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Bud Tierney

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Everything posted by Bud Tierney

  1. Pulling the head may just be the start---if water in the oil's formed enough globs it might've blocked the screen for your oil pump pickup or sucked globs into the pump and/or blocked some oil passages, which might account for sudden loss of oil pressure...you'll want to listen to other opinions on this, of course, but, for myself, I'd drop the pan to look for anything that'd explain oil pressure loss and/or effects of the water, and what cleaning etc might be required... "...water mixed in it..."---how much?? was pan literally full of water?? I'm still bothered by exterior water leak...I can see oil leak at front crankshaft seal (not unusual), or sludge (mixed oil/water) leak (unusual without longtime oil leak)) but plain water/coolant leak there is new one on me (I hasten to add that I was never more than an amateur shade-tree mechanic in my knuckle-skinning days)... I don't know how to interpret head gasket question---does it mean you're a highly experienced sophisticated engine guy who makes his own head gaskets (no simple feat unless you use solid copper or similar, and not simple then)---or that you're not aware the head gasket is a sandwich construction, not a single sheet gasket ;like a water outlet connection??? Pan gasket will probably be cork; both might be reusable if you're careful, and lucky, in removal. Pan, of course, has no pressure, so gasket in pieces can often be reused with NON-HARDENING Permatex or present-day similar. Do make special effort to contact Sambarn; if the gods love you, he'll know of others that have experience with your engine. OH---your engine---I said T-8000, when I should've said "listed as T-8000 in 2-3 of my old parts catalogs"... A 1930 McCord gasket catalog lists one 6cyl (8 variations, which could be works designations for engines to different builders??) as 1917-22, used by thirteen makes, and the T-8000, used by seven makes, including Dort, as 1923-25...that same year-division is continued in a 38 Victor gasket catalog---so: verification as to years, or just copied by Victor? Double OH--one catalog says the Dort has a DT-8000, and I have no idea if that's a variation...these old catalogs are NOT reliable reference works, which doesn't kelp in these situations... with sympathy, Bud
  2. 0123:--- search archives here for Falls or Sambarn---Sambarn is member here who was researching Falls motors, started a Falls engine thread on 4-22-14...that thread contains comments re' other cars reportedly using Falls engines AND comments re' various Falls 6s (including my comments, that I'd forgotten)... I'd suggest you contact Sambarn and see what he might know about your engine (idiosyncrasies, parts sources, if any, etc) before doing any work... Will comment again in AM...with sympathy, Bud
  3. Yes, water in oil/oil pan could be head gasket leak, sleeve/sleeve seals leak if sleeved, cracks, ad nauseum. Basic question that should've been asked: d'you know.or have access to any other owners with this Falls engine?? If so, talked too them??? (Every engine design has its own little idiosyncrasies; and another Falls owner might listen to this and say "oh, yeah, that's X, they did that...". How regular/much use before original vacuum leak (daily runner?? weekly?? how many hours?? sitting awhile?? try to be precise...SAME for after vac leak fix and how quickly oil smoke appeared. HOW MANY MILES ON CLOCK?? Before vacuum leak, and after vacuum leak fixed, was engine smooth rummer?? purr along idling, pulling?? no fits, jerks, intermittent or regular missing/weak cylinder ?? (firing but weak cyl usually shows by repeated, regular/rythmic slight irregularity)... Did you pull plugs---are you familiar enough to read? or compare to manual pix to read?? If not, Google spark plug analysis to compare...good first start for diagnosis...CAREFULLY CLEAN around plugs before pulling; you don't want little pieces of crud inside that engine...IF IN FOR LONG TIME, spray WD40/similar around base after cleaning around base, let sit several hours and TEASE out---if heavily deposited/corroded inside engine, you don't want to strip threads...if after out, looks like deposits/corrosion could've fallen off inside engine, you'll have to consider vacuuming out or pulling head to clean inside... Gaskets are no problem, except can be pricey---olsonsgaskets might have NOS/NORS, both they/gasketstogo (sponsor on smokstak forum) can make from old one; old ones can sometimes be reused on these low-comp engines, various other reliable gasket outfits on Google... End of tail pipe color: light=good, but usually has to have extended driving to maintain; some blackish normal, especially if only on occasional short drives; powdery dry black=running too rich (running too rich often produces black exhaust, especially on startup, should also dry-blacken plugs); heavy black/wet black=oil burning and/or too much fuel going thru system...numerous possible causes... OIL: on dipstick--smell of gasoline=gas dilution. Clean, like just out of can?? normal dark, like about time for change? ANYTHING OTHER THAN "NORMAL" OIL?? little lumps/bubbles of anything?? little different colored swirls?? varicolored chocolate syrup?? (latter indicate water in oil) Unfortunately little bits of water/rust on dipstick could just be normal interior condensation, especially if car subject to outside air temp variations... I'm troubled by the front water leak---you said "eventually leaked...after engine cooled.." ..how long was "eventually" and how long between start and end of leaking, if known, and is there anyplace--anyplace-- water could've come from (aside from crack somewhere) and drained off front area---water jackets, water connections, anything?? That said; my apologies if any/all of the above already known/done; long distance diagnosis, without knowing skill/experience level of owner and physical ability of owner, complicated (for myself, I'm 85, and I don't wiggle under cars anymore)...
  4. OOPS---Falls T-8000, not T-800. And what were those vacuum issues and how did your correct those??? Fixing the vacuum issues created vacuum inside engine that began sucking oil into cylinders??? Or creating pressure inside engine that pushed oil past rings??? ( pressure not possible unless has no blowby exhaust tube to atmosphere, or if has one has become plugged??)... Fascinating...
  5. You've got what appears to be three serious problems here, probably (but not necessarily) connected (1) Your original what appears to be oil smoke..Falls are OHV?? oil getting into one or more cyl;s thru valve stems; oil drain holes down into block dirty, oil pooling in top, leaking down valve stems ???---normal wear if just begun and not billows of smoke (2) "...a lot of coolant leaking from bottom of block.." With no front water pump, I assume it's leaking from the crankshaft seal (any other attachments to front of block??) ---I'm also assuming it has a front crankshaft pulley driving a fan thru a flat belt (I'm not familiar with Falls). But to have "lots of coolant" leaking out the front crankshaft seal you'd have to have enough water in there to turn your engine oil into chocolate syrup, and it should've been leaking oil for some time... (2) "...no oil pressure..."...death on engines... Drain the oil to see what it looks like and see if waters in there; leave the plug out; clean the front of the block, and fill the radiator to see if any water leaking out when cold or if dribbles out of pan plug.; If a front leak, get under it with a good light (and mirrors if necessary) to see exactly where it's coming from...if water dribbles out of pan plug hole, that sounds like dismantling, but something might appear by dropping pan... and let us know what you find (dying of curiosity!!)...(also, I have no idea where you'd look for Falls parts, so proceed carefully). It'll probably turn out to something we should've all thought of already.... Yes, 1930 catalog shows Falls T-800 as OHV...
  6. Another general comment re' your "white smoke", which term could have differing interpretations... Oil smoke will linger; you can watch it drift down your driveway and down the block, it dilutes in the air rather than disappears, joining the smog level, and while bluish can often look whitish. ... Every engine shows whitish condensation when started on chilly mornings; it's the same as seeing your breath on a cold morning...this should dissipate/disappear very guickly as the condensed water reabsorbs into the air. This should disappear as soon as the engine/exhaust system is warmed, unless you're driving in a very cold climate.. If you see this whitish condensation when the system is warmed, or on warm starts, that's usually small amounts of water getting into a or the cylinders, as noted above...unless your Dort is a daily driver, water/oil loss would be quite slow...large enough leaks/oil burning would foul plugs/misfire cylinders... I don't know if oil smoke/blowby dumped out the atmospheric tube would come up into an open car; on a closed car it would, particularly if working engine, like pulling a hill...
  7. While the brighter levels would unquestionably be better for actual use, if this's one that has to be as OE as possible, I have a note saying donsbulbs.com is a source for old bulbs...
  8. Long before the present (2008-to date) economic anxieties made lots of people reluctant to spend, the hobby was always unpredictable... Back when flipping cars to pay wife's tuition, pocked up dirty but quite nice Edsel Wagon cheap--owner long disgusted, no one could get to run, and it didn't until a pint of gas was poured in the carb (some of those FOMOCO V8s took "cold natured" to whole new depths)... Cleaned up quite nicely, ran well, collectors were picking up Edsels regularly by then, thought it'd go quickly for mech parts---was I wrong...finally "sold" for purchase price + approx $1 hr for cleanup time... If you have the space, just keep it awhile; things are even more unsettled economy-wise today...
  9. (Sigh)...Perhaps someone from AU will be kind enough to advise whether (A) that little beauty has a T-head or side valve engine, and (B) either way, if engine maker and/or engine model designation has ever been determined???
  10. As mentioned above, check with your local garbage company and/or City or County recycling Office (Google your area)...... In many cities the paint industry absorbs the cost of individuals' leftovers, and has dropoff points at paint/hardware stores where you can drop off certain amounts per month free of charge...there are some limitations on what they take, but a very little Googling etc will fill you in... Here, latex can just be dried, as mentioned above, and then put into the garbage can.
  11. Are we all on the same page here??? The ad in Jay's original post says T-head--the carfolio specs that come up under CarbKings "The Motor" link say Side Valves, which they define as flathead, L-block or L-head...(the engine specs match the 31/2x4 in the ad and in classiccardatabase specs)... JAY: does your engine have valves on BOTH sides, usually driven by TWO camshafts, one on EACH SIDE of the lower part of the engine?? Or does your engine have the valves ALL ON ONE SIDE, driven by one cam?? Or does it look like NZC's pix above??? Technically, a T-head is a "side valve", but that's not the usual terminology... CARBKING: does your link mean carfolios specs come from The Motor magazine??
  12. There're still lots of possible leads to ID...when you need something like this, you have to be your own detective... (1)--the clearest pix of the engine: top, both sides with all accessories attached (starter, gem, carg, manifolds)---if out of car front and back (hopefully it's not dismantled) posted not only here but on other old-car old-engine sites...... (2)--any and all numbers/letters/symbols on any part of the engine cast, stamped, embossed, whatever, posted as above... (3)-- any info on any tag on the carb, gen, starter or anything else attached... (4)--HCCA has a registry---join, contact other owners thru club; contact editor of club magazine, find out who has Bill Cuthberts old notes/research; see if clubs collection of period trade publications indexed or have indexes and if online to search...you're looking for editions that published new car specs for 1910-11-12, etc, which sometimes includes maker of motor and the model of the motor... (5)---same with this sites library and archives... (6)--there's a site in French re' the Kokomo Museum Empire which has Empire production numbers---maybe the Museum has early engine info...those low production numbers make it highly unlikely they had an engine built to their specs (7)---there're a number of very good books, histories of the cars of the period, that list m'f'r's, models, and sometimes ID engine maker; if you're close to a decent pub library see a librarian... All that said, JVP's advice above is excellent; almost anything can be put back together, and while it'll probably be expensive, finding a good 1910-11 or so engine, even if it was a popular model from one of the mainline m'f'r's of he time, may not be possible, as JVP stated...
  13. Unless one of the owners has found some engine ID info somewhere (perhaps buried in some old publication) or there's something on the engines themselves, engine builder may remain another automotive mystery... At that period everyone and their uncles were producing inline 4s of all kinds...separate cyls, pairs, en bloc, ad nauseum...at least some marine engine builders were advertising auto use as well, presumably trying to penetrate a possible new market... While marine is not my thing, my general impression is that marine multi-cylinder (4 and up) was well ahead of auto/truck use; if incorrect, please feel free to enlighten me...
  14. Can't say as I blame her...let people too close and irreplaceable little bits begin to disappear, to say nothing of scratches and cigarette burns...so near, and yet so far... Interesting puzzle---cursory Googling doesn't mention Allison designing any auto engines...Stutz designed, put in his transaxle, did he design the engine, have it built???..(sounds unlklely, per the accounts of originally miserable performance) .he used a larger T-head Wisc in his own car, same time period, but I don't have any 31/2x4 on my Wisc list....a 1917 ring catalog lists over 20 Wisc's and variations from 1911, but no 31/2...
  15. Std Cat doesn't say anything about Empire building their own mechanical parts; if so, looking for an Empire engine is looking for the needle instead of the sewing kit... If the 1911 used a vendor engine, you need to ID that engine, which was almost certainly used in other period cars, perhaps for a 10 year or so period... Check the AACA library for old published specs in trade magazines or articles describing their introduction etc, which MIGHT ID the engine maker, and, if you're fortunate, the engine model... Old Dykes or similar pub's could also have specs... There MIGHT have been an engine change or modification 191o-11...a 1917 ring catalog lists the 1910 Empire "C" with 4 rings per piston, while the 1911 "C" shows 3 per piston... both have 31/2 bore, but there're no 1910-11 engines listed under that size (that catalog is weak on that early)... While these assembled car makers often built bodies, all running gear was usually from outside vendors who sold to many makers. With sympathy, Bud.. (I'm assuming Mark is looking into what engine the one near him has)...
  16. Many thxx to all who replied... The Mopar sites are full of condemnation of this engine, almost all comments on any internal repairs being to, if at all possible, simply pull it out and replace it with a more reliable one... I had dimly remembered some CCptn engine that required--REQUIRED--3K oil changes with top quality oils to stay together, but'd not connected it with our friends until recently. I'll pass on the info to a local son and daughter, who can probably afford to get the car into a shop to pull the pan for a look-see.. Who knows, running this car in Oregon, without any really long road trips, no gridlock bumper to bumper hours, the thing may outlast us all...
  17. Just discovered old family friend---widow, thin income, no real resources--has one of these crummy disintegrating engines... Online consensus seems to be design faulty in that oil circulation passages in block drilled too small, that operating temp engine, especially in warm climates, city street traffic etc literally cooks oil, causing extreme sludging to point engin emoving parts starved for oil, self-destructs... This vehicle's lived here in western Oregon, driven lightly, little if any hi-temp operation, has 70K or so, still going... Various sites've noted synthetic oil takes heat better, can cure problem or at least stave off disaster, so: Would synthetic dislodge existing sludge, risk engine?? If not safe to just switch, what'd be the easiest (cheapest) way to check innards---drop the pan, see what's there?? She simply doesn't have the money for a complete teardown; the car probably isn't worth what that would cost, anyway... Any comments/sympathy appreciated.... Bud T
  18. (Sigh)---shall we all doff our caps and engage in a moment of sympathetic silence for all the oft-maligned partscounter people?? R32's Spexc Sheet above shows the H models all using a 41/2x51/2. Clear, concise, .what could go wrong?? Need head gasket etc?? 41 McCord gasket (360 pgs) model-engine index shows--oops--"H" with own Y (#5250) and own M (#5272) engine (no years)...that catalog doesn't list any 4s, only 6s...OK, get older catalog.. 1930 Mccord (300 pgs) lists #5250 for various models, 1=6Ton. 1920-26, incl an H4, that engine apparently issued in 4 and 41/4x5 (gas/kero?? upgrade?? options??--doesn't say) ...... It also lists # 5272 for various models 3-61/2Ton, incl "H-HS", (no years) a 41/2 x 5. (30 McCord doesn't ID engines by either "Y" or "M", and doesn't have truck model-engine used index)..... So, how about piston assembly? 36 King Products Ahhh---1920-28 H, some 26s and 27s,incl 27H, own "Y" motor....41/4 bore Ooops--next line---1922-28 Cs, FH, GK, 27H, 27K series, Delivery truck A, 11/2-3Ton. own "H" motor...4" bore (but 41 McCord model-engine index doesn't list any "H" at all... I'm not surprised they get it wrong sometimes, I'm surprised they're ever able to ever get it right...
  19. (Sigh) GB&S isn't (aren't?) obscure, they're practically household names compared to Continental (of Chicago, no connection to the better known Cont'l of Muskegon etc)...the two Cont'ls ran ads next to each other, Cont'l Muskegon ran ads saying not to be confused by that other Cont'l...... Ergon (out of Hazard)... Milwaukie (I believe there were two Milwaukies)... Schlosser....and numerous (innumerable?) others who've faded into history (all sold, or at least advertised, as 4cyl vertical auto inlines, and possibly some 6s, but I'd have to pore thru old notes)...... When you riffle thru the old trade journals (Googlebooks) the number of old engine builder's astonishing...I've never had the chutzpah to email Olsons for a head gasket for a Schlosser...(they'd probably ask "...which one?..")...
  20. (1) terraturftires.com is another source for solid tire work, well regarded on another site... (2) Several have commented that Amish woodworkers do beautiful wood wheel replacement wood spoke work, but I have no names.. (3) my earliest engine parts catalog (1932) lists the Autocar 2 cyl and a 1922-31 4cyl with roller mains; none show under Buda, but that's not definitive as these catalogs are never complete. You could try Buda in Shreveport; the website seems to be for sale but Google still shows the firm address and phone 718-222-3348...if they've completely given up the ghost (Jim Sr passed on in 2012, Jim Jr was trying to keep the firm going) you could try John Paulsen (John Paulsen Marine) in Olympia 360-534-9879 evenings after 9PM Pacific time.. OH-OH--better Google him, I also have 9679. (Geez, that note's from 2010; how time flies!). I don't think he handles anything that old but seems to have extensive Buda knowledge.
  21. I poured gas into ones that's been sitting that long and fired them up, back when I had more enthusiasm than foresight...it's obvious the gods love you... That said, ATCA is a small site, not much traffic, but you need all the help you can get; ATHS and justoldtrucks are heavily into more modern stuff, but they're all good people (and free).. Another site is the Antq Auto/Trk forum on smokstak, also free... I thought there was an Autocar website as such, but Google just brought up waycool.com/autocar, a facebook page and a couple other club references; join them all; you never know where the advice/help you need will come from... Autocar produced such a blizzard of models I have very few listing in the early 20s, but it appears some Hs, including 27H, could originally have had either their "H" engine, 4" bore, or "Y", 41/4 bore...the only thing truck owners like more than comparing engines is swapping them, so you may or may not have the original. You'll need autocar people to ID it and find parts sources... I don't have any engine parts catalogs that go that far back to show the b/s of those two engines or whether they shared parts with other Autocar engines... Autocar was one of the premier makes, which id good as there were many built...it's not like you were trying to resurrect a .
  22. Interesting side point about Bell... Std Cat does just list 4cyls, but in looking up the Hs in my old catalogs find a 25 Perfect Circle ring catalog listing a Hs 11000 (6cyl) for a 1919 bell (no model #) as well as the 7000 4cyl for 1920-23 (no model #s)...a couple others agree with the Lyc and the 7000... Std Cat does refer to another Bell, 1917 NY, NY, but that supposedly had only a rotary of some kind in a couple prototypes, and the dates are a little off... That catalog also lists some Budas, apparently a confusion of the Bell car with an unrelated Bell truck that used Budas per Mroz... Std Cat also says, under Riess Royal 1921, that the "new" car was to have a HS 6 of 57 HP... Old replacement parts catalogs are, of course, weak reeds to rely on, and HP is a poor ID source for engines, HP being a function of how tightly the engine's wound up, among other factors...
  23. Concur is fuel restriction problem; "choke" was intended to enrich mixture for cold weather/cold engine starting, should not be needed at all when warmed up and running at operating temp.
  24. Bought a Greenbriar for a trip (Portland to El Paso area and back, me. wife and two small kids)...was really nice, would've kept it except wife was spooky about not having any crush metal ahead of us... Rear end seemed just a touch possibly unstable on 60-65MPH freeway curves; didn't think about rear stabilizers until after left, but don't know if vans suffered the rear wheel foldup the sedans did or was just my (remembering the foldups) imagination....
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