For Sale 1922 Paige 6-66 7 passenger sedan

[rallyrat]

1922 Paige 6-66 7 passenger sedan

Extensive nut and bolt restoration by L&N Olde Cars, including engine rebuild.

Running, ready for tours, cruising

Same family ownership since 1927

Excellent condition.

Asking $135,000, or best offer

Located in the Cleveland, Ohio area.

Ken

rallykov@sbcglobal.net

[John_S_in_Penna]

Ken, I say with all humility, are you SURE you have

checked the selling prices of comparable cars?

[alsancle]

Great car and great history!   I think direct comparables will be hard to find but unfortunately the restoration costs on most cars are never recouped.

[Grimy]

They are indeed great but overlooked cars, and are now accepted as Full Classics by the Classic Car Club of America (CCCA).  I have a "refurbished" (not "restored") 1922 6-66 Larchmont II 4-passenger phaeton.  More photos would be helpful in communicating the condition.  I post here primarily to bring this thread to the top for more attention.  That said, prices on these cars are soft.  I have no doubt that you have cubic dollars in the restoration but that doesn't necessarily mean that you can recoup those expenses.

 

There is no "Paige Club" per se, but the cars are accepted as predecessors in the Graham Paige Owners Club International (GOCI).  You might want to cross-post in the Graham and Paige section.

 

Best wishes for the sale.

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 10/17/2017 at 7:15 PM, alsancle said:

I think direct comparables will be hard to find ...

 

That may be the case, because cars of this era

aren't being collected as much, and there are very few new restorations.

(Is this Paige a new restoration, or an older restoration?)

 

However, there are lots of comparable makes:  for example,

a Buick or an Oldsmobile might be considered in assessing the

value of a more obscure make of car. 

[alsancle]

Not necessarily a good comparison as Buick and Olds are not accepted by the CCCA.

[Reo M]

Unfortunately for the person having spent all of the funds on a fine restoration, they will be doing well if they obtain $35k for the car.

From the general perspective of antique car lovers, the restoration helps ensure another piece of history will likely survive for a long time to come.

 

[Grimy]

36 minutes ago, Reo M said:

Unfortunately for the person having spent all of the funds on a fine restoration, they will be doing well if they obtain $35k for the car.

From the general perspective of antique car lovers, the restoration helps ensure another piece of history will likely survive for a long time to come.

Sad but true.  Nevertheless, since it appears to be a very fine restoration of a car now recognized by CCCA, I suggest advertising it in that organization.

[dl456]

Not intending to hi-jack this thread but what model Paige autos are recognized by 

the CCCA ?

Is this a new development?

Thanks,

Dennis

[Grimy]

42 minutes ago, dl456 said:

Not intending to hi-jack this thread but what model Paige autos are recognized by 

the CCCA ?

Is this a new development?

Thanks,

Dennis

http://classiccarclub.org/grand_classics/approved_classics_2016.html

 

A couple of years ago now they accepted 1917-27 large series Paige, and other accepted marques' models going back to 1915.  Actually, CCCA should take another look at Paige model designations:  the 6-66 became the 6-70 for 1923 and later years. 

[dl456]

Thanks George,

I wasn't aware of the inclusion of the larger series Paige.

They list Paige to 1927 but don't list the 6-70. Do you think this is a nomenclature error

or is meant to exclude the 6-70?

Thanks again,

Dennis

[Grimy]

I'm pretty sure this is a nomenclature error, Dennis, but checking with them on it is rather low on my gotta-do list.  The 131" wheelbase is the same thru 1925, then they dropped the long wheelbase to 125" (model 72, as I recall) for 1926.  You might want to ask via the CCCA website.

[rallyrat]

THANKS EVERYONE FOR THE REPLIES. 

THE ONLY COMPARABLE MODEL THAT I COULD FIND ANY SALES DATA ON, WAS A ‘22 6-66 SEDAN THAT SOLD AT CHRISTYS (LONDON) IN ‘78, FOR 68K.

I’M SELLING THIS CAR TO SETTLE AN ESTATE. 

VIRTUALLY NO INFO AVAILABLE. 

YES, IT WOULD BE NICE TO RECOUP RESTORATION COSTS. INCIDENTALLY, THIS RESTORATION WAS COMPLETED IN 2004, CAR HAS BEEN IN STORAGE SINCE. 

IT IS RUNNING, AND ALL LIGHTS AND BRAKES WORK. HAVEN’T HAD A CHANCE TO DRIVE BECAUSE OF WEATHER, MAYBE THIS WEEKEND. 

PRICE IS BEING REDUCED TO $87,500 OR OFFER.

 

THANKS AGAIN.

KEN

 

[StanleyRegister]

I'm guessing that the main reason to study comparables is if you want to sell it in a hurry.  In an estate situation like this, the car will clearly sell.  That will be because the seller has adjusted the asking price until it is correct.  It may just take longer to learn what that correct price is, if it turns out that the starting ask was pretty far away.

 

This is why I like the reverse auction.  Start high and subtract $1,000 per week, or so, until somebody can't stand it any more and has to grab it.  This approach does require a lot of visibility, though.

[Grimy]

Two things are necessary for the best price:  (1) Have it running, preferably with a video of same, after cleaning out old gasoline, and (2) multiple good, well-lit photos available, even if on a photo-storage website.

[John_S_in_Penna]

3 hours ago, StanleyRegister said:

I'm guessing that the main reason to study comparables is if you want to sell it in a hurry.  In an estate situation like this, the car will clearly sell... 

 

This is why I like the reverse auction.  Start high and subtract $1,000 per week...

 

I give different advice.

Studying comparable values is often done in appraisals--of houses or any item--for a good estimate of the value.

There's no guarantee that this car will sell, even at a price one might regard as fair,

     because regrettably, Paiges have a minuscule following, and there is small interest

     in cars of this time period as well.  Cars can go for years unsold if not priced properly,

     and in that time they must be driven or maintained, or their value will decline further.

And starting high, though a tactic that dealers may use, is, I think, counter-productive:

     The serious buyers know cars' values, and a fair price may elicit an offer or two.

     If a car is priced too high, the few potential buyers will tend to simply pass it by,

     just shaking their heads---

 

     

[Mark Gregory]

The price of this car has been reduced I think .

By around $50,000 

If you look at the ad on the HCCA

 

http://hcca.org/classifieds.php?cars

[StanleyRegister]

As of today, it's "$87,500 or best offer", at the top of the HCCA classifieds at the previous link.

[wayne sheldon]

I have been interested in Paige the marque since my dad bought one to be the great family project when I was fifteen years old. Unfortunately, he was better with ideas than he was with following through, and the car never got done. Before he died, it became mine. But with my family obligations, and the fact I had several other cars , both restored and not, I haven;t been able to get it done either. It sits, about half done, in the best garage space I have. Maybe one day I can actually begin to work on it seriously.

Still, because of that car, I have a fondness for Paige. Read almost everything I could in books and hobby magazines, talked with a dozen or more owners and drivers of the cars (including Grimy who I have followed on tours in the '15 Studebaker I used to have. I do like that Larchmont II four passenger phaeton. Beautiful car! And fast too.

I definitely believe that Paige is undervalued in both price and general consideration within the hobby. They have a very interesting history. And rare in the automotive manufacturing industry of those days, they lost money in only one year between 1913 and 1927. They achieved a ninth place standing for automobiles produced  (in the USA) in one year (I forget which year, I read this in an industry report many years ago, but it was mid '20s). They were an "assembled" car, as most were in those days other than the big five (Ford, GM, Chrysler/Dodge, Studebaker). Paige did their own designing, and most parts were made to their order (similar to many of the larger companies like Nash, Durant or Hupmobile). All in all, Paige and Jewett cars were fast, reliable, well styled, and an excellent buy for the dollar of the day.

 

Evaluating a Paige today and arriving at a fair market value is very difficult. They are better than many of the lesser known marques, yet lack the mystique and following held by such cars as Marmon or Rickenbacker. They are comparable with the Buicks, Nash, and Studebakers of the day. Part of the problem for them today is simply that people like to cluster together in groups. And they feel more comfortable thinking parts and information is a club-member call away.  Therefore, Nash, Buick, and Studebaker cars are more desirable to most people than a Paige would be. The CCCA acceptance is a big plus for the 6-66 line. Until the CCCA clarifies the other top-of-the-line models? I don't know about those. However, most people, putting out a bunch of money for a CCCA car, are still going to prefer Packards, Cadillacs, and Lincolns. Those that want and can afford more expensive fare have many exotic choices (although the 6-66 Daytona roadster is pretty exotic by any standards of the era).

 

That is one of the best and most beautiful Paige automobiles I have ever seen. I hope it finds a good home with a hobby-driven caretaker.  I wish I was in a position to be looking for something like that. Although, frankly, at its current price? I know of a couple Pierce Arrows for less that I would go after first.

[Grimy]

Perfect analysis and comments, Wayne, and thanks for mentioning my Larchmont II, which BTW is NOT for sale.  A couple of clarifications or expansions:

 

*These cars are "fast" in acceleration (331 cid Continental 6, 3.75 x 5) but mine runs out of string at 40 mph; the diffs are 4.55 to 4.75 even in open cars.  Accordingly, I have a 26% Mitchell overdrive on the shelf which I'll install "one of these days" not to go much faster than that (2 wheel brakes until 1925) but to reduce stress on the engine.

 

* The large series accepted by CCCA is shown as "All 6-55, 6-66 1916-1927" although the 6-66 (formerly 6-55) became the 6-70 beginning in 1923.  I bought the car long before CCCA accepted Paige, because it LIKE it very much.

 

* At least the 4-p phaetons like mine have Wilson (of Detroit) bodies with a separate body tag on the seat frame under the RF passenger seat cushion. 

 

* The only marque support is in the Graham-Paige Owners Club which includes Paige as an ancestor, but RARELY are there articles or tech support for Paiges.  I'm a member for 17 years principally for the roster of Paige owners as a networking tool.  Accordingly, the best Paige to buy is a restored one, or at least a complete one.  The subject car appears to be the best closed Paige I know of.

 

* Touring opportunities at 35-40 mph are not too plentiful.  Wayne and I are long term members of the Nickel Age Touring Club (NATC), a chapter of VMCCA based in the general SF Bay Area but with active members in SoCal and northern Nevada.  We accept nickel-trimmed vehicles of all marques, fast or slow, generally 1913-1928.  We do two four-day tours per year (in 2018, Sacramento River delta in the Spring and Truckee / Tahoe in early October).  Additionally, John Manifor of SoCal runs the Nickel Era Touring Registry of HCCA, and runs a five-day once a year (2017 was in the Murphys CA gold country, and 2018 will be in Sequim, WA).  Many HCCA Regional Groups accept cars thru somewhere in the 1920s for their LOCAL tours.  Perhaps someone can comment on touring opportunities elsewhere in the country.    

[rallyrat]

1922 PAIGE,

 

PRICE HAS BEEN REDUCED TO $81,500 OBO.

THANKS

[cxgvd]

Opportunities in the mid west include the Old Car Festival, a pre'33 event in the fall and the Gilmore pre '42 in May, both in Mich.  Also pre war weekend tours, various times and locales.  I nearly forgot the AACA Vintage Tour every odd numbered year.  Best of luck, Gary

[John_S_in_Penna]

Mr. Rallyrat, since Paiges aren't encountered all that often,

you might like to see another Paige sedan that was offered

here about a year ago.  Maybe you'd like to compare notes

with the owner, since he was in the Pittsburgh area and 

you're around Cleveland.  I believe his car sold eventually,

but he began at $18,000 and even then, it took a while:

 

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 10/22/2017 at 3:07 PM, Reo M said:

...they will be doing well if they obtain $35k for the car.

 

I see that, more than a year later, the asking price

is cut to $45,000 for this car.

 

Moving in the right direction!  For the car's sake, I hope

it eventually finds a new, caring owner who will drive and show it.

The seller began a new thread on our forum.

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

In an attempt to reduce confusion, I shall try to post a link to the new thread (same poster) showing a new lower price. Such a nice car should have a better chance at finding an appropriate new home.