Brian_Heil

Heavens to Betsy, someone on eBay lied to me! I agree Terry, these are NORS. Real Buick valves have the trade mark Buick script stamped in the head too and these do not. Note to self, don't mess with Kansas.

As additional information, I got my micrometer out and measured the NOS valve stems and the modern stems. I guess I needed to know just how big did the cages have to get honed to fit the new stems. Interesting the NOS stems measure 0.370 on the exhausts and 0.371 on the intakes. Guessing that Buick used a common reamer to make both cages and ran the exhaust valve/cages a little looser as you should. The valves stems were ground so that diameter could be adjusted easily. The Chevy BB valve stem used for the intake mic's at 0.379 and Mr. Chubby, the Caterpillar is 0.402 Here are some pics as I'm sure there are several folks who have never seen a valve cage. NOS valves are to the left of each of the modern valves. And yes, you have to make certain you line up that 'bird hole' in the cage with the runner cast in the head and make certain it does not rotate as you lock down the jam nut and seal ring.

Also, anyone know of the status of the Valve Spring project that was being worked on? A new set of springs sure would be nice to go with these rebuilt cages.

There were several Tour posts from last year where I had burnt, leaking valves. First time I had the hood up on my '23 on a Tour (knock on wood) in 20 years. Thought I would start a new thread and cover what I did to solve the issue. Thanks to Dandy Dave and Larry Schramm for capturing the 'event' forever on digital camera, and for stopping and helping too. We did get back on the road and my Buick did finish the week. Issue is worn valve cage stem bores allowing the valve to wander around and not seat which leads to leaking which leads to burnt exhaust valves. The intakes stay lubed since they run cooler and were worn but not badly. The exhaust valves were burned to ~0.020 inch gap/burn path/missing head material. 1923 is the last year for the jugged head and the use of caged valves on Buicks. So, what to do? I have a set of NOS Buick valves I bought off eBay years ago for $3/valve. Still have them. Going this way would require having the worn cage bores further oversized and grey cast iron rod pressed in and then drilled, reamed and honed back to stock dia. to accept the NOS valves. The other option is to find 'modern' valves with stem diameters just a tad larger than stock, hone the cage stem bores out to fit and also machine the modern valves to correct length, head dia. and re-grind head, add the keeper slot hole to the end of the valve and grind the cage seats to match. Since going this way, saved the NOS valves for another day and left the cages capable of being sleeved in the future, I went this way. Turns out the larger diameter Buick intake valves are close to (very cheap cost wise) big block Chevy valves and the Chevy valve stem diameters were just a bit larger that we guessed correctly that the worn cages would clean up to fit them nicely and they did, so they were bought, cut and ground to correct length and keeper slot added. The head diameter had to be trimmed down too which caused the head seat surface to be re-ground to a smaller diameter. Note these valves are long enough to lop off the Chevy keeper groove end and still have enough length to put the Buick keeper slot in. Cage stem bores were honed to size and cage seat ground to match the new valve. I think we removed ~0.006 inch of cage stem bore dia. or 0.003 on the stem wall to remove the wear hour glass shape and fit the stock Chevy BB stem diameter with proper clearance. Again, the intakes were not that bad compared to the exhausts. The exhaust cages were really worn, so a 'large' stem diameter, small headed valve with enough length to allow for the keeper slot had to be found. A (not so cheap this time) Caterpillar exhaust valve was found to fit the bill for $20 each and given the same treatment as the intake valves and the cages honed (a bunch) to fit and the cage seat ground to match. Sounds easy since I didn't do any of the work. At this point I need to put a plug in for Denny Newman in Clio, Michigan and his machine shop. Most of Denny's work is on Brass cars and he does it all from paint to line boring an 4 cylinder EMF block to fit half shell bearings that are babbitted to his design which was todays project when I stopped at lunch. A huge Packard block was on its way out after being machined. My valve work was a 'fill-in' job. I almost have enough additional exhaust cages to go the second route with them and have these cages sleeved and use the NOS valves. Mark Shaw has been a big help finding used, rebuild-able cages. Thank you Brother Shaw! Now my issue is painting. Not the Buick, but a dining room, a back hall and a 1/2 bath. If Mamma aint happy, aint n-o-o-o-o-o body happy as the old saying goes. A reassembly project in the garage would not be in my best interest at this time. Edit/correction to the actual valves used, see 3/21/17 post below. Thx BTH.

Back in the day, I had a leaking freeze plug on a beater Nova. Could not get to it and did not have the money to fix correctly as a broke college student. Found a freeze plug block heater that bolted in the correct size freeze plug hole. Knocked the freeze plug into the block (could not pull) and bolted in the block heater freeze plug and went years that way until I sold it to the next kid.

I have known and toured with Skip and his family for years. He is as fine a person as he is a mechanic. They don't come any better.

68-3 N Could be an engineering design change level or more likely 68th part on the 3rd shift design level N?

First, I have very much enjoyed your well documented project and excellent pictures. Thank for the effort and sharing. Makes you wonder if this is a frame DOM or vehicle DOM? My guess is frame DOM and VINs went in some sort of daily log as they came off the end of the line. The frame DOM would help the frame department find frames in the yard or in process to find an issue discovered or know what parts were ok to go to the line. The actual vehicle schedule was a giant puzzle of figuring out what shortages there were Vs. build requests and keeping the line running at all cost.

I just called and reserved as well. Kae is the General Manager at the H.I.E. and first rate. Remember, it's not safe to sleep in your car in Wisconsin, so, get a room!

Agree John. Have the communications team do a cut and paste of a couple of the posts on this thread and send out to the distribution. Same thing for the After Tour hotel update. Thx Brian

Our Thursday PWD Dinner venue will be Parkside 23 2300 Pilgrim Square Drive Brookfield, WI Parkside 23 is 2.6 miles north of the host hotel Map link: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Parkside+23,+2300+Pilgrim+Square+Dr,+Brookfield,+WI+53005/Sheraton+Milwaukee+Brookfield+Hotel,+South+Moorland+Road,+Brookfield,+WI/@43.0439201,-88.142731,13z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x88050695ebf5cc99:0xe73dc6b371ff14c2!2m2!1d-88.1057574!2d43.061204!1m5!1m1!1s0x8805066a15624b75:0xbf0f0d2ba2a3fa80!2m2!1d-88.1081024!2d43.0272271 We will have our own dinning room and plan to start at 5:00 pm. We will have a condensed menu to order from. The restaurant has very good reviews, a large side room for us and is close. The PWD Meeting will be at the hotel site prior to dinner and we will hand out easy directions there and then head to dinner. Please bring cash as the only restriction is they would not do individual tabs for our group, so we will have to appoint a banker. Bar service is also available and you will be able to run a tab for that and charge it too. Funny how that works. Lots of room, so keep those posts coming with attendees. This is a nice place and will have Mama smiling. Parkside 23 link: https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x88050695ebf5cc99:0xe73dc6b371ff14c2!2m19!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m13!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!3m1!7e115!4shttp://patch.com/wisconsin/brookfield-wi/parkside-23-builds-plates-for-customers-appetites!5s23+parkside+brookfield+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e1!2shttps://cdn.patchcdn.com/users/263069/2012/01/T800x600/518545dfa16823a195655a5e48840118.jpg&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiXra7InbbSAhWT2YMKHWNGB2UQoioIiwEwCg Thx and keep signing up please!

After Tour Hotel Room Block has been set. Here are the details. Make your own reservation. Block and price will be held until May 1st. Arrive Sunday July 9th Depart Wednesday morning July 12th So, if you are Touring with us all 3 days you need to book 3 nights, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday nights. July 9/10/11. Holiday Inn Express 7184 Morrisonville Rd. De Forest, Wi 53532 (608) 846 8686 Mention Buick Club of America for Group Rate of $104 (normally $119) (I should have the Thursday PWD Dinner all set in the next few days and update that posting) Thx!

Terry, Yes, Finn is planning on joining Cristine and me in Brookfield, as well as the After Tour. His calendar is filling up, but we are on it when I asked him. He really does love to ride in the Buick. Handy to have too, if anyone needs a tow.

Please see this post over on the PWD Site and respond there. Thank you!

Brian and Cristine Heil 2

Since not everyone will be attending the PWD After Tour, we need to start a thread on our National Meet Dinner. We like to have this earlier in the week rather than later so we can meet and greet and know each other better as the weekend rolls out. Planning for Thursday evening, July 6th. I have feelers out to several establishments right now. Stay tuned. What I need is a headcount to help with space/venue planning. Please respond with planned attendance and number. (Mr. Moderator, if you would be so kind as to pin this one at the top if it starts to drop. Thank you!) My Thanks in advance.

I also have a set of original Model 35 Side Curtains others have used for patterns even for model 45 with some expansion math. Perhaps email me at address below.

No idea where I got this pic but here are the disc wheels you are looking for. No idea on wheel make.

Hugh Not sure if what I have could help you. I have a 1923 six cylinder parking brake lever assembly complete. Also a full set of brake rods and levers, both sides from pedal and lever back to wheels. Brian

First, what a handsome picture above! Great looking 1923! Who ran that Tour?! Believe we were stopped for afternoon ice cream at this stop. Here's a pic I dug out of a 1923 with disc wheels from some years ago.

Ouch. Oh, how the truth hurts. For those not aware, I purchased a complete 1923 6 cylinder engine and transmission assembly roughly a year ago, found for me by none other than Mr. Shaw. It still resides with Mr. Shaw on the West Coast (2300 miles away) who picked it up, hauled it to his shop for me and has housed it too (I get pictures of it like a kid would send home from camp showing where it has travelled around Washington state and around his shop floor). And he has pulled parts off of it and shipped them for me numerous times, both to me and to buyers. Most recently, all the frozen valve cage assemblies that took a week of grunt work including fabricating an industrial cage puller and flame thower to heat the block. Pretty sure the first thing in his new foundry is going to be me and large grease fire! I do have two titanium hips so he would at least get that when the smoke clears. You will recognize Mr. Shaw in at the National in Brookfield, I will be carrying him around on my shoulders to and from the bar. I will be the valet in the black tie livery.

And interesting, my Buick has an aluminum 'surround' for this hole, that has two small holes for screws, but it is flat. No curved portion below the surface as shown in the pics. Think of a 1960's thermostat housing gasket (but 1/4 size) with two fastener holes and a center hole about 1 inch in dia. made of 3 mm thick aluminum. With a hole in the wood floorboard below it. Speaking of floors. One of the most interesting things that came with my car is a 6 inch by 6 inch etched plate nailed to the passenger floor board for a dealership in New York City and it lists all the dealership service department phone numbers including the night mechanic. 4 digit phone numbers. I need to scan and post that thing.

Mark Shaw has a home foundry he is putting together. Looks like a simple part for him to start with? Now that I threw you under the Buick Bus, what do you think Mark?

Thanks Marty. Please share/post a link to this discussion on your Model T Forum so our T Friends can see this discussion. Thx!

It is going to be very interesting to see how this plays out. And I'm not being a so-and-so, these are honest questions I hope have answers within the OCF team. I've attended the OCF for many years starting in 1999 (I have the 1999 Pass In Review ribbon still) including the last several as well as the Lansing to Dearborn Run as the Support Vehicle in 2016. $50 non refundable application fee. The Model T and Model A Forums are not happy and they are the backbone of the OCF. Will they attend? Seems the OCF changes have impacted the average 'Joes' who are a major portion of the Festival as they should be. Many are from SE Michigan and drive to the OCF. Many are part of the Ford Family with either working their themselves, retired from or family members or Dad or Grandpa's car. We talk about all the problems with recruitment within the old car hobby. The T and the A are a major player in the hobby and just as important, allow younger folks to join the hobby. The Lansing to Dearborn Run is not happening, so I've heard. Will the Lansing to Dearborn crew attend? What will be the number of 1 and 2 cylinder vehicles at the OCF as a result of this? 'Motorhome parking will not be permitted'. Let me start with this one. Many use their motorhome to tow their trailer, it is their tow vehicle. What will the OCF do about this? Bed check? No gatherings in or around your tow vehicle? 'Sorry, you can't park your tow RV here because we're concerned you might sleep in it.' Also, many who attend enjoy the social aspects of the gatherings around the motorhomes beginning with Thursday and the Lansing to Dearborn Run, and on Friday and Saturday nights too. So, where do they 'camp'? At some offsite campground? How does their early vehicle and people get to the OCF? 10 miles on a public road from the campground and back? It's one thing to drive from a parking lot trailer to the grounds of Greenfield Village, it's is another to drive across town on public roads in an early vehicle. Will they? Bring the vehicle over from the campground in the trailer, drop it off and then go back to the campground with your motorhome and trailer and figure how to get yourself back? Leave your trailer with or without car at the OCF? Is that permitted? Will people leave their car unattended in a trailer? Seems the OCF has impacted the other end of the hobby that has a motorhome, trailer and car(s) but now, no place to hang-their-hat. (Don't get me wrong, I wish I had a diesel pusher, enclosed trailer and a half dozen cars to haul in it. Sounds good to me. I drive 65 miles each way. It's a nice drive from Fenton.) Now, my Dad always said, offer a solution when you see a problem son, use that thing on your shoulders, so here goes. 1) Go to Google Earth (maps) and look at the number and size of the parking lots on the Ford Dearborn Campus adjacent to the Greenfield Village. Figure out a plan with Ford to have motorhome and trailer parking in one of these lots starting Friday evening after the Ford folks go home. Communicate and organize it. Have shuttles, stops and a schedule for them to these lots. It may sound funny, but you invited several hundred people with old cars, tow vehicles and trailers, you need to provide space for them. Allow people to 'camp'. Modern RVs are self contained. Have fire routes within the RV parking areas. Park the rigs on an angle like they do semis at the rest stops on the highway, not nose to tail with no room to get your vehicle out of your trailer or no way to depart because your rig is blocked in (as you have allowed inefficiently in the past). In fact, require this with all rigs. These egress routes are also the fire lanes. Have signage/directions and a long entrance route that winds around the Ford lots on Friday so there is no big back-up on the public streets and this guides the rigs to the correct parking area and they are shown how to park their rig. Have a cut-off time for this arrival so this does not go on all night and you are not running people over in the dark. 2) Abandon the $50 non-refundable application fee. Want to raise the registration fee? Fine. Make the non-refundable application fee more reasonable ($5 $10?) to cover the application/selection process and then if your are fortunate enough to be chosen to attend, then require a registration fee that is non-refundable. 'Hey, I get to go!' (now that second, larger, non-refundable fee, has a carrot on the end of the string that is easier to swallow). 3) Remember, goodwill has a value. 4) Also remember, owning an antique vehicle, spending days getting your car ready, towing or driving to/from the event, hotel nights, meals, all have a value too. Don't take the fun out of it.