Shop Rat Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Do you by chance have a spare computer mouse pad lying around? If so they make a great kneeling pad for you while you check out that chassis. The neoprene ones are the best. They are flexible enough to roll up and fit into a back pocket when not in use, they keep your knee (remember you're only supposed to use one knee to look professional <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />) dry when it has rained and cool when the sun is out. One guy I judged with had a blistered knee after judging in shorts on a newly blacktopped lot in Greenville in the summer. Lots of judges in the past have used their clipboard as a surface to kneel on. The down side to that is that the score sheet clipped to it is now exposed for a sharp-eyed owner or friend of the owner to read if you forget to turn it over. So, with show season upon us, does anyone else have any helpful judging hints to share? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I use a clipboard like they use in hospitals and nursing homes. They work nice for shows because you put your worksheet in it, then close it. Nobody can see the sheet. You can use it to kneel on. Stand back up, step away from the car, open it and fill it out. If it is nice out open it landscape style, and it helps to block your writing. If raining, open it portiat style and you have a "roof" over your nice, dry sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I use an aluminum clipboard that closes. The only time I open the clipboard is to mark on the sheet, and then close the clipboard back up. As in the case of David, it keeps the sheet out of view of the vehicle owners, and if it rains, my paperwork stays dry. $15 well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 I have a frosted plastic one like that but of course it could not be used for kneeling on. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />Where would be a good place to look for the kind you and David have? I have never seen on in the local office supply places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 If I decide to use one, I can just take my citation book out of the one that I bought in 1980.You should find it at most any office supply place. I did a quick search at the Office Max website for "forms holder" and found it there.Saunders Redi-Rite Form HolderAluminum Form HolderItem # 04014747, Style # SAU11017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Thanks MC. We have an Office Max but I just never spotted one of the aluminum holders there. I will check the next time we head out that way. It sounds like a good investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Another place is Galls. Galls sells law enforcement, EMS, and firefighter supplies. Their website is www.galls.com. They run a little more there, but they definately have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John W. Harvey Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 ("remember you're only supposed to use one knee to look professional") <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> [color:"blue"] In the AACA, you are permitted one or two knees. Unless you are "proposing" to the automobile owner <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />, I'm not certain either looks more "professional".John <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 John, as for the one or two knee deal, personally either looks "professional". As we get older, it's the getting back up from either position that doesn't look "professional". <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 Yeah, gives a whole new meaning to team members helping each other....up. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John W. Harvey Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 [color:"blue"]I think I overheard a couple chassis judges ask the vehicle owner; "Is there anything you would like done while I'm down here?" <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Yeah but regardless of your age, you still feel it if you're judging a big class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 I think I have heard the same comment. And more than one has suggested bringing a creeper with ropes to just pull them under the line of cars. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Nice idea, but you have to watch out for those low hanging exhaust systems. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Also, some judges have the problem I'm starting to encounter, where round is not the shape you need to be in for "tow judging". <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 You better find some 2" midgets for sliding under some of thouse sport cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Or how about one of the R/C robots like the police use? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Cullen Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 How about a mirror on a stick like the customs people sometimes use at the border? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 How about a pit like what the older garages use to have. The chassis judge gets down in the pit and a car drives through real slow. The only bad thing about the concept is for the tall guy having to duck as the car goes over, and for the short guy who might have trouble getting out of the hole after the class has been judged.... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted March 8, 2007 Author Share Posted March 8, 2007 Or a "chassis cam" like they had at the Barrett-Jackson auction. That was really cool. Judges could sit under a big umbrella with a cool drink and watch on a monitor as the cars do a slow roll by. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 That's the best suggestion yet!! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Now where's my good ole Mountain Dew!? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 In North Carolina???Still in the still <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 And I think we shouldnt have to judge chassis in class 25 (sports cars). They are too close to the ground. Tried that once and ended up with sore knees and a stiff neck. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 Then have pity for our friend Rodger, he ended up judging <span style="font-style: italic"> [color:"red"] Red Bugs </span> one time. How does one judge chassis on those cute little cars? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Terry, I got stuck judging sports cars one year. Did have the best conditions to do that in. It was i believe Carilse several years ago, at any rate, the show field was in the grass and the grass was touching the chassis!! What I could see through the tire tracks looked good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boettger Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Susan, <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Remember that it is NOT ACCEPTABLE to pick up one end of a Red Bug to look at the chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember that it is NOT ACCEPTABLE to pick up one end of a Red Bug to look at the chassis</div></div> That's why my mother in-law was banned from judging. She was doing the same thing with the Buicks <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Susan, <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Remember that it is NOT ACCEPTABLE to pick up one end of a Red Bug to look at the chassis. </div></div>Is it okay to have the engine judge help by lifting the other end and just flipping it over? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's why my mother in-law was banned from judging. She was doing the same thing with the Buicks <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> </div></div>Bet you're nice to your mother-in-law. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 When I'm sleeping <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 **snicker** <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl B. Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 If she can flip Buicks, he'd better be nice to her ALL of the time!!!!!!! B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57plymouth Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ex98thdrill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use an aluminum clipboard that closes. The only time I open the clipboard is to mark on the sheet, and then close the clipboard back up. As in the case of David, it keeps the sheet out of view of the vehicle owners, and if it rains, my paperwork stays dry. $15 well spent. </div></div>Am I understanding this thread right that the judges don't discuss the car with the owner? If not, what is the point of judging? A points sheet doesn't tell you anything but you lost points. They don't tell you what you lost points for. I would only want my car judged to know what I need to fix to be more correct. If the judge won't talk to me, what is the point of being judged at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 57 Plymouth, It is a little difficult to explain the total judging system in a few short sentences, but....If you don't get the award that you are competing for, you can request information on what prevented you from receiving the award. You are then given a judging sheet with the areas of concern highlighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57plymouth Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 But can you talk to a judge and ask him questions while he is at your car? I don't care about the score. I want to know what needs to be fixed.Is the same arrogant snotty attitude as at the NCRS used by all judges is the real question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I don't know anything about NCRS but I don't think I would describe the average AACA judge with the term "arrogant or snotty attitude". The system is designed to allow for the judging to be conducted in a professional manner. This does not allow for lengthy conversations or debates with the owners. The Judging Team Captain should greet the car owner and should ask the owner for documentation on any questionable item before the team would deduct significant points. Judging is not a class in restoration, or a time for debate. The system is designed to fairly evaluate cars and provide appropriate recognition for cars based on the condition of the car within the rules contained in the judging manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57plymouth Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 So the real answer is that the owner won't learn anything from the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 That is not my opinion, but it does not sound like I can explain it to you in a written format. Why don't you attend an AACA show as a spectator and see what you think of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted October 15, 2007 Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MCHinson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is not my opinion, but it does not sound like I can explain it to you in a written format. Why don't you attend an AACA show as a spectator and see what you think of it? </div></div>Better still, go to a Judging School and a CJE of your choice at a show nearby. Learn what we do from the inside out, and why it is done this way.Judging teams are instructed that ten minutes per car, which amounts to a total of forty minutes with four team members, should be sufficent to properly judge a car. We honestly don't have time to go over with owners what they need to do to get better scores. Most owners know what is wrong, if anything with their cars. We hear them admit it all the time.If you aren't sure about something with a car you don't have much knowledge of, check with the AACA Library and Research Center for information. I was just in Hershey. I was a Team Captain. I was verifying what cars had arrived for our class when a man walked up and started asking me questions about how the cars are judged. It was VERY clear, very quickly, to me that he had an ax to grind. I don't know why, he didn't say. I answered his questions as politely as I could. I have no idea what might have happened to him at a show somewhere. Maybe not even one of our shows. But he wanted to take it out on me. Sorry, not happening. I excused myself to go check in a car that had just arrived.It really is the best thing, if you don't get an award you were going after, to ask for a copy of the judging form with the areas where deductions were taken highlighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_buick5563 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Hey 57,I have never had my car judged at an AACA event, but I got my senior award (393 out of 400 points) at a Buick National. The Buick judges are specifically told NOT to talk to the owner. The only judge who is allowed to talk to the owner is the chief judge, who will only ask you to open the doors or ask for documentation. Like I said, I don't know what the AACA rules are. The reason MY 55 scored so highly is that my mentor in the hobby ( a semi retired dude with two senior cars) helped me with my restoration. If you are serious about actually competing in national level shows, I would strongly suggest that you find somebody who has been through the process of restoring a car to a high level and making friends with him/ her. The judging sheets are helpful, but you need to have a knowledgable person go over them with you. For example, in the Buick club, a major deduction is having your car painted with the fenders on. Body color paint on attachment bolts is a big no-no, cuz it didn't come from the factory that way. The fine details make the difference between a concours show car and a nice driver. (And it doesn't cost any more.) Make sure your car has the right hose clamps, hell, make sure you don't have a ribbed radiator or red heater hose (if yer car didn't come that way). Get your car judged once. Worry about the nitty gritty instead of orange peel paint jobs. I personally am much more inclined to "dismiss" a car with a non factory (Edelbrock) air cleaner than some wavy chrome or even unmatching panels gaps.Stop being accusatory. These folks are here to help. If you want to be feisty, go on Geraldo, if you want to learn, ASK. (Forgive me people...PLEASE)Old people want to help YOU.Have fun,Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buick5563</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These folks are here to help.</div></div>We really are here to help. We volunteer to do this. We spend a lot of time and money to do this. Some of us show cars as well as judge which is no small task to do both....if you want to learn, ASK.</div></div>Amen. All of us learned what we know from someone that will willing to take the time to teach us. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(Forgive me people...PLEASE)</div></div>Forgive you for what? Yours is a wonderful post.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Old people want to help YOU.</div></div>Yeah, while we still can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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