Steve_Mack_CT

Hi Ernest. Email sent let's discuss. Thanks,

All good points on the market Dave. Markets are funny things and do not always react the way each of us feels they should based on our perspective. For example, your comment on 190 SLs - I actually predict more appreciation in the short term. Not because they are worth the current market prices now (From my perspective - above cars I would traditionally consider more desirable - i.e. XKE Jaguar to name just one??) being commanded but because of the market trend. Of course I thought this when many 60s cars that were mass produced, lower end cars when new shot past many Full Classics or fine sports cars. I chalked that up to coattails just like the MB 190 SL, only then a relatively common muscle car riding on the coattails of the few rare top engine models - but the market did what it wanted, commanded by people who have their own perspective. I would totally agree, greed has less to do with this than what people want to say. Just because I am not one of them, more clearly desire a '69 Chevelle Restomod than a '40 Buick as you describe. We will definately be "underwater" with the current car,they are not that rare, and I am constantly doing things on it because it is just fun to make improvements, plus, my wife loves this car, where she liked the prior cars. We drive it nearly every weekend in season, so I chalk up any loss to the cost of ownership and use. Of course, that will likely be a 100% loss because the boy wants it and I would like to eventually get a W-113 Pagoda to replace it, but we will likely always have an SL now, even while looking for another oldie for less frequent use. One way to never be dissapointed is buy what you like in your price range, and don't have unrealistic return expectations and you will get a lot more out of the hobby.

Well, we have not happenned to sell anything in the past year or so but in the past 5-6 years I had three cars sell, ('30 Model A, '68 Olds Cutlass cnvt, '39 Packard 120 Sedan) all firmly in the "common Garden" variety. One sold locally, one to a buyer down south, one overseas - Switzerland. All at market, two under the $20,000 mark noted above. Two of the buyers paying shipping costs in addition to purchase. Pretty much a break even situation all told, with a small loss on the "A" and gain on the Olds. What does this mean? As noted above buyers exist at all levels. In each case I was surprised that they sold as quickly as they did given the gloom and doom discussion is not really new here, especially at it pertains to prewar stuff. That said, the trends are obvious. A '41 Plymouth sedan is not a leading investment car now, just as it was not in the 70s (still miss mine though...) -both rodders and restorers will always value a Ford over the other comparables due to history if nothing else. I do think the demand has changed in that unless it is very rare or desirable more people prefer running, usable if not restored or very nice original cars, for whatever reason. I know lots of people interested in the hobby in various ages but less are restoring then 30 or so years ago. This could be part of the reason the better shops have waiting lists still? Added thought - I know the OP spoke specifically of American cars but I mention these as examples simply because I cannot think of an American car off the top of my head for this year, however in just about every year at least a few cars become notable for rapid price escalation. Cars I follow that seem to fit the bill include the Mercedes 190 SL & W-113 "Pagoda" style SLs as well as most any pre '76 Porsche 911, especially the earliest SWB cars. I am sure there are others, just as certain 60s muscle cars followed or may be still on the same price trends. Once at peak, one might expect some sort of "correction" but the bottom line is, if you just have to have a '69 911 today, expect to pay triple what you might have 3 - 5 years ago. certain models heating up and cooling or leveling a bit is all part of the market. I do not think I would consider it greed to sell anything at market. I know if I have a vehicle with a known market value of $10,000 I would not sell if for $5,000 whether I paid $1,000 or 10,000 for it or whether the market a few years ago was $5,000 or 10,000 for the car.

Here is a quick story about a 20 -something who bucks the trend. In September 2012 I struck up a conversation with a young guy around age 25 proudly displaying his 380 SL at the Lime Rock Park Vintage Fall Festival Concours. As a fellow R107 chassis owner (560 SL) we got talking, he recently acquired it, loved it, but wanted a prewar Full Classic more than anything. We spoke about my old Packard, and some local car guys he is getting to know etc. This past fall, he shows up at the LRP Concours again - but this year, with a Rolls Royce 20-25 - very cool. No "tuner cars" for this guy - ultimately he would like a '29 -'30 Packard - I think he is off to a good start. So price trends aside, I do believe there will be some good custodians in the future.

Lot's of discussion about problems that are a result of driver error i.e. - going too fast for condiitons, modifying vehicls with a lift kit as Dave suggests and not accounting for subsequent change in suspension geometrics and center of gravity - but getting back to the matter at hand, in terms of the machine, I think this is no different than any other approach - you want the right tool for the job. Certainly in some cases a good 2WD, specifically FWD with quality snows like Blizzak will get the job done, we just outfitted my son's car for just that reason - he lives in a relatively flat area with a short commute - the snows are adequate. If I was plowing or in an area that got more snow regularly, I would definitely go 4WD. Dave, not all AWD systems are solely designed for all weather use only. VW puts these in higher end sporting Porsche models as well as in the TT - comparing these is like apples and oranges, my point being the application matters - my suggestion for the OP would be to decide that first and then pick the best of the breed for your particular application.

Matt you described exactly the difference between the Audi and the MB as well. I would only add that the AWD in the Quattro never felt like it impeded on dry weather handling and was not a bad thing for wet/slick roads either. It always seemed to be beckoning... :cool:

Here in semi-rural CT where we are is somewhat hilly. I love AWD and won't have a car without it. I liked the feel of my Audi Quattro best having had a few different models. It felt glued to the road and as long as one understands the reasonable limits of the machine, it inspires "good confidence" IMO. I have an MB 4matic now, still good, and in fairness a bit bigger ride, but the Audi was superb in virtually all conditions. Not surprising as they have been at it a while... Mrs. Mack, on the other hand tells me she is going back to an Explorer (good AWD/FWD system - we had two in the past) next cycle, she has a crossover type AWD now, but I think it is more a size preference in her case...

Another winner, Guy. Not so much loss of value but yes, there seems to be a duty attached with this one not to overuse - but then again would be a great tour car with OD & today's "use" for this car wold be different from daily use... Anyway, Guy, I don't believe you have a website - do you happen to have a list or facebook page, or some such thing? Just curious as you have had some very interesting listings. Thanks

Simillarly, Dragone in Bridgeport offers upholstery work and has done quite a number of restorations on Full Classic and earlier cars. You might try them as well - http://dragoneclassic.com/

You can even do this relatively pain free with a car that does not have a title but is registered (as is the case here in CT, a non title state after a certain number of years that escapes me right now) as long as you provide the registration and bill of sale to the export company. For the car we sold to a Swiss buyer a couple years ago the export company got a hold of me with specific instructions on an affidavit of ownership/who the car was going to. I think requirements may differ with each country. But the money was in hand before the car or paperwork left the house... Buyer was happy, he did mention customs a hassle on his end when the car arrived, taking a few hours but I believe that is par for the course and should not be your issue.

Covers are actually still in my way in the garage guys... Out of sight out of mind, although I was reminded of that as I just bought a good size lot of spares for the SL, and spent an entire day a couple weeks ago making room for it all...

Not a lot but some of it is actually structural wood - the "Wheeler Dealers" did a nice refurbishment on one some time ago and I was surprised to see how they go together as it needed lots of new wood. Edd China did manage to fit in it, it is funny to see him next to some of the smaller cars they get involved in.

Hey Marty regular local swap vendor Russ Schaller reproduces these, I believe for around $15.00 per tag. Not cheap in relative terms for what they are but finding two originals may take you a while. I have his business card home and will email you the contact info. Hope you have a great holiday season - still looking forward to seeing the Caddy!

Different cars lend themselves to different things, not sure a professional ground up restoration will come back to you financially, but that is the case with most project cars. What speaks to me about this one is the fact that it looks like it would not take too much to put it on the road, good for cruising around town, maybe a local show or two in the summer and of course a small town parade. More presence than a Model A (not to knock them, had one for years and loved it.) - and more powerful on the road - all in all this was a good buy. Join the Buick club as has been suggested, and AACA for that matter. JScheib can tell you a thing or two about this car. Good luck with it.

Bud I think makes the valid point that atty. fees could eat up the potential gain here, Dave, but a good attorney will usually sit down with you for a half hour and discuss the validity/practicality of their involvement and likely share some general ideas for free - especially if you have an existing client relationship with them. In a case like this I would go that route, and probably pay them an hour or two's time to draw up the initial communication once you decide on the best approach. You can always back off and cut your losses later. I have no idea of the math involved but personally I would pay an atty. say, $300 to write up a simple letter in hopes of recovering say $10,000 - As John points out they have bigger fish to fry, an amicable professional approach likely makes sense. Have you thought about offering your services to help dispose of the collection? Clearly you had some relationship with the deceased, and likely know a bit about his cars. A headache could actually be an opportunity...

Roj, congrats on a nice find. Sounds like you may have had a touch of buyer's remorse but hopefully upon researching you find it is something you are willing to stick with. Great looking old car. To echo another poster, if you happen to be in the Northeast and are truly having second thoughts let me know I would be seriously interested as well and would have no problem replacing your $3,000.

Dave, maybe stating the obvious here but will put it out there anyway - estate law varies state to state, and the response could be very different from a family member/executor/executrix vs. a lawyer. Dealing with this without your own atty. at least advising you on approach is like attempting a full restoration with a homeowner's hand held toolbox...

Agree with David's assessment. If the car was known to be solid, tack on a few grand, $25K would be realistic, but given the likelihood of some rust, I would think if retailing a $20K ask and 17 - 18K actual sell price would be doing well, perhaps a bit less, like $15K to a friend. It will take all of the difference and then some to take that car (albeit a complete and desirable car) from it's current state to a restored, $50 - 70K car. Hopefully, if he is a good friend, your friend knows this. Good luck on the sale.

Ha, no Dave, I did not pay any attention to how old the postings were, someone apparently brought it back up to the top recently. In any event, how's about a picture or two of the progress?

Dave, for "Dandy" service, try this guy at the MB Classic Center: Tom Hanson Supervisor, Parts Operations Mercedes-Benz Classic Center USA MBUSA, LLC thomas.hanson@mbusa.com 949 598-4842 direct. Tom is not a clerk, but a true enthusiast - especially with the older stuff. He has had a lot of hands on MB experience and is largely responsible, IMHO for the success of the Classic Center parts program.

Many, if not all standard bodied Lincolns of this era were aluminum, and that was my first thought when I saw this yesterday, but I was thinking older, and did not pull up any '32 pics. I would say Lincoln.

Thank you, Tom. Maybe they were rewarded with the sale for being one of the 10% or less who stuck it out, or at least through mid-day Friday. Steve

Hi curious if anyone spoke to seller on the red Brush runabout in the Chocolate field last week @ Hershey? I am interested, but not really knowledgeable on smaller Brass cars and was curious what the asking price was on it - stopped twice, once seller was in the midst of showing and later they were loading up and I did not want to bother them for a less than 100% serious inquiry. The car looked pretty complete, from what I could see. What's ballpark on one of these besides "more than a T but less than a Cadillac?" :confused: THANKS

Wayne, no matter how quickly one tries to act you can still get skunked. One car I am particularly interested in is a T series MG. Yesterday, just before 8:00 AM, a I came across a CL ad for a complete, running TF (4 decent pictures and what appeared to be a pretty honest description) for a good - no, great price of $3,500 - local car. I immediately emailed (no phone provided in the ad) leaving two email addresses and two phone numbers indicating I would like to see the car as soon as possible. The ad was posted at 10:30 PM the night (tuesday) before! Well as of last night no call no email so I checked the ad around 10:00 PM last night, deleted by the seller. Someone must have purchased, dissapointing but fair enough - what irritates me is the seller did not have the courtesy to take 10 or 15 seconds to respond - "sold, sorry" not too hard, right??? Two misses in 7 days - oh well, I guess I just need to hang on to the money....

Another take on it is to consider supporting those who are enabling all to access this site for comoradorie and information - My guess is at a minimum, 50% of regular users are not AACA dues-paying members. All forum members here seem to enjoy the same privelages to post including Q&A, free advertising be it commercial or in most cases, noncommercial posts, and in some cases even to complain about all manner of nonsense among other things. That is not a criticism of non-AACA members, but I think one should consider the fact that it is an expensive proposition as well as somewhat labor intensive to run a site like this and many get a free ride. Not every club takes the approach AACA does. MBCA, for example, opens its forum up to dues paying members only. I get our club's decision not to do that, and in fact host this site so other clubs such as CCCA can take advantage of the infrustructure, to widen access/knowedge sharing which is in line with the club's mission. A secondary hope might be that the occasional non-AACA member who uses the forum hears enough about the Antique Automobile, Regional Meets, etc. that they join up - all good. That said I also frequent a couple other sites I do not have to pay to participate in, so I try to consider supporting advertisers who support those sites I frequent so they are more apt to continue doing it.