60FlatTop

If the Mrs. hadn't learned how to shift yet I could see one coming out of Detroit with it. Stockbridge, Mass. isn't the only place you can get anything you want. And it IS a Packard.

Could 'splian getting over the fire extinguisher.

Tonto?

I wonder if someone was standing off to the side asking "What's a Startix?" Bernie

One of these. Originally here.

Teddy, list your cars.

Not even on a mission from God

This one didn't run, either. The previous owner apparently couldn't figure out the hood release to change the oil, $500.

Here is a page that doesn't have as many analytic s to gyrate through:

Some of those deals clean up pretty good. I paid $850 for this one, got it home and decided not to part it out. Oh, wasn't running. rervious owner had drilled a hole in the cylinder head. Bernie

If the part is just deeply pitted, without cracks or deformities I would look into a non-ferrous foundry casting a couple plugs out of bronze. No pits and you could machine in the details. Cast more than one so you have at least one spare to screw up. I think it was 1986 or so when a friend of mine borrowed my NOS horn bar and had around 6 cast. The sail panel trim on my '64 Riviera has a few pits. I am pretty sure a pin or two will break off when I remove them. I might go for making new bronze ones. For me it is a matter of noticing the fuzzy detail every time I get in the car or paying a little extra and not noticing it. Bernie

The glass replacement isn't a bad job.... but you have me here sitting and grinning remembering personnel inspections on the deck of the USS Arlinton on sunny mornings with the breeze of the South China Sea at our backs. One of my division mates was from the south and his last name was Fulghum. The officers always stopped to ask "What is your name sailor?" He told them loud and clear. Sometimes they asked twice. His family had traditionally used a slightly different pronunciation, silent "l". Bernie

No, I see the guys in the second post as kind of lost boys looking for something to identify with in their less productive years. I notice it to the point that I have stopped wearing hats, t shirts, jackets, and the like that identify me with a group of any sort. Bernie

Here is how the Carwell product looks freshly applied. If it gets dirty or dust coated I usually spray it with glass cleaner and pat it down with paper towels. Then I use Armorall liberally applied with a sponge. The areas without undercoating get sprayed with WD-40 and wiped off. We shot that coat knowing a new exhaust system was going in. I'd say that up until the 1990's undercoating was applied by salesmen who weren't meeting their quota. And their attitude showed in the overspray and sloppy job. I have been cleaning a little off the rocker moldings and wheel opening trim as I go along. We did that in the Spring of '11 and it still looks very good underneath. It's not like I'm babying it. Bernie

Matt's observations are good and before this thread started a friend and I had a similar discussion. We just like nice old cars that are not particularly iconic. We watch the market and have noted increased availability of good cars. Car are a liability. You really have to fudge the accounting to make one a asset unless it is a quick sale. From around 1990 slightly into the 2000's there were a lot of 55 to 60ish early retirees. They had good paying jobs for the previous 40 years and were bailing out with a savings and investment accrual of $400,000 to $600,000. I saw a lot of the "Honey, we could just skim off $30,000 for the dream car I always wanted" and a lot of people made the market perk up. Many were not the life long skilled, self sustaining hobbyists. And found out pretty quick that old cars, for sure, weren't an asset. I saw a lot who asked me for advice with the goal of "just getting my money back". Those cars went unsold and a lot are still sitting in garage with a box of Christmas ornaments on top. The asking prices are still echoing through the hobby. And the early retirement incentives and investment portfolios haven't been so good over the last ten years. There will always be a market. I think what we are losing is the competent gearheads. That drives the cost of ownership up. I posted a picture of the type of old guys I met during my first decades in the hobby. I went to a couple of cruise nights this season and really didn't want to fraternize with the owners I saw; baggy shorts, support hose, with Nike sneakers. Many had a little Steven Segal pony tail, an ear ring and knew nothing about cars other than what they saw on TV. Not that I wasn't entertained, I just wanted to distance myself. Dressed and looking like Archie Bunker didn't make me feel out of place, more the opposite. Maybe next year I will go to a few garden parties instead. Bernie

Last time I checked the EPA was a little preoccupied, but they would surely take time out to prosecute. Bernie

It's not like anyone is in a rut, but cars built before 1942 are called prewar. Not the sign of an adaptive group. I don't really see anything "passed along" They just don't come around any more. Bernie Born in 1948, VFW member #10585229.

For a century this has been a very adaptable hobby, always changing. It will certainly remain, but with mixed cultures, as there always have been. Many avid old car hobbyists have never owned a car. It is not a requirement. Many have the shell of a car that will never be completed, but they can have all the privileges of ownership without a taxing investment. I have had people walk into my garage and ask "When are you ever going to get that THING done?" "Probably never." seemed the suitable answer and it's gone now. They appeared more worried that I. Back at the beginning I wrote that I was planning to scoop up some nice stuff over the next few decades. Bright for me; a bit gloomy for the guy I buy from. I do enjoy reading the forum. A few comments above I read that it is hard to get a car lined up for work in a shop that is very picky about it's customers. Oh, really? Nothing personal, but I'm smiling pretty big. When it stops being fun I'm out. Until then I am quite happy with what I have and what I day dream about. Once it a while I have to tell my Wife "Stop stepping all over my endorphin's!" I had a stroke and a heart attack in '12. After healing up I had a talk with the doctor about the future. I am in better shape now than in the last 30 years. He said that for every 10 years I lived right, medical science would advance to provide me with 10 more. 40 more years is not unrealistic (laughing helps most). After that discussion I thought about how to survive that long financially. I came right home and started studying business models in third world countries so I could adapt to what's coming. If you didn't smile at that last comment I might own YOUR car down the road. The car hobby and life in general are too important to take seriously. Seriousness brings expectations. And that ain't good for you. Bernie

Some of the methods of removal can cause cognitive damage. Of course, that brings me back to why I wanted to do it in the first place. Bernie

I just couldn't pull the trigger so we got a neighbor to take Old Paint to the glue factory. I don't think the Old Grey Mare has long either.

I did all the same stuff and had the same problem with my '86 Electra. I replaced the MAF sensor in 10 minutes and it runs great. I found the correct part number and scored an NOS one on Ebay for $20. It appeared to come from a lawnmower parts dealer in Chicago who must have bought out the contents of a garage next door. There are still some deals out there. Bernie

Sometimes it is not the car that young people show no interest in. When the old fart that gets out of the car has this expression they aren't going to want anything to do with him or his car. And you can be sure he is going to find exactly the reception he is looking for. I don't think there is anyone who hasn't seen him and maybe some catch a glimpse of him in the mirror. He was around in 1959 when I got into the hobby and he is still out there. HE hurts the hobby more than any TV show, auction, or anything else. He told me how stupid I was when I was doing my best. He told me my car was too new in 1978. He left my '39 Buick cylinder head and bag of new valves outside in the rain when he said he would do a valve job. If anyone is worried about the hobby you don't have to go far to find him. And you better do everything you can to make sure you are not him. Geez, I better make sure no one thinks that's me! "Hey, kid, want a ride in the bucket?"

As I have always told my children, that article was written by a professional author with the main goal of putting a bag of groceries on his table at the end of the week. It has the be salable. You can't make a living selling good news. Gloom and doom will always bring attention, controversy, and cash for a writer. That article is a year old as well. A couple of nights ago I was watching the Antiques Road Show. At the end I told my wife "You know, those antique collectors have to gather up a lot of junk to do as well as I have with old car stuff." Cars for toys are a hobby of the wealthy. The level of wealth one has dictates the car and condition. Today wealth is best defined as the extra money one has after paying for their basic needs. No wealth is being fully supported and dependent on some institution. Everyone else is wealthy. At least once today you will hear "the wealthy" singled out as a group, probably a target group. If you can afford an old car you are one of the wealthy. And that is a dying group, mostly due to their age. Young people are investing in their future, not our past. There is a current spurt in arm chair car collecting, but sales of mid and low range collector cars are on a slide. The cars that have always made me happy are becoming more attainable or going unsold. I plan to cash in on that over the next 20, possibly 30 years. And have no doubt of a coming buyer's market. It is not the price, it is the discretionary money that will affect the hobby in the future. Those Duesenbergs were $400 cars in the early to mid 1950's, but guys were bringing home $40 per week. In the '50's guys were pooling their money to buy an antique car for $50. That could happen again except for our litigious society. I got out of the Navy in 1971 and production jobs were paying just under $2.00 per hour to start. Luckily, the Navy didn't give me the journalist rate I signed up for and I ran power plants instead (more cars). It all happens in cycles and the older you get the more predicable cycles and trends get...if you have been paying attention. Bernie

Try this page" http://www.lesabret.com/ Bernie

I removed the undercoating from my '64 Riviera about 20 years ago. It was counter productive. The small amount that was lose came right off and what was tight was really tight and a good seal. Undercoating is also called sound deadener for a very good reason. The Riviera is a lot noisier. About 6 years ago we cleaned up the bottom of my '60 Electra. The undercoating was brown from road dirt. Being older and, honestly, a little smarter from experience I thoroughly cleaned the existing undercoat to remove most of the dirt and resprayed it with Carwell http://www.carwell.com/. I am happier with the recent job. The car is still very quiet and the black finish looks good. When I clean the car I scrub the visible front fender wells with spray glass cleaner and then pat on ArmorAll with a damp sponge. I won't remove undercoat any more unless there is some pressing reason to do it. And I probably will spray the Riviera when the current round of refurbishing is ending. Bernie