dave used the one on the innermost lamp for power and left the two same color wires on the outer two lamps taped off. (If you're really good, you could use two diodes to retain the redundancy of the two separate power sources.)

Edited February 22, 2012 by Mc_Reatta (see edit history)

[Rawja]

Finally, someone else who knows how to put the "pro" in procrastination!

I've got yuhs beat, I've had a set of STS modules since 2002. One of these days...

Edited February 23, 2012 by Rawja (see edit history)

[Bushwack]

Update: After looking at the wiring we did over and over and over again (and the turn signals still wouldn't work as desired), we thought the module was bad (we only did the passenger side). We then thought that maybe the driver's side also needs to be wired as a ground and other wires are common throughout the entire Reatta harness. Wrong again, Einstein. Turn signal sequentials would only work once and then stay on (not cycle). I sucked it up and spoke to Lawrence at Webelectric.

Helpful guy - I was impressed that my call was taken immediately (expected to get a call back) and he was very professional. After going through some troubleshooting procedures with poor results, he then asked me to turn on the hazard lights. When I activated the hazards, the turn signals 'sequentialed' as they are designed to (cycling) as did the brakes (only once). He determined the problem was with my turn signal flasher module and I should replace it.

The nearest AutoZone that had this item in stock is 14 miles away (a 60 minute one way drive during L.A. rush hour). AutoZone will re-direct the part to a store just a few blocks away. I'll get it tomorrow (Thursday), install it and hopefully all will be good.

Footnote: Having searched the forum on this topic, nobody discussed clearly what to do (or the purpose) with the little green wire/feed coming out of the Webelectric modules. FYI...This wire is used only if you want to prohibit the lights from going sequential when applying the brakes (it eventually feeds up somewhere under the dash).

So w/o using that wire, the end result should be when applying the brakes, all six bulbs will go 'sequential' once starting from the inside bulbs to the outside bulbs on both sides (and not cycle - brake lights stay on). When using either turn signal, the desired three bulbs (driver or passenger side) will go sequential AND cycle until your turn is completed (or you turn the signal stalker to neutral on your steering column).

One more thing (and I hope I'm not talking out of my butt), once I have the STS-1 unit working as it should, I'm going to take out the taillight assembly (I need to re-wrap wires) and document via video how the wires/which wires should connect (I'll video the final assembly). Dave's tutorial mentions yellow and green wires, but no mention of either the additional yellow/black wire (which I think was only connected to the inner most bulb on the driver's side) and green/white wire - which was the only wire connected to the inner most bulb on the passenger side (those two omissions through us off throughout the process). I'm not dissing Dave at all as his tutorial along with Webelectric's was invaluable to us to do the wiring. Just that we wouldn't have kept second-guessing what we were doing if there was mention of the yellow/black and green/white wires (the STS-1 instructions made no mention either of these wires, which I wouldn't expect them to because these modules are not specific for the Reatta - just for cars with three bulbs for each right/left turn signal and/or brake lights).

Hopefully, the new turn signal flasher that I'll install tomorrow will solve the problem (it better or back to the shooting range). I think both the tan (in my car) cover and another black cover underneath the steering column needs to be removed to replace the turn signal flasher module. BTW, in the Buick service manual, I couldn't find mention of where the turn signal flasher is located - AutoZone had a diagram.

Stay tuned and thanks everyone for your input (especially Dave for his tutorial).

[johnemac]

One thing that gave me grief awhile after installed, and only one side working, was that the front turnsignal bulb was bad. Webelectric really stands behind their product with their warranty. A great vendor.

[zoltanb]

I look forward to your video, I ordered an sts1 acouple of days ago. I know it will be a great help. I hope you get your bugs worked out and not shoot it.

[Guest gigitwo]

Finally someone is tackling the sequential problems. I asked for help on this months ago and only got one response from dave, now it seems everyone is coming out of the woodwork from every direction talking about sequentials. Like you bushwack, I followed dave and webelectric's instructions to the letter with no results, the lights would just get bright. I'll try that flasher theory but just in case, bushwack, please keep me in mind when you do your video. I do feel the tail light of the reatta was tailor made for sequentials. Something Buick should have thought of to help sell the car

[Bushwack]

Finally someone is tackling the sequential problems. I asked for help on this months ago and only got one response from dave, now it seems everyone is coming out of the woodwork from every direction talking about sequentials. Like you bushwack, I followed dave and webelectric's instructions to the letter with no results, the lights would just get bright. I'll try that flasher theory but just in case, bushwack, please keep me in mind when you do your video. I do feel the tail light of the reatta was tailor made for sequentials. Something Buick should have thought of to help sell the car

After I wrote the last post, I decided to prep my car for replacing the turn flasher signal (my mechanic told me where to look - above the steering column on the right side). I took off the black cover which is directly above the accelerator & brake. The contortionist that I am not, I nevertheless got underneath upside-down. Couldn't find that darn flasher (I couldn't find any reference to it in the service manual). I'm guessing it's waaay up there (think of an unpleasant proctology exam) and probably the IP needs to be completely disassembled (and more of the steering column) for access. Not a job I want to take on. Went back to my mechanic, he thinks he saw it but figures about an hour of labor to disassemble, swap out the item and re-assemble. So besides the $70.00 for the STS-1, I'm in for a $7.00 flasher module and about $90.00 in labor if everything works out. It seems that jobs like this, there are always hiccups along the way.

One other thing I completely forgot about. In an earlier thread I mentioned my passenger's side front turn bulb was acting up. The consensus was a bad resistor (http://forums.aaca.org/f116/problem-corner-turn-signals-321950.html). Courtesy of a gracious forum member, I have a practically new resistor that came in today's mail. So I will have both items installed tomorrow. Assuming the replacements will be successful, unfortunately I won't be able to tell you which item solved the problem.

BTW, I'm not going to do a re-write of Dave's tutorial. I will video the final connections of wires (to show which color wires are involved) and where I placed the two Webelectric modules (inside the trunk - didn't need to extend any wires). If I have time, I'll first video a Reatta whose taillight harness is untouched. I'll them make a video of the Reatta taillight harness I put the STS-1 unit on.

On a side note, I'm wondering if all Reattas (1988-1991) had the exact color wires or was there possibly a TSB that resulted in different (color) harness assemblies? To my knowledge, my '90 Convertible had brown, black, green, yellow, green w/ white stripe, yellow w/ black stripe, gray with white stripe, black with white stripe, lime green, gray, purple, white, orange and maybe 3-4 other colors) as part of the entire harness. The yellow, yellow with black stripe, green, green with white stripe, white and black were the color wires involved in making the STS-1 work.

Sorry for the long post. Ate a Snickers 30 minutes ago and the sugar kicked in.

Stay tuned....

[Bushwack]

...and the saga continues.

Got the part (turn signal flasher module). Installed it. Still not working correctly. Activating the right turn signal is OK - lights go in sequence and cycle. Activating the left turn signal and nothing happens. Taillights do not come on (and neither does the front turn signal).

Spoke to Webelectronics. Did some repetitious troubleshooting. With the engine running (as was requested), when I would activate the hazard switch, all taillights sequenced and cycled (as they should). He had me push/pull the hazard button a few times to confirm they worked correctly. Then he had me wiggle the hazard button while the turn signal stalk was in the left turn position. Doing so created intermittent success in the left turn taillights but only for a couple seconds. I would have to jiggle the hazard switch again and I'd get a couple more seconds of the left turn lights sequencing. This process confirmed to them that the wiring at the taillights is correct and the left turn signal switch/hazard switch was faulty. Hopefully the part will come in today for installation.

[Bushwack]

Update: The turn signal/hazard switch has been installed with poor results. Prior to this installation, the left turn taillights wouldn't even go on (unless I wiggled the hazard light and only then for a quickie). Now, with the new turn signal/hazard switch installed, the left turn taillights will only sequence once and stay on (they will not cycle). Activating the hazard switch will sequentially cycle right & left taillights as before (and as the STS-1 is programmed to do).

Webelectronics is closed for the day so I'll have to continue this tomorrow when I can confer w/ tech support. I'm now not as much as a happy camper then I was earlier. Too much of my time spent and now paying a mechanic's labor, about $100 in parts (that so far seems unnecessary) plus $70.00 for the STS-1,... It's become a learning process which is the positive but at an unexpected expense (and some anguish).

Edited February 23, 2012 by Bushwack (see edit history)

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Other than a front bulb being out, were the turn signals working before you started?

Sounds like you're throwing parts at it rather than trouble shooting it.

[Bushwack]

Other than a front bulb being out, were the turn signals working before you started?

Sounds like you're throwing parts at it rather than trouble shooting it.

All turn signals worked correctly before starting the installation.

If I have to spend labor hour$ to get to a possible faulty dime store part (per those in the 'know'), it would be foolish of me not to replace a 22 year old part (and just re-assemble).

It's feeling that way (throwing parts at the problem) but per Webelectronics, there are no other parts to throw. I'm already deep into it so might as well see this to the end. At least {at my expense }, I am documenting here if anyone in the future considers installing this unit. I'll have more information during business hours tomorrow.

.

.

[Ronnie]

...and the saga continues.

Got the part (turn signal flasher module). Installed it. Still not working correctly. Activating the right turn signal is OK - lights go in sequence and cycle. Activating the left turn signal and nothing happens. Taillights do not come on (and neither does the front turn signal).

Does the left turn signal indicator on the IPC flash when you have the left turn signal selected? If not then I'm thinking it might be the turn signal switch (multifunction lever) for the left side is bad , or there is a bad connection in the wiring going between the switch and the turn/hazard module, not supplying a ground input to pin E (LtBlu/Blk wire) on the turn/hazard module.

The reason the lights work when the hazard is turned on is because the hazard switch is connected to a different input (pin G... or is it a B? can't tell) on the turn/hazard module. The module output circuits for the lights on each side are the same between the turn/hazard and the STS-1, regardless of which input tells the module to activate them, so that wiring shouldn't be the problem.

You could test this theory by connecting a jumper from a good ground directly to pin E input on the turn/hazard module and see if the left turn signals work. Maybe someone else could look at the FSM schematic and see if they agree. I'm assuming the module is good.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Ronnie
clarification (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

I just noticed that I was looking at the '89 FSM when I posted my last comments. The '90 FSM schematic might be different and make everything I had to say incorrect..

[Bushwack]

Does the left turn signal indicator on the IPC flash when you have the left turn signal selected? If not then I'm thinking it might be the turn signal switch (multifunction lever) for the left side is bad , or there is a bad connection in the wiring going between the switch and the turn/hazard module, not supplying a ground input to pin E (LtBlu/Blk wire) on the turn/hazard module.

The reason the lights work when the hazard is turned on is because the hazard switch is connected to a different input (pin G) on the turn/hazard module. The module output circuits for the lights on each side are the same between the turn/hazard and the STS-1, regardless of which input tells the module to activate them, so that wiring shouldn't be the problem.

You could test this theory by connecting a jumper from a good ground directly to pin E input on the turn/hazard module and see if the left turn signals work. Maybe someone else could look at the FSM schematic and see if they agree. I'm assuming the module is good.

After changing the turn signal flasher module (which didn't fix the problem), earlier today the turn signal/hazard switch (that you are referring to) was replaced - and the problem still exists. I'll confirm w/ the mechanic that all associated or nearby wires are where they should be.

Mechanic did not re-assemble the steering column when he tested the new turn signal/hazard switch. He manually tested the switch (while it was sitting on the floor next to the brake pedal). I saw what worked and what didn't work. I dunno...maybe all those switches and wires need to be re-assembled correctly (with the stalk) inside the steering column for everything to work. I'm no electronic wizard but the only two items that Webelectric said may be faulty has been replaced.

My brain hurts.

[Ronnie]

Did you notice if the left turn indicator on the dash was flashing?

[Bushwack]

Did you notice if the left turn indicator on the dash was flashing?

I was not flashing. As I mentioned earlier, it would work but only for a second after I would push/pull the hazard button a few times, then wiggle the hazard button (not push it in). When wiggled, the IP's left turn indicator would either work once then stop or would come on in short bursts (flicker) but never fully come on (to complete the action of wanted to make a left turn).

[Ronnie]

The turn signal switch and the hazard switch are two different switches. The switch for the turn signal is the one I was referring to.

[Bushwack]

The turn signal switch and the hazard switch are two different switches. The switch for the turn signal is the one I was referring to.

It's all one unit. I saw it. Looks like the wires are on a white & black spool about 3/4" diameter (see picture below - circled in blue). By chance, do you have a part number(s) so I can confirm with the mechanic?

As always Ronnie, thanks!

P.S. To the right, near the open package, is the turn signal flasher (also replaced). Replaced that first before the turn signal/hazard switch.

.

.

.

.

.

.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

I think your replacing parts was a wild goose chase to put it nicely. Remember the flasher module reacts to impedance changes to the circuit to tell you that a bulb is burned out and such. In the front it's looking for one lamp and the IPC arrow, and in the rear it's looking for two lamp filaments and a relay coil left and right. Don't know how much impedance the sequencer brings to the table and what it is meant to replace and what should stay in circuit to keep the flasher module happy so it will function normally. But I'd put my money on an incorrect impedance not a faulty module or switch preventing things from working properly.

[Ronnie]

Looks like the '90 is completely different from the '89 turn signal controls. What I said probably won't apply.

That might account for Dave's tutorial not working well for you. His car is an '89. I'm going to make a note of that in the tutorial on my website.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[jonlabree]

I installed it a couple of years ago and had no problem with the installation.

[Bushwack]

OK....the parts that Webelectric said could be bad have been replaced. Have made some minor headway but the problem still exists. The progress is the left turn sequentials will work but they do so very slowly and eventually stop after a few cycles (no bulbs come on and the turn signal indicator on the IP stops working). Webelectric now thinks maybe it's a ground that's causing the problem (they are adamant it is not the STS-1 modules - otherwise that hazard lights would not work as designed).

Mechanic will exchange a micro switch relay (there is one for each bank of brake lights) located in the trunk. He'll put the right relay on the left and left on the right. Not sure what else can be done if this doesn't work. Performed the tests Ronnie suggested a few posts ago to no avail.

So far..

- Brake lights work correctly

- Hazard switch works correctly

- Right turn signal works correctly

- Left turn signal is not working correctly

[Bushwack]

Finally....

One of two micro switch relays (located below the tonneau cover on convertibles, located above each rear wheel well on coupes) was faulty (it was the driver's side relay that was bad). Had both replaced and the STS-1 finally works as it should.

As my time with the car was limited, I only had a few minutes to see the final results. At first, the driver's taillights were a bit slow cycling (compared to the passenger side) but got stronger after a minute. Per the Webelectric instructions, they ask that each right/left turn signal remain on for a few minutes, turn off the car, then repeat. I suppose there is a 'learning process' the STS-1 modules go through. I'll give the modules a thorough workout this weekend.

Aside from my wallet be unexpectedly lighter (and the added time it took to install and troubleshoot), I'm mixed if this was a worthwhile project. Maybe my outlook is tainted after the unexpected problems that came about.

For future reference, expect hiccups when doing this project. Installation may seem simple but there can be unexpected consequences.

[zoltanb]

I got mine in this afternoon with no problems except the indicator in the ip seems to be doubling up 2 clicks and than starts again. Is this typical?

[drtidmore]

Ok, so I am really LATE to the party on this one, but having the '89 stored away for a few years is the excuse I will use. Hopefully I can add some value to the discussion.

I am installing both the center brake light pulser as well as the sequential turn modules (WebElectric).

I REALLY, REALLY did NOT want the brake lights to sequence EVEN ONCE as my center brake will be using WebElectric's pulse module. The STS-1 sequential module allows for this, but it indicates the need to run wires to the turn signal indicator bulb. The design of the STS-1 is such that if the green wire is GROUNDED, the module does NOT sequence. The reason for attaching the green wire from each STS-1 to each turn indicator is that turn indicators are NORMALLY incandescent bulbs tied to GROUND, and during braking, the turn indicators are NOT active, so the incandescent bulbs act as pull down resistors to ground. BUT on the Reatta, the turn indicators are VF, not incandescent, and as such would NEVER work as intended to prevent the brake light sequencing. In reading the threads on installing the STS-1, I did not find anyone that had wired them to inhibit sequencing on braking, plus running wires is a pain.

I ALSO did NOT want the hazards to sequence, so along with the above desire, I set about engineering a simple solution. I realized that a couple of SPST relays (SPDT if wired appropriately, but SPST is all that is needed), could be located in the rear near the taillights, tied to each side of the turn/stop wiring, making the brake/hazard non-sequencing while allowing the turns to sequence.

Each relay coil is wired to a turn signal wire BEFORE the STS-1 module (be sure to include reverse clamping diode across the coil). The other side of each relay coil is tied to ground. The wiper of one of the relays is also tied directly to ground. The normally open contact of that relay is then tied to the wiper on the other relay. The normally open contact on the second relay is then wired to BOTH green inhibit wires on the STS-1 module. This is the SAME wiring whether SPDT or SPST is used.

With this setup, it takes BOTH relays being activated (ie as in STOP/HAZARD) for a path through the relays to ground to be complete. Otherwise the STS-1 green inhibit wire is simply floating just like it would be if left unconnected (ie the default, sequence once, on braking).

As there is no appreciable current involved across the relay contacts, reed relays could be used, but standard automotive high current models are easy to mount and readily available and will work.

I noticed several members mention that the IPC turn indicator as well as the turn chime on their '88/89 models were wonky after installing the STS-1. Understand that the '89 turn/hazard module monitors for failed rear turn/stop filaments using aggregate amperage so the STS-1 sequential module WILL cause the turn/hazard module to be a bit wonky with incandescent bulbs as it will first think that two filaments are out, then one filament out and finally all filaments GOOD with each flash cycle. This will lead to the IPC turn indicator flashing like a failed rear filament for part of each and every turn cycle. It will also cause the turn chime to not work as this is another failed turn/stop filament indicator (IPC and turn module are fed by turn/hazard module).

Not much that I can see to fix the above for those sticking with incandescent bulbs. HOWEVER, I am switching to LEDs and am going to be adding the appropriate parallel resistance AT the turn/hazard module (locating the resistors in the console area as the turn/hazard module is at the front of the console) to have SHORT wiring runs between the resistors and the turn/hazard module. Having 90% of the expected "incandescent" amperage draw running through added parallel resistance located NEAR the turn/hazard module will reduce the amperage through the wiring to the rear of the car from 6.3amps per side to .66amps per side as well as rendering the sequential amperage progression as the bulbs activate during a turn below the level noticeable by the turn/hazard module.

Switching to LEDs will greatly reduce the amperage pull that the current 12 incandescent tail lights draw through the headlight switch (5.76amps incandescent to .684amps using LEDs). Reducing the amperage through the headlight switch is ALL about protecting that switch as they are approaching the "priceless" point.

Yes, I know that I will still be pulling the entire normal incandescent amperage through the turn/hazard module, BUT we have a LONG history of that module being REALLY solid and it does NOT pull power through the headlight switch. I don't see any other way to make it happy without tearing into it and hopefully engineering a mod that makes it look for FAR, FAR less amperage. Since turn/stop/hazard are all short duty cycle events, the added parallel resistor approach is the way I will be going.

Also, I noted that it was mentioned that there were some differences in brightness of the outer bulbs with incandescent. The LEDs that I am using operate using constant current driver chips so they produce the exact same brightness over a voltage range of 8-24vdc.

Once all this is up and running, I will post videos as well as pics of the difference in the incandescents vs LEDs

David T

Edited September 30, 2013 by drtidmore (see edit history)