JZRIV

1972 Centurion Convertible

Recommended Posts

That car is $20,000 away from being worth $6000. Buy it fix it drive it but dont restore it and you might be ok. Live with whatever rust is there and just clean everything else. If the motor is tired drive it until it gives up then dump it. How much is the best one in the world worth? $25,000? $30,000? Unusual color or not this car makes no sense unless your just going to use it mostly as is and are ok with the issues and dont care about fixing them. Otherwise its a money pit. Keep your expectations low and you will be all right. Wish for it to be a nice car and you will be constantly hurt by it. Id be insulted by a $1000 offer. Thats like going to a garage sale and asking if they will take 25 cents on something marked 50 cents just because you like to haggle not because you need to save money. The price is low enough that it doesnt make a difference in the long run. If it was $1000 people would say to offer $500. If you want the car give him something close to his asking price. It wont hurt you in the long run.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, billorn said:

That car is $20,000 away from being worth $6000. Buy it fix it drive it but dont restore it and you might be ok. Live with whatever rust is there and just clean everything else. If the motor is tired drive it until it gives up then dump it. How much is the best one in the world worth? $25,000? $30,000? Unusual color or not this car makes no sense unless your just going to use it mostly as is and are ok with the issues and dont care about fixing them. Otherwise its a money pit. Keep your expectations low and you will be all right. Wish for it to be a nice car and you will be constantly hurt by it. Id be insulted by a $1000 offer. Thats like going to a garage sale and asking if they will take 25 cents on something marked 50 cents just because you like to haggle not because you need to save money. The price is low enough that it doesnt make a difference in the long run. If it was $1000 people would say to offer $500. If you want the car give him something close to his asking price. It wont hurt you in the long run.

 

Word!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SBRMD said:

 

Word!

 

That car is $20,000 away from being worth $6000. Buy it fix it drive it but dont restore it and you might be ok. Live with whatever rust is there and just clean everything else. If the motor is tired drive it until it gives up then dump it. How much is the best one in the world worth? $25,000? $30,000? Unusual color or not this car makes no sense unless your just going to use it mostly as is and are ok with the issues and dont care about fixing them. Otherwise its a money pit. Keep your expectations low and you will be all right. Wish for it to be a nice car and you will be constantly hurt by it. Id be insulted by a $1000 offer. Thats like going to a garage sale and asking if they will take 25 cents on something marked 50 cents just because you like to haggle not because you need to save money. The price is low enough that it doesnt make a difference in the long run. If it was $1000 people would say to offer $500. If you want the car give him something close to his asking price. It wont hurt you in the long run.

 

LOL,  how many of our restorations do make sense?  90% of the cars sitting on a showfield have far more into them that what they are worth.  

 

Edited by Y-JobFan (see edit history)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Y-JobFan said:

 

That car is $20,000 away from being worth $6000. Buy it fix it drive it but dont restore it and you might be ok. Live with whatever rust is there and just clean everything else. If the motor is tired drive it until it gives up then dump it. How much is the best one in the world worth? $25,000? $30,000? Unusual color or not this car makes no sense unless your just going to use it mostly as is and are ok with the issues and dont care about fixing them. Otherwise its a money pit. Keep your expectations low and you will be all right. Wish for it to be a nice car and you will be constantly hurt by it. Id be insulted by a $1000 offer. Thats like going to a garage sale and asking if they will take 25 cents on something marked 50 cents just because you like to haggle not because you need to save money. The price is low enough that it doesnt make a difference in the long run. If it was $1000 people would say to offer $500. If you want the car give him something close to his asking price. It wont hurt you in the long run.

 

LOL,  how many of our restorations do make sense?  90% of the cars sitting on a showfield have far more into them that what they are worth.  

 

Yes...if it was only as an investment then half the old cars out there wouldn't exist anymore.  Look at it this way though... it's still a better investment than just about any new car!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 5:29 AM, 1965rivgs said:

The price seems great for a convertible (for other reasons also) but the catch is that the car is a convertible! I know prices vary by location and it has been a few years since I had a convertible top done, but the cost to have a quality top replacement has to be approaching the final cost of the whole car!

 

OTOH, Hydro-E-Lectric sells a top for this car for $305.  It could be a great opportunity to learn how to install a convertible top. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

 

OTOH, Hydro-E-Lectric sells a top for this car for $305.  It could be a great opportunity to learn how to install a convertible top. 

I would not want my first attempt at installing a new top to be on any 1971-76 GM full size.  Many seasoned upholsters refuse to do them as they are quite difficult.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Y-JobFan said:

 

That car is $20,000 away from being worth $6000. Buy it fix it drive it but dont restore it and you might be ok. Live with whatever rust is there and just clean everything else. If the motor is tired drive it until it gives up then dump it. How much is the best one in the world worth? $25,000? $30,000? Unusual color or not this car makes no sense unless your just going to use it mostly as is and are ok with the issues and dont care about fixing them. Otherwise its a money pit. Keep your expectations low and you will be all right. Wish for it to be a nice car and you will be constantly hurt by it. Id be insulted by a $1000 offer. Thats like going to a garage sale and asking if they will take 25 cents on something marked 50 cents just because you like to haggle not because you need to save money. The price is low enough that it doesnt make a difference in the long run. If it was $1000 people would say to offer $500. If you want the car give him something close to his asking price. It wont hurt you in the long run.

 

LOL,  how many of our restorations do make sense?  90% of the cars sitting on a showfield have far more into them that what they are worth.  

 

 

Then why haggle for price? Why worry about what it costs to buy? Why is $2000 too much? The hobby doesnt make sense but everyone wants to pinch pennys just the same. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Brad Conley said:

I would not want my first attempt at installing a new top to be on any 1971-76 GM full size.  Many seasoned upholsters refuse to do them as they are quite difficult.

Jump in the deep end or start in the kiddie pool.  Even if you make a hash of it, you're no worse off than when you started.

 

As pointed out earlier, this car (like 99% of all others) makes no sense financially. Might as well learn something while you're going broke.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Brad Conley said:

I would not want my first attempt at installing a new top to be on any 1971-76 GM full size.  Many seasoned upholsters refuse to do them as they are quite difficult.

 

Exactly, the scissor top is extremely complicated 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, KongaMan said:

 

OTOH, Hydro-E-Lectric sells a top for this car for $305.  It could be a great opportunity to learn how to install a convertible top. 

Go with the plastic rear window if you do.  These scissor tops have a tendency to bind up then collapse when lowering top, which can lead to shattered glass rear window.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, lancemb said:

Go with the plastic rear window if you do.  These scissor tops have a tendency to bind up then collapse when lowering top, which can lead to shattered glass rear window.

 

 

Have owned 6 GM's with scissor tops and have never had one break a rear window or even come close, if that is happening, then the top is not lubricated and adjusted properly.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had 13 GM's with scissor tops. About half were purchased with broken rear windows (or with replaced plastic windows). Most common reason for the broken windows were people stashing luggage, spare tires or packages on the rear forward shelf in the trunk (done while the top is up). Looks like a perfect storage shelf. Then the driver decides to put the top down. The back window lays into this storage area (and due to the obstruction the window does not rest as low as it should) then the rails come folding down on top of it. CRASH. The window is broken. GM does provide warning in the owners manual but there are no stickers in the trunk area. Another common cause is the removal of the two small lever action arms that pull the bottom of the window upward and rearward as the top goes down. Not sure why but many are removed and the glass is much more prone to binding on the belt molding area and breaking. I have known one example where the top irons were binding on one side, the top frame twisted sideways and the window exploded. Having replaced several tops the job is not that difficult if there is no need to adjust the frame structure. Check alignment very carefully before any replacing. If the side windows do not line up into the top or the doors are sagging or binding be very careful. The body manuals do not give much direction to adjust the frame (particularly the large "arms" of the scissor mechanism). I have had a vehicle where the top had been twisted due to lack of lubrication. I was never able to get it aligned after freeing up the joints (I am a novice). As was noted many trim shops will not even consider these cars. I could find none to attempt adjusting the frames. BUT if the frame is straight and you are at all familiar with how a convertible top is installed I say go for it. As always measure twice, (maybe even three times) cut once. Parts for these tops are readily available. It would be a fun driver. Ben

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting, never see that on the Eldo forums as an ongoing issue, didn't see it on the old Centurion forum either when it was active.  Windows breaking because of stuff being in the way, well welcome to convertible ownership if you don't follow directions, that is of no fault of a top.  It seems like even you allude to the fact that it's not usually an issue with the top but more human error when replacing, servicing and packing.  Most plastic windows on cars that originally had glass is simply a cheap way out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Y-JobFan said:

 

 

Have owned 6 GM's with scissor tops and have never had one break a rear window or even come close, if that is happening, then the top is not lubricated and adjusted properly.  

Well sure...it's not likely to happen if everything is in perfect working order.  That's kinda how it goes with everything.  But old convertible tops can get worn or out of adjustment, especially on a car that someone is buying on the cheap and perhaps not putting a lot of time and money into.

 

Glass certainly looks nicer too, I was just thinking along the lines of the suggestion that the car could be enjoyed without putting too much time and money into so as not to get too "upside down" in it if that's a concern. 

 

This happened on 2 of my dad's cars years ago, neither because of having stuff stored in the back.  Surely it's largely preventable with enough service, and careful lowering of the top, but my point is it's a risk with this top design that largely doesn't exist on most convertibles.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always feel that you should do it right the first time.  I looked at a beautiful Eldo a few years ago, the fellow had put a new top on it with plastic window, I walked away from the car because of it.  I knew I would never be happy with it and didn't want to replace an already new top (add to the expense).  That $300 or $400 he saved by going cheap cost him a sale. Putting a cheap top on this one now as a driver might be worthwhile, but what might it cost down the road in redoing it or trying to sell it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Y-JobFan said:

That $300 or $400 he saved by going cheap cost him a sale.

 

Not if someone else bought it.  And if they paid what you would have, "going cheap" netted the seller an extra $300 or $400.  In that scenario, the plastic window was a smart decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps with a glass window he would have spent an additional $400 but he could have probably sold it for an additional $600 more and pocketed the extra $200.  ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Perhaps with a glass window he would have spent an additional $400 but he could have probably sold it for an additional $600 more and pocketed the extra $200.  ?

 

Unclear if that's true.  I don't think you can assume that every potential buyer knows or cares about glass vs. plastic -- but you can assume that they all see an extra $600 on the price tag.  That might drive away more potential buyers than a glass window would attract.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having owned a couple of convertibles, I'd walk away from a plastic window every time.  My Riviera convertible had a glass window with the heated defroster lines across it.  Never once had a problem with it.  I replaced the top and paid extra for the glass window when I replaced it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, KongaMan said:

 

Unclear if that's true.  I don't think you can assume that every potential buyer knows or cares about glass vs. plastic -- but you can assume that they all see an extra $600 on the price tag.  That might drive away more potential buyers than a glass window would attract.

 

 

I guess it depends on the caliper of the car, on a driver condition vehicle for someone that doesn't really care, that might fly for some, , but when you are buying premium cars a plastic window isn't going to cut it in a car that should have glass.  The Eldorado I spoke of earlier sat for sale an additional 4 months and I know the reason it sat was because people buying top tier Eldo convertibles expect to be getting what they pay for. He was unwilling to negotiate a price reduction for his failure to do it right. Well, after sitting the 4 months, he ended up taking a hit on the car as winter approached.    When looking at a car and then negotiating, you try to negotiate a price based on issues you see wrong to substantiate a price where the car should actually be, a nice car with a plastic window would be a full new top cut in price in my book. I think this happens in many aspects of restorations, people cut corners to save a buck and it bites them in the end when they can't figure out why their car won't sell for the same price as cars done right

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a liner, or bladder (as some trim shops call it), that holds the rear window in place on these cars. The forward end attaches to the bow roughly above the back of the car's front seat. The rear attaches to the strip under the belt molding. The glass window is attached (thermal glued) to this bladder. It is completely under and separate from the top vinyl/canvas. This bladder/window "drape" can be purchased separately and can be installed with the main top vinyl remaining mostly in place. There are a few places where the main top has to be loosened by removing some attaching nails and the top does have to be operational (it is installed with the top partially down and then needs to be fitted/tightened with the top up). Adjusting takes a little patience (as well as moving the top up and down). Not sure what the cost of these liners with windows are but I would bet it would be a lot less that a complete top. Also a lot less work than a complete top replacement. Just putting this out there for information. I did have a trim shop replace one on my 74 Caprice. The car had a good back window but the liner was very worn and ugly to view from inside the car. The top itself was fairly nice. The shop replaced the liner and re-glued my original glass window into the new liner. Came out looking nice. (picture below - not of the top - just showing off my car) The scissor tops do have differences from "regular" convertible tops. 

1974 Caprice.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is a good point Ben and would be a viable option if they used a quality top , unfortunately when they go cheap they usually go cheap and buy a the cheapest top they can find then it's not worth spending the money to try to make it right 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since we've all gotten so far from the 1st post I thought I'd put the photo back up.  For $1k, I'd go get this and drive the f***'n wheels off it!!

1604594195_1972centurion1.jpg.205bb7b07cd945ab00ee641ebbd71177.jpg

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a question for those of you who own or have owned a convertible.  How many of yours have had a headliner in them?  My 84 Riviera did.  No bows are seen when the top is up.  It was the same burgundy color as the leather seats. Made for a nice sound barrier compared to others I've owned or ridden in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now