89 Buick Reatta Brake conversion from ABS to Vacuum

[Guest Ronbz455]

My dad bought a Buick Reatta with 132,00 miles on it, after we had Specmo repair the digital dash, and the right rear caliper wasn't working. Went through all the problems, broken bleeder, replace hoses, replace proportioning valve, rear calipers and now both don't work. But the power brake system is broken also. The motor runs but no power assist. I can pump the brake manually but no pressure to rear brakes. I told him I can convert it to vacuum power brakes. My question is when I do this will I be able to shut off all warnings, brake light, information display and ABS light by disconnecting the harness to the master cylinder?

Also will the booster fit in the original location of the abs power unit?

I seen a google search where d-a-n-i-e-l has done this. Are you ther Daniel? Fill me in cause he needs to take this car to Ohio and get it out of my hair! Thanks, Ron Butz.

[handmedownreatta]

use parts from a same year rivera.btw daniel was here today.

[Ronnie]

Welcome to the forum. Good luck with getting the information you will need to do the changeover to vacuum brakes.

[Guest Ronbz455]

The Zone shows a vacuum booster/master cylinder for the 89 Reatta as an assembly.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Did you bleed the rear brakes according to the proper procedure?

To bleed the rear brakes

A. Turn on the key and allow the system to pressurize

B. Have an assistant slightly depress the pedal and hold it.

C. Open each rear bleeder, one at a time, and hold open until clear fluid comes out. (The pump and motor will do the bleeding)

Close the bleeder with sufficient force but do not over-tighten.

If the pump is working and turns the red light off, you shouldn't have a problem getting pressure to the rear with all those new parts.

[Guest Ronbz455]

I have went through the power boost diagnoses and it says if the motor keeps running, like mine does, than there is a fault in the pump assembly if it's not filling up the accumulator then it needs replaced. Finding these parts is almost non existent and it will be better to convert it to a regular vacuum booster system. If I had time to disassemble the booster than I would probably find a bunch of corroded valves and who knows if I could find the pistons and orings to fix it so why not convert. Thats is unless the parts are out there somewhere.

[Guest Ronbz455]

I have went through the power boost diagnoses and it says if the motor keeps running, like mine does, than there is a fault in the pump assembly if it's not filling up the accumulator then it needs replaced. Finding these parts is almost non existent and it will be better to convert it to a regular vacuum booster system. If I had time to disassemble the booster than I would probably find a bunch of corroded valves and who knows if I could find the pistons and orings to fix it so why not convert. Thats is unless the parts are out there somewhere.

I used a power bleeder and I do have fluid to both rear calipers but when I manually pump the brake there is no pressure at the rear after replacing the pro valve, hoses and the calipers.

[Ronnie]

I used a power bleeder and I do have fluid to both rear calipers but when I manually pump the brake there is no pressure at the rear after replacing the pro valve, hoses and the calipers.

Mc_Reatta gave you good advice that you should take. Power bleeder will not work on the rear brakes. Pumping the pedal will not put pressure on the rear calipers without the pump running. Will the pump run? If so follow these instructions exactly and your brakes might start working.

How To Flush & Bleed Brakes - Reatta Owners Journal

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

My dad bought a Buick Reatta with 132,00 miles on it, after we had Specmo repair the digital dash, and the right rear caliper wasn't working. Went through all the problems, broken bleeder, replace hoses, replace proportioning valve, rear calipers and now both don't work. But the power brake system is broken also. The motor runs but no power assist. I can pump the brake manually but no pressure to rear brakes. I told him I can convert it to vacuum power brakes. My question is when I do this will I be able to shut off all warnings, brake light, information display and ABS light by disconnecting the harness to the master cylinder?

Also will the booster fit in the original location of the abs power unit?

I seen a google search where d-a-n-i-e-l has done this. Are you ther Daniel? Fill me in cause he needs to take this car to Ohio and get it out of my hair! Thanks, Ron Butz.

To go a non abs system the Riviera/Eldorado//Seville options all work. roughly 87 to 93 on varying models. The 89 Riv will pull up all compatible parts. I am not sure if this applies to non abs but if you go with a abs from the 91 vehicles you will have to weld an extension plate on the brake pedal (for the brake switch). As far as the ABS light, you will have to pull it or cover it. The red brake light can be used as be the brake fluid level sensor as it currently is. You said you wanted it out of your hair, if that means you to get rid of it, you may just want to place it for sale on the forum. Many people may be interested in it with the issue. Also the headache of the swap may not be worth the time and money that you will get out of it, and it may detract from people who are interested in it being original. The only reason I have my car set up the way it is, is because it was way too far gone when I found it.

[Guest Ronbz455]

My dad don't care about original. He has one now and he says if he plays with the brake pedal it will work. I talk to him tonight and he said see what it takes to convert it. I have no problem repairing the booster but I can't find parts and if I can is it worth it if he just wants the brakes to work? It looks like it has 4 mounting holes back ther so wouldn't the vacuum booster mount up to those existing holes?

[Barney Eaton]

Go to www.reatta.net and www.reattaowner.com and you will find plenty of information to diagnose the Teves ABS system.

Do a little reading and you will see another Reatta owner with brake problems that was solved with a new relay.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

You're finally in the right place to find to find how to diagnose your problem and find the parts you need.

Seems you have determined that the pump is not building pressure. A few easy checks can confirm that, and several vendors on the forum will fight for the chance to sell you a pump or pressure switch if that is what you need.

Accumulators are available thru the Reatta store on Ronnie's site if you need one of those too.

[Guest Ronbz455]

Ok the pump is running when you turn the key on, you can hear it and feel it if you put your hand on it but it is not building up pressure. So I would think instead of fixing that one piece to make it build pressure you should put a reman assembly on it because another piece might go bad later right?

[Barney Eaton]

One step at a time.

(1) the pump is running, that is good.

(1a) does it shut off?

When it shuts off and you touch the brake does it start again? If it does it is the accumulator.

If it doesn't shut off, it is the pressure switch.

The boost/master cylinder seldom goes bad. If you feel it is bad, there were a few other GM cars that had the unit as an option. All Bonneville SSEI had it standard, Cadillac Seville and Eldorado with the Touring package had it standard.

[Guest Ronbz455]

I will have to check it out Monday cause it's at my work. So how long does it run before it shuts off? Key on engine not running.

[William Rule]

For what this is worth: I have converted two Reattas from Teves ABS to vacuum boost brakes. Two years and 14,000 miles later I changed my driver back to the Teves system. Why? First----I like ABS. Second---- I feel the Teves system is superior. Take care of the Teves system and it will take care of you.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

The pumps have a pretty good track record, and new ones aren't available, so most just replace with a used one. I've seen some switch and pump assemblies at FLAPS and RockAuto, but they are extremely expensive.

There are two main reasons a running pump won't build pressure. Either it is starved for fluid because the supply line is clogged usually at a screen at the bottom of the reservoir, or the impeller is spinning on the shaft and not pushing fluid.

You can remove the supply hose from the pump and check the flow. Probably easiest to cut the hose off close and just remount if there is enough slack to allow for this.

This will of course turn messy if your not prepared to capture all the fluid you didn't remove from the reservoir as it hopefully spills out.

The reservoir end is dangerous to work on as the mounting nipple on the reservoir is very brittle and easy to break off and hell to repair, thus suggestion to work at pump end.

If flow is good, just get another pump from a vendor here and replace. A few have attempted to repair them, but parts aren't available and don't thing they had much success.

[Guest Ronbz455]

So should I take it off the car and put it in the vise and check those things or check those first before taking it off the car?

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

I'd do everything in the car unless it becomes too difficult due to corrosion or space limitations etc. Removing the MC just makes for lots of extra unnecessary work.

Normally the red light should go out in about 30 seconds, and the pump stop running in 45 to 50 seconds or so after key is turned to "run". If red light never goes out and its not caused by parking brake switch or fluid level switch, either the pressure switch is not working, or sufficient pressure is not being supplied.

If pressure is building, the speed of the pump should slow down over time as evidenced by the sound produced. If pressure isn't building, the sound of the pump won't change.

I'm basing my assumption you have a pump issue off of your belief that no pressure is building as evidenced by no fluid being supplied to the rear calipers when pedal is depressed. Other indications is a rock hard pedal even with pump running for a minute or more and no change in the level of the fluid in the reservoir as pump moves fluid into the accumulator after a drain down period.

Gold standard would be to mount a high pressure gauge (2500 psi min) into the accumulator socket and see what is going on if you have the capability.

Indications of switch failure is red light never coming on at start-up, fluid seeping into the connector socket of the switch, or brakes functioning normally, but pump and or light never goes out.

[Ronnie]

If the brakes have lost brake fluid at some point air could be trapped in the system preventing fluid from flowing into the pump. You might want to check that.

How To Purge Air From The Brake Pump - Reatta Owners Journal

[Guest crazytrain2]

I thought I'd share some pics (1) of a Reatta 3.8 with stock vacuum brake system (note the 2 port master cylinder) and (2) a couple of pics showing modification of brake lines to vacuum system swap.

I'm on the fence about swapping out the Teves system, it can be agravating as he__ at times and expensive but if repairable with some used parts then I'd say stick with it.

Just thought I'd share some pics in case you go the replace route. I will note though: I'd recommend a 2 port MC and "Tee" the fronts off of one port, other port for rear. The modified system (the 4 port MC) in the pics has a couple of issues I need to point out.

*The way the brake lines are routed if you blow a line whole system is lost YIKES!

*Equally important is highly ill advised use (application) of brass compression fittings NOT RECOMMENDED!!

Edited August 19, 2013 by crazytrain2
Emphasize Ill advised use of compression fittings (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

I can't tell from the photo but if those are standard brass ferrule compression fittings like they appear to be, I would not drive that car.

[Guest Ronbz455]

I went through chart D-4 and the only thing I didn't do is hook up a pressure gauge. I know it's not building pressure cause the pedal has no assist and the motor is runnig all the time. I pulled the return line and the fluid ran out of there fine for the return. There is no motion or decrease of fluid in the resivoir when the pump is running so it says to replace the pump/motor assembly. Anyone got a reman of a pump/motor? And the price will make me decide if I want to convert it. Does the vacuum booster of a Reatta from an 89 fit one that had ABS on the firewall?

Edited August 19, 2013 by Ronbz455 (see edit history)

[harry yarnell]

There is no vacuum booster on any Reatta.

[Ronnie]

There is no vacuum booster on any Reatta.

With the exception of the 1991 model.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Anyone got a reman of a pump/motor? And the price will make me decide if I want to convert it.

No one seems to be chomping at the bit to offer you a pump. Doubt you will find a remanufactured one but I'm surprised no one has offered a tested used one yet.

You might try posting on the Buy/Sell subforum here. There is a Teves unit for an 89 on ebay sans accumulator for a good price right now.

There's a very good chance you will need an accumulator too, but you really won't know until your pump is building pressure and you can test it. But those are best to get new via the Reatta store on Ronnie's site.

[DAVES89]

I have a working pump/motor. I was just waiting for the parts guys to step up to sell you one. I can be reached at lemke1044@aol.com

[Guest Ronbz455]

That's wild. The zone shows a booster and master cylinder combo for an 89 Reatta. Also I took the line and the accumulator loose today and ran the pump and no fluid. So Ronnie do you have a pump?

[Ronnie]

That's wild. The zone shows a booster and master cylinder combo for an 89 Reatta. Also I took the line and the accumulator loose today and ran the pump and no fluid. So Ronnie do you have a pump?

New pumps with a new pressure switch installed are available in The Reatta Store. Edited August 21, 2013 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[Guest Ronbz455]

I was hoping cheaper than that. The other guy said he had one so I'm emailing him to see what he's got. I seen that used on on ebay for 250 but I can't be for sure he actually tested it to be working on a wrecked car. Plus would not know how long it will be before it goes out.

[Ronnie]

You won't beat that price on a new one. I can recommend Dave as a good guy to buy from. He has provided me with several used parts and I was very happy with his prices and service.

[Guest Ronbz455]

Is that the guy with the lemke address?

[Ronnie]

Is that the guy with the lemke address?

Yes

[Guest Ronbz455]

My dad has a wrecked one at his house and he said the brakes worked on it so he might take that one off and send it to me. Is there any bolts behind that pump to get it off there? I have him on the phone right now.

[DAVES89]

There is one bolt that goes sideways through the pump, one electrical connector and one hose and two brake lines.

[Guest Ronbz455]

Ok he's going to check it out tomorrow and decide what to do. He might send me that pump, than after I put it on than he will drive it home to Ohio and then put the body parts on the wrecked one. I told him that the radio doesn't put out any sound and he would have to leave that radio in there cause it's got the A/C and the information all in one screen. He said his 90 was seperate and has an aftermarket radio in it. And his wrecked one is a 90. Thanks for all the help and I will get back with an update maybe tomorrow. He's starting to make my head spin but he's my DAD!

[padgett]

This is degenerasting into something more suited for buy-sell than the technical forum. Offers should use PMs though It would be appropriate for the original poster to note that he has the needed parts.

That said, the 1979 Pontiac Trans Am with 4whl disk brakes used two front lines and a single rear line like the Teves. OTOH if the rear ports of a 4 port system are siamesed there should be no issue if one port is blocked and the other used for a single rear line. Note: I have not tried this but theoretically it should work. YMMV.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Ok he's going to check it out tomorrow and decide what to do. He might send me that pump, than after I put it on than he will drive it home to Ohio and then put the body parts on the wrecked one.

He's going about this a**backwards. He needs to take the parts off the 90 and put them on the 89!

BTW, The CRT is just a user interface to control all the functions. The radio module itself resides in the center console to the left and rear of the shift lever.

[Guest moldymac]

FWIW, I had a problem getting any pressure from my 88 when I got it. I tried running it without the accumulator attached and no fluid came out. What ended up working was with the accumulator off, I unbolted the pump assembly and with the key on, tipped it upside down a few times until it started pumping fluid out of the port for the accumulator. I bolted it back up with the accumulator installed and my brakes worked.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

FWIW, I had a problem getting any pressure from my 88 when I got it. I tried running it without the accumulator attached and no fluid came out. What ended up working was with the accumulator off, I unbolted the pump assembly and with the key on, tipped it upside down a few times until it started pumping fluid out of the port for the accumulator. I bolted it back up with the accumulator installed and my brakes worked.

The pump should gravity prime but may not always as experienced above if all fluid was lost.

A power bleeder pressurizing the reservoir should also force fluid into the pump impeller cavity to facilitate the priming if available.