Steve_Mack_CT

Looks like a '38 or 39 120 convertible sedan to me, David - and a nice car. But that said, and I usually do not believe in adding 2 cents to current ads - hope the OP takes this the right way - I am not sure he could have posted less information when looking to sell a car in the $50K range. I know a picture is worth a thousand words, great colors, nice model and having had a Jr. Packard before they are cool cars, but tease us, at least with some specifics...

Dick, so sorry about your wife and glad to see you here more again. Re inclusion, our annual local region meet in Glastonbury, CT has done this for years, we have judged classes for street rods and other types of modifieds, as well as a "general class" - for the guy whose 3 year old Corvette is his hobby car, or the kid with the 10 year old "tuner" to have a venue to participate. I think that is ok, but not sure it has drawn in membership, which is what the original intent was. They do add to overall attendance though, and with that, interest and variety good for a local meet. That said, I would not want to move off the basic mission of AACA in terms of the actual club, the larger meets and focus in the magazine, etc. The main thing I like about AACA is an absence of hot rods and the like - just not an area of interest for me. The club would lose an equal amount of members as it would gain, IMO to take it to that level, if that is the idea, I was not 100% sure what your thoughts were on where to take it.

Guys, I think it is a question of venue. If you like muscle & hot rods, or later model modifieds, cruise nights seem to be the way to go; along with certain shows (at least in our area) that draw those cars. Nothing wrong with that, but if you like unmodified Antiques, Full Classics or Sports cars; best to focus on the venues that cater to those types of cars. Not saying one is better, just that the hobby (if it is one hobby) is so big, you will be less likely to be dissapointed if you are selective with venue. I also agree with the comment that a fee, even if nominal, makes a big difference in crowd. Then again, some guys like to show up with an interesting antique, just for something different at a cruise night type event. If you just cannot stay away maybe you will make a new friend or two who appreciates your car and knowedge, etc. that may be more fun than receiving a ten dollar trophy from somoene whose knowledge of the hobby is limited to his cousin's Mustang with fancy wheels on it that he rode in occasionally 20 years ago... ;-)

Yep, you always take a chance unfortunately. While none of our past or present collector cars would be "perfect" I feel the same. We had our '68 Cutlass at a local cruise night, another similar car next to us, so we get talking - well, the other car's owner's daughter gets impatient, she kind of climbs/leans on her family's car, and kicks backwards into ours, while no damage was done, clueless/afraid to discipline parents just sat there. Last cruise night we have attended with anything. Generally we stick to the shows that draw the older stuff, and marque specific events not usually open to the public. Not a gaurantee but a lot less "pawing" - not unlike the "public property" thread, I am just not so sure I need to be an "ambassador for the hoby" anymore with the general public... On the theft, amazing boldness of some of these people, if it is not bolted down, it is not safe, unfortunately...

A.J. does not miss much.... Seems like a great buy at that price - an interesting body, I like where he added a cowl vent, among other details. Just goes to show you can do OK even at name auctions. There were two decent, definately automotive spotlights at Bonham's Greenwich this year, I assumed were going to meet or blow by the estimate - and we have a lot of other things to buy for the speedster first so I passed on bidding. Mistake - they both went for less than $200 each and I would have been happy with either...

A.J. the Mayfair is nice but does not look like a "typical" big MB, no? I kind of think it works the same way with Packards, say, with european coachwork. People appreciate them but kind of think of US coachbuilders with a car that is so symbolic of an American Full Classic. Here is an aside for anyone in the Northeast. The LimeRock vintage Fall Festival is featuring 5 cars from the Ralph Lauren collection - who I believe has a couple of very unusual 500/540K cars. Unfortunately, while I would hope these would be what is featured, I cannot find the list of concours entrants or featured vehicles, just the general feature info. I would think for a fan of prewar MB those alone would be worth a visit to the Concours on Sunday. That said, this is one of our favorite events, although we are missing this year due to a conflict - I still thought it might be of interest: http://limerockhistorics.com/

Is it true the ACD guys allow these as well as the Pray Auburns to participate in their events? Seems to me their have been full sized Cord replicas built as well?

Guy thanks for posting (and not posting in the "notable Speedsters" thread... ) Seriously love the sense of humor some of these T folks have! Elsewhere in this forum, a few years back, Laferriere posted a picture of my old aluminum fishing boat, which I happened to store outside, upside down, on it's trailer, threatening to stick it on the back end of a Packard...

Mitch, your site is getting lots of exposure - some of the guys on my R107 MB SL site were talking about it after one of those posters attended a Model A & T show in his town & became interested in learning more about these cars. Fun to check out once in a while as I accumulate the parts and finish planning next steps on the T Speedster.

A couple of pics of the Edsel Ford Speedster, courtesy of the Internet. This car's story is featured in a lot of Ford related books, and also in one of Cottter's excellent "The XXX in the Barn" books. I believe it was rediscovered not too long ago in FL, and assume the up to date photo below is post discovery. Note - I see by A.J.s post both the red car below and his pic appear to be current, so one must be a reproduction, in seeing who is driving the black car, assume the red one is a recreation, regardless, a very cool car indeed. Edsel Ford was known to have a great eye and I wonder how much he was involved in the design of this one, which I think is what makes this an important speedster/special.. Also, while I do not know a lot about this '29 Stutz, it is believed to be a repro racer that I snapped at Lime Rock a couple years ago. It was cool to see it run. BTW the Schumacher Special in post #2 is Stutz powered, and currently undergoing a full restoration. Dwight - the T Speedster will have a hand pump as well as where we live is hilly enough that I think I will need it... Love the mix of earlier speedsters and later speedster/specials; if it is prewar, and interesting, let's post 'em.

Pope Hartford - I do not know much about the history of this one and would love to know if this is a factory bodied car or not. I have seen other Pope Speedsters but I do not believe they have the bodywork this one has where the cowl sweeps back. I like the all black as well, wish the owner was around to chat with. A.J. - yep I have pics of that car and a good story on it's discovery in one of my books, need to post up some pics of that one as well. BTW - you would look rather sporting in a nice Bearcat...

Maybe now it is time for that Full Classic Eric Mac? Friend of mine sold a '34 Caddy (sedan, tasteful street rod that would have been a parts car had he not rescued it, and his preferred car to drive in part of a nice collection) a few years ago at a cruise night by quoting a "what would it take" price that was literally TENS of thousands of dollars more than his best estimate of the car's value - more or less as a knee jerk reaction to hearing that question for the 100th time. Now of the 100 times this question gets asked at a show or cruise night, he caught the right guy/timing, etc. so it does happen on occasion. Granted, I think street rods are tougher to value due to individuality, and a car like that, a resto-rod type car, can be really tough to value, but one would think the seller (an experienced collector as well) would have a good handle on the vehicle's true value. In any event, it seemed buyer was determined to own that car. Buyer was pleased, seller was ecstatic.

Hey A.J. thanks for posting - I am looking for anything that is very interesting, has historical value and/or great proportions, etc. - stealing the idea of yours and Dave's threads eleswhere. I am amazed at how prevalent speedsters were both in period, and even at certain times later. I have been taking pics/making notes on a few, whether factory bodied, built in period or built later on - no matter. Yes, I really like the above example as well, quite a story behind it - and look forward to seeing it in person at some point!

While lots of great projects are documented in this forum,This thread would be dedicated to speedsters seen at events, etc. that are worth posting here - much like the "custom bodied Packard thread" or "Prewar Mercedes thread" elsewhere in this forum - they have been successful, maybe this one will be also. Here is a Corbin that I understand was rebodied at some point in the 1950s. This car was at the Klingberg Vintage festival here in CT in June - a fantastic show for early stuff. Both it's long term and more recent owner were present, and they claimed to have had the car up to around 60 MPH at some point. The car, I believe is out of Vermont.

As a follow up to Layden's suggestion try Rootlieb in CA, you can google them and download the catalog; I tried but apparently the attachment is too big. They also make a few versions of the Torpedo tank (factory sporty Ford T), with at least one with a 26" length so the extra 3 inches may get you closer to where you need to be. As an aside, if you fabricate your own, Langs, Rootlieb, etc. have fillers that would likely work for you as well.

Money aside, a couple considerations IMO, having had a '39 Chevy (pretty close to a '37) & a Model A. Lots of advancement in driveability in those 10 years, I always liked the way my Chevy handled, steered, etc. - more speed than an "A", easier to shift in traffic, great around town cars, not too big to manouver easilly like some longer wheelbase cars of the late 30s. Chevy parts, while not supported by quite as many vendors as with the Model A, are not expensive and pretty much everything is available. You cannot keep them all but the '39 Chevy is one I wish I kept.

Seeker, sorry to hear about your Vette, BTW on the other thread. In any event the only time I had someone make a ridiculas offer, I told him to knock on the door if he wanted to get serious and went in the house - he did not buy. Mentally I have always figured anywhere inside 10% if "reasonable haggling space", or a starting point but I know people who have done well making polite offers much lower than that. It is always tough, but in the end who sells for a price they do not consider acceptable? What do others think is the typical haggling range? Does anyone here look at a car with say an asking price of $18K expecting to offer $10 or $12K? Just curious what this group thinks of that..

A.J. every now and then you see an article on some well known coachbuilt cars & they reference fitment issues like that with handbuilt cars, it is always interesting. Of course today if anyone of us were involved in a project like Craig's we would want it as precise as can be. Craig - sounds like patience has really paid off, seems to me you were looking at MB powertrain options some time ago, did not reallize chassis came with powertrain which is a huge plus, obviously! My guess is your builder has more time in this than he will ever accurately bill you for - but he has probably calculated that into the hourly rate...

Great progress on the Special Roadster, Craig. Can you share the approximate amount of hours to get to that stage and what you think it will be in total for the body? What have you decided on for powertrain?

Matt, nothing political there, just a great fresh perspective on this - these are different markets; and your description helps drive that home. That, along wiht Roger's comments about funding someone elses fun really boil the market down. Seeker wants full retail for his car which is understandable, and finding the right guy who is comfortable taking the plunge is the challenge - all that mechanical work SHOULD outweigh the cosmetics, but it takes a while to find that buyer. I bet he is a guy who will need handholding and a reminder of the math behind that car. I once sold a 'vette with a big crack in the nose, among other obvious needs. The advice from older, wiser (as in they never would have bought the POS I foolishly had to have at 21) vette guys was to clean up the car, wash, wax, dress tires - "well, yes but it needs this, that etc." "yes, but people like shiny and can envision themselves in it easier, kid" Your selling an image as well as a machine. Good advice, I have learned over the years.

Eric Mac, you and your wife made a good choice. I think people tend to forget in this hobby, for some unknown reason, that 95% or more of our cars are not investments. Buying and selling in the 5% that are, really requires a different approach, a lot of money is at stake and understandably so, the collector needs to consider that through all steps - purchase, ownership, sale. Even open Full Classics are subject to market fluctuations - if you need to dip into your 401K or other savings earmarked for critical life events, you are smart, IMO to not do that. Enjoy the nice group of cars you already have, and focus on that Lincoln - a true standout for that era. Someone above mentioned is sucks to save for your own retirement, well I would argue that in the traditional pension world companies would calculate that cost into one's overall compensation and one would not even have the option Eric Mac considered, retirement has always been earned, not given. Good for him for making what I am sure was a tough, but right decision. The nice thing about this hobby is that while we cannot all own a Stutz Bearcat or '60 MB 300 SL, there are great cars available at all levels - but that is a whole other discussion. The issue is that these things are not liquid in a sense that you have a guarantee of getting your money back in short order even with a desirable model or bodystyle, hence the reason for Eric Mac's wise decision to forego a Full Classic till he can afford it through some other means besides retirement funds. Sometimes you get lucky - would be good to be a '70 Porsche 911 owner right now if you picked up the car for $15K a few years back, right? Other times, one scratches their head wondering what happenned to their market - say '55 - '57 Tbirds. I do not think Seeker is even suggesting this but if you expect to profit on each sale, you will likely be dissapointed more often than not. For what we are discussing here, I do think a factor is a flat or even declining market for non-Full Classic cars of this vintage, even the price of open Fords has leveled off if you follow them over the long haul. Anyway on Seekers dilemma, IMO if you have been marketing a car at a given price for six mos or so, and had no real interest, the decisions are pretty simple: 1) Change your approach - consider consignment, auction, etc.; 2) adjust price 3) adjust your expectation on timing of sale, and be willing to hold the car as long as it takes to get your price, or 4) take car off the market. The question is how badly you want to sell, or if you need to sell. Heck some of us sell at a loss to liquidate quickly - - so we can buy another car! Crazy, right?

Seeker, avoidance of tire kickers is another plus of consignment, each of the cars we sold that way went to distance buyers who were comfortable with the deal. I only showed one to a local guy through the dealer, yep a long afternoon, a nice ride in the countryside, all spares inventoried and discussion on shckle bushings that I had but needed to install. Two legal pad pages of notes followed by "do me a favor please do not sell until I have had a chance to consider my offer" followed by.... crickets. A few days later "say what ever happenned to joe blow?" "Oh, the heard squeaking in the rear suspension and thought that was not the car for him" Translation: Joe blow had a free afternoon and figured he would kill it dreaming... Been there, done that, work enough that my free time is more valuable. Everyone's situation is different, and I know you can kind of comingle business with the hobby but expect this for every serious buyer that you get.

Yep, not sure if you saw his ads, A.J. ( guessing you did as you appreciate these flattie Mopars as well) but they seem to be well done to me. Could be if he needs to sell now as opposed to trying again down the road price needs to drop a bit. I did not initially think so as I have a perception about the value of open cars 1948 and prior, but market does slot these significantly below Fords and even Chevy contemporaries - they are undervalued but it is what it is. I will say even in a slow market, I have seen some cars sell in days that seemed like good cars at good prices, so slow, but not dead. Model specific factors do matter, with the SL for example, certain services such as timing chain/guides are fairly expensive and most buyers who have done minimal homework will ask about that (also not a good idea to take an R107 chassis SL around the block if it has over 60,000 miles and this has not been done, so it does make sense in this case as a major factor..) which is not a real big deal on many other cars. I would only add it is a crowded market at this price also, which is just another factor in the mix that could require an adjustment if Mrs. Seeker wants that bigger house bad enough. Admittedly, when we consign I tack on a bit more to the initial ask and kind of "split" the difference of the commission that way. This is only because I believe people expect to pay a little more with a dealer. The couple dealer friends I have will say otherwise, but that is my thought and so far it has worked. You can always come down, and dealer will advise if they think you are way off base, which benefits no one - they don't want the listing as badly and they are not magicians, and you can expect less effort on an unrealistic price. I am just saying it is worth it to consider carefully, and hold your ground - make them earn it, rather than price it so cheap it will sell itself..

Steve try Lebaron Bonney in MA, they have tan canvas without the Ford logo in the size you need, I believe somewhere between $50 & 75; I bought one a few years ago and was really pleased with it.

On description, I would agree with A.J.'s comments and lean towards having a lot of detailed photos available; having seen Seeker's description of this car here and even on CL, to me it is ideal for the serious buyer; photos show the strong points fo the car and where it is less than perfect; and the description is just what would peak my interest. I am always more confident in the seller that shows the good, the bad and the ugly vs. one who shows car in passing and spends ad copy on the history of the "Jenson Super Special, one of ten due to the tri tone interior option.." The only other consideration is if it makes sense to consign it and let another party make the distance buy comfortable as well as market the car full time (obviously with others in the consignee's inventory, point being they are actively pursuing a buyer as a full time job vs. doing what you can do when you can do it in what is a down or at least slow market) - there are a lot of advantages to this approach but you need to accept the fact you will pay for the service. Most reputable dealers should be able to explain how they will go about marketing our car(s) and if you are in a position to consign more than one, I would definately discuss the terms at that point, making it a little less painful. It seems some buyers are actually more comfortable working with a dealer, just as some homebuyers gravitate towards realtors vs. owner sales - especially first timers. Another big advantage here is a generally wider market reach, beyond local market conditions which I think are really what is driving this now, IMHO.