Painting options

[1935Packard]

My 1207 coupe roadster is a driver, and the paint job is a very worn 70s job with nonoriginal colors. I'd like to have it repainted, but when I asked the resto shop that has worked on the car what that would entail, the owner of the shop estimated that it would run around 10-15k. Of course, he was thinking a show quality paint job, down to the bare metal, everything done just right, etc.

That's not really what I want, though, as I want to keep the car a driver. I want it to look nicer, and I want to change the color, but to me a perfect paint job just means that I'll end up worrying about keeping it perfect rather than enjoying driving the car.

So that brings up a question: What other options are there, at different price points? Sorry to ask such an open-ended question, but I really have no idea what the different options are. I don't want an Earl Scheib special for this car, but I don't want to pay for perfection, either. Any ideas?

Thanks, as always.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I've always painted my own cars, So for me, that's the Only option. A 35 year old compressor and $15. spray-guns from Harbor-freight, gets the Job Done.

Even if you Screw-up the first couple of tries, eventually you'll get it looking good enough and you've Saved Thousands of dollars. But it does Take time and a little work.

[Tom M]

I am with Rick on this one also the only way to keep cost down is to do it what you can yourself that is if you have the time and patience.

For the Earl Scheib or was it Macco route there was another poster on here that used them just to lay down the paint for him. He did all the prep work himself. The pictures he posted of the final paint look pretty decent.

[West Peterson]

You can't ask a professional restoration shop to not do anything but proper work, as the end result reflects on them. Many, many shops will not even do partial restorations because if they do a "paint job," eventually the word gets out that it was a restoration, and a potential customer will look at it and start looking for another shop.

The fact that you want to do a color change also puts another stick in the spokes, as the job is much more elaborate. Hopefully you're willing to do a lot of prep work yourself, which will entail stripping the old paints.

Its good that you're wanting to keep it a driver, though. My stepfather has a 1407 coupe-roadster and it is a driver as well. I drove my brother's 1407 convertible victoria this past summer. They are amazing cars to drive if all mechanicals are in proper working order (both engine and chassis).

[Owen_Dyneto]

One factor to consider is that with a high value bona fide Classic such as you have, even though your intention may be to keep it forever, is that when it is finally sold you may well recoup much of the expense of a high quality paint job in the sale.

[Restorer32]

We are often asked to do these types of paint jobs. My response is "Where do you want us to cut corners? Cheaper paint? Less prep sanding? Should I tell my painter to close one eye?". We used to do "less than perfect" paint jobs. Invariably the customer would complain, usually something like "Yes I didn't want it perfect but I didn't want orange peel" or "but I wanted the body work to be right" or "I didn't think I'd be able to see those scratches and dimples in the primer". It's a simple concept but most often cus tomers fail to understand that if you pay for "less than perfect" then some aspects of the finished job will be "less than perfect". No offense intended but we have found that when a customer says he dosen't want a show quality paint job what he really means is that he wants a show quality job but doesn't want to pay for it. I would suggest living with what you have or bellying up to the bar and having it done correctly. The car deserves it!

[Restorer32]

In any case, the estimate you were given is realistic. A body shop might be willing to do the type job you are asking for, but remember, that work will likely be a total loss money wise when and if you eventually go to sell the car, whereas a quality job will enhance the car's value.

[1935Packard]

Thanks, all, that's very helpful. The car has been in my family since 1942, so I don't expect I'll ever sell it; but then you never know what may some day happen. If the only paint job really worth doing is in that kind of price range, though, maybe I'll stick to the worn 70s repaint for a few more years. It'd kind of nice not having to worry about the paint getting chips or marks.

[Twitch]

I don't know where you are but there certainly is an alternative to 15K, doing it yourself, of taking it to Maaco.

You need to shop around!! For what it is worth 2 years ago a custom shop did my Z-28 for $3,500. That's down to bare metal too. And it was rough from previous damage repair and lots of old paint! This is in Southern California too. So if I could find a decent price here you should be able to.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

1935Packard, For what it is worth, I think many people would value appearance of the car with the old paint on it over a "quickie" repaint. I am in the same boat, one car was a ground up but done 35 years ago, the other a very low mileage orig. except for a nice, but aging paint job done in 1989. Luckilly, both were pretty good jobs. To show, though, both cars need paint. We will wait on this although I make take a stab at the fenders and splash aprons on my "A" myself. They need no bodywork to speak of and are just in desperate need of paint - body is OK. I figure if I mess up I will just send them out.

If I remember one of your posts, I think you acquired this car recently? Tough at times to resist the urge to do "something" right away. I find myself now thinking in terms of years, not months on planned upgrades, etc. I just figured I would put out a "vote" for as-is until it is time to do it right.

How's about pictures?

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Nice car, Twitch. Had one (not a Z) in High School.

[West Peterson]

I agree. Nice car, Twitch. I've had two, but both of mine had the rally sport front end. Sure would like to have another one.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

A big add to labor on the older cars are that to do them right you really should remove the fenders, running boards, splash shields, etc. This time alone will add a lot of $$$ for any shop. Also, if the car is more than one color that will add $$ as well. The Camaro has very little chrome and trim to deal with, and is probably a little easier to do overall.

Packard35, have you tried to rub out the paint? You would be surprised at what some creativity and patience will do. You may find it is a big improvement.

West, BTW that is an RS front end on Twitch's car. I had the single bumper on mine, and actually prefer it although the RS is more desirable. Big, no huge doors...

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I've always painted my own cars, So for me, that's the Only option. A 35 year old compressor and $15. spray-guns from Harbor-freight, gets the Job Done.

Even if you Screw-up the first couple of tries, eventually you'll get it looking good enough and you've Saved Thousands of dollars. But it does Take time and a little work. </div></div>

Seems with me it's a lot of time and a lot of work. I spent two weeks just woring on the spash pans.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

You can Change your Handle to 'Speedster-Too', then you will be able to do them in 2 Hours, instead of 2 weeks.

[1935Packard]

Steve,

Yes, the car was recently acquired: I bought it about a year ago, but it was being worked on until October (bringing it back to solid and reliable mechanical shape) and I've only had it a few months.

The condition of the current 1970s repaint is pretty worn, though. There are a few golf-ball-sized chips; about a dozen dime-size chips; a few body panels that are pretty scratched up, parts around the fender are peeling off, revealing the original tan color; and there a few parts on the hood and the tail lights where the paint is worn through to the primer. Plus, the paint job wasn't very good when new, either: it was a pretty cheap respray, and there's serious orange peel all over the fenders, for example. Looks fine at 20 feet, after having buffed it out, but not so much closer up.

[tbirdman]

Yes, Speester you seem to be awful fast at what you do. However I did receive a good compliment from a local Packard restorer who told others that my work was excellent though slow, and that I could do just as good work as him

The only thing I would say in addition to doing the work yourself vs. contracting it out, is the sense of pride have when someone asks who did the work. Iif the resulting resulys weere good that is)

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, for me the whole point of any construction hobby is the Self satisfaction of being able to 'Do It Myself'. I wouldn't be restoring cars, if I couldn't.

My cars are not Show Cars when I do them, but doing them is Always Fun and Interesting, while doing them, and I'm really Not doing it for 'Show'. I'm not interested in Impressing anyone else with my accomplishments, Only myself.

Of course, it always makes me feel good, when someone gives me a genuine compliment.

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steve_Mack_CT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

West, BTW that is an RS front end on Twitch's car. I had the single bumper on mine, and actually prefer it although the RS is more desirable. Big, no huge doors... </div></div>

Steve

The rally sport front end had round parking lights next to the headlights, and the Euro (rubberized) bumper surrounding the grille that extended out an extra 3 inches.

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tbirdman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing I would say in addition to doing the work yourself vs. contracting it out, is the sense of pride have when someone asks who did the work. Iif the resulting resulys weere good that is) </div></div>

Ken

Let me add one more thought to what you said. When you do your own work (especially mechanically), you feel much more comfortable taking the car out on the road knowing that you could probably take care of most problems that might occur.

[tbirdman]

West,

I hadn't thought of that but I agree. Last year, my Packard had stalled. As I was troubleshooting it, an ex-neighbor of mine pulled up behind the car and stopped to help. He being a car guy and knowing me from my from a few years back, was surprised at my troubleshooting skills that I had gained.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

One more Camaro related post (sorry '35. :/) for West & Twitch. West, I stand corrected, I missed that yesterday. I always thought the car came with either the RS/Euro type front end (rubber extensions designed to buckle & fade after 3 sunny days, thank you General..) or with the standard nose. Actually, I think the whole front valence is different if I remember right, to accomodate the lights.

Twitch, is your car one of a kind, or did they come this way? Or did you just prefer the split bumper? I don't think I ever saw one configured with the split bumpers but not the rubber nose & lights.

[Twitch]

A million Camaro owners took off the full across front bumper and replaced them with the bumperettes. Seen it all over on many old Camaros.

But with the evaluations theses day old Camaros are getting out of sight versus the "regular guy" perception of value. Go to NADA and look at 73 Z-28s. Obscene. I don't even think they're worth that!

Back to paint jobs- A person has simply got to get out and basically interview prospective places to do it. You need to see some of their work and look at their facility. Each place besides Shieb or Maaco has a one price job which is their best attention to a car.

The reason you need to shop around is because this price will vary shop to shop because of things like overhead, time in business, quality of personnel and workflow. One guy needs to get $5,000 while another would require $8,000 for an identical finish.

[Matt Harwood]

One thing to remember with a paint job, especially one with a color change, is that every nook and cranny needs to be painted and that means disassembly. If you're painting a relatively new car like the Camaro and not doing a major color change, you can probably get away with masking the interior and engine/trunk compartments and shooting it whole. But with a Packard, there aren't many easy "break points" for the paint. The engine bay exposes the inside of the hood and the entire firewall. The door jambs are similarly visible. A good deal of the cost of a paint job has nothing to do with paint, but rather with labor just to get it to paintable condition.

For a good job on a budget, take the car apart yourself and do the prep. Find a skilled amateur or smaller body shop to walk you through the process and keep you on track with the materials you should be using. If you do the labor that doesn't require skill or equipment, that's a big pile of money you can save. On a paint job like this, the actual painting is probably half of the total cost of the job, maybe less. And doing it that way, you could even paint it in stages, say, do the fenders/splashpans first, then the body later.

You can do quite a bit and save even more if you get creative and find a painter willing to work with you. And like others have said--keep your expectations realistic. Concours cars look like that because their paint cost $15,000 or more.

On the other hand, even a $15,000 paint job is probably only 10% of the value of your particular car. That's awfully cheap in relative terms. You'd be hard-pressed to lose money on it and doing it right the first time is always cheaper than doing it wrong once and then doing it right.

Hope this helps. Whatever you do, your car certainly deserves to look its best!

[1935Packard]

Thanks, Matt -- that's a very helpful comment.

[tbirdman]

However, you must also keep in mind that if you paintthe car, then that chrome and the interior is going to look bad, and now you spend even more money. Been there, done that.

[West Peterson]

Sort of like drinking from a spittoon, eh? Once you start, you can't stop.

[Twitch]

Anyone seeking paint or any work does need to have the shop quantify exactly what they do in detail for the quoted price. My Z-28 was painted in the trunk, door jambs and underhood. There is a lot of competition out there and overhead is vastly different depending on the zip code too.

Speaking of getting detailed quotes- a guy I know has a 68 Mustang. It is by no means concours in any way. It's his daily driver. When it was time for an engine rebuild he took it someplace and specified to them he wanted them to rebuild THAT engine. What happens? They replaced it with a short or long block from a rebuilder. AAAAAAAAAH!