63 401 lifters

[petelempert]

My 63 with a 401 had been sitting for about 12 years when I got it. About a year has passed and I got it to run pretty good now but still has one maybe two noisy lifters. Tried all sorts of oils and potions...got better... but I've still got enough noise that it bugs me. It's the ticking...sounds vaguely diesel. Everything else...compression etc. on the engine is good with fairly low mileage (82K). I've never replaced lifters with the non-adjustable Buick style valve rails. Someday, I'll rebuild the whole engine but I'm wondering if I should try to replace all the lifters now. I don't know what I'll find when I open the thing up. The service manual makes it sound easy. I'd say my skills are good, but I'm not a professional mechanic. Anybody out there replaced lifters lately? Any tips, hints, cautions before I start? Thx PRL

[Guest rlbleeker]

Standard practice is to replace both the cam and lifters. And if your there anyway the timing set is a good plan. That requires stripping both the top and front of the engine including the radiator. Quite a bit of time and a few $$ too. Unless it was really bad, I'd listen to it click until your ready to do the whole thing.

[Jim Cannon]

My advice is to leave it alone. Wait until you really have a reason to tear into it.

[RivNut]

I agree with Jim et al when they say to leave it alone until something major NEEDS to be done. Try adding a can of Sea Foam engine cleaner to the crankcase and see if the lifter noise isn't caused by a small dirt particle blocking a bleed hole or something.

(I'd tell you to use a quart of AT fluid but all the purist scoff at me when I suggest that.)

I started my 64 after having let it set for 6 months and man did it have a clatter, sounded like a wrist pin or piston slapping back and forth. I let it run for a while, poured a pint or so of AT fluid in with the oil, and pretty soon it quieted down. Coincidence or cure????? I'll never really know.

Ed

[Bill Stoneberg]

I guess I am of the other opinion. I took my lifters out because they were driving me crazy with the tapity tap tap.

It wasn't hard and it didn't cost much to replace all the lifters and pushrods. After 20 years of siting, I dont know if I needed to do that but it sure quieted the engine down. I had already replaced the timing gears when I pulled the timing cover but I left the cam alone. I just pulled the intake and the rocker arms and the valley cover. Afer doing that I drove over 5K miles to Seattle this summer with no issues.

Try the other things first though, it cant hurt.

[Jim Cannon]

You are right, Bill, it is not not that hard. I have done it on many engines. The biggest risk is that you don't get the gaskets sealed well on the valve covers and you end up with oil leaks (which you may have right now anyway) or you don't get the intake manifold sealed properly and you end up with a vacuum leak which throws the idle off.

But I would not do it for "one maybe two noisy lifters", as the original post said. Those one or two lifters would have to be really bad to justify tearing into it, IMHO. Several noisy lifters (which I think you had) is different. That starts to be worth the time and effort.

In fact, I have one, maybe two, noisy lifters on my '63 right now. I tried the sea foam (no difference). I tried MMO. I have not tried ATF yet; might do that before next oil change. Main problem with oil additives is that if the lifter is noisy because oil is not getting into it, the additive won't get into it to clean it...

[Conroy]

I agree with Jim and Bill. I had a clatter I just couldn't stand anymore, on my '64 425. I started to clean up my engine bay and clean and paint the engine. After I had every removable item off of the engine, I decided to go ahead and change out the lifters and push rods. Even for a novice, it was surprisingly simple. I am extremely happy I went ahead and did it. The engine runs very quiet now.

[tim63riv]

Guys,

Interesting thread here! The "rule of thumb" has always been cam and lifters replaced as a set. All of the current cam grinders/manufacturers recommend this as well. The thought behind this "rule" was that the lifter and cam lobe had formed a "wear pattern" as they operated against each other over a number of miles and years. Introducing a new lifter onto a used cam lobe would create a situation where the lifter and lobe weren't broken in at the same time and accelerated wear on the cam could result. I would be even more concerned now with the fact that zinc, a high pressure lubricant, has been removed from modern engine oils. All that being said, I have heard of guys that threw a new set of lifters in an engine and never had an issue! If you do install new lifters, I would make darn sure that I put a high quality cam break in lube on the base of the lifter. If the new lifters chew up the old cam, then you get to learn how to put a camshaft in a Nailhead, so it's not the worst thing in the world!

Good Luck,

Tim

P.S. Does anybody pour engine oil into an automatic transmission when they have a transmission problem? (LOL!!)

[petelempert]

Well...I think I'm gonna do lifters and rods. I drove it today and the clicking is driving me crazy. I'll take my chances on the cam. I'm taking my time on this car so I figure I'll get the parts, get my head around the proceedure and just do it. Might make a good winter project. Anybody out there have a recomendation on parts sources...for lifters, rods, and related gaskets? CARS...Kanter? Thx PRL

[Mr Riviera]

I would like to add that changing lifters and push rods is a piece of cake - simple to do and not expensive . One more thing to check however . Check the FEET , thats what I call them , on the rocker arms . This is the little insert that makes contact with the valve stem. I have found some where a hole has been worn all the way thru where it rides on the valve stem. A lot of wear or a hole will add to the tollerances being off and cause the noise and other problems.

I am also a big fan of adding a qt. or two of ATF to the oil for a couple of hundred miles .Then change the oil and filter . It cleans well. Have fun and by the way - the above is a weekend project , not a Winters Worth unless your slow like me ! LOL

[Guest rlbleeker]

Definitely look the rockers over, and you can do that before you pull the intake. I've had more bad rockers than bad lifters. I usually pull the valve covers and fire it up; verify that oil is flowing and then look/listen for anything odd. If it's just a little tick, tick, tick with the hood open, that's one thing; if you can hear it in the car with the windows up, that's another.

As for the cam, standard practice for cams, gears, bearings, etc is you always keep them mated and you always replace in pairs. I lost a lifter in a 300" once, the cam lobe looked ok, so I replaced just that one lifter. Made it about a year and did in fact lose the lobe, whether it was coincidence or not I don't know. I'd be curious as to others success with replacing just lifters.

[Conroy]

I would agree with the comments about the appropriateness of changing out the cam too. I had this debate with a gearhead friend. However my argument was that I had 146,000 miles on my engine with no evidence of any major prior engine work. I felt that if I would gain peace and quiet at the expense of a little wear and tear on the old cam, I had nothing to lose. Lifters are not that expensive, and if the cam needed replaced anyway, what does it matter if I did it now or later? I put about 200 miles/year on my Riv so I didn't see it as critical. I also agree with the comment about using break-in lube when doing this. I also soaked the new lifters in motor oil before installation. When I started up after the lifter and rod replacement the noise was a little worrisome. After the recommended 20 minute, 1200 rpm break in period it quieted down very nicely. It runs very quite now, which leads me to believe that, in my case, I did the right thing.

[Paul K.]

I had the same problem from a worn rocker arm on my 64 when I first bought it back in '81. I have also had good luck replacing only lifters without a cam on a few Caddy 472s. Got about 30k+ miles out of one without problems before I sold it. A running compression test before the lifter replacement and maybe 5k miles after will give you an idea if your cam is rejecting the new lifters and going south. Also, parts are not parts anymore and the guys here in San Diego at Schneider Camshafts say to use only lifters from USA. I am resealing my 425 now and installing a little hotter cam, got a set of US made Clevite lifters from NAPA for $125 after AAA discount. Good Luck.