Brian_Heil

Pretty sure the hubcaps went aluminum 1925. Doubt the nickel is still on these so guessing aluminum.

By the way, on the General Buick Forum there is a 1920's chassis pic we need help identifying.

You are correct sir, a Dave Chambers article I read some years ago. He had amazing detail/data. I'm guessing Buick ran around the clock 6 days/week assembly, and the foundry 7 days, since that's the way you run a foundry. I will ask Kevin K. and see if he has any info. on what they ran.

This thread has given me some ideas. (I know, how did it feel?) 1,000,000th Buick was produced March 21, 1923. Engine numbers were used to track total volume back then and not vehicle serial number. My engine, assuming it is original to my vehicle, is 998,878 or 1,122 shy of being the 1 millionth vehicle for Buick. Buick was #3 in total sales for 1923 (a very good year) so I am going to guess, to hit the total Buick volume of 210,557 (all models) they were working 6 days a week. Total production of my Model 45 is 45,274 for the year. Guess at 305 working days. 45,274/305 = 148 day @ 6 days a week. And lets assume they built them at a regular pace and not in batches. The reality is they most likely built them in batches but stick with me anyway. So how many days to make 1,122 and get to March 21st? 1122/148 = 7.6 days. March 21st, 1923 was a Wednesday, so going backwards 7.6 days and not working that Sunday the 18th puts me at Monday, March 12th, 1923 as an educated guess. Now if you have stuck with me this long, here's a bit more history. When Buick hit #1,000,000 they moved the rear tail light from the left side of the license plate cross bar to the center. Don't ask me why, but they did. So, if you follow an old Buick, you can look at the position of the tail light and know when it was built, well sort of.

I like these kind of photos. Reminds me of the one a while back of the chassis sinking in a swamp in Canada that was posted. It's a 6 cylinder because of the catilever rear springs. 4 cylinder Buicks have 'typical' leaf springs with a perch at both ends. The rear end of the frame horn is not like my 23-45 so what is it? There is what appears to be a cover or shield for the gas tank between the two frame horns that a 23-45 also does not have. A pick of the front axle would help since front brakes started in 1924. Ok, who else sees something? Leif? You are the King.

I would contact Jason Smith at AER. He just rebuilt my Starter / Generator. Great work. Has lots of part too. May be able to help you. http://www.aerrebuild.com/

What, no curb feelers? Geez. And where's the cow bell. Need more cow bell.

Best Wishes for your event as well from a 'kid' who spent all his summers up Hwy 13 from you in Park Falls.

Gave the Buick a quick wash and checked the tires, top off the radiator, and warm-up jaunt to the gas station for a top-off and then back home for an oil change. 30 mile round trip run out to the lake and back in perfect 75 F weather with the top down and not a cloud in the sky. Trees and shrubs here are just ready to pop. All well with the S/G.

Thanks Marty. As a footnote, the Delco manual says that it is not necessary to remove the 1/4 in. drive pin and input drive collar to the S/G. (Mechanical Engineers only read these manuals when done). Now that I understand how it works/drives, I agree. If you need to service/remove the water pump impeller then you do need to remove this troublesome collar. Now I understand why the collar had not been off in 93 years, it doesn't have to come off to remove the S/G. So, to remove the S/G without removing the drive collar and pin on the driving shaft: Disconnect battery and remove S/G wires noting locations (Field, Armature, Batt, large Batt) Slide the round stamped cover on the forward end of the S/G held in place with 2 small screws toward the water pump and leave it hanging on the shaft. Remove the cap and rotor and store in a safe place since these things are priced like Gold. Remove the 4 bolts that hold down the cross-car starter actuation shaft and move it to the side a few inches. Remove the small screw that holds the starter lever that goes between the S/G and the small rod in the top of the cover below. Remove the 3 bolts that hold down the cover to the starter gear reduction box that is hidden in the right side of car engine mount ear. Remove this cover and the starter lever. Note the 'shifter fork' on the cover that actuates the gear set. This fork needs to go back in the same gear slot. Remove the three large bolts that hold the S/G to the block. There is a ledge the S/G sits on but be careful, it weighs 57#. Nudge the S/G rearward to disengage the Oldham Coupling a bit on the forward end of the S/G and pull the S/G up and out. What allows this all to happen is the Oldham Coupling that drives the distributor and S/G when charging (Google Oldham Coupling Animation) This is what I could not figure out was in there until I tore it down but now I understand it. The drive collar has a male slotted drive, there is a floating disc with a female slot on either side 90 degrees apart and then there is a male slot on the distributor drive gear. Good old Mr. Oldham. To re-assemble this, it will take some heavy grease to hold the center floating disc of the coupling in place and it might take a third hand to rotate things so the slots line up too. But I agree that troublesome collar and 1/4 in drive pin did not have to come out. Maybe this will save the next guy 4 hrs.

Keep at it Larry. I had a bad ballast resistor once that did that. As soon as it got hot, it broke the circuit, stalled like someone pulled the coil wire, cooled and came back in contact and ran. Drove me nuts. Found it in the dark working into the evening and noticed the spark. Running in the dark may help you, not sure. Also that heat riser is a known issue, it's not if, but rather when, will it fail. But you know that. Day 4. Assembly. It went rather well. 2 hrs to get in all back together and guessing at the timing. It started. Makes 10 amps just like it did on the bench in the shop. Best part is when you flip the ignition on, it motors, so the pinion is spinning to allow it to engage at the gear reduction box and flywheel. No more clashing of teeth to get the starter to engage and it's nice to make 10 amps too. Ha. Set the dwell. 32 degrees. That's the easy part. I had it close and a tweek to the fixed point arm brought it right in. 3 tries. Pretty good. Now on to timing. Timing. Another hour. What a pain. The way you adjust it is to loosen the jam nut on the bottom of the distributor that locks the distributor driven gear to the the distributor shaft. Sounds simple enough. Loosen the jam nut, advance or retard the rotor/shaft relative to the fixed gear and re-tighten. Ha. Oh, and every time you need to move the rotor you need to have the cap off to get at it. I bet it took me 15 tries. Twice I lost everything as the rotor spun way too far as I spun the wrench too far/hard. Ugh. Lost in Space. Back to basics. Go find TDC on the flywheel while watching the rockers so you know if you are in the first or second 360 of 720 degrees of the cycle and put the rotor under #1 wire on the cap and at least it starts. Use the timing light to figure out where the heck you are and go back an adjust again, this time being more careful. Yeah, right. Timing setting. The book says with the lever fully retarded, set timing to the 7 degrees AFTER TDC mark on the flywheel. This was so you didn't break your arm hand cranking as the piston was already heading down at the time of the spark. At this setting when you pull the lever down to full advance and look at the timing with the light you are about 2 degees advance (BTDC) at idle and after that the advance weights in the distributor take over. With the poor octance of fuel in the 20s you could not run any more advance than this. With modern fuel octane and the stock low compression of this engine you can set the base timing 14 degrees more advanced. So with the lever fully retarded, set the timing to 7 degees Before TDC (eyeball the same distance as the 7 degree ATDC mark but make your own mark on the other side of the TDC mark). And then run all day with the lever fully advanced from this. Makes all the difference in the world. Been running this modern setting for 30,000 miles. Just don't go hand cranking it. Leave that to the Model T guys on the Tour. Test drive. Runs just like a Buick should. :o) Still need to spend a hour in the garage cleaning up the mess somebody made, so add that in too. So glad that this is out of the way and I'm ready for the touring season. My thanks again to Jason Smith at A.E.R.. Money well spent.

My donor unit that was rebuilt was very complete, just missing one brush holder that Jason fabricated. Your unit is still there as far as I know. Nice chatting with you on the phone recently.

Good stuff, thank you Rod! My hope is someone will appreciate all this when it is their turn. Day 3. Disassembled the distributor and painted the distributor housing and painted the right angle gear case that it mounts in that in turn mounts on the S/G. Re-assembled distributor. Re-packed the water pump and refilled the cooling system. 2 hours. Next up de-greasing the S/G mounting pad and general area. Easy to get to with the S/G out of the way. While I have a minute, you have to remove the cross car starter actuation rod that goes from starter pedal to S/G that is held in place with 4 bolts and also remove the three bolts and cover to the starter gear reduction box that is part of (hidden in) the right side of car bellhousing ear that reaches over to the frame. This cover has to be removed to get the S/G out, The cross shaft mounts to this lid is why it has to be removed. The S/G is 57# and held at the bottom with three large bolts. There is a 'shelf/ledge' the S/G rests on, so remove the three large bolts while holding the S/G toward the engine to keep it on the 'shelf/ledge'. Let the last bolt and wrench drop to the floor while still holding the S/G against the engine and with both hands and a good back pull that monster out and free. An old boat cushion on the lower fender/running board area to protect things is not a bad idea in case that greasy monster gets away from you. I knew what I was in for but I wouldn't want to do that all day long. I will copy and post this to the earlier post too since it's a little late here.

Never use it for that reason and that the stock bulbs don't make enough light anyway on low beam to throw heat and voltage away thru that resistor. I upgraded to halogen bulbs. Each draw about 9 amps (18 total) but they really work and for those times where you get caught in the dark they make all the difference.

I want to include this chart in this thread to help someone in the future who does a Starter Generator search.

Somewhere after 1996 when I bought the Buick and the 2003 Centennial when you came to Flint. As a guess 2000? 16 years ago. Thank you again Terry.

I put down a double layer of cardboard. Happy Wife, happy life. Everything was cleaned before I brought the pieces in.

Day 2. Distributor. Disassembled the distributor since the driven gear on the bottom of the ~150,000 mile distributor was badly worn, outer edge of gear teeth almost come to a point they are so thin. Everything has to come apart to do this plus it needed to be cleaned. Donor distributor driven gear looked like new, more reason to believe it is a low mile unit, so that unit had to be torn down too (and the matching drive gear is on the rebuilt S/G is another good reason). Lots of nasty grease to clean. All three little centrifical weight springs found loose in the bottom of the original distributor housing. The three in the donor were off too. Hmmmm. Six lobe cam that lifts the points on my original unit looked worn, donor again looked like new. The centrifical weight assembly from the original was best since it had no rust and was really free to move, just covered in black grease. Hope those little springs stay put this time. Everything cleaned and greased and assembled now with the best parts of each. Points stone ground bright and flat/square. Gap 0.020 in.. Man is that easy to do with the distributor on a bench not bent over in the dark with those dinky points wrenches to adjust the gap. Water pump cover re-torqued and lower radiator hose back on. No water pump work this time. Need to paint the distributor housing and distributor right angle gear drive housing the distributor mounts in (which in turn mounts to the S/G) next to match the S/G paint and too cold to do that. 28F and two inches of snow today 18 miles south of Flint. 5 hrs well spent most with my wonderful wife as the kitchen island became my re-assembly clean room and she made homemade soup pretending to be fascinated with the workings of a distributor and my tutorials.

57 lbs. I should work at a carnival.

Come on up to Fenton when you have it out and about. I'm in the book as they say.

Day 1 of S/G removal. Spent 4 hrs on just the coupling that goes between the water pump shaft to the generator. 93 years frozen. Doubt it has ever been off. The 1/4 in. drive pin that goes thru the thick coupling/drive sleeve and thru the 3/4 in dia shaft was frozen, I mean frozen. Gave it heat + PB Blaster multiple times but ended up drilling it out. I went dead center with a 3/16 drill down the center of a 1/4 in dowel. Pretty proud of that since it never happens. Removed what was left of the pin. Then you can slide the coupling down the shaft. Everything after that is bolts. Lots of bolts. I bet that S/G weighs 60#. We shall see, I'll get Mamma's scale and weigh it. Wanted to look inside the water pump while everything was out of the way but the side cover was frozen tight so I left it alone. Would have been nice to see what the impeller looks like but the Buick has always cooled well so instead of forcing things, I left it alone. Packing was dry so I will replace that. With coupling now free and anti-sieze on the shaft I can get to the water pump in 10 minutes now. 8 hrs total and only three trips to the auto parts store. Ha. Good news is I didn't bust or snap or strip anything. While I have a minute, you have to remove the cross car starter actuation rod that goes from starter pedal to S/G that is held in place with 4 bolts and also remove the three bolts and cover to the starter gear reduction box that is part of (hidden in) the right side of car bellhousing ear that reaches over to the frame. This cover has to be removed to get the S/G out, The cross shaft mounts to this lid is why it has to be removed. The S/G is 57# and held at the bottom with three large bolts. There is a 'shelf/ledge' the S/G rests on, so remove the three large bolts while holding the S/G toward the engine to keep it on the 'shelf/ledge'. Let the last bolt and wrench drop to the floor while still holding the S/G against the engine and with both hands and a good back pull that monster out and free. An old boat cushion on the lower fender/running board area to protect things is not a bad idea in case that greasy monster gets away from you. I knew what I was in for but I wouldn't want to do that all day long.

I'm certain yours will move up the board Larry. Jason knew my timing for this year's Tour season and he honored it and I very much appreciate that and your calls to Jason also. Just think, you won't have to worry about my S/G when we are on tour this June.

I had the pleasure and priveledge to interact with Ralph several times as well. He was as good as they come. He was the guy Buick sent out in the field back in the day when no one else could figure out what was the solution to a problem with a Dynaflow, and lots of other areas too. Expert is an understatement

As previously mentioned, my 1923 6 cylinder S/G broke 2 of the 3 (charging) brush arms (actually one broke and it took out the other). Plus, the charging commutator is so worn, it looks like a small spool of thread, a guess would be at least 100,000 miles on the unit, heck I've put 30,000 on it,make that more like 150,000 miles. Lucky for me, Terry W. saw a S/G and bought it some years ago and I was able to buy it from him and its been on the shelf waiting. These things are darn near year to year specific as has been covered here on the forum before. Mine is a Delco #249. After two years of touring and playing with battery chargers and extension cords like a guy with a modern electric car trying to keep my battery up, I took the S/G bought from Terry to Jason Smith at A.E.R. as it had far fewer miles on it than mine based on the excellent condition of the commutators but still needed to be gone through. Jason met me today 3 miles from my office in Pontiac, MI (yes that Pontiac for the non Michiganders) with my rebuilt S/G and it looks like new. Another vote for Jason and A.E.R.. Bad weather forcast for tomorrow so I plan to pull the old one and install the rebuilt one. This R&R is one of the few things I have yet to do on the Buick so it should be fun. Let's hope so.

Did anyone else read the recent post on the revised Standard Operating Procedures? #29 is of note. Thank you BOD for acting on this. Here's a paste. I couldn't get the two awards/pics to paste in the correct size. Perhaps someone else can. PROCEDURE No. 29 Subject: Centennial Award Program Authorization: Approved by the Board of Directors, March 2016. Procedure: The Centennial Award Program (here-in after, the Program) has been compiled from suggestions and work of various individuals. It consists of two parts, a certificate suitable for framing, and a medallion to be shown with the vehicle. There are different events that trigger issuance of each item, as follows: The Program Certificate (Part 1) was developed by members Bernie Daily of Brockport, NY and Cindy Livingston of Austin, Texas. It is a full color certificate, 11 x 17 inches in size. It would be printed and sent to each member who has a Buick that meets the requirement of attaining its 100th year anniversary of production. These vehicles will not have to attend a show to receive this Certificate. The Certificate will be mailed with a letter from the current BCA President. Besides common greetings, the letter will explain that the next National Meet the vehicle is brought to, and shown at, will result in eligibility for a Program Medallion. Certificates would be mailed at the convenience of the Office, however not later than March 31st of each calendar year. The Program Medallion (Part 2) was developed by Larry Schramm of Rochester Hills, Michigan. The medallion is 3 inches in diameter and is based on the 1912-23 Buick emblems. The medallion is intended to be mounted on the vehicle, although mounting devices will be the responsibility of each individual member. This medallion will be presented to the Buick owner when an eligible Buick is brought to any BCA National Meet. It is intended that this medallion be presented one time only, and Updated April 4, 2016 28 the award should remain with the vehicle if it is subsequently sold. The award would be presented by the current BCA president, on the day of the main show at a National Meet, and on the show field, or in any other manner at the discretion of the President. A list of vehicles receiving this honor will be read at the awards banquet for that Meet. What defines an eligible vehicle: For both parts of the Program, the eligible vehicle must belong to a member, in good standing, of the BCA. In addition: For Part 1; the vehicle must attain 100 years of age, at any point in that calendar year. For Part 2; the vehicle must be 100 years of age or older, as of its year of manufacture, and be presented at a National Meet in compliance with the rules of the meet, and the vehicle must appear to be substantially composed of, or maintained in, it’s original manufactured form. Initial Club investment: A count of eligible vehicles from our member database shows 300 cars eligible for Part 1, through the year 2025. Part 2 is impossible to estimate as national meets are not static. However it stands to reason that supply needs for Part2 will be less than Part1. Total initial estimated Program costs are: * 500 Certificates - $300 *200 Medallions - $1,500 *Certificate mailing - $200 Total: $2,000. Ongoing Costs to the BCA: To facilitate purchase of supplies and continuance of the program beyond 2025, the date for the initial investment outlined above, it is proposed that the BCA initiate a separate account specifically for purposes of funding this program, and that the BCA makes an annual deposit of $400.00 per year to said account. This deposit is to be made by the last day, of the first month of the Club’s fiscal year, unless doing so is determined to be detrimental to the club, and that reason is approved by Motion of the Board of Directors. The initial deposit is to be made in the first fiscal year following the approval of this Motion. Catch-up Provision: all vehicles which have met the eligibility requirements prior to the date of this motion, would receive Part 1 certificates and Part 2 medallions.