Breaker Points vs Solid State

I am considering going solid state in place of the conventional points in Goldie. Pros n Cons anyone?

Mike

This covers the pros: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/ignition_coil_tech/

The cons - if we ever get hit with an emp attack you won't be one of the few guys still out driving. Your electrical system won't be original anymore.

I converted mine with a pertronix ignitor 2 paired with a flame thrower 2 coil. It's a 45,000 volt system and more than enough for what i'm doing with mine. The conversion took all of about 30 minutes for me.

There have been past topics with in depth discussion. Bottom line is some have had great luck and some haven't so much. Main issue with Pertronix is if it fails out on the road as any electronic device can you are SOL unless you buy a spare. Points are simple, cheap, and easy to carry a spare set and change anywhere. As far as performance you really won't see a difference until you start adding other performance enhancing mods.

Some will say better fuel mileage and performance after converting but too many other variables such as condition of points and engine tune prior to changing over etc, and without a more scientific study, its left wide open for debate.

I personally like points in the interest of simplicity considering low mileage typically put on classics. If I was driving an old car daily or say 7-10k miles per year I'd convert to electronic ignition.

As far as performance you really won't see a difference until you start adding other performance enhancing mods.

I don't agree with the sentence above - I've converted to Pertronix 1 (now 2) plus a 45,000-watt Pertronix coil in every classic car I've owned in recent years, even before filling up for the first time. To me the difference was immediately apparent and with no mods from stock - smoother running, starting, cleaner plugs, exhaust, etc. Yes, one may be SOL if the unit fails but from what I read, if properly installed that's a really low probability. And if it does, I have AAA Plus anyway!

Did someone just call HEI ignition out for reliability...lol. The main selling point for just about anything new compared to old stuff in electronics is reliability.Sure, you can change points out on the road, but how many here have had a hei setup crap out driving down the road? I would put a higher chance on internal engine problems by far.

Another selling point is the ability to change the dwell depending on the rpm, which you can't with a points system. 45k volts instead of 15-30k. Hotter spark, cleaner burning. Most people i have talked to noticed a marked improvement from this one simple change. I have no baseline myself to compare it to as i changed mine before i even attempted to drive it on the road.

As to mechanical know-how and how long it took, if you can change spark plugs you can make this change. I did mine without moving anything but the the distributor cap. I fished wires in through the bottom. The hardest part was installing the new grommet if that tells you anything.

I don't agree with the sentence above - I've converted to Pertronix 1 (now 2) plus a 45,000-watt Pertronix coil in every classic car I've owned in recent years, even before filling up for the first time. To me the difference was immediately apparent and with no mods from stock - smoother running, starting, cleaner plugs, exhaust, etc. Yes, one may be SOL if the unit fails but from what I read, if properly installed that's a really low probability. And if it does, I have AAA Plus anyway!

According to The Ghost car with a electronic it fires up with enthusiasm, runs like a bat out of heel, or its just a evil haunted bastage.

Did someone just call HEI ignition out for reliability...lol. The main selling point for just about anything new compared to old stuff in electronics is reliability.Sure, you can change points out on the road, but how many here have had a hei setup crap out driving down the road? I would put a higher chance on internal engine problems by far.

Another selling point is the ability to change the dwell depending on the rpm, which you can't with a points system. 45k volts instead of 15-30k. Hotter spark, cleaner burning. Most people i have talked to noticed a marked improvement from this one simple change. I have no baseline myself to compare it to as i changed mine before i even attempted to drive it on the road.

As to mechanical know-how and how long it took, if you can change spark plugs you can make this change. I did mine without moving anything but the the distributor cap. I fished wires in through the bottom. The hardest part was installing the new grommet if that tells you anything.

So easy a idiot can do it? I am in!

We sell Pertronix and we use them in several classic cars, tractors and a fork lift. They all run better than with the points.

As a Pertronix warehouse distributor, I get very few back for warranty.

And if they ever do fail on the road, we keep the original points setup in the glove box in a bag. No need to buy a second unit.

hth

Jeff @ CARS, inc.

I am considering going solid state in place of the conventional points in Goldie. Pros n Cons anyone?

Mike

Installed in my '50 straight eight. No problems.

Ben

Jeez - I should have known better than to respond to this topic as it is a very controversial one but I'll dig my hole deeper. I based my answer on 35+ years of personal experience with points. Just one example, I ran points in my 67 GS for 17 years and don't think I ever replaced them or if I did it was just for general preventive maintenance. I always carried a spare set but never used them. Probably around 15,000 miles total. The car always started flawlessly, ran like a champ and got 16 MPG on trips to various national meets. With that type of experience, I failed to have any justification to go electronic but at the same time understand reasons why others want to convert. I know two people personally who were left stranded with Pertronix. I understand these failures may be rare and I admittedly overreact to it but when its you thats broke down, it doesn't matter how rare or at least thats my narrow minded perspective.

I think one (of several) variables that cause some folks to realize a positive seat-of-the-pants difference when going to electronic is the condition of the distributor bushings and wear on the lobe peaks. Electronic offers and advantage allowing a greater margin for wear without sacrificing performance where points would suffer. I will guess most folks converting would never look deep enough into their complete ignition system to know if they had deficiencies in this area. If someone converts and has distributor wear, all they know is they converted and the car runs better so it would be logical to think its 100% due to the electronic ignition itself....and it is sort of, though indirectly.

I installed my first set of points at age 10 on an old Bronco. Nowadays, I get a sense of pride, nostalgia and amusement being able to set points properly as these days few people have any idea where to start!

George Ohm and I had coffee at Tim Horton's the other night and he mentioned his law hasn't changed. The secondary circuit will only put out enough voltage to overcome the total resistance. We figured the reliability issue was more holistic. The reliability of the car is directly proportional to the skills of the mechanic.

My preference is to pull the distributor out of the car and change points on the bench:

Then you get to check the vacuum advance, centrifugal advance, breaker plate bearings, ground and lubrication pad. You can check the primary lead condition and seal; all that stuff is in my paradigm and keeps me happy.

Not only can one get a sense of pride from doing what others think are superfluous jobs, it is great to fix Lucas electric problems by directly applying Ohm's Law.

Now there are two opinions that will be taken as backward. Just watch this clip and substitute pistol and rife for electronics and points:

Bernie

We need to be careful regarding comparisons because there are several considerations with the aforementioned "conversions".

If one simply installs a Pertronix points eliminator there will be no change in ignition system voltage. The Pertronix is simply a conversion of the mechanical points to an "electronic" switch which consists of magnets and a pickup.

Only when one adds a different coil, which is typical, does one see an increase in system voltage.

So, the question of comparison becomes "IF ONE DOES NOT CHANGE TO A HIGH OUTPUT COIL, is there a difference in performance between points and the Pertronix?". The answer is no. One could argue that the magnet/pickup system is more accurate, especially at high RPM, but that argument is race car stuff, not applicable here, especially for a Nailhead or any lightly used and pampered old car.

We also must be careful using the term HEI. I know what the acronym stands for from a technical perspective but in "shop talk" it generally refers to the pointless system GM started using in the mid-seventies. That is a different animal than a Pertronix with an external coil.

In terms of reliability, GIVEN THE MILES ACCUMULATED AND CONDITIONS WHILE IN USE, it is hard to compare a points system which has for years been used in a regularly utilized work/family car and a Pertronix system in a collector car. Again, totally different circumstances, how can one compare?

I have experience which I feel is an apples for apples comparison. Three decades ago, employed as a fleet mechanic, we converted our fleet from points to a product which was called "Perlux" at that time. (Our fleet was "long in the tooth"). Same basic product as Pertronix, I AM ASSUMING. This part of the fleet consisted of 250 delivery vehicles running 12 hours a day, 5 days a week, starting and stopping an average of 100 to 150 times a day...think UPS. We saw no difference in reliability when comparing points and the Perlux conversion....the points would burn, the Perlux would melt down, etc...just my 2 cents,

Tom Mooney

You enjoy setting and replacing points? I don't. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it is enjoyable. I have plenty of other things to fiddle with beyond the ignition. We aren't arguing superior technology surpassed by cheaper, easier to produce wal-mart crap. We are talking about a technology advancing. Maybe it isn't a huge advancement for your particular application. For someone that drives theirs daily it would likely mean more.

So are you saying the upgrades required as much maintenance as the points system? If that is true it could be based on a few things. Many times when changing technologies the next step isn't fully developed, but more of a half step. For an example see the change from analog to digital phones. Analog signals were better in a optimal utilization. a sector could be tuned perfectly, power adjusted, radios in top shape and you would never see that quality of signal in the digital equivalent. I liken this to comparing tubes with solid state technology. The analog couldn't carry near as many users and just couldn't go where the digital finally went with data rates and other stats. Now with digital in place for 15 years we don't see the quality issues we saw upon initial release. Those holes were patched so to speak. I'm not taking your experience and throwing it under the bus, but i am wondering if your fleet experience was time or product sensitive. I know that probably wouldn't be the first or last time a product was changed that wasn't a huge hit right? From my experience in fleet it was more a question of $$$ than reliability, especially in today's world. The fleet manager wanted to show he was saving the company x amount of dollars right now, not 2 years down the road, so that usually ended up with who was cheaper. This isn't to say quality wasn't even a factor, but i would be lying if the consensus was that it was a major factor in the consideration. I don't know if it ran like that at your shop, but just a thought.

I'm not in a position to put this to the test, but i suppose i can at some point. Even if everything is relatively close in driveability, i am leaning towards the pertronix just for the maintenance-free aspect. I'm pretty sure the tune-up schedule for plugs, points,etc. was far fewer miles in '64 than it was after GM made the switch to HEI. It was just a step in the right direction in my opinion. I will also be adding roller rockers, fuel injection, and opening up the exhaust as much as possible...so perhaps that is why keeping the points is not a big deal to me.

Both of my cars carry a set of points in the glovebox :-)

I still have points in some of my cars and Pertronix in others installed by previous owners. No problem with either. Pertronix ignitions are hit or miss from people I have spoken to. The concensus is that the Pertronix use a magnetic trigger which has a higher failure rate compared to an optical trigger.

Two classic car mechanics I know only use Crane Fireball electronic ignition modules which have optical triggers. They won't install Pertronix anymore.

Link below. The box shown can be easily hidden.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-700-0001?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KEQjwlv6dBRDC7rGfrvidmJgBEiQAjd3hMNa-ie-OG771T0m3ddbShzPAd3zbO9mMP-WeKFE-ZIgaAsUF8P8HAQ

I also have a mix of points and various 'electronic'. Seems to me there are/were several generations of the Pertronix. I recall installing a couple years ago that were magnet triggered and the distributers needed end play to be pretty correct otherwise the magnets could get 'scrubbed off'. Speaking of Lucas-the wife's old MG finally got the Crane unit a couple years ago-the 'prince of darkness' took many years to do his thing with her electrics. Dan Mpls. Mn.

I've had the Pertronix Ignitor III system in my '67 for the last 4 years, and it works like a charm. I'm still using the original distributor with a set of blue Crane springs in the weights. Zero problems.

The older Pertronix I and II systems for Delco distributors had that magnet ring under the rotor which kept scrubbing the pickup and making the magnets fall out...no good. The new version III models use a reluctor sensor, and have no magnet ring or other moving parts...much more reliable. If my distributor wears out, I have a brand-new OEM unit ready to drop in with the Ignitor III system already installed. Drop it in, connect 2 wires to coil, and hook up the spark wires. All done.