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ZondaC12

Continuation of my 1938 Special thread

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I had to have tubes put in my 56 also. In my case they were radial tubes which I bought in Flint Michigan during the Centenial Meet. They were only $12.00 apeice. Make sure yours are good or your carrying 4 spare tires. Believe me, multiple flats on one trip are not a lot of fun.

JD

ps: What's with the Tach? Buicks have a sound to them that tells you the engine speed. You'll see what I mean when you get it out on the road. It becomes a sixth sense.

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

oh, well i didnt really know that, so i wanted to get a tach so i would know. ill bet i will develop that sixth sense, but ill keep it anyway. personally i feel any car ought to have a tach. maybe its just me but when i get into a car and there's no tach i dont feel right, almost "disconnected" to the engine or something like that.

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Thats the marketing department of the car manufacturers that are doing that to you. My Dodge truck with an automatic does not need a tach, but yet I have one.

Back in the olden days, the only cars that had tachs were the race cars. Now everyone has one so they can charge you more.

Believe me, you will get to know the sound of you car and how fast it is running.

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well i gotta hand it to them theyve succeeded! i guess because of that, i like to be able to know exactly how fast its going, and see the redline mark and know the most it can take.

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well the picture isnt showing up, but im pretty sure i know roughly whats supposed to be there grin.gif

edit: nevermind the pic is there now! yup, looks just like the inside of my neighbor's G35 sedan! 'course, he has the optional flux capacitator with the 6-way blowoff valve and liquidator attachment, so theres about twice as many buttons actually. the one you posted has the modulator only, not the capacitator. when you rev the engine it just doesnt sound as cool, thats the only noticeable difference. a bit overrated, but fools and their money...

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I thought it was the dash on the Honda Hybrid! And the pedals on the floor are for the chain and sproket to the drive wheel burried underneath the thing... grin.gifgrin.gif

JD

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mr. mattot gave me two tubes along with the tires. the day i took the tires and wheels to be mounted i discovered the one tube was ripped! where the valve stem attaches to the tube there is a large visible disc around the base of the stem, maybe 2" in diameter. it seems thicker than the rest of the tube and is glued to it or something, im guessing when the tube is made. well, about 3/4" worth of the circumference is torn off from the tube, not sure if i should try and patch it. so i brought along the good tube.

the guy said he used the tube i gave him and had to patch another. he said those were completely stuck to their respective wheels. fortunately, the amount of rust on the inside of the wheels was minimal, he said. at some point in the future (probably about when i can finish getting the blasting cabinet ready, once we clear out that area of the basement a little) ill remove them again, buy all new tubes, blast the rust off the wheels, repaint them, and put the tires back on with new tubes.

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Something sure to open an old can of worms...

Have you thought about putting seat belts in?

(What made me think of that)

It's easy, cheap and smart.

An old car, a young driver (no offense) and todays streets...If something goes wrong (like blowing a tire) you want to stay with all that energy absorbing stylishly designed sheet metal.

Go to a boneyard and find a pre '72 (no shoulder straps) GM product and buy the seat belts for a couple of bucks (your Mother will give you the money, guaranteed) lay them out as in the donor and bolt them through the floor, not the frame. Make sure the holes you drill for the bolts don't hit anything or get blocked by the frame. Put the seat mid way back and place the bolts where the belts can reach with adjustment in both directions. (This worked for me)

This was the first thing I did when I purchased my Buick.

Please. Do it.

And if your Mom thinks this is a wonderful idea because her son is so safety concious and she forks over the dough; Go for broke.

Keep your hand out and say "AAAAAHhhh I was thinking of wearing a new helmet too...

grin.gif

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Any one willing to bet the farm on the accuracy of a tach made for a 12 volt system which is running on 6 volts? I know you buy them or remember that you buy them based on the number of cylinders of your engine, but voltage is assumed to be 12.

Ever since the discussion in this thread about gear oil in the differential and transmission and the damage which could be caused by using the wrong stuff, I began to have this fear of what the Valvoline 80 w 90 I put in this summer was doing to my diff. and tranny. Since the last posts had me either flying to Sweden or Australia to get the proper oil, I don't think so, I called the BCA advisor for '41s and asked for help. He told me not to worry about it because modern oils, GL-5, are neutral. He did recommend using 120 weight which will send me on another treasure hunt because, so far, I have only been able to find 140 in straight weight quarts.

When I said I wanted to pull the differential inspection plate, I was advised that a wise next step would be to pull the circlips on the axles, pull the axles and the outer grease seals to see if the rear bearing grease was actually in a pliable state or if it had hardened. I just got the car last year and I know that the grease in the lower outer A-arms was so solid that I had to drill it out, very carefully, through the zerk holes and then over a 30 day period, squirt Liquid Wrench alternating with gas before it would soften up enough to accept gun grease. I can only imagine what the rear bearing grease might look like.

Why are these cars so much work, especially when to the previous owner, preventive maintenance, was a foreign language?

John

BCA #41635

'41 Mod 46

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The '38 tech rep. told me to use the Aussy stuff, in fact he gave it to me. Made me drain the brand new new oil out.

Who do we believe. Gotta find facts.

It doesn't matter anyway, now you've got me worried about my rear bearings.

grin.gif

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i have thought about seatbelts, and i guess i should. i dont take offense to "young driver". i am. and inexperienced with the way this car will drive. all i know for sure is that ill keep a great distance between me and the blockhead ahead of me.

as for the tach, i agree it might not be accurate, in fact it tends to jitter a bit still. im going to install much thicker gauge wire between the distributor contact and the green signal wire for the tach, like i did for the ground wire. i also cut the tiny wire coming from the tach back as far as possible, thus it shortens the length of small, more resistant wire that the pulse must travel through. at idle occasionally the tach sits at 0 or shakes a little above 0. but at a little higher, its very stable. so the thick-wire-trick on the ground wire should help even more. once i get out driving the car, ill compare the reported rpms to those listed on the RPM vs. MPH chart in my shop manual.

and i still havent heard from that ford place yet, maybe tomorrow, maybe next week! whatever, im not really in a rush. (okay i AM, but i dont really need to get it done immediately, i just cant help myself im impatient i want to get it done)

on that note about the grease, i did notice, as i greased up the front end, i think there were two total grease fittings, one on either side, on that vertical cylindrical piece that is used so the wheel and hub assembly can rotate, for obviously steering. these fittings would not take in any grease from the gun. i pushed pretty hard but didnt want to break anything so i stopped trying. so i dont know what this says about my situation with the rear bearings. i didnt think there was grease back there! i thought the gear oil took care of it all, filling the axle too. does it not? after 25 years of sitting do you think the grease in my car is all hardened up? this bit of news has me worried suddenly, i really dont need this. im pretty sure i dont want to be taking apart my rear axle.

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If your '38 is anything like my '51 (and I'd bet it is) there should be 7 grease fittings per side. Two on the top (one on each end) where the spindle support pivot pin connects the upper shock lever/control arm, one on the upper part of the spindle to get at the top kingpin bushing, on on the lower end of the spindle to get at the bottom kingpin bushing and the roller bearing, one on the front end of the lower spindle support pivot pin, and two (one at each end) on the shaft where the lower control arm mounts to the frame crossmember.

Then there's a few more on the steering linkage- one on each tie rod end at least.

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First of all, a warning. I have been working on my Buick for about the same length of time as the originator of this thread. I am no expert, and appreciate this thread for the information it has provided for us newbees who are trying to soak up as much information as possible in the shortest period of time.

Grease zerks. I think you are describing frozen zerks in the kingpin area. I had a couple with the same problem in this area. What I did was to take them out, they are stainless steel and mine came out easily. I put them in the grease gun and tried to pump grease through them. Both would not pass grease so the problem was frozen zerks. I googled "grease zerks" and found a supplier in Wisconsin who was willing to sell a small quantity of these SAE 1/4" zerks at a premium price. If I had gone to my local hardware store, which I did when I was looking for a 3/8" 60 degree zerk, I found that I could have purchased the 1/4" ones for about 50 cents each, but they were not stainless. I didn't like what my NAPA store offered because they were in plastic shell packages of either an assortment where only one of the six pieces was what I wanted, or I really couldn't be sure the packages of one size was really the correct size. Let's all hope that the Home Depots and Lowes never replace the local hardware stores.

As a side comment, the lube chart for my '41 does not indicate zerks at the inner attachment points for the lower A-arms, but my car has them. Also, since I replaced the shocks, the upper attachment point was cleaned out of the blue colored petrified grease. I am still having a little problem with either the clutch or brake pedal fulcrum zerk.

Rear end and tranny grease/oil. Sounds like this would be a good subject for a Bugle article. Any chemical engineers out there?

Rear bearing lubrication. These bearings are packed with wheel bearing grease. They are not lubricated with the oil in the rear end, and if they are, there has been a failure of the inner grease seal. The shop manual indicates that these bearings should be lubricated every 10,000 miles or at the time of replacement of the rear brakes. Says a lot of the lifespan of brakes back then.

I too received the information about what I SHOULD do about the bearings if I was pulling the inspection plate with not a lot of happiness. When someone says SHOULD, and that someone also said that he has been on the side of the road waiting for tow truck because he didn't check the rear bearing grease, you know you would be a fool not to do it. But when I looked at the manual, this does not look like a fun job. Every procedure refers to using a special tool. A screwdriver and hammer might get the keepers out, but a bearing puller is a must to get the bearing and seals out. And I would assume that new seals would be an absolute requirement. If anyone who might have accomplished this job reads this, any hints would be greatly appreciated, especially on where to get a bearing puller or something to jury rig. Manual says the seals and bearing are lightly pressed in, but after 65 years, I don't think lightly is the operative word.

Seat belts. After replacing the "death wish" steering sector as my first project, I put in seat belts. Not for me because I believe I am bullet proof, but for those who ride with me who religiously buckle up. I got mine from YOGISINC who had a booth at the MSRA Back to the 50's. They are $19.95 ea plus $15.00 for the attachment hardware and come in about 8 different colors, one of which should be as inconspicuous as possible with the original upholstery. One thing to remember is to NOT attach them to the frame of the car or one side to the frame and one to the floor pan. If there is an accident, you want both the seat and the belts attached to the same part (bending, crushing) of the car.

Sorry for the length of the post, it is almost as long as one from NTX grin.gif.

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ok, ill definitely have to see about those rear wheel bearings. as a side note: perhaps i could find a shop that would do something like this? no? any idea of the cost? im not sure i want to tackle that myself, maybe if i could find someone to work with me...is it almost as simple as a pin or something connecting the gears to the axles that must be removed, then the axle can be pulled out? im guessing the axles are splined so the gears "slide" onto them? or have i just proven that i have nowhere near any idea of how this car's rear end is assembled?

anyone can feel free to answer the above, but right now im more concerned with oil issues in the engine. for the longest friggin' time ive been highly irritated by the fact that there is almost no film of oil on the 2 valve spring keepers at the end of the engine at the front of the car. the holes drilled in the top of each rocker arm, at a position about right over the rocker shaft itself, seem to me to do nothing for anything. the little diagrams in the car's owner's manual seem to show these supplying oil which will run down the arm to the tip and find its way between the tip and the end of the valve stem. haha...not so much. it just runs down the side of the arm! grrr.

so over my week vacation last week the other thing i did was take care of that. the cause was that the oil line hanging over the rocker tips was not working right. the holes over those last two, and somewhat the next one, were not dripping oil. interestingly, there are holes drilled on either side of the line for the last 3 valves, only. the hole one nearest the center of the engine, near the T-fitting that splits off into the two lines, one going toward the front, and one to the back, was gushing. the next few similarly. so, i grabbed some small zip-ties. i tightened them very tight around the first 4 holes i think, covering them completely. i fired up the engine, and now those end three has a nice steady dripping, much like the others. so now the others barely had anything falling, due to a tiny amount of oil somehow still finding its way around the zip ties. so then i moved each of the zip ties just the tiniest amount so that the holes were still mostly covered. now each of the 8 holes is dripping an eye-dropper sized drop onto it's own rocker tip anywhere from every 2 seconds to every maybe 4 seconds, the latter at the ones nearer the center, because i kept the covered pretty tight, otherwise the ones at the end would probably get almost nothing still. this seems to be enough (and keep in mind this is AT IDLE so volume will increase at higher speeds.) because the oil remains on the stem end for many seconds it appears.

just today actually i went back to Greg Roselle's site, and to Bill Stoneberg's site, and watched the video of his '50 woodie's engine running, with the valve cover off. both people's engines do not have these oil lines over the rocker tips. as i indicated before, the manual indicates from its pictures that an oil stream should come from those holes on top and run down to the stem.

are these lines possibly something added later, or not? i would think someone would have told me already but maybe not, so when in doubt ask, is my belief. secondly, is the rated normal oil pressure (shop manual says 45, some people have said 35 i think? whos right?) for idle speed? it is RIGHT THERE during warm up, but once the engine has been at 180 degrees for maybe 5 minutes and the idle has come down from high idle fully, choke opened up as much as it will, the pressure is down below 30, just barely under the mark between 30 and 0. when i rev it up it comes up, but i think half throttle gets it about to 30, maybe a little higher, i dont like to rev this thing much and sustain high rpms, im always thinking about these oil issues. could this line, if an extra add-on, be sapping oil pressure? am i losing valuable pressure to more vital areas like rod, cam journals, etc? soon i will work on clearing the passages to the pushrod balls attaching the rods to the rockers, as you may know not all of those have a nice stream of oil down them and im even more preoccupied with that. what when i clear them? more pressure loss? i really dont think the pickup screen is clogged, everything looked pretty nice when i pulled the pan, no crud all over everything, just some scummy-sludge looking stuff on the crankshaft counterweights. but i could always pull it again sometime and inspect the pump more closely.

------EDIT------

i just wanted to add this because it just now occured to me to check that big lubrication chart for my car. i seemed to remember something about the rear axle, and i shouted "i KNEW it!" when i read this: "Rear wheel bearings lubricated by lubricant in axle housing". uhhh... YES!!!!??? yay!!!!???

unclefogey, i mean in no way to discredit you, but possibly between '38 and '41 they made a change? heh, i dunno! what does everyone think? i mean, this <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> the shop manual talking here, and your news dropped a huge weight on my shoulders and now i feel like that weight has been lifted off. i really was depresed to know that something <span style="font-style: italic">else</span> major would be barring me from driving the car. all i can think of is that they changed the system sometime after '38.

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Could you post a pic of the oil line, rocker arrangement. I may be misinterpreting what you've decribed, but to me something does seem right.

As for the rear axle (sorry I didn't read back thru the entire thread), I recall mention that you had some fluid leakage. You will want to replace the seals, keep the fluid in where it belongs. The hardest part in my mind is removing the brake backing plates etc. in order to remove the axles. It is more time consuming that it is difficult.

You could save yourself a fist full of $$$ doing it yourself. You'll also have the satisfaction of doing it yourself, and knowing better how everything fits together.

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I guess I have learned a lesson and that is to not assume similarities in drive train components between model years. I made the statement about the lubrication of the rear wheel bearings based on my '41 shop manual description and the Cars Inc. catalog which lists the same INNER rear axle seal for all series except 80, 90, model years 1937 thru 1955. It is strange to me that an inner seal would be used in an application where the bearings are lubricated with the rear axle oil. Only true way to determine this is to hope that someone who has actually pulled the axles on a '38 will respond to this thread.

If you are hesitant to take this "little" job on, as I am, you ought to read the '55 shop manual which I borrowed from my friend. This manual has a very detailed description of what is required and has not made me feel any more confident that I can accomplish it. The following is from the '55 manual:

3. Remove rear wheel and brake drum.

4. Drain rear axle housing and remove cover.

5. Remove differential side pinion shaft lock screw , push pinion shaft from differential case, and remove spacers and pinions.

6. Push axle shaft inward and drive the horseshoe-shaped lock washer from grooved inner end of axle shaft, using remover J 1515.

7. Support axle shaft while pulling it out of axle housing to avoid damaging the wheel bearing oil seals.

1. After removal of the axle shaft, disconnect link from shock absorber arm.

2. Disconnect brake pipe from the wheel cylinder and cover openings in pipe and cylinder with plugs or tape to exclude dirt.

3. Remove bolts holding brake backing plate to housing and remove brake assembly. Support brake assembly out of the way to prevent injury to the brake cable.

4. Remove outer oil seal and roller bearing, then remove inner oil seal, using remover J-1436.

5. This refers to bearing replacement. Not applicable to this thread.

6. Drive new inner oil seal squarely and lightly against shoulder in axle housing, using care to avoid distorsion of the seal.

7. Install bearing roller bearing assembly, using care to start it squarely into axle housing by light taps with a brass drift on alternate sides of the outer race. Do not drive against the rollers. Drive outer race lightly against the shoulder in axle housing.

8. Drive new outer seal lightly against outer race of bearing, using care to avoid distortion.

1. Fill rear wheel bearing and space between oil seals with wheel bearing lubricant, allowing some expansion space-do not pack full. Coat leather edges of oil seals with lubricant.

2. Support axle shaft as it is inserted into rear axle housing to avoid damaging wheel bearing seals.

The manual goes on to describe putting the keepers back on the axles, AND checking axle play, yadda, yadda, yadda, all of which is well beyond my pay grade to understand, before reassembling the side pinions, thrust washers, side pinion shaft, and lastly locking everything in place with the lock screw and lock washer. Then on to returning the cover to position, brake backing plates, drums, wheels and finally bleeding the brakes.

Of course, none of the above is applicable if the rear bearings are lubricated with the differential oil. But if they are, you have the game plan. AND, the '41 advisor told me I wouldn't have to do most of the above because the axle keepers should come out without removing the side pinions, washers, and shaft, and the seals and bearings should come out without removing the backing plate.

I am not even going to think about starting this project until I am confident that foot or more of snow is not in the future because the '41 is up on jackstands as close to the wall of the garage as possible to make room for easy access to the snowblower. A friend of mine told me that he was in the process of replacing a rear bearing on his Suburban when he realized, too late, that the vehicle was too close to the wall of the garage and he couldn't remove the axle in the short space from the wall. Had to put it all back together, move the vehicle, and then start over frown.gif.

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You know what I hate? Those references to special tools like removers J-1436 and J-1515 confused.gif. I guess back in the day in the Buick service shops, they knew what the heck the manual was talking about. But now 60+ years later, these tools have faded into obscurity. Does anyone know if there's some reference manual out there that shows what these tools looked like?

Pete

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yes that sounds very annoying, at least in this day, when possibly once commonly known tools are not anymore. but there's always that one wise old guy who remembers, thank god they are still around!

i attached a pic of the line, next post down is the second pic

post-39688-143137883252_thumb.jpg

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I recall mention that you had some fluid leakage. You will want to replace the seals, keep the fluid in where it belongs. </div></div>

the only leak on the rear end is the film of oil on the removable differential rear cover plate, which is probably the cover's gasket leaking. it may be still leaking, but that film looks pretty old, so im guessing its a very slow leak, but again its not from the axle seals.

BTW 2nd pic attached

post-39688-143137883255_thumb.jpg

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Zonda, Thatks for the pictures. I now have a better understanding of what you are talking about.

On both my '47 and my '50 I dont have that tube. What I do have though is a line coming from the bottom of the engine to my Oil Filter. Do you have an oil filter on this car ? A line comes from the bottom of my filter to a fitting in the head. Inside the valve cover there is a little line that goes to the rocker arm in the very front of the engine. Thats all, no long tube to all the different points in the rocker.

Interesting arrangement, I have to wonder if this is an add on.

If you look at the picture I attacheched, the tube goes into the little hole right at the front of the rocker arm. How the rest of the head gets oil is an interestng question, but it does cause my valve cover leaked from the back of the head.

post-30710-143137883257_thumb.jpg

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i do not have an oil filter in the outside line going up to the head from the crankcase, but if you can see it in that picture i posted, the line comes up from the top surface of the cylinder head, connects to a T fitting that is attached where you described, on top of that rocker shaft bracket, to feed oil to the rocker shaft. the other output of the T fitting goes to the other T fitting branching off into the two hanging lines over the rocker tips

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Someone has created a big nightmare for you. That tube does not belong, definately someone created their own system.

A close up pic of where the oil line joins at the front from the head to the first rocker shaft support.

Unfortunately that does not appear to lubricte the rocker arm shaft. The oil is to flow thru the shaft and into the rocker arms and then out thru the little hole about half way along top edge of rocker.

You can cry now if you want, I would.

One of two reasons I can see for someone doing this.

1/ the oil passages thru the shaft and rockers was plugged up, they didn't know how to clean them.

2/ a more likely reason the shaft and rockers are worn (one or more of them) and the oil was leaking from between the shaft and rocker excessively, therefor not enough pressure to get it up thru the rocker.

If this is the case you are looking at big money to have it rebuilt, or find a good rocker arm assemble and replace it.

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Sorry for scaring you in the previous post.

Looked at your first pic again.

I've put a green line where the line is to go. And yellow circles where the oil should come out from rocker.

Take and remove the extra line from the first T and plug it. Then start the engine and see where the oil is flowing or not. Help diagnose what to do next.

post-43419-143137883259_thumb.jpg

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