Buick LaCrosse?

[page2171]

Hi all!

I am planning on trading my '04 Malibu in for something larger when I return from Iraq in a couple of months. My third child was born a couple of months before I left and the Malibu is a bit small for three kids. We don't carry all three on a daily basis in my car when I am home (that is what my wife's minivan is for), but when we do we would like to have more room.

I have been reading about the LaCrosse and it sounds like it may be what I am looking for. Can some of you share your personal experience with the LaCrosse? I trust your opinions more than that of auto journalists.

Thanks!

Brian

[Guest edalfa]

Brian,

We had a LaCrosse for a loaner when the dealer had to keep my wife's Lucerne over a weekend for warranty work. It drove nicely. I'm tall and found the console a bit intrusive but not enough to keep me from driving the car. My only gripe was the full width chrome strip across the dashboard. The sun often reflected off of it and into my eyes . My wife had no such problem so it is probably a height related issue.

Ed

[JohnD1956]

Our LaCrosse CXL has been just fine. Some nice things are the fold down rear seats providing more load room when needed, the telescopic steering wheel makes more driving positions comfortable, and of course I still like the 3800 for the power plant, although I do miss the Riv's supercharger. We also like the quite tuning features which makes conversation, or just the quiet, a real pleasure. We also like the bench seat option which functions as two separate bucket seats plus a fold up center secion that mimics a console when open and a seat when closed. Of course this moves the shift lever to the column but they put in a lever that is not that ugly.

The car is a great size and be sure to get the remote starter. Even though it wastes gas in the winter, we have not had to use any window scratching scrapers on any of the glass.

The cons?

No dual exhaust on the CX or CXL, which is really dumb in my opinion. The gas milage is low 20's around town driving according to the on board computer. 19 MPG the old fashioned way. The highway at 65 MPH is 27 give or take a few tenths.

Overall, I'd give it a 9 on a scale with 10 the highest.

[Dave@Moon]

When you compare the LaCrosse to the new (almost identically sized) Malibu Hybrid (using fueleconomy.gov) you'll see that the Buick will use about $700.00 more gas <span style="text-decoration: underline">per year</span> than the Chevy (driving 15K mi./yr.). That is at today's average of $4.08/gal. Gas will easily be between $6 and $7 a gallon before the average person has a 2008 new car loan paid off, possibly higher, by today's most conservative projections. So that difference isn't going to get any smaller!

The new Malibu Hybrid has recieved some very glowing reviews, as has the similar Saturn Aura Hybrid. Unless you don't drive very much, and/or just don't care about the consequences (monetary and otherwise) of using so much extra gas, I'd seriously consider an alternative to the Buick.

[Reatta Man]

Brian,

Dave made a good point, but only when you exclusively consider gas mileage. I looked for Malibu Hybrids in your area around Camp Pendleton, and it looks as if there are about 6-8 not too far from you. However, you have to consider whether dealers are gouging prices on the Malibu Hybrids the way Toyota dealers are on the Prius. Also, there is a $2,000 rebate on the Lacrosse, but no rebates on the Malibu Hybrid.

If you have to pay several thousands more for the hybrid or can't find the car you want, those are factors to keep in mind.

Also, you might want to look at a 1-2 year old Lacrosse. With Buicks having a 4 year, 50K bumper-to-bumper warranty, you could find a good low-mileage Lacrosse in your area with 2-3 years left on the warranty.

I've looked at the Lacrosse, but don't own one. They do look to be very well made and all the owners in here seem to universally like them. Be sure to check www.edmunds.com and www.epinions.com for more information from owners.

Be safe and get home soon!

Joe

[serb]

I'd go for the Buick every day, any day.

Don't worry about a couple of extra dollars for gasoline, the luxury more than makes up for it. Prius....would not take one for free.

666

stevo

[JohnD1956]

Joe makes an excellent point. You really need to consider what amount you plan to use the car. Considering most loans today are daily compounding of interest, unless you are paying cash for a car then the cost of fuel is only one factor to be considered. I have a 69 GS 400. It gets 14 miles to the gallon. I use it once or twice a week and fill it up once a month. Honestly, I feel guilty every time I start the car, until I move down the road with the top down. Then I compare my excess to those who sit in bars and drink all day or hire expensive hookers when they have a good wife sitting home and I don't feel guilty at all.

[old-tank]

I'm sure the Malibu hybrid is a nice car, but comparing it other than economy to the Lacrosse is stupid. The Malibu is a 'mild hybrid' with a 2.4 L four banger.

Don't do what I did in 1980 when gas was also expensive: I panicked and bought a Le Sabre diesel!

[serb]

Eliot spitzer,

Does that name sound familiar to anyone out there. We from NY know darn well who he is and JD who lives close to the capitol of the state may have even met him or seen him in JD's previous employment.

stevo

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> However, you have to consider whether dealers are gouging prices on the Malibu Hybrids the way Toyota dealers are on the Prius. Also, there is a $2,000 rebate on the Lacrosse, but no rebates on the Malibu Hybrid.

If you have to pay several thousands more for the hybrid or can't find the car you want, those are factors to keep in mind. </div></div>

Buick Lacrosse MSRP (base): $25,000

Chevy Malibu Hybrid MSRP (base): $22,790

That's a lot of wiggle room. You'd almost have to go out of your way to pay more for the Malibu Hybrid.

Also for comparison (since someone brought it up) the Prius MSRP (base) is $22,875. Most are priced around $24K, with $29K possible if literally every option and accessory is purchased. Even a base model Prius is equipped the equivalent of a mid-level Lacrosse or better, and fully equipped it is the luxury equivalent of just about any Buick (with slightly worse sound insulation and ride).

The Prius is slightly larger than the Malibu in interior room, slightly smaller than the Lacrosse. All three have identical trunk space. The Prius burns about $900/yr. less gas than the Malibu Hybird, and about $1,600/yr. less than the Lacrosse (until the gas prices go up again).

[Guest BJM]

I didn't see this comment so I will add. My comment is not based on fuel and cost analysis.

With three kids, ANY modern backseat is going to be crowded, from a Lincoln towncar on down. The LaCrosse will be only measurably bigger then a Malibu.

I own a 2004 Pontiac Bonneville and it's "snug" with 3 kids in the back. They each have a seat portion but not like the good old days of the 70's when had to stretch your arm out to be in your sister's area. (Mom, he's doing it again)

[Reatta Man]

Brian,

It appears from this article on a road test of the Malibu Hybrid that it doesn't get anywhere near its' EPA mileage of 32; more like 24-26 from what these people observed.

http://review.zdnet.com/sedan/2008-chevrolet-malibu-hybrid/4505-10865_16-32693755.html

You can easily do that in a Lacrosse with the 3.8L Series III V-6, and have much better pickup as well.

Hundreds of owners of GM cars with the 3.8 engine have gotten 27-30 MPG on the highway.

With the real-world pricing of the Malibu Hybrid vs. the Lacrosse with its $2K rebate (and $500 military rebate) you may get the larger and more powerful Lacrosse for the same price as a Malibu.

If E85 is heavily subsidized in California the way it is in Colorado ($2.85 per gallon) and you want an E85-compatilble car, then look at an Impala. Both of the engines in the Impala are available as E85 compatible models.

Joe

[HurstGN]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: page2171</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi all!

I am planning on trading my '04 Malibu in for something larger when I return from Iraq in a couple of months. My third child was born a couple of months before I left and the Malibu is a bit small for three kids. We don't carry all three on a daily basis in my car when I am home (that is what my wife's minivan is for), but when we do we would like to have more room.

I have been reading about the LaCrosse and it sounds like it may be what I am looking for. Can some of you share your personal experience with the LaCrosse? I trust your opinions more than that of auto journalists.

Thanks!

Brian </div></div>

Brian,

First, please accept my thanks for serving your country. If it wasn't for your great personal sacrifice, we'd not have the pleasure of having this discussion today. I'm not a family man, but I know it must have been tough to leave just a few months after your third was born. That is a huge sacrifice!! <span style="color: #000099"> THANK</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">YOU! </span>

Now, about the price of the new car. Regardless of the make and model you choose, when negotiating, ask if there is any discount for military service. You've served your country, and deserve a break. If I was the salesman, I'd fight to get you every penny of discount I could. I've spoken to other servicemen and women in the past, and each has been reluctant to accept any accolades for their service. From what I have experienced, our military are very honorable and humble people. Well, now is the time your country steps up to say "thanks" for all you've done for us, and we all can do that one small act of kindness at a time. It's just one more step in a pay it forward program, that you helped start by serving your country. [This is where I wish we had a smiley runing a flag up the flag pole, to show honor and respect for our military, and our country.] You deserve to have somebody pay it forward to you. Again, <span style="color: #000099"> THANK</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">YOU! </span> for all you've done for us.

[page2171]

First of all, I want to thank all of you for your replies.

Dave, I appreciate the suggestion of the Malibu Hybrid, but it really isn't on my radar. It is almost exactly the same size as my '04 Malibu and doesn't get much better gas mileage. My current Malibu has the 2.2L Ecotec and in my daily driving I average about 28-30 mpg, if I get on the open road and drive (like when I moved to CA from WI) I get 34-35 mpg.

I am going to be looking at used cars, probably no more than 3 years old and less than 40k miles. That is a formula that has served me well in the past, so I will stick with it. The cars that I have been checking out online here are the LaCrosse, Impala, Grand Prix, Lucerne, Mercury Montego, and Ford Five Hundred. What I really want is a wider back seat (even if it isn't as wide as they were when we were kids) because the two car seats next to each other are a real pain to put in and the kids are squished in there pretty good (and they are only 10, 4, and 7 months). When I get home and get around to car shopping I will check them out, take the kids along and load them up for a test drive.

[page2171]

Dan, I almost forgot...Thank you for your support! It makes it much better being in this miserable sandbox knowing that there are people back home that support us.

Brian

[Reatta Man]

Brian,

You must be a Dave Ramsey fan! He would like your plan.

Like I said earlier, if you find a 3-year old model, it may still have a year left on the factory warranty.

E-mail me and let me know if I can do anything for you from the CONUS.

Joe

[HurstGN]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: page2171</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dan, I almost forgot...Thank you for your support! It makes it much better being in this miserable sandbox knowing that there are people back home that support us.

Brian </div></div>

We ALL owe you bigtime for what you do. Come back home safe. If you're ever in the Pittsburgh area, I'd be glad to meet you and shake your hand. Tell everyone over there THANK YOU from back home in the states.

[JohnD1956]

Brian, I second Dan's comments. Thanks to you and every other soldier regardless of where they are stationed or deployed. Good luck!

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Brian,

For what it is worth, we typically get a Grand Prix as a loaner when one of our vehicles goes in for servicing. Our kids are 8, 10, and 12, with the youngest being in a booster seat. I just asked my wife and she says that the GP would be very tight with the three in back (if all 5 of us aren't going somewhere, the eldest now rides shotgun).

I suppose rear seat hip room and rear seat shoulder room would be the best measure if you can find those numbers published.

I know where you are coming from on the space...when we went to replace the Montana, we looked at compact SUVs and laughed...then bought a Rainier...wish it got better fuel economy though...nobody would talk to us about real world I6 vs. Displacement on demand 5.3l V8 at the time though, and with our winters, I didn't want to risk going with the new technology.

[Mark Shaw]

I am on a business trip and have a LaCrosse rental car. I picked up two other guys at the Nashville airport and drove about an hour in the car. They both love the ride and the guy from W.Va. asked how I managed to get a "leathered up Buick".

It is a great road car.

[Guest BJM]

Derek and Mark,

Yes, for four people, with two in back, the Grand Prix/LaCrosse/Bonneville class becomes a nice ride. I think the impression is that these cars were designed for the family of four. Fewer American families run to 5 to 8 members any more.

My Bonnie has a nice fold down armrest, rear entertainment jacks, the armrest has a cupholder and it is has leather seats, ditto on the LaCrosse Mark rented BUT the specific question revolved around 3 kids, and I think only a modern minivan allows enough room for that scenario.

Derek, I have one word Wildcat. Even though it's a two door, it's got the room, style, big trunk. Get sthe same gas mileage as the Rainier I'll bet.

[Guest imported_Thriller]

My Wildcat doesn't get the same fuel economy as the Rainier...but it is a heck of a lot more fun. It doesn't just keep up with traffic, it can set the pace. That being said, it has the rear seat speaker and doesn't have a middle seat belt in the rear (4 places only), so it isn't great for longer trips. Plenty of room for the 3 in the back of the '41 though.

It isn't just minivans in the modern category though...there are SUVs and now crossovers, although the latter may be too new for the original question. Crew cab truck also fits. The kids didn't complain with the trip to Seattle / Oregon last summer.

The reality is that sizes have gotten smaller, i.e. the definition of full size has changed. The first car I remember was a '69 Meteor, which was replaced with a '77 Mercury Marquis...now that's full size.

[serb]

My radio is out being redone for the '46. I hired an orchestra to ride in the back seat in the interim, they have enough room and there is still room for a couple of stage side tables.

Stevo

[NTX5467]

I happened upon some comments about hybrids, especially the 2-Mode Hybrids in the current GM SUVs (co-used by Chrysler and BMW). The fuel-saving "engine stop" function will not happen as long as the catalysts are in their warming mode (there are a few other operational situations when it will not work, also). Fuel economy will NOT always be what is posted due to . . . (ta daaaaa . . .) driving style--put up the screen and learn to drive it in the "green mode" rather than the "red mode" (the TSB's suggestion to owners with mpg complaints). The battery pack has an optimum temperature range so that can affect when the heater or a/c operates to keep them in that temperature range.

IF fast accelerations are used, then fuel economy will be similar to a normal vehicle. IF fast stops are made, rather than slower and more gradual "normal" stops, the regenerative braking will not operate as designed, or not as well. A faster and more intense stop will result in less stopping time and less regenerative braking time, hence more gasoline engine run time.

I found these TSB comments quite interesting and informative. No rocket science when you think about it and how the various systems work. As a result, hybrids might not be for everybody AND potential buyers should fully investigate these things FIRST rather than later, I would suspect. I still believe that the best hybrid vehicle will use a gasoline/diesel engine to power an electric motor, with appropriate battery packs to use electricity rather than "engine" for general propulsion.

The LaCrosse is a great car. I suspect the CXL might be the most popular (with the Buick 3800 V-6). The CXS versions I've driven/rented (with the 3.6L V-6) are nice, but the fuel economy on the 3.6 is less "on the road". If you find a LaCrosse Super, if the engine and cruise are left to their devices on the road, the V-8 will probably do at least as good as the Buick 3800 V-6 will on fuel economy, but the cyl deactivation feature is variable and dependent upon the terrain being driven over.

I suspect that most of the similar vehicles will have similar rear seat hip room dimensions as the cars are generally the same outside width. The fold-down rear seat is big plus for hauling 6' lumber and stuff, so it can be handy.

If you're looking for a 1-2 year old vehicle, you might also consider the last gen Buick LeSabre as an option (if you find one that's been taken care of). GREAT highway fuel economy, roomier, just a tad longer than the LaCrosse/Regal, but wider and more hip room. On a trip using the cruise control, it'll get fuel economy that'll make many smaller import vehicles blush with envy!

The Ford Five Hundred (now called "Taurus", yuk) is roomy, but most of the interior room is vertical rather than horizontal. Nicely laid out inside, but Fords seeming lack of an "engine program" was operative when it was built. Still, the Five Hundred/Montego are terrific values in that size class, at least when new.

Rather than checking dealers for test drives and "test fits", you might do a weekend rental from Hertz (Ford), National (LaCrosse and similar GM vehicles), or something of that nature. That'll give you time to see how things might work before you do the trade-in situation. The larger airport locations usually have bigger fleets to draw from. THEN you can go looking for cars after that.

Also, THANKS for your service to our country! It IS definitely appreciated!

NTX5467

[Reatta Man]

Agree totally about the comments on the Lesabre; ditto the Park Avenue with the non-supercharged engine. They are BOTH true 30 MPG highway vehicles thanks to the "old school" bulletproof 3.8 engine.

[page2171]

I hadn't thought about the LeSabre, but that is a good idea. I don't know why I didn't think of it. I would like to find something with the 3800 because I know what it can do. Thanks also for the idea of renting for a weekend. That is a good idea that will also decrease the pressure to buy.

[Guest BJM]

Agreed, crossovers work. I was thinking about why the minivans work in the modern era, and it is the same principle - two person seating per area. You don't see too many 3 across seating in minivans...or crossovers...or cars. For long trips, just not enough room. So crossvoers, et al work, as 2 x 2 x 2 seating.

[page2171]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BJM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Agreed, crossovers work. I was thinking about why the minivans work in the modern era, and it is the same principle - two person seating per area. You don't see too many 3 across seating in minivans...or crossovers...or cars. For long trips, just not enough room. So crossvoers, et al work, as 2 x 2 x 2 seating. </div></div>

That is why we will still use my wife's Grand Caravan (sorry it's not GM) for long trips. It has bucket seats in the middle row to keep the kids separated somewhat and it has lots of room for luggage. My car is what we take on shorter trips, like going down to San Diego or up to Orange County or LA, pretty much any less than a few hours, maybe as far as Vegas or Lake Havasu, but not any farther.