Steve_Mack_CT

Cool story. We have one local club member and retired teacher from my old High school who is now a young 88 - 90-ish I believe whose '30 Sport Coupe has been in his possesion since 1948 or 49. He is a remarkable person, until recently, despite lingering effects from Polio as a child, he drove the car quite regularly. Now and then various friends and club members drive him in it to club events, shows and parades. An example of an everyday car that is 10 times more interesting due to the history.

Alex, first apologies, I know we discussed my sending some excess reading material your way, and I STILL have your PM in my inbox, I really need to get to that cleaning project, but life keeps getting in the way... That said, I wanted to share a hint simillar to Karguy's. If you are interested in Full Classics, as I know you are, I am sure by now you know much more than the average joe on these particular cars. Approach the owner with a few tidbits about their marque or better yet, specific car. I have done this with great success before, sometimes, the chore is moving on without offending the now very chatty owner. That is not a guarantee, people with attitude problems exist everywhere, but for the person who may be a little more introverted it has worked well for me over the years. Kind of hot for an MG "T" series right now, and it is interesting, a couple folks I have approached at shows have been great, but one guy at a recent show was as you describe above despite my trusty approach. Makes me chuckle to myself having had more valuable cars, and in a position to buy one every bit as equal to his, my point being you never know who you are talking to. I guess that "snob appeal" is prevelant everywhere to some degree, and maybe that is how he gets enjoyment from the hobby. Who is missing out here? Hmmm... PS - much more important than shows, if you want to interact with old car people join your local AACA region!!! I guarantee some, if not most or all local members will welcome you. It is an entree into the worlds/homes etc. of hobbyists and collectors you wont get to nearly as quickly "on the outside". Glad to hear you on the forum, and glad the interest is still there.

Sounds nice. I took the liberty of posting the link to this ad on the "Benzworld R107" forum - probably the most active Internet forum devoted to the 107 chassis (SL variants '72 - 89) out there. Good luck with it.

Posting later than usual this year - our annual CCR AACA Spring show is NEXT WEEKEND June 9. See the attached flyer for details. http://www.cenconnaaca.org/Distributor/Car%20Show%20Flyer%202013.pdf Also, if you happen to live in the area you may want to consider joining our region ~ Antique Automobile Club of America - Central Connecticut Region Looking forward to seeing some of you this year, will have the Signal Red SL in the "member's cars display only" area. Steve

Helfen, stone stock WRX times are not that far off depending on the year. You have to admit that is pretty impressive for an entry/economy car derivative. Subaru 0-60 Times & Subaru Quarter Mile Times | 2013 Subaru WRX Sti 0-60, BRZ, Tribeca, Outback, Forester and 2012 Subaru Legacy 0 to 60 stats!

I often hear younger people might like these but they are "priced out of the market" - from what I can tell a lot of them lump these cars in with all the other antiques in general. Some of these young enthusiasts could afford to buy one, but opt instead to personalize stock Subaru WRX sedans that will walk away from 95% of the era's best without breaking a sweat. That is not a criticism of the musclecar, its fans or anything, but just an observation. But they are certainly represent an important era to collectors, and while not my focus they are pretty cool, but many relatively mundane cars today are indeed, faster than all but the most powerful, very limited production models.

West I cannot speak to the marketing plan behind the tach - I remember seeing that at least once before, what would be interesting is it if is in the 1939 Full line Accesory Catalog. I had a perfect one I sold to "Packard Lover" on this forum last summer. Maybe if he sees this he will check it out. I do know some options such as rear end ratio, and perhaps high compression head, were not covered in that catalog, even though it was a full line "Prestige" type brochure. I never felt the need for an OD with the gears my car had, and while not an expert I was told that they were not all the same. I think Tom Laferriere, for example, does not have these gears in his '39 120 coupe, and it is a 50 - 55 mph car. Mine would do 60 - 65 comfortably all day long. A tach would be cool though, for sure...

Here is an example of every situation being individual. Someone raised this car on another forum due to the attractive woman in period attire (who owns it, as it turns out) as an example of a great way to sell a car. She is great and all, but the pics are not the best and not that detailed. This is a nice, but not perfect 120, the exact same car as one I sold a year ago, in very simillar shape - as of this AM, just over $30K, quite a bit above market, IMO... Packard : 120 standard in Packard | eBay Motors I doubt ms. Von Teese has enough celeberty value to impact this sale but you never know, I had never heard of her, but I guess she is a celeb of some type. Good, authentic color, nice #3 - my guess is the usual little things need attention, like the steering wheel under that cover, etc. A great car to drive but $30K plus, wow....

FYI Rolling Sculpture had been out of print for some time and was fairly pricey but it has recently been reprinted and is available online through the ACD museum for just under $50.00. Pfau also wrote "The Coachbuilt Packard" which is also out of print but shows up from time to time.

Building models seems like another lost past time - Guy's post #9 reminds me of the 1/12 scale MG TC and Rolls Royce sedan(maybe it was a 20/25, or a Wraith, not sure now - I know it was a pretty unusual model, even back in the day) models I built around age 12. Could almost be it's own thread. At least I kept all the 1/43 cars.

Or in 25 years the model is sitting on your grandson's bookshelf, and it is priceless....

Funny T-head is featuring a Brewster this morning on another thread, as that was what I initially thought of in regards to coachbuilt cars on non Classic chassis. On one hand, one could argue the Beuhrig "A" was hand modified (not coachbuilt from scratch, though) in the ACD shops to the specifications of one of the most revered designers of the Classic era, but on the other hand, it is still a 4 cylinder Model A chassis - I may be wrong but I do not think any 4 cylinder cars are Classics? A.J. I have seen some other coachbuilt derivatives of early V-8 Fords as early as 1932 but to my knowledge none of them are Classics. Correction - I just happen to have the 2011 roster here and there are 4 of them listed, '32 to '37.

Of course that would be the most likely response West - but it would be a star at most any concours, which shows there are plenty of venues out there for interesting cars.

I have to agree, in reference to the Packard Values thread, if you go out and ask about values on an internet forum, you are going to get feedback. Matt, your professional opinion as well as those of some others who weighed in seemed fair to me, and in good faith FWIW. To get back to the more general question, since I posted this question 4 years ago I have also learned a bit more about venues. I think points judging has it's place, but is not the be it all end all either. Glad AACA has a class for this type of car, as Matt's Duesy example or Oldcar's Packard would add to any meet. These also seem like they would be welcome at any concours as well, or most any tour for that matter. I am aware of at least a couple of pretty well researched replicas of Gordon Beuhrig's famous Model A - wonder how a car like that would be received by MARC, MAFCA, AACA, etc. I have posed this hypothetical once before but imagine the authentic car still existed, does CCCA accept it? Just food for discussion..

Pomeroy, glad I happenned on this as your post showed up on the "general forum menu" - that is one NICE original ride you have there. Thanks for sharing the pics - what a find. Have a great season with it!

Yep, Oldcar, your car was the one I was referencing, and I agree with your yard sale assessment that the body was striking even in unrestored form. The results of your work are outstanding, and you picked great colors as well, FWIW. To be clear, my initial post was academic in nature just as Restorer pointed out, and not critical of the car - I think, at the time the origin of the body was unkown? In any event beautiful car - good luck selling it. A.J. already knows of at least one AACA event (well, local, small timey BUT run by an AACA region ) who are hoping to feature the Schumacher Special - when the time comes...

Chris and Frank, we had the chance to admire your cars as well - Chris I thought I recognized the name from the forum, and was wondering if you made the run from the NW corner vs. trailered - very cool. I think Dave's car was in the row earmarked for prior year show winners...

This is not that rare of a practice with Model A people also. I cannot remember the name of it but a couple of the parts houses used to supply a tray and bracket to go under the rear main seal, the primary but not only way an "A" marks its territory...

Seeker, we saw the Erksine which would have been a great car to recussitate for local shows and parades as is. A couple of other car corral standouts, IMHO - presentable, early Corvair convertible for $3,500; really decent '41 Olds sedan (the sedan without the quarter window, a nice bodystyle for that era GM IMO) with a 6 and Hydromatic transmission for $7,800 or so, and a Rambler wagon in really good original shape, a tad over $10K, I think. On the dreamer end of the spectrum, was a nice but unrestored '71 Mb 280 SL "Pagoda" in the right signal red and tan colors, but in need of paint and a good clean up at the very least, and my guess would be mechanical attention - looked like a recent escapee from the back of the garage - at $51K, or roughly what a really nice Pagoda should bring. This car, to me seemed overpriced by about $20K or more. Also, a '38 Olds sedan that appeared to have been a junkyard or field car was offered for around $3,800 - but the seller did note it was the same model Ralphie's dad drove in "The Christmas Story", so at least he had a sense of humor. I think we spent a whole $12 in the swap, some key gas an oil people were not their this year, lots of stuff but not the real nice stuff. Great showfield, missed Dandy Dave again, but did see a Cunningham and a nice selection of prewar cars and sports cars so it was a great day overall.

Thanks for posting, Dave. Will be there Sunday as well. Last two years we saw the Buick Roadster, but "Dandy Dave" must have been off kabitzing elsewhere. Hope third time is a charm. Last year we loaded the little SL with parts, met a few folks there and actually brought home a few bucks. This year I hope to find some gas and oil stuff and take in the show.

Ahh I re-read this thread from 2010 - my how time has passed. I think a lot of the cars mentioned have been tracking relatively close to where they were. Interesting Rusty mentioned Porsche 911 almost as an afterthought, along with the MB "107" chassis cars. I think the early, short wheelbase 911 cars would have been the ticket, looking strictly at value rises, as they have enjoyed a pretty nice escalation in the last two years, and appear to be continuing for now. If one were to buy a "couple 911 cars" - but early ones, as Rusty suggested, I believe they could have doubled their money. We actually ended up with one of the Mercedes SLs Rusty pointed out, and while not necessarily an "investment" they are slowly climbing in value, but are far too numerous that I would ever think they will follow the 911 cars in value. Regardless, a perfect compromise between the ability to use very frequently in season and being a quasi collectible car. We sold our '39 Packard pretty much at a break even price, which for a somewhat "down market" last spring worked ok for me. I agree with most in that these are not investments in the true sense of the word, and you should buy what you like above all else. That said, to buy and restore or maintain any collector car requires some significant outlay of cash, so this is one hobby where "dollars invested vs. return" comes into play. So it is interesting to follow the trends...

Sounds great Shawn, would love to have you in Glastonbury. Hopefully registration is not too tricky in MA. Registration concerns are one of the things I am thinking about as I consider taking the speedster plunge. While not nearly as exotic as some of you guys point out, I am thinking Model A based right now as I have seen a couple of good rolling chassis in the past couple months. Love the drum headlights and yes, they look Packard to me as well. I have always found the left hand is a pretty effective turn signal on prewar cars (Model A Ford, Packard, and a couple others..) but if you intend to put a lot of miles on adding them may make some sense.

Very cool Shawn. Are you in CT? Would like to see this one, perhaps at our Glastonbury show in June?

Stunning to see how far this restoration has come. Outstanding color choice, Pat, thanks for posting this project!

F&J, looked like a nice old "A". Wish I saw that one right in my backyard for four grand, I miss my old "A" but I don't frequent Fordbarn anymore or HAMB. Too bad it was not on AACA - maybe you would have reached a more interested crowd. Anyway, forgetting rods vs. restored for a moment if OP is referring to that fraction of 1% of cars modified and documented well in period, that is an interesting point. Makes me think of an early 50s Packard I read about in the Cormorant once, which the original owner, an engineer or something simillar had held for around 40 years. In that time, he made minor modifications to help preserve and improve his pride and joy, carefully documenting each of them in a very detailed maintenance log. The car went to a collector who valued that as part of its history, and has elected to preserve it in it's "original" as modified/maintained/documented by the original owner - condition. Clearly valued enough by Packard people to feature in the PAC periodical. Personally, on this particular car my approach would be the same. In this case, the mods were not what I would consider "hot rodding" and represented the original owner's dedication to keeping the car in top form. Also, this particular car (early 50s Packard sedan - can't recall model now may have been a lower level like a 200) is a nice, but not extremely rare or desirable car. Since we are not talking about a Caribean convertible, the added interest seems to enhance the car's historical and possibly even monetary value in this case. Admittedly examples like that are few and far between, but could be interesting discussion if anyone can come up with others. Simillarly I had a great visit with an older gent a few years ago at a show in CT, where he had a stunning '36 Ford roadster, which had some unusual trim attached to it he had fabricated himself. He went on to tell me how the car was set up with OD (I think) so he would not be a "slug" on the Merritt Parkway here, and how he worked for Dragone Bros. for years, as a restoration mechanic. I would not change a thing on that car either, although the mods were likely much more recent to me, in this case, they are integral to the car's history. The car was also clearly not a hot rod despite the personalization. Another stone stock restoration in this case, on a desirable but not super rare car would not benefit this one, IMHO, although others would think differently. Lastly, I believe AACA does now recognize period hot rods although I do not know enough of the specifics on this to speak intelligently to it. That is just a side comment and getting a bit away from my post which is really to spark thought or discussion about those rare "grey area" cars. So it is a tough call in some cases, even for a member of this (AACA) church.