Max BURKE

G,day Phill. Unless the faces are badly buckled or cracked I would not bother with truing them . I have seen flanges that were so thin as to not take a cut. Locktite 515 gasket sealant will take up the slack here unless badly buckled. Hupmobile obviously had no quality control inspection and used everything even if the worst components were sent to export. Be sure there are no cracks or striped threads where the torque tube is connected to the axle housing. Running a flame from your torch will bring out the oil and show the cracks if present. Individualy the housings can be turned in a centre lathe by griping the axle bearing extension in the chuck and running a pipe centre into the carrier bearing recess in the other end, then mount a three point steady to the axle housing tube as close to the work as possible to avoid chatter. If you think the housings might be bent make up two wooden plugs to fit at the wheel bearing ends and with a hole in the accurately found centre of each plug pass a string line tightly through from end to end. The string should pass through the exact centre of the carrier bearings. The Hyatt flex bearings allowed for some misalignment here but others do not. Its all just a matter of one thing at a time. Max Burke Nulkaba 2325 Australia

G,day Andrew and Huppers. In one of our engines we have Holden valves the other engine has Ford Falcon .We used the spring caps and retaining cotters that matched the valves after adjusting them to length. We scrapped the fibre blocks and the screwed retainers and threaded the tappets to take adjustable grade 5 cap screws the same as a model 32.Sorry I don't know the models the valves came from as we just went over to the head shop and got them from the scrap drum in which there were hundreds and all for free. Use the ones not attracted to your magnet in the exhaust. On the first engine we made the pins a press fit in the rods and still used the circlips ,on the second engine we used the original system but with circlips as well. In both engines the pistons are NOS MOPAR. plus 030. I would not use the method of locking the pin into one boss of the piston better to use the original Hup style with the pin locked to the rod . use the original square head set screws if you have them. The pins can be deep dimpled to take them with a masonary bit in the drill press. allow at least an eighth of an inch clearance each side of the pin boss in the piston to the conrod.If the pins don't suit the pistons in length be sure they don't protrude beyond the skirts to rub the new bores.Good luck with the assembling. Max Burke Nulkaba 2325 Australia

G,day Huppers. Those who subscribe to the Australian and New Zealand Hupmobile Register will know that the National Hup rally is held this year in Ballarat Victoria. John Burke reminded me that he has been approved to run the event in two years time. He is going to centre the event at Singleton NSW which is in the Hunter River Valley probably in September. As he has been conducting a three day tour for veteran cars in that town each June long weekend for the last 12 years the Hup tour will be a Breeze without the need for adjustments. For the National we have had regular visits from several Hup people from the USA, Canada and our friends from New Zealand and even twice from Sweden. Two years ago the Supremo of the Hup group ,USA attended and was surprised at the wide range of models that we have here. Although there are no known 1909 type A down here there is 1909 type B and most others up to 1938. There are no later examples known at present. I commend Hup enthusiasts to check out our Register on the web page, a must for Huppers. Just Hup along! Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia.

G,day to all, Sorry Karl but I seem to have misplaced my list of the trade marks . Yes I do know the cast H designation but what it means I cant say at the moment. Are you coming over for the Hup rally starts 31 October in Ballarat. Talk to your neighbours George Page and Alf O Sulivan. They are sure to be coming over. Happy hupping Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia

G,day to all . Phil ,have a think about the hot air tube cast in to the original Hup manifold. If you are not running in heavy frost or snow this hot air is not needed. and you will have eliminated it by dropping the plug out of the bottom of the Breeze. Perhaps the pattern maker would discount the price if he didn't have to make a core box to produce this hot air passage. There must be originals around and even if cut off the missing base bend can be fabricated or cast as a small piece and welded or braised back on cheaper than producing the entire manifold. Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia

G,day Huppers. No doubt David could tell us the variations that apply to the Breeze from his booklet. We find todays setting may need a slight change of main jet needle setting tomorrow ,on the other hand it may be good for months. The Schwebler people were aware of this and produced a replacement manifold for their carburettor adaption to the Hup 20. John Burke saw one at Bakersfield last year but tuff luck for us it had sold early on. The Breeze carbs had been replaced on our cars with Kingston and Holly units and the manifolds cut off. This may have been so that the Breeze bowl could be dropped down without taking off the carb. In making the Breeze work on our engines again, after replacing the manifold I made six different venturi tubes and tried each one with different air valve springs. I even made air valves of different weight and tried them on the road before a satisfactory result was achieved. Little wonder the first thing Hup repairers did was turf off the belly plate. Edgar's research can probably tell us the time of the major changes, like side draught over updraught ( if any of these were fitted after the first few cars) and the larger air valve assembly. Bill Cuthbert wisely confided to me that it is unreliable to date Hup from the teens by mechanical parts as when a supplier delivered to Hup and the consignment was placed in the stores. the assemblers tended to use the easier to get parts first so when older supply was discovered in the stores these cars were sent to Australia, New Zealand and South Africa . Certainly Buick and others did the same. .By the way ,the interesting little cast marks on various components tell who the supplier was. I did have a full listing of these trade marks and who made what parts for Hup, Some are common to Whiting and Little, so if your clutch hub or conrod is different to your neighbours this is why. Keep Hupping along. Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia.

G,day to all. Edgar had a batch, I think four cast at a foundry here. They were cast in the iron that they cast the Ford falcon shafts in. Edgar tried to have the bearing journals cast larger but it was not practical. I think that he had the shafts Nitrided after they were ground. Anyway the whole process took far too long, may have been done piecework to keep Edgars cost down. Edgar always blamed the brakes for breaking the crank but as I have never seen or driven a Hup 20 that would lock the wheels on a Bitumen road @ 30 MPH I believe the cause is more probably misalignment of the main bearings. Few are line bored , individual bearings being bored in a lathe and hope alignment is Ok. but, what happens when the centre bearing bolts are pulled up to 40 plus ft lbs. How many times have the centre bearing halves been reversed and the rear main, the clutch hub, put on the wrong key to take up the slack in the drive keys. Imagine the shaft trying to align itself at every revolution. Hup dealers tried to convince the maker to improve the stoppers but it took until the very last production before they came out with full width cams and brake shoes, and even then the shoes were maliable iron and were far too heavy. My brother in law, who had a Hup 20 in the 20,s, always said," Hup 20, two speed, slow and slower, and both too fast for the brakes" Huppy new year. Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia

G,day to all and Andrew. I could not recall if the stud is into a blind hole so I checked a block that I have sleeved but not yet bored. The hole on this block goes down into the water cavity and is "Botomless". I would allow that filling the hole will fill the water cavity and as Hup 20 are famous at running hot this would not be a good idea. Perhaps some blocks were a bind hole here. .If this is so in your case, remember to cut a hacksaw cut up the thread of your stud so as not to cause a hydraulic lock when you set in the stud with Nutlock or simular. I would run a drill bit down the hole to determine if the "blind" is rust. Pop down to Revheads or Pep boys and get a worm drive style hose clamp. Get a wide one as used on air cleaner connections. Use this as your ring clamp and open it to get it off. Happy Hupping Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia

G,day to all Hey Phil, what a splendid set of pics. The florahaggis folder is of the Australian National of six years past held in Narracorte South Australia Our Hup 32 "George" is 29464H reg plate. Joan and I were in the Hup 20 "D" but don't feature. Happy Hupping Max BURKE ,Nulkaba 2325 Australia

G, day to all especially Phil. I think we used new HT b/n with the nuts on the tooth side We would have used new heavy gauge spring washers and some grade of Loctite . As you go, offer up the centre into each housing with your spacer block ,shims or whatever to be sure the bolt heads are not fouling the bearing housing. Take a skim off the heads if they are. This position is going to be determined by the diameter of the pinion head. For a start set up with the heels of the pinion and crownwheel level. Try the backlash in three places and work on not less than six thou at the tightest spot. Only use a minimum of bolts until you reach a satisfactory mark, looking through the oil filler with your torch. You can use some metalthread screws to find your shim pac thickness but don't use them in the final assembly. You may have to go and have a play in the sand box a few times before you get it right, but you will get there. A lot of Hup bevel gears here are FORD replacements. readily available.I grafted a bevel set from a Willys 77 into our model D but it was not easy.Just keep HUPPING along in 2014. Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia

G,day to all The actual body looks to me a type used on Buick four cyl from 1915 on to 1918 but these used a butterfly in the inlet as a strangler or choke if you like and not the choke hot air unit drawing hot air from the exhaust stove .The 1918 examples we have seen have the main body in malleable iron probably due to the war effort taking the copper alloys. float bowl is as before. When fitted to Buick the car model was often cast on the side of the main body. If I had to guess I would say off a Northway engine from an Oakland or Scripps Booth 1918 on. Noticing this unit has the fitting and tube to take a measure of exhaust gas from the ex manifold to the carb body. Ive not seen one exactly like it What say you? Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia.

G,day to all specially Tom. Perhaps its too late but don't re cut the radius in the hub . Grind a radius on the bearing cup to suit the one in the hub. Early mod 20 use ball race ,Cone, Caged balls .and Race later tapered roller were used. Both adjusted by screwing the outer cone on the threaded axle. An internal threaded sleeve screwed on the thread with the od to fit the bearing you are going to use allows a wider choice of outer bearing. Adjust with the axle nut RH / LH. Edgar may have the change over date but as Hup found obsolete overlooked stock they used the part and sent the vehicle to export. Dating a Hup by mechanical feature is a stab in the dark for this reason. Just keep Hupping along Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia

G,day Mochet. Don't forget to turn it end for end One reverse gear is enough. Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia

Well Done Clayton! Don't forget Duncan Hudson and the A& NZ Hup register. Tell me when you get the N home ,there are a few things you need to check before you drive it on the road. Happy Hupping. Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia.

G,day Phil. Bolt up the cam box with the shims/gasket but with no magneto. On the exposed teeth of the cam gear sticking out above the magneto platform is where you will need to measure the backlash. With your dial gauge mounted on your magnetic stand sitting on the mag platform and the pushrod of the gauge on the cam gear teeth produce the backlash by hand, you may use a screwdriver if the camshaft is binding and read the result on the dial. Take a reading in three places and go by the tightest reading.The early fibre gear with brass side plates is sure to have a large variation in the readings. Look for loose rivets on this type On the one piece phosphor bronze type look for a gear loose on the camshaft with a worn key. The engine will certainly run with all these faults and has done for years but it will eventually stop. Its nice to Know when that will be. Without the dialgauge you may make up a pointer of 1/2 x 1/8th flat and bolt it on a mag mount hole. Then you could use your feeler gauge between pointer and gear tooth A loose main bearing affects this reading also. Good luck Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia

G,day to all. Edgar says he uses cork in his cam box gasket. Cork is compressable and each time you retighten the cap screws it will go up a bit . Remember that you are trying to maintain a backlash in the timing gears of 3 to 5 thou at the tightest point measured in 3 places .You want a gasket that holds first time thickness. We use Aluminium sheet and a paper gasket for final adjustment. Stick one side by all means but if you grease the other side it will come off if the need arises when far from home . Happy Hupping Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia.

G,day to all. We bought our copy of Bills book pre production, mine is no 40.In fact we bought two! Perhaps mod 20 owners know that James A Ward produced a splendid book on the round the world journey that Hupmobile undertook in 1910/11 to sign up agent/dealers along the way .Its from Stamford General Books, Stanford University Press, ISBN 0_8047_3460_7. original printing 2003 Title THREE MEN IN A HUPP .Amazon or Book search can perhaps find a copy if Stanford have run out. Jim Ward tried to entice Crawford to bring the round the world car to Australia for the one hundred years of Hupmobile rally that we ran in our town It was a weeks duration and easily the largest gathering of Hupmobile in this country. Unfortunately, although Crawford had the Hup running they had no budget for the re-enactment journey and would only come down if we could sponsor the trip. Although we could provide free accommodation here that was as far as we could sponsor the trip so the round the world Hup stayed home in the USA. Happy Hupping Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia

G,day to all. I have not come across a Hup 20 with 7/8 spark plugs. the ones in Australia were shipped with 18MM. So long as they are not mica put modern plugs above the exhaust valves to burn off the soot. Happy Hupping Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia

G,day to all especially Clayton Go to the website of http://users.esc.net.au/~ppub/hupmobile.htm This is Australian and New Zealand Hupmobile Register.From Duncan Hudson you can buy the quality reprints of the books that you need and subscribe to the Register @ $au 50.oo) We have been touring our N since 1970. Car no 62947 eng 62949. Landed in Australia Feb 3 1916 .We have collected the remains of five others and half of a K in the last forty eight years! Take my advice and keep this one as a parts car. Buy a driveable example. This car is going to cost about three times the price of a going one to put reliably on the road, believe me its true. The car No is above the speedo if you have the brass plate, also on the LHR dumb iron The eng No is on the generator mounting extension outer radius and also on the crankshaft ,conrods ,and on the inside of the crankcase at the front LH Most common reason for abandonment was Crownwheel teeth snapped off because the pinion adjustment did not lock and failure of no 2 or 3 rod bearing.$20 to 28 grand should get you a good usable example. Happy Hupping Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia

G,day to all especially Andrew. Perhaps you have your engine cylinder block back on but if not be sure that the rust in the other bores is not nearly the same. Take an open end spanner and tap inside the cylinder in the water jacket region. If nearly through you will hear the change in the note. You might like to fill each block with hot muriatic acid for an hour. This will quickly clean out most of the rust . Kill the acid with sugar soap, dish washing liquid will do, and flush it out with hot soapy water. Look for rust stains in the cylinder and tap in that area. Letts hope there are none but if there are better to sleeve them now. Check that the bloke that fitted the sleeve cut the champfer on the bottom the better to fit the rings. Happy Hupping Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia

D,day to all. Brief check of the moving point. The point must always lead the rubbing block in either rotation direction. The rubbing block must always trail. The trailing edge of the bobbin should have left the pole shoe by 20 to 25 thou with the points just opening. As said the combe tooth pole shoe on later DU4 is to entice a strong spark over the advance/ retard range. The two keyways in the mag driver gear are for a half tooth variation. My view is the fixed spark cam on mod 20 was used on cost alone . No links to reach from magneto to driver ,no lever to confuse the operator which way is start. I have not driven a Hup 20 that was not improved by fitting variable spark. If the Hup price rose folk bought a FORD .We run a dual spark Simms and fire two plugs together on our mod D and we run a Splitdorf Dixi on the 1911 roadster. Both are variable spark. We run 7/16 piston advance when on full spark advance which gives 1/8 late on retard. We vary through this range when driving. Happy Hupping to all. Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 AUSTRALIA

G,Day to all. In the early Hup the crownwheel carrier ran on angular contact ballraces no thrust bearing was required obviously BUT the tunnels had to be accurately in line. This would have been an expensive machine operation probably done by Beyster Swartz on contract. By changing to HYATT flexible roller the very accurate matchup was no longer so important and the housings were treated as an individual replacement part. One side fits all after grinding off the not needed part no, hence the two oil level plug heights. Fill to an inch below the low plug not the top one. .If fitting modern taper roller of Timken type check accurately if the tunnels are concentric with the joint flanges because the new bearings will not self align. Edgars tip of accurately mounting the housing to the bearing tunnel and then dressing the flange is the way to go here .Tapered roller bearings of course will not need the separate thrust. I would only use the three small screws to find the location of the crownwheel . I would use a shim pack or make up full size spacers for final location. Remember that down the axle tube is a poured in white metal bearing retained by the heads of the rivets. It served as an extra support and should have deterred oil rushing into the brakes. In this regard it is a failure and its removal requires melting out. Now go out to the axle at the wheel end and with the hyatt bearing assembled determine if there is lift in the shaft. if there is any at all, no matter what seal you fit, the result will be of a temporary nature. From a specialist replacement house for FORD look in the pictures of the Ford replacement for the rear wheel bearing assembly. Copy this setup. I made ours using two lipped seals and two sealed ballraces. No more leak. Well i,m called for Christmas Dinner right now so Happy times to all the HUPPERS. And remember Edgar , when you go through to Nowra Your bed is made up at our house. Max BURKE, Nulkaba Australia

Gday Tom and all Hope you have your 20 home . From the pictures it seems to me the fan shroud is missing as is the belly plate. These wont help the car run cooler but they will collect the oil leaks and run them all to the back into one puddle.The pictures show a top of the last style say 1913. The grapic artists diagram in Bill Cuthberts book (a must for Hupmobilists) shows on page 31 the 4 bow layout for your earlier model B. Remember not to park up the Hup with the hand throtle advanced as it will hold the oil box valves open, also when opening the crankcase taps some oil will allways run out. This is the oil held in the standpipes above the taps.These stand 5/8 inch above the level with the tap removed but some have increased them to 3/4 and even to one inch. This creates extra oil leaks especially back into the gearbox.Until you work out your consumption a good plan would be check the level each driving hour.Max BURKE Nulkaba Australia

Gday Tom and all. Edgar Bowen had a batch of dash plates for the model C. that is the later 1911 type plate. In our last register he was selling them out @ $20. You have to stamp your car No thereon that is the chassis not the eng no He may have a few kill switch faces left. Email him on bweno@exemail.com.au Edgar is reliable and at last count had collected five model 20.On Ebay buy yourself a BOSCH magneto kill switch Buy the one with a plain face not the Bosch branded unit as it should cost you about 20% of the branded unit and it will be covered by the original switch face. If some kind person will make you a pencil rubbing of the original face then folk who etch out nameplates surley will make one for you.John Burke has a foot control on his dash board to advance and retard. It is easy to use as it moves in an arc. Dont forget to subscribe to the Australian and New Zealand Hupmobile Register Email jhb230@esc.net.au. you will be pleased that you did. Incidently the number on the Selden plate is the Hup license No and tells nothing of the individual car. Max BURKE Nulkaba Australia

We have a 2 spark Sims on our touring with viriable advance firing two spark plugs at the same timing of 3/8 inch advance on the piston.On our roadster we run a Dixi model aero and can put battery current through it to start. With a trembler in the feed it can often be started without cranking.We run variable advance here also. We run the spark plugs over the exhaust valves here as it keeps them cleaner.Both are running the 0riginal Breeze carb.Travelling at about 20 mph overcomes the fan even with the belly tray fitted Edgar Bowen has the only one iv seen that dosent boil on hot day hills but Ed has a modern core with a large header tank. Join the Australian and New Zealand Hupmobile Register and engoy the quatterly mag. Youl be glad you did. Google it for a look. Max BURKE Nulkaba AUSTRALIA