F14CRAZY

Supercharging (this time, it's real)

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Spent the evening on it some more. Reinstalled plugs, new wires, injectors, fuel rail, belt

I did dump the oil and filter last week or whatever, but don't have any in it yet. But don't worry grin.gif. I've got a fresh PF52 and 5-30 standing by. I'm going to change it a couple times before filling with Mobil 1 to get any remaining coolant out.

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What I would do is fill this engine up with some conventional oil to start out and make sure everything is working great / no leaks. After you are satisfied nothing is wrong, I would change the oil and filter again. No reason to waste expensive Mobil 1 to find out you still have a problem. Besides, I always like to "flush" the engine after it has been open (intake manifold removed).

-ryan

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Agree with Ryan with one addition - first pass use 5w or 10w-30 with one quart of ATF (super detergent and somewhat coolant soluable. Run for 1/2 hour at idle, and change to your regular oil. Change filter each time.

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I got it all put together properly, but it won't start. We're at the same thing as before; sputters but won't take off.

Could my MAF or IAC be bad and cause this? Is the MAF used in the startup process? Would any of these keep ir from running? I've got nearly new plugs and a fresh set of wires. It's set to go, but something keeping it from running.

Went under and checked the Crankshaft PS, and that hasn't had any rubbing or damage.

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Back to basics in the FSM, cranks but won't run;

Crank Sensor I believe gives the initial trigger signal to the ECM to give the injectors a prime shot. A test lite off one injector will show whether the injectors are being signalled as you crank. The Ignition Module has been known to fail as well as the ECM fail in this sort of mode.

Humor me, pull the Harmonic Balancer off and see if the key is there. While you've got it off compare it very closely with the stock 3.8L pulley. Make a template perhaps to transfer the interrupter slot layout compared with the orientation of the keyway from one pulley to the other. I'm convinced this could be the problem.

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sc41.jpg

This gasket fit is so bad I have got to think it is a source of your problem.

The DL9 starts to look more and more attractive. my 2cts

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The MAF shouldn't matter to start up and you can disconnect it if desired. It will run without it, one way of sorting out a bad sensor. If it is disconnected, the bad signal is elminated and it runs in a default mode. I don't believe it should have any effect on starting. The IAC could have an effect but you can counter that by applying a little throttle when starting, not much is needed, just enough to mimic the IAC opening. Fuel and spark are all that is needed to run, but the crank sensor will have an effect on both. If something is wrong there, it won't spark or turn on the fuel system. The odd thing is it ran before. Maybe not correctly, but it started and ran. It does act like somehing has moved? If it is getting ignition, an inductive timing light should flash on any old plug wire, although the polarity is different from one side of the engine to the other, may have to flip over the inductive pickup. Each plug should fire once per revolution and if aimed at the balancer, it should illuminate the same spot on each flash, maybe tell if it is slipping, or remove the darn thing as Greg suggests.

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Agree with Greg and am still bothered by the idea of a taper fit balancer on a slip fit crank - will not mate properly with the woodruff key and any wobble will take the crank sensor out. Pull and take a careful look.

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I did inspect the CPS and it looks good, but I will pull the balancer if I get a chance tomorrow.

Did try doing it with a little gas, so IAC is ruled out.

WIllren (like 25k posts shocked.gif) at the Bonneville club posted photos of his gasket, and it appears the same as mine. Kind of weird looking, I agree. Advance and the GM dealer both gave me the same thing.

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Can the engine idle with the S/C belt removed? if this could work, I suppose I could remove the L67 sensor and balancer, and put the LN3's back, which would be a good test to see if everything else is working.

I'll try to rent a balancer puller later, at any rate, to get the L67 balancer off

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Ok, was wondering about that. Heard it mentioned on other S/C cars...removing the belt on road trips or something.

Thank you. Will see about a puller later. Guess it's best to get at it from the bottom

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In a word, "No"

The Blower if not turning will completely block intake airflow. </div></div>

Not true. I have started many 3800 Series II SC engines that had the SC belt removed. The SC will turn by itself (because of airflow) and the engine will start and run normally (with less power of course) without the SC belt present.

I would recommend a very small shot of starting fluid to see if it will run off of that. BUT you need to be VERY CAREFUL with this stuff. A little bit should do the trick. If not, the problem is probably not fuel related.

Of course a check of the basics will tell you what is and what is not working:

-Spark (check by pulling all plug wires from coil pack and cranking)

-Firing order / plug wire routing

-Make sure spark plugs are not fouled / wet

-Fuel Pressure

-Fuel injector pulse (pull the fuel rail up out of the engine but leave it connected and crank the engine over and see if the ECM is commanding fuel injector firing)

-Compression test

If everything tests good (fuel, spark), then there is a possibility your timing chain might have jumped on you.

-ryan

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Ryan: does that mean I could try running the engine with the LN3 balancer and sensor?

Did try a tiny bit of ether but didn't really make a difference (we have a lot of it for the diesels)

Will pull the plug wires and check for spark on all cylinders, but there obvious is some amount of spark cuz it sputters

Fuel pressure remains good

Will look into pulling out the injectors and checking for a pulse (pun not intended)

Kind of did a compression test when I applied pressured to each cylinder. At least was able to know that pistons didn't have holes blown in them and that valves were sealing.

I don't think the timing chain came off since turning the balancer opened and closed the valves in my head gasket test. Is it possible that the crank and cam got out of sync? Don't think this is possible...

We shall see.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ryan: does that mean I could try running the engine with the LN3 balancer and sensor?</div></div>

YES.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Kind of did a compression test when I applied pressured to each cylinder. At least was able to know that pistons didn't have holes blown in them and that valves were sealing.</div></div>

That was a leakdown test. A compression test will give us a better idea if the valve timing events are close to being correct.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I don't think the timing chain came off since turning the balancer opened and closed the valves in my head gasket test. </div></div>

The valves will still open and close even if the timing chain jumped. However, IF the timing chain jumped, then the valves will be opening and closing at the wrong times.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Is it possible that the crank and cam got out of sync? Don't think this is possible...

</div></div>

Yes, if the timing chain jumped time.

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or if the balancer sheared the woodruff key. This is one of the things I would be concerned about with an "L" balancer on a "C" crank. Check the end of the crank for a score as if the balanced was spinning. Will probably be thin and near the end. If you can try to pull the balancer straight off and see if the grooves still line up. Would need to be pretty far off to just sputter.

Is there any way to remove the s/c pully from the "L" balancer and put it on a "C" ?

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Is there any way to remove the s/c pully from the "L" balancer and put it on a "C" ? </div></div>

Don't think so Padgett, I think the S/C double belt pulley set is machined as one piece. The outer race is to drive the Blower only with the inner race aligned with the existing accessory belt run.

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I wonder if it would be possible to take the two balancers and have someone like Dale Mfg make up a composite balancer. Might be easier just to use a "L" long block though.

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I can't get the balancer off. From under it I pried with a prybar and a big screwdriver evenly...didn't help. The POS balancer puller I borrowed from Advance (almost $100 deposit) is useless. The 3 holes that these balancers have do not have any threads, so bolts can't be used in them, and the balancer is too big to use the triangular thing with the hooks/claws. I tried using some long, skinny bolts with I think a 3/8'' head in the holes, but they pulled out.

Is there a special GM puller for this?

EDIT: checked at Bonneville club and found the prescribed bolts. They didn't come in the kit. I'll get some tomorrow (costs waaaay too much for special trips these days)

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Yes GM has a J-tool (see att)

post-31022-143137886955_thumb.jpg

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Haha! She's running!

I got the bolts that Bonneville club mentioned and removed my old balancer. Below is a crappy photo of the L67 balancer, but do notice that the key kind of made its own keyway to the left of the real one

sc45.jpg

You guys were right...timing was being thrown off. I installed the LN3's CPS and balancer. The key was still ok and I was able to install the belt for the water pump, S/C, and air con, so at least we'd have the pump going. She fired right up. First had a lot of smoke from remaining coolant in the exhaust, but it cleared out. No leaks found.

It is idling at around 2300 rpm, though it did drop down from like 3300. It's revving up fine (thank you Ryan).

Greg: I remember you mentioned that the high idle would die down after a few days. This true? Will it slow down enough to be able to drive it if I let it run longer? 2300 is still way to high to consider putting it in gear.

I haven't looked into it yet, but I need to figure out how I can deal with installing the L67 balancer. Padgett was right, and it's tapered. The LN3 balancer more or less falls off when removing. I do suppose we could have our beloved machining genius remove the taper from the snout of the L67 balancer.

Thank you, from a happier Reatta owner grin.gif

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Congratulations! Now, as with any project, a couple of bugs, and some fine tuning..................... cool.gif

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Call Dale. He may be able to build a balancer that fits an LN3 crank with the extra pully. Will probably need your junk L-67 and an LN3 for parts.

Then again my LN3 was the first he had rebuilt and may not want to do any more tongue.gif Do see he is charging extra for it now.

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