Supercharging (this time, it's real)

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Didn't get to drop by NAPA but will tomorrow. And will setup my fuel lines before I see Ryan on Saturday. Did get my alignment done today though...front and rear for $70, which seems good to me. Was weird to see the technician drive away in my car. I don't think I've ever seen my car move without being in it.

Communicating with Ryan so I can visit him on Saturday and get the tuning done.

Tomorrow I'm going in to take the 1st half of the CompTIA A+ (PC servicing, repair, etc) certification exam . So I can soon get hired! And pay for my 92-93 octane gas. For 10 cents more, the Sunoco on Logan has 94 octane

[gmtuners.com]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Ryan. I read at the Bonneville club of the vacuum controller being disconnected and pulling like 17 psi . Nothing I'd ever do though.

</div></div>

I don't know what those guys over on the bonneville forums are doing or using but the bypass actuator DOES NOT regulate boost on these engines. This type of supercharger is a fixed displacement or linear output supercharger which means it will only put out a fixed amount of airflow/boost per RPM. The only way you are going to get more boost is by installing a smaller SC pulley, but even then the boost level should stay pretty consistant throughout the RPM range.

Like I said before, all that bypass actuator does is unload the SC when the engine doesn't need it. It also has a provision to open the actuator to prevent boost during reverse, top speed limit, and decel (via the boost control solenoid). That's it. At least from the factory standpoint. I suppose someone could hack the PCM to make it control the boost solenoid in such a way to actually control boost level. But the only thing that can do is reduce boost from what you normally have; it can't increase it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I've still got that myterious tranny leak. When off, or idling, and even in drive on stands, it doesn't drip. It's leaking a little bit but not a significant amount. It is burning though and getting on the bottom of the passenger side. Some even makes it back to the cat and burns. My dad and I looked under it and couldn't figure out where it's leaking. </div></div>

The only thing in the rear of the trans is the dipstick tube seal and pan gasket. On the right side all that is there is the axle seal, pan gasket, and governor/VSS sensor housing seals.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

The admin had to close that thread

Thank you for enlightening on my seals.

Ryan: could you send me an email or PM with your address for directions and last resort phone number?

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Going on a day trip tomorrow to Ryan's place

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Just got back from Ryan's. He's a genius at what he does. No hesitation at all at any speed. It's doing good . He was pretty cool to meet after all the help he's given. My little brother's using the card reader but I've got some cool pix that I'll post later.

You could say that the project's complete, and yes, it was a success. It's real.

[89REATTAJIM]

Congrats to you and all involved. When does the movie come out??

Jim

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Ryan at work with his scanner

Checking some stuff out. I had one bad plug wire (borrowed from Claret)

He had this immaculate Fiero GT in his shop. Check out this Series II L67

memcal burning. Had to do it a few times, adjusting different things, including adding a bit more spark advance

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Someday I think I'll do a real rebuild on my L67 I have. That way I can do it with those 1.72 performance rockers from seriesoneperformance.com, a better cam, and underdrive pulley. Ryan said it wouldn't be a good idea to do an underdrive pulley on my engine cuz of long term durability.

You guys ought to shop seriesoneperformance.com. They're got those hi-po rockers, cams, and are working on better rockers. And yes, this stuff will work in an LN3.

[luftweg]

Don't suppose Ryan tweaked out that riding mower?

Is that a customer's, or just his own.... and is it SC-ed? lol.

[manikmekanik]

See, I told 'ya it should be RED!

Ryan's S/C looks toooo cooool in Rrrrrred!

Now you have the chance to "colorize" the L67, while you prepare it for the next swap!

Congratulations, Phil!! great flik, take a Cameraman next run, and don't show the speedo in the shot. Record your 0-60 time, so we can compare to other "supercars" and see where they rate.

[padgett]

Yep. Fiero people do a lot of things like that. Suspect he now has "lifetime" spark plugs innit. Fiero is easy because almost nothing except the engine/trans is computer controlled & can treat swap as a plug-in.

Is also 500 lbs lighter than a Reatta & GT came with 15x7 wheels so can fit decent tires.

Do you know which transmission is in the Fiero ? I have heard of the 3T40 being used with small blocks so should be adequate for the L-67 and would be shorter than the 4T65E at the expense of a few more revs on the road.

Getting all of the peripherals to work in a Reatta is what makes it hard.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Yeah I got talking with Ryan about that. Fiero's are really simple in contrast with Reattas; a car that sometimes needs rebooting

[gmtuners.com]

For some reason I am not getting notified of updates to this thread...

Anyway, it was great to meet Philip and finally see his project. I must say he hasn't done to bad with it -- looks a lot better than the first stuff I messed with years ago.

Like Philip said, we found a bad plug wire which was causing most of the problems. We also discovered that the engine wanted more WOT timing than what I had originally given it. We also bumped up the idle TPS setting to I think about 0.42 volts because the 0.3x it was set at caused a high idle after I reset the computer. I also gave him a little more fuel at WOT to satisfy what the engine wanted.

I must say that the rescaled MAF tables worked out great. The LV8 doesn't max out at 255 unless we were near max RPMs just before the shifts at WOT. At lower RPM's in WOT the LV8 was hovering around 240. This tells me that we are just getting towards max airflow reading at the upper RPMs. Unfortuneately my scan tool maxxes out airflow reading at 99.9 gm/sec so I couldn't keep an eye on that.

Anyway, Philip has a few other things he is going to do like looking into extending his induction system so it isn't sucking hot air close to that exhaust crossover pipe. I did notice on one test drive the ECM was seeing IAT temps close to 140 deg F. There is some more power there if he upgrades the air filter to a K&N unit and can get it fed with some colder air. We also discussed the possibility of adding an external trans cooler to complement the factory unit that is in the radiator to keep the trans temps down. Putting a lot more power thru this trans not only increases the load on the trans itself but also makes the torque converter stall higher than it would with a stock C motor.

I was also discussing with Philip something I had found out about the plug wires. Appearantly factory equipped and GM replacement wires for the Supercharged engines have lower resistance than what you would find on naturally asperated engines. At least this is the case with Series II engines. I don't know that much about series 1 stuff because those are hard to find with low miles and original plug wires on them. Anyway, I told Philip next time he gets some plug wires it might not be a bad idea to shop around for some performance ones possibly some from the GM parts department (not sure if Series 1 SC wires are still available). The increase cylinder pressure from the boost puts a strain on all secondary ignition components. I told Philip that his Type I ignition system (Magnavox style) should be fine for this engine because I know a lot of GN / Turbo Buick guys who still run stock units on 10sec and faster cars...Although the Type II (Delco) setups are becoming more popular and are proving to be more durable.

Anyway, I am happy we get Philip's project squared away and running right for him. Now hopefully he remembers to keep his foot out of it while he is around his local law enforcement because that shiney red Reatta does attract attention when you hear that supercharger wind up!

PS: Padgett, I did get that CD you sent me -- Thanks! I haven't had a chance to look at it though because I have been so busy.

[2seater]

Did the scanner record the 0-60 times or approx. 1/4 miles? I have had to delay starting a run to be sure the scanner connected to the ECM before matting the pedal. Only records 15 frames so generally only got about 13 frames @ one per second to get a good run recorded. Indications are between 5 and 6 seconds 0-60 and 90-95 mph after about thirteen seconds with my turbo installation. Just sorta curious how it compares?

I agree a good cold air intake will yield some free hp. in this installation, but other than that, I am very impressed.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Thanks for the good comments.

Yeah, Ryan said a real K&N filter would do better than my cheap APC I bought for the swap. But hey, the stock airbox diameter was too small, the APC has to flow better anyway (sold mainly for ricers though), and I could buy a few APC filters for the price of a K&N. I think I'll search ebay for a K&N...otherwise they cost too much to me.

[2seater]

I think cool air is probably more important at the moment. Even just moving the filter from the present location to closer to the normal inlet area from the front below the relay box would help. Or possibly a surround for the filter in the present location with a hose feeding it from the stock forward area. In a pinch you can use the stock inlet hose, connected normally as marked, and a short piece of 3" pvc pipe to connect the filter to the hose. They will stretch to fit over the 3.5" o.d. of the pipe. The present location picks up radiant heat from the exhaust below and mostly warm air from the radiator. Pressurizing the air to around 7-8 psi will raise the outlet air from 70*F to around 200*F, cooler to start with will help a lot.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Will commandeer some 3'' pipe from the van and see what I can do. On my list of things to do soon.

About the tranny cooler...I haven't really been under there to investigate the lines, but how would I go about connecting one? Would it be before the cooler in the radiator or after? Should an auxiliary filter be used too? I'll drop the pan/filter and do a refill when I do it too. How big of one? Seems they're rated in max-towing weights

How about this bad boy? Sorry, haven't e...zz one, etc...?

Maybe I need a more conventional one (looks like a radiator).

But think! I could paint it silver and remove my grill and put it in place and tell the ricer boys its my intercooler

[gmtuners.com]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will commandeer some 3'' pipe from the van and see what I can do. On my list of things to do soon.

About the tranny cooler...I haven't really been under there to investigate the lines, but how would I go about connecting one? Would it be before the cooler in the radiator or after? Should an auxiliary filter be used too? I'll drop the pan/filter and do a refill when I do it too. How big of one? Seems they're rated in max-towing weights

How about this bad boy? Sorry, haven't e...zz one, etc...? </div></div>

You don't necc need that style of cooler. There are other, cheaper designs out there that work just fine and can be mounted in front of the radiator / ac condensor. (here is an example of what I use:)

Basically what you will need to do is determine which way the fluid flows thru the trans cooler in the radiator. What you will need to do is unhook both trans cooler lines from the radiator -- Do this with the engine OFF. Some fluid will come out so have a drip pan ready. Once the lines are off, hook some hose to both lines and drop the other ends of both hoses into your drip pan. Have an assistant start the engine and shut it off immediately once you see fluid spray out of one of the hoses. NOTE WHICH LINE THE FLUID SPRAYS OUT OF. This is the line you are going to hook back up to the radiator as it was from the factory. The purpose of doing this is because we want the fluid to come from the trans and flow thru the radiator cooler first, then thru the external cooler, then back to the trans. If we had it go thru the ext cooler then the radiator, the coolant in the radiator could actually heat the fluid back up a little.

Now, what you need to do is obtain a fitting that screws into the radiator that has a nipple or length of line coming from it (to clamp hose to); I believe that would be 5/16" line w/ double flare for your Reatta. Then, using approved trans cooler hose, attach one port of the external trans cooler to the line coming from the radiator and the other port of the ext cooler to the line going back to the trans. Make sure you double check your hose clamps and make sure they are tight -- but not too tight (you don't want the clamp cutting into the hose). You will also want to check your clamps and hoses for leaks for the next few weeks to make sure they don't loosen up on you due to temp changes.

You can get external trans coolers for about $30-$80 depending on size from most auto parts stores. Bigger coolers work better but any cooler would be better than nothing. Autozone and places equiv also carry approved trans oil cooler hose and clamps.

I usually find nice sized used trans coolers at the junkyards on Ford Rangers and Aerostars as well as some Chrysler products. Every once in a while you will find one on a GM. Anyway, if you do get a used one make sure you flush it out really good with carb cleaner then blow it out with compressed air before you install it. The trans cooler can be attached to the A/C condensor or core support structure using plastic wire ties. Or you can buy the fancy trans cooler mounting hardware.

[gmtuners.com]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think cool air is probably more important at the moment. Even just moving the filter from the present location to closer to the normal inlet area from the front below the relay box would help. Or possibly a surround for the filter in the present location with a hose feeding it from the stock forward area. In a pinch you can use the stock inlet hose, connected normally as marked, and a short piece of 3" pvc pipe to connect the filter to the hose. They will stretch to fit over the 3.5" o.d. of the pipe. The present location picks up radiant heat from the exhaust below and mostly warm air from the radiator. Pressurizing the air to around 7-8 psi will raise the outlet air from 70*F to around 200*F, cooler to start with will help a lot. </div></div>

Agree 1000%. Philip, even if you can't afford a K&N filter at the moment I would at least get your filter as far away from the exhaust and radiator heat as possible.

[gmtuners.com]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did the scanner record the 0-60 times or approx. 1/4 miles? I have had to delay starting a run to be sure the scanner connected to the ECM before matting the pedal. Only records 15 frames so generally only got about 13 frames @ one per second to get a good run recorded. Indications are between 5 and 6 seconds 0-60 and 90-95 mph after about thirteen seconds with my turbo installation. </div></div>

I was using an OTC Monitor 4000 Enhanced but I don't know the specific frame/update rate when hooked up to the Reatta. It is somewhat slower than what I am used to because the scan tool was sharing the feed with the DIC/CRT which slowed it down a bit. Sorry no idea on 0-60mph numbers. But I can tell you the car felt pretty good to me at least.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Would an aux. tranny filter be of any benefit?

Got thinking...I'm pretty sure my dad's had an extra tranny cooler he had on a van laying around for like years. I'll take a look.

Might take me a couple days to mess with the cold air intake (second half of A+ exm tomorrow )

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Searched ebay. I've heard of them being used like with Power Stroke/Super Duty trucks and Explorers before

like $9 filter kit

This seems to be an engine oil filter relocation kit but would do about the same thing

I asked Ryan about an engine oil cooler, but he said because of superior synthetic fluids these days, it shouldn't be a worry.

[Guest EDBSO]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

I use the same one on my Reatta, I will try and photograph it in the enxt couple of days. EDBSO

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Checked with my dad and we indeed do have a spare cooler. Will be installing that soon. maybe2fast informed me that there are rubber lines I can attach to (after the radiator's cooler).

[2seater]

I run two coolers like the pic showed, oil and transmission. They are the B&M style stacked plate type and are very tough. I have mine side by side right behind the grill and they are tough enough to take hits from gravel, but they are a bear to flush dead bugs from. I don't know about the aux. filter for the trans? Shouldn't really be needed and reduces flow, especially if you service the trans. regularly. The factory recommendation is to place the cooler after the stock radiator cooler, but many feel the opposite routing is the best to theoretically take some of the load from the radiator. Usually the cooler from the trans. feeds the bottom fitting on the radiator so it has the most heat transfer from the hot fluid to the coolest part of the radiator. My intention is to make two "Y" fittings from thick aluminum stock so it can be tapped for barbed fittings. The purpose is to split the flow through the two coolers for less pressure drop.

I do run an oil cooler, especially with the turbo that adds heat to the engine oil just flowing through the turbo. Is it necessary? Good question, and I don't have the answer. Apparently some factory s/c cars did have an engine oil cooler and others did not? One problem with it is it does lower oil pressure somewhat, the cooler lists a pressure drop of several psi and also the turbo is stealing some oil from the main gallery above the filter. So far, oil pressure is adequate and I have compared the digital readout of pressure to the actual pressure read on a gauge and the sensor is reading several psi lower than actual, so fingers are crossed. The seemingly odd thing is the pressure goes down a little as the oil warms and actually rises some if the oil gets hotter like in traffic with little air flow through the cooler. The assumption being the viscosity changes with temperature, at least it seems logical to me. There is no doubt the coolers are doing their job as the outside air temperature reading on the instrument panel is always 30*-40*F higher than the ambiant air. The sensor is forward of the radiator but the coolers are further forward right behind the grill. Most of these questions are answered with the old carburetor axiom " If some is good, more is better and too much is just right". It fits a lot of situations.The best cooler is the one that is free and installed.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Thanks 2seater for the extensive info. I think I'll relocated the temperature sensor, for even when stock, sitting in traffic will get it to read unrealistically high.

[gmtuners.com]

I wouldn't mess with a external trans filter. It isn't going to be of much benefit for your application.

Also, you will want to run BOTH the trans cooler in the radiator AND the external cooler. Yes, running only the external cooler would make fluid flow more but the external cooler may under or over cool the transmission. Also, you want to have the hot fluid coming from the trans to pass thru the radiator FIRST because you have to remember there is hot coolant in the radiator that can actually heat up the trans fluid if you had it hooked up the other way around.

I would leave the IAT sensor in the air induction stream. Yes, you can relocate it to a cooler location but then the computer won't have an accurate reading of how hot the air is going into the engine. Besides, leaving it in the induction system will tell you how much of an improvement you will make once you relocate your air filter.

-ryan

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Thank you Ryan.

I meant to move the on-screen climate/comfort outdoor temperature sensor, cuz it reads high from the engine's heat

[gmtuners.com]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you Ryan.

I meant to move the on-screen climate/comfort outdoor temperature sensor, cuz it reads high from the engine's heat </div></div>

Oh, my bad. I thought you were talking about the IAT sensor.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Well, been on the road a while. I'd say the project has been a success. In other threads, I talked of adding a large transmission cooler, flushing with Mobil 1 fluid, changing filter, and also extended my cone air filter for more of a "cold air" effect.

Someday, when I have a lot of money, I'm going to explore more high performance Reatta modifications. A turbo Series II L67 would be slick. Someday, we may very well have like a 500 hp Reatta . Another thing that may be worth trying is kind of going back and using FWD turbo 3.8L like the prototypes were. My 4T60 is eventually going to die. If you recall, its got over 156k and original except for the modulator. I don't mean to copy Greg's style, but I've thought about it, and a sticker would feel sooooo nice.

I wish Reattadudes would let us know if he was able to buy one of the turbo prototypes like he was talking about.

Another possible project would be to use the new 6 speed manual and/or the 3.9L from like the G6 GTP. From the way I see it, stuff like this is best handled by using the LN3's sensors on the newer motor and programming the ECM for it, but I'm not sure if the 3.9L has like variable valve timing and stuff that would have to be worked around. With me, it is a requirement to keep the Reatta's instrumentation (whether a '90-91, or an ECC system). This isn't a Fiero where we can just rip out everything and replace it.

Haha! 500 hp Reatta pulls up to a Corvette, GTO...

As Manik once said...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Not to worry, like other desireable collectible cars, there will always be enthusiasts who are willing to deal with them. Picture, if you will, the young man in his rough condition collectible car, the fifth, (or 12th), owner. He works on it every weekend, and sometimes "en route", just to keep it on the road, because he LOVES to drive HIS too-cool car. He spends time in boneyards, on eBay and at forums, searching for parts and technical information for HIS glorious ride. He can rebuild it, make it better! Like Lee Austin, the six-million dollar man. It's not just a car to him, it's a conquest, an affair, or maybe a life long commitment.</span>

[Guest Greg Ross]

<span style="font-weight: bold">It's not just a car to him, it's a conquest, an affair, or maybe a life long commitment.</span>

Dat's it Brother, Dat's it, exactly da way it is!

Well said, for me must be nine years and counting. And Ryan has a PROM on the way for me, Yippee!

[manikmekanik]

Congratulations, again Phil!

I admire your fortitude and perseverence!

You've condensed a "lifelong project" into 12 pages of posts, in short order!

I'm looking forward to meeting you at the Nats in July, or the "Gathering" in Sept.

[gmtuners.com]

He Phil, just wondering how the car is running and if you did that cold air induction upgrade yet??

-ryan

[Guest Greg Ross]

Ryan,

Never got a chance to plug in the modified PROM for my '88. Tied up getting a boat launched and then it's time to get back to work. Return to the East July 1 for a month and I'll get her going then.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

I was about to post tonight.

Yes, I did extend my intake tube as you suggested, Ryan.

However, I noticed yesterday that I'm like not getting any boost at all. I don't have a gauge for boost (yet) and it still whining as it does, but maybe a bit less. On Lansing road I raced against the Select 60, bone stock, driven by my dad, which is a few hundred pounds heavier than my coupe. From a stop till we let off around 65, they were dead even. WTF!? I felt the difference that day. I haven't hit it in the past few days except for the above cuz we've had guests at home. What's wrong?

My cone air filter has fallen off my of intake tube a few times, so maybe a few hundred miles without the filter on <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. I painted the PCV tube but I guess the heat got the paint weird and kinda melted, letting it slip off. I realize this isn't a good thing for any motor, but especially bad with forced induction. Would this be enough to wear the Teflon off of the rotors?

Could my vacuum boost controller be malfunctioning?

In other news...

I'll post pix later, but my older brother is letting me borrow his 17'' silver rims from his '99 Mustang GT. They look pretty good. However, they're amplifying the effects of my loose front end. Imma make another thread on that.

Thanks guys. I'm not discouraged, but kinda sucks I'm not getting anything from all that extra hardware, and time, and money...

[Guest F14CRAZY]

It seems that my boost controller is faulty. I'm asking the Bonneville guys about it, but when disconnected, I get full boost <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. With it connected normally, there's not really anything. I'm gonna check it out and see if it can be cleaned or something, but its old anyway and replacement would probably be best.

[gmtuners.com]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems that my boost controller is faulty. I'm asking the Bonneville guys about it, but when disconnected, I get full boost <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. With it connected normally, there's not really anything. I'm gonna check it out and see if it can be cleaned or something, but its old anyway and replacement would probably be best. </div></div>

Sounds like your boost controller is the device giving you fits. I don't know what you are using so I don't know how it works so I can't offer much help.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Howdy Ryan and everyone. I ordered a new boost controller from Story Buick/Pontiac. Was $30 something, a lot less than I figured it would be.

The Bonneville guy Willren is saying I really should have an engine oil cooler since the stock L67s had one, I guess, and that I should bypass the radiator's tranny cooler because of its small passages. I'm using Mobil 1 though, which Ryan says will take care of the oil cooler (which I certainly do believe. I have faith in my tuner). Why should I bypass the stock cooler? My aux cooler comes after it, so its not like the engine's coolant is heating it up before it goes back to the pan.

I think the Bonneville board owner is just hating on me. He's hated my S/C idea since I announced it.

[Guest Greg Ross]

Philip,

The responses you're getting from the Bonneville Board reminds me of the few Odd-Ball responses I managed to extract out of that Bunch a few years ago. If you feel unwelcome just leave them go. My impression was Wilren is in the business of soliciting work and business off that board.

It's called self interest, you're not contributing to that.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Thanks Greg. This guy is borderlined on deleting my posts, i swear. I think a few of those dudes are gonna do the same thing I did. Willren thinks its a punishable sin