KDirk

My best guess is a repaint on which the mounting hole in the hood was welded shut prior to paint work. I'm not aware of any factory produced car with no hood emblem, and if one did exist it would likely have been a prototype or styling exercise, rather than a regular production car. Of course in the photo provided with the car being black and having a shadow across the front of the hood, maybe the mounting hole is there and I can't see it.

I generally hate to see someone get banned (aside from obvious spammers and trolls) but this is simple. All of us who joined and post here do so at the pleasure of the administrative staff of the AACA forum; their house, their rules, so to speak. Especially since the privilege of doing so is free. It might be different if a paid membership were involved but that isn't the case here. I've been on here about 10 years, and never once have I felt moderation was heavy handed. Quite the opposite, compared to other places I used to post, moderation here is surprisingly "hands off" through generally it isn't needed all that much as the membership here is fairly laid back, and I've see very few arguments shape up here that required intervention. My larger point is that all anyone has to do is respect the house rules set forth by those who have graciously provided this forum at no cost to us, and they'll be fine. I wasn't privy to (nor did I witness) much of what apparenty caused this most recent incident, and it's a shame it shook out the way it did (just now coming to my attention via this thread) but I surmise there were bigger problems I didn't see that necessitated this outcome. I too would like to take an opportunity to thank Peter and other AACA staff for providing this board for our use, and keeping it running smoothly all these years.

With the top speed limiter programmed out, the speedo should show the actual speed up to a theoretical limit of 199MPH as that is the hard limit imposed by the available segments in the digital display (the first digit is a one, the second and third digits are both "8" capable of showing any digit 0-9, so nothing over 199 could be displayed in any case, irrespective of how fast the car is moving). To my knowledge, there is nothing in the ROM that governs the digital display output to put an arbitrary limit on what can be shown. Some older GM's 85-87 had digital gauges that wouldn't show anything higher than 85 mph, and when you hit that you could go faster but instead of showing actual speed, would continue showing 85 and blink the speed display as a visual warning. I believe the Seville and Eldorado did this, as did some Buick models like the Skylark. This was done to discourage daredevils, and probably made a bit more sense under the Federal 55MPH speed limit cap.

I should probably add that the panties and, ahem, latex leisure suits, were not found in the same car. Otherwise I'd say somebody had a very frustrating evening. Missed it by that much... I do know someone who found a stash of drugs very well hidden in a used car he bought, discovered while doing a repair I was assisting with. Was a tense situation trying to figure out how best to dispose of that junk. Hencforth, he was highly concerned about ever being stopped for traffic violations with a K9 unit present on the possibility the dog would sniff out trace residue left in the car. Somewhat luckily - to my thinking - the car died about 18 months later (threw a rod) and got junked due to the repair cost so that potential hassle never materialized. I suspect that car was rather mercilessly abused by the driving style and occupational demands of the previous owner, though it did look nice.

Ugh. After parting out three cars and removing the interior from a couple of my good cars for wiring repairs in the floor pan wiring race plus giving the carpet a thorough out of car cleaning, I can't even remember every random and disgusting thing I've found. The parts cars particularly were about as nasty as it gets, they were essentially rolling trash cans. I've found the requisite loose change, hardware, receipts, pills, ciggy butts, jewelery, a pair of panties (!!), hair clips, books, various cards (AAA, library, employee ID badge) broken pieces of a CD, drink stirrers and straws and a parking citation. The most amusing was probably in my 91 coupe when I pulled the trunk carpeting and pad shortly after purchase and found two unopened Trojans past their expiration date. I guess the Reatta was never a car that impressed the ladies, unless they had an AARP card. Never found one of those yet, as it happens .

There are two switches involved on each door. There is a plunger type switch on the forward door frame that controls the courtesy lights and is "on" with the door open (plunger out). The door ajar detection is done by a switch that is attached to the latch assembly within the door, this is mounted in the door shell with three torx head bolts on the back facing send or the door. It is supposed to make and break with the latch being closed or open. Either this switch is bad, the wiring associated with it is shorted or open, or the passenger door ajar switch input on the BCM is bad. Most likely is a failed switch. I do have extras if needed. Diagnostics probably will not shed any light as it simply reports the state of the switch input as read by the BCM, so any of the three above fault modes will trigger the same readout from the BCM input test for the passenger door.

Imperial62- it's funny, I hadn't taken time to look to closely at the s60 badge in detail until this thread came up. On examining the large picture posted upthread, it became apparent to me that the sunburst design was identical (or very nearly so) to the 1988 standard emblem. The 1989 and up larger standard emblem is very clearly different in that the "rays" in the sunburst are of a simplified design. This lead me to conclude the s60 emblem was directly derived from the 88 emblem and thus were made in 1988. Interestingly, on the 90 and 91 convertibles, they used leftover 88 emblems on the center rear interior trim piece between the storage cubbies. For any convertible owners reading, look at this emblem versus the standard hood emblem and you will clearly see the difference I'm speaking of. A couple of final thoughts on judging details. One, when I refer to a corporate engine, I just mean a mass produced engine used across multiple brands and car models, as with the 3800. This by comparison to say the Cadillac 4.9L PFI V8 made from 1991-95 which was exclusive to Cadillac. Given how many 3800's were made, it is likely there are some minor differences in ancillary parts to be found even within the same model year These may be running changes, or simply parts sourced from more than one supplier. Either could account for the example of the different dipstick handle colors. Further, don't take my remarks as a sleight against the BCA or RDiv. I have no personal experience with judging as I've not entered my cars for 400 point judging and it's unlikely I ever will as all mine have minor mods and upgrades that would be automatic point deductions. So, I have no bone to pick, nor do I discourage anyone from joining based on my own experience. That level of judging is for those who want to establish the superior condition and originality of their cars to an official standard. That said, If an owner was docked for something like the color of the dipstick handle (unless there is supporting documentation to make such a deduction and not just because "I say so" then that is a matter that needs discussion and possibly clarification or revision of the judging manual in my opinion. I don't know the owner, the judge, or the backstory of the example given bt Marck, so I can only comment on what was posted and how I perceive it. If an owner of a truly premium car was alienated by the judging experience, that is a loss to the organization; especially over something so trivial and quite possibly not incorrect anyway. How many other parts both seen and unseen on the Reatta underwent running changes in 1988 alone? I posted quite a few in a thread some time back here. If you want to get so detailed in judging that you assess the correctness of a certain revision of a part on a particular car, you better have a book that gives VIN breakpoints for the start and end of each version of the part(s) in question. Problem is, we don't have such detailed information for running changes on the Reatta as most were slipped into the course of production unnoted. GM didn't feel it neccessary to do document these changes (other than a change in part number at most) and so we will never have that data. The notion of "don't kill the car" is a good guideline. Unless you are entering concourse level judging with multi million dollar cars, I can't see much point in getting hard nosed about something that hasn't been clearly determined as incorrect with absolute certainty.

The outboard CD player isn't so easy to add to the cars not factory equipped with it. You need three things: the CD player itself (with mount), the alternate cubby hole pocket and trim with a half height storage slot and an opening for the CD player, and the special radio harness that has cabling to go to the CD player from the head unit. To get all these parts is not all that easy, and is also rather costly for what you gain in my opinion. Further, the CD player at this age is almost always non-working and will need rebuilding which will just add to the cost. And, it will not play CD-Rs or RWs as it is too old to be compatible with them. Unless you really absolutely want to stay with the stock radio setup (which makes sense for serious show cars and judging) you can do much better for capabilities and sound quality for much less. A suitable Metra install kit can be had to fill the 1.5 DIN factory dash opening and install a standard 1 DIN unit in its place. Current aftermarket gear usually supports Bluetooth to stream audio from a phone, has much better sound quality than stock (even more important in a convertible) and also supports SD cards and/or USB thumb drives that can store hundreds of hours of music and pretty well negate the need for CD's.

Now we're [kind of] getting somewhere. For the record, I'm not taking the position that a s60 badge on either an 88 or 90 s60 should be judged incorrect. As far as I'm concerned (not that anyone cares, admittedly), either the standard or s60 badge should be judged correct on these cars. Now, if an 88 has a larger 1989-91 standard hood emblem present, that might constitute a deduction in my mind as it is known that all 88's would have the smaller emblem from the factory and it would have to be assumed the larger badge was put on later as a replacement, given the small emblem was superseded by the larger one for service purposes. Now, based on the past few posts here we seem to have established the following: 1. The special hood emblem was made for the 88 s60 cars, but was not ready for inclusion on those cars when built, so were sent on to the selling dealers after the fact. Only a certain number made their way to those cars respective owners, and only some portion of those in turn were ever installed. That these emblems were made in 88 is further supported by the embossing detail in the sunburst portion (yellow part). If you look at it closely, it is virtually identical to the same portion of the standard 88 emblem. The 89 and up 3" standard emblem was simply a radiating line pattern starting from a center point behind the "R", where the 88 emblem was much more random and detailed. 2. By what I read here thus far, there were not any additional s60 emblems planned for or made for 1990 s60 cars, and thus such emblems were not factory installed at all, nor sent along to dealers later. 3. I have no way to verify this to my own satisfaction, but it has been asserted that a parts vendor managed to source a supply of NOS s60 emblems and was marketing them as being for the 1990 s60 cars. I have no issue with such an arrangement if one believes (and I do) that a s60 emblem should.be considered correct (for judging purposes) on a 1990 car. 4. Regarding the recollection of Ed Mertz, this at least makes sense to me inasmuch as the 88 s60's were supppsed to get these emblems but they simply weren't ready in time. Now, this is supposition on my part, but if the 90 cars were truly intended to receive these emblems they would have been factory installed as there is no reason for them to be delayed as in 1988. Either there would've been a supply left from 1988 (does anyone here believe GM ordered only 65 unique emblems?) ready to use, or they'd have had enough time to order another batch in advance of the production schedule given the tooling already existing for the special emblem. In any case, I still think it is ridiculous that judges would dock a 90 car points for having the special emblem In lieu of the standard one, unless there is a definitive written statement from GM/Buick that those cars were not intended to have those emblems. No such document has been presented to my knowledge. This would be akin to judging an 88 with the early silver and black horn button emblem as wrong if the judge thinks it shohld have the full color one because it is beyond a certain arbitrary VIN number. Unless there is an official document that says the change officially took place at a certain VIN breakpoint, a detail like this almost has to be given a pass since both versions were valid for the model year. But, show judging tends to be a rather stuffy affair and so it routinely seems to cause ego clashes and hard feelings over the smallest thing, and the judges word is final even if they have nothing official but the judging guide - which itself may have details lost to history wrong - to support their position. As I like to say, the problem with a pissing contest is that eventually a race horse shows up and everyone else goes home mad. As an aside on the oil/transmission dipstick handle color, this is another area where Judges are being too heavy handed if they are docking for black versus grey handles. The 3800 was a corporate engine that was mass produced at another plant and shipped to Lansing. Again, supposition on my part, but I've no doubt that there could've been either more than one vendor for the dip sticks, or that there was a running change. So too with the 88's where many (most? All?) had the oil dipstick that read "ENGINE OIL / 3800" and 89 and up omitted the "3800" imprint on the handle. I've also seen grey oil fill caps with black printing and black ones with white printing. Anyway, I think I've typed more than enough already on the subject. I just had some unresolved questions on the history of the emblem, and I now have a better idea (though not definitive) of how that all played out. Naturally, if some new and verifiably factual information comes to light, I'd like to see it.

Barney, thanks for additional information regarding the PRO code for the 90 select 60. I ddndth think it was X22, I know that was on the 88's. What I'm still not clear on (and if you know, please post) is whether the special hood emblems were made in 88 or only in 90. It is easy enough to see almost all 1988 s60's that pictures had been posted of were not equipped with the special badge. As well, it appears almost none of the 90 s60 convertibles were given the special hood emblem from the factory either as most I have seen pictures of had standard 1990 hood emblems. So, it seems most or all 1990's that have the select 60 emblem were changed sometime after initial assembly at Lansing, with the majority never actually having one installed and retaining the standard production emblem. It would be informative to know If the special emblems were only made for the 1990 cars, as ghat would explain why they werent ready in time for production and had to be sent separately later on. It also would mean that any 88 s60's with the emblem aren't technically correct as it wasn't something GM intended to put on those cars since the emblem didn't exist in the 88 model year. This is my suspicion, and I figure any 88 that does have the special emblem was fitted so by an owner who found one for sale somewhere and chose to put it on, probably many years later. Some things to think about, and clarification would be nice.

The posted car is a select 60, the absence of the special hood emblem does not indicate it isn't as the emblems were not factory installed. The story goes (to summarize) that the special emblems were shipped to dealers often after the cars had been sold. Some dealers apparenrly set the emblems aside and kept them, others sent them on to the customer who purchased the select 60. Some customers who did subsequently receive the special emblem for their select 60 convertible didn't install the it either out of concern over trying to remove the factory installed standard emblem, or for some other reason (didn't want to be bothered, didn't care for the select 60 emblems looks, just lazy, or who knows what). This resulted in a select 60 emblem periodically showing up for sale on it's own. There is one listed on ebay right now that was never installed, and others have been sold on there and elsewhere in the past. To further muddy the issue, I'm still not clear if the special hood emblems were planned and produced (late) for the 1988 select 60 cars, or if they were made late for the 1990 select 60 convertibles. If they were made for the 1988 edition, then they should have been readily available for the 1990 cars to be factory installed, I would think, as they were already design even if a new run of them had to be made. In 10 years on this forum I don't think I've seen a definitive statement on whether these special emblems were made for 88 and then used again in 90, or if they were made in 90 and the few 88's that have them were emblems acquired by other means and installed on 88's much later. I'm inclined to think the latter, unless someone has a plausible explanation for why the special emblems were late in arriving for both 88 and 90. One other item regarding 1990 select 60's, isn't it true that these cars were equipped with the power assisted 5th bow pins, rather than the manual spring loaded ones present on all other 1990 convertibles? Seems I've read that a number of times but have not personally inspected a select 60 to verify that claim.

Factory top speed limiter (programmed into the ECM calibrator chip) for all Reattae is 125 MPH. ECM cuts the 1fuel injection at 125 to force a reduction in speed. Kind of a moot point as the stock 3800 runs outta juice right about that point anyway. And the tire speed rating is something to keep in mind, just asking for a tire to shred at those speeds unless running V or Z rated tires.

Very good advice. I check mine once or twice a year, or if I'm planning a long trip, but imagine most people never do until they get caught without a usable spare. I just wish there was a source for new limited service tires. I have 3 or 4 that have apparently never been run, but they are still 30 years old, give or take.

Yeah, no performance chip installed in the ECM will do anything to the stereo. There really isn't much performance enhancement that can be done on a 3800 with just a chip. One could adjust the cooling fan setpoints, and eliminate the top speed limiter. Changing the fuel map map doesn't really gain you anything without physical upgrades to the engine. And the only way I can see doing 140 in a Reatta is by changing the display to metric. Top speed limiter on a stock ECM calibrator is 125 mph. Even with that programmed out, I can't imagine the stock 3800 hitting 140 without a stiff tail wind on a downhill slope. As to the stereo, it may have been upgraded by other means. I rather doubt the Bose system was used. It had a special radio module with no onboard amplifier. The amps were located in each speaker housing, and were specially tuned to the cars interior. This was an option on the Riviera, but tuned enclosures were never specifically made for the Reatta and those from a Rivi (or Eldorado, on which Bose was also available) wouldn't fit. Of course the stock Reatta radio when new was much better than the average setup in most domestic cars of the late 80's, as most automakers weren't taking audio systems seriously at that time. So perhaps it just seemed so good to you by conparison. Or maybe someone customized it, but that would surprise me.

Not the blue specifically I haven't. I have used medium Beechwood (tan) and the burgundy, the name of which escapes me presently. Leather magic sells the burgundy under a specific name I'll need to go back and look for, as there were two or three shades in that family. Someone here a while back did redo their carpets in blue, and I know they posted pictures at the time.

I can believe a 3800 getting 300,000÷ with no rebuild. It's the transmission I find remarkable in these cases getting well over 200,000 which seems like extreme outlier lifespan based on typical life expectancy. I have two cars that cars here that are already into what I consixlder bonus mileage territory on the transmissions.

Question for Gorno and Marck, have either the engine and/or transmission been rebuilt on the high mile cars you posted? If not, that is remarkable, even with perfect maintenance. My 91 vert has over 180,000 apparently well maintained miles, which is not much by comparison. The 88 parts car (still being driven as it runs fine but looks rough) has 171,000 and the transmission is as smooth as it can be. Engine is slightly noisy, probably the water pump just starting to exhibit bearing noise. This car was not well maintained at all prior to my ownership as near as I can tell. I hate to do repairs on it but want to keep it usable until it gets dismantled. That may be a while yet. BTW, holy thread bump from 2005.

Thank you, I'm considering new wheels for one of mine and these may be a candidate if I can find them.

Indeed it is. I really like the wheels, any information on them? Note too the added custom pinstripe work on the hood and rear filler panel.

Ronnie, the problem with WD-40 specifically is that it gets gummy as it evaporates and attracts dirt and dust making things worse in the long run. Because the switch is right next to the dash vent, it will pick up a lot of dust. Most proper contact cleaners are harmful to plastic, and especially the button faces which are screen printed in two layers, white and then a black overmask to create the button legend. I see many switches with deteriorated button legends or other damage (discoloration or melting of plastic) due to use of contact cleaning solvents. The second issue with doing this is that the switch is designed in such a way that there is a "skirt" around each switch button (not visible from the outside, it is behind the openings in the front housing) so spraying anything in around the button faces will not normally make it to the contacts, but will just disperse around the margin of the switch button. This may help a little if the button faces are sticking where they slide in the molded channels inside the front housing, but will do nothing for the electrical or mechanical portions of the swtich as it will never make it in that far. The only real opening in the switch face is the slot for the dimmer slider, and that doesn't allow you to aim anything into the upper portion of the switch. Another issue is that solvents will damage the EL strip as it is laminated in thin plastic, and by this age usually has cracks in the lamination. This allows solvent to get directly on the EL substrate and ruin it, killing the backlighting. I've been lucky to have some success refurbing these switches, but they are complicated and there are some internal plastic parts that wear enough that they have to be replaced with pieces from a donor or it will never be reliable again. Ditto with the melt issue, I've yet to get a switch that overheated and melted to ever work 100% right again no matter what I do. And as already stated, the backlighting issue is getting to be a big problem for those of us who want it working. Good EL (meaning bright and consistent) is ever harder to find on a used switch now; there is no good DIY way to fabricate a new piece of EL for replacement, and I've tried. I have found an outfit that will custom fabricate an EL sheet from a CAD drawing, but the cost involved and minimum orders make that impractical given present demand.

88/89 is a completely different switch internally, and more mechanically complicated. The common issues are the lights off button not latching reliably (due to either internal wear or heat damage to the mechanism) and melting of the rear housing and internal terminal strip insulator due to excessive load or high circuit resistance. Another fairly common problem now is the EL backlighting failing from age, and there is no really good solution for that so far short of finding a good donor switch. My biggest warning regarding these switches is never to try to spray contact cleaner (or worse still wd-40) into the switch as this will ruin the plastics and do no good anyway since the design of the switch buttons and enclosure pretty well guarantees no spray cleaner can get inside without disassembly. Usually there is no issue to be solved by contact cleaner anyway, almost all failures are of a mechanical nature, not dirty contacts. When the switch melts from overheating, it typically warps the rear enclosure around the terminals. This also damages the internal guides that align the brass slide bars (smooth operation of these is critical to the lights/park/off switches interacting and latching positively). Once this happens the switch is junk (goodnforna parts donor only) as there is really no way to correct the distortion in the molded plastic and get everything to move straight and smooth again. It will also tend to create a condition where the switch will heat up again and melt even worse, leading to damage of the vehicle side harness in the dash whuch then needs to be repaired or replaced. There aren't quite as many small parts that can easily get loose inside the 88/89 switch, but there are some and one needs to be careful not to loose them when disassembling. Particularly the actuators for the cruise and hazard switches, and the small auxiliary slide contact held captive under the one brass slide board on the rear of the PCB. Also need to be very cautious not to break the stem off the dimmer slider when reassembling. The slot for this slide in the front housing is very narrow and if the slider is misaligned just slightly, it'll break off when snapping the front and back housings together. The plastic bag containment method is good advice generally, but still leaves you with a lot of small parts you have to figure out how to reassemble, which isn't always readily apparent.

FWIW, if anyone reading here gets into a jam and needs a switch reassembled because they aren't comfortable doing it themselves, drop me a line, and I'll do what I can to help. Keep in mind, I have a very limited supply of spare parts for these switches on hand, so if your switch blew apart and there are pieces missing, I may or may not be able to make a complete switch from it. I do have plenty of extra 1991 switches, but no 1990 versions.

Very good write-up. A couple of tips of my own to add based on rebuilds I've done: Easy to determine if the switches (lights, park, fog) are on or off by partially depressing each switch face (prior to disassembly, but not enough to change the state of each switch) to see if they will move inward about 3/16". If they do, that switch position is already on, if there is no inward movement the switch is off and needs to be pressed to turn it on before disassembly. Second, be very careful not to bend or misalign the fixed contacts/pivot points where the two rocker contacts sit. These are molded into the plastic housing and if bent or distorted, will cause the lights and/or park switch not to toggle properly as the white actuator plungers will get hung up. They are very difficult to straightan if they do get messed up. Third, I heavily recommend taking a proper size piece of heatshrink tubing and putting it over the clip that holds the base of the stem extender to the dimmer slider (and use an appropriate heat source to shrink it over the clip) as this plastic clip breaks easily. Doing so will help clamp the clip in place better and preclude the extension from breaking free (if it hasn't already). Note this also applies to the twilight slider on 91 switches. Finally, I suggest applying some sort of sticker or tape with strong adhesive to overlap where the front enclosure overlaps the rear of the switch housing. This will help avoid the dreaded switch "explosion" that is known to happen periodically with these switches as the snap together housing tends to get slightly weakened with disassembly which makes the blow apart more likely. Anyone who has had this happen knows it is terribly frustrating as small parts from inside the switch tend to get lost in the process.

Having no cat will not set any codes, but will give the exhaust a rich smell. If you are in a state that still requires emission testing on cars this age, it'll probably fail on the lack of having a converter present, even if the emissions levels are within allowable specs. If you only get mandated safety inspections (no emissions) then it will probably still fail as most states still require the cat to be present as mandated factory equipment as part of a visual portion of the safety inspection. I know Missouri does this. This does not account for the possibility of a "wink and a nudge" pass from an especially cooperative inspector who'll let it slide. And for each instance of "you" herein, of course I mean some hypothetical nameless imaginary individual. Moreover, I see 2seater beat me to the punch.

Marck, are you using a DuPont flexible auto interior coloring? That's what I've used in the past with good results, but am wondering if there is something better. Also do you have an upholsterer who is setup to do your seat covers from a pattern, or is each set a "one off"? I guess my real queation is what is your lead time on a set? Curious for future needs, as I'd like to do a fresh set on my early 88 (burgundy with suede) someday. I've considered a custom white and burgundy interior combo, but don't think it'll stay clean enough without a ton of effort (much like the white select 60 wheels).