Continuation of my 1938 Special thread

[Guest ZondaC12]

i will definitely GO to rhinebeck. whether or not in the '38 is---um--debatable/questionable. route 20 by my house going out towards duanesburg, becomes 55 mph after a mile or so, so i have a testing ground for highway driving right nearby. now obviously the actual highway is different because ill have people whizzing by and all of the other things (though i would think in a tour the long line of cars would probably be a little different and more respected? maybe not still?) but what im concerned with is how the car drives. i just gotta take it out there again and make sure everything's in check.

as far as i can tell this engine is a friggin tank. always starts up quick, runs great. the driveline is good too, though theres a leak at about the (torque ball?) and after the car has been driven a few minutes and everything's warmed up then parked in my garage on the cardboard that forms a 3, maybe 4 inch diamter puddle. so im gonna have to top that off soon. i have plenty of fluid, accidentally bought two bottles too much from that early ford place i had mentioned before.

and the thing i worry about the most--wheel bearings. once i take it out there for a few minutes when i come back home i gotta touch the caps and then the "dish" thing in the middle of the rear wheels and hope theyre not hot becuase if they are we got a problem.

i also just worry something big could happen. didnt i read somewhere that Bill Stoneberg's '47 4dr had a clutch BLOW UP or something on the way to the national? something to that effect? who knows? and id be stuck and not near home either. am i worrying too much? this is partly consisting of my mom's reasoning for me to not take the buick. i would bill s.' case is pretty rare though?

i really wanna take the thing...

[Bill Stoneberg]

Paul,

Buicks are meant to driven. Yes, I had a 15 cent rivet break that stopped me on the way to the Nationals but I dont let it stop me from driving my car.

I had planned on driving the same car to Rochester this year, but it looks like my long odessey with the woodie is going to be over, so I will take that instead.

Dont let the fear of something breaking stop you from enjoying your Buick. You make sure it is ready to go and then go for it. If something breaks, you have the resources and skills to fix it. After all, it could happen to your newer car too and they are not as easily fixed.

Have you pulled your wheel bearing and regreased them ? If not, maybe you should, if so, dont obsess about them. As I said, Buick's are meant to be driven.

[Guest ZondaC12]

oh yes i did pull them! i just want to check the temperature just to be sure. ill bet its fine though, because this past week i drove it around frequently and it rode just fine, all the time, every time, didnt smell anything burning or notice looseness in anything.

maybe its really what my mom has been telling me thats been making me think twice. honestly i think this car's a tank. now i dont want this to sound like my mom is the "big bad party pooper" she just errs on the side of caution always and wants me to do the same, and her suggestion is always to just "not use it".

and you have a great point about how the same stuff can (and it does!) happen on new cars and on them its hard to fix!

one more thing--glad to hear the woodie is finally coming along! i felt bad for you! nothing worse than being constantly disappointed and let down! that thing's gonna be so nice when its finished cant wait to see some photos

[JohnD1956]

I can understand your Mom's concerns. Have you taken her for a ride in it yet? I suggest you take her out on rt 88 to the first exit and back. Don't push the car. Here's another thing I tell my kids all the time " When you have someone else in the car, drive as if YOU are in the passengers seat.

Now you may wonder about that statement but I think most would agree that drivers panic in the passengers seat. They have no control and find themselves constantly second guessing the drivers reasoning and response. So if you leave an extra car length in between you and the guy in front, DO NOT comment on the jerk riding your back bumper, exhibit absolute control over your self ( no road rage no matter what) and slow down in turns so the passenger is not bouncing all over the interior, you'll find that a lot of the worry goes away.

As far as the trip to rhinebeck, we only go as fast as the oldest car. If that causes you concern, I would be glad to lead and we'll keep it below 60. Thats the reason we are leaving the first stop at 7:30 sharp. That way we'll have plenty of time. And we only travel the thruway to exit 21, then it's 55 max after that.

Of course whatever works for you. Do not feel pressured to take the 38 if you are not comfortable.

JD

[Guest ZondaC12]

i did figure on the "oldest car leading the pack" because they can only go so fast. if we could keep it below 60 i think that would be good. but again im going to take it out on 20 again and see what it feels like at 55 maybe even 60.

i thought id mention i actually bought a $20 off the shelf universal-type muffler and put it on and im amazed at how much more comfortable driving the car now. even though i still think about it a little, the one thing i also worried about was going along at ~60 mph with the engine screaming at well over 3000 rpm. this wasnt helped by the amount of noise with a straight pipe. i soon realized that with a loud exhaust and a car geared this tall its gonna be loud all the time. with the muffler on, at the tailpipe its now about as quiet as a normal brand-new car. so when i get up to like 40 mph when it would usually start to make more noise i dont even notice it that much, and i feel better about it.

i know Oxnard Montalvo or someone else here with a '38 said they crusie 65 mph all the time. though he probably has a restored one with a rebuilt engine (and the babbit-to-insert bearings, etc...) but i remeber reading a LONG discussion somewhere on the AACA forum about Buick vs. packard engines, and packard had problems with oil delivery but buick did NOT with the babbits.

im sure im sounding obsessive again but i can NOT have this engine fall into a condition where it becomes even remotely unusable. its gonna be years before i can sink $$$$$$$$ into it. however those things i mentioned are very comforting to me. that discussion i read seemed very factual and i believe it. i havent had any problems yet so ill bet itll be fine even running 3k + rpm. just gotta check the oil pressure every once in awhile, right?

i must admit this engine stuff has been a part of my worries too, but im pretty sure im over it.

[Guest ZondaC12]

on thursday i decided to drive her to school! this would have been one heck of an uneventful day (during the schoolday was, nothing happened, dont worry, i chose the lot that isnt full of wackos and i honestly can say i dont think anyone in either one would intentionally damage the car)...

however in the morning, with maybe 3 people behind me, doing 40 on a 40mph two lane main road, the speedometer decided to try and kill itself. it has done this one or two other times. i have a feeling they were both soon after i reset the tripodometer, as i did the day before in this case. suddenly the speedometer shoots to the highest reading and stays there, and a terrible high whining/grinding noise comes from it. if i slow down and stop or get to like 5 mph it stops and works normally, but i sotra couldnt pull over (FINE maybe i could have but the shoulder wasnt exactly a break down lane and i didnt want people veering around me and i thought ~1/8 of a mile might not hurt it wasnt thinking right...) so it did that that far until a red light. towards the end the needle shook and the center circle thing turned as if someone inside were pulling the shaft to the side. so the other 3/4 way to school at 45 mph-ish it read 65-70. when i parked it was at 50, dead stop.

when i got home, it sat at 20 and is still there, havent had a chance to drive this weekend, tons of studying for AP tests. right now i can only think of getting it out on the road and seeing if it fixes itself. is there a lot of hassle involved with removing the unit? i really cant believe this has happened. i have no idea how a speedometer works, it also just doesnt seem like something that would do this out of the blue.

im at square one here, can anyone offer me any tips? is it even possible to replace any of the (gears i guessing?) that probably stripped out if they are in fact ruined?

[JohnD1956]

I wonder if the speedometer cable has come unwound? I think that would be pretty rare, more likely it would snap first. But I have to admit, I'm just guessing here as well. I tend to doubt driving it will fix it. There is speedometer cable lubricant, which is a thin oil graphite solution. The cable is most likely screwed to the back of the speedometer head. You may be able to unscrew this and gain access to the cable for shooting some of that lubricant in there. But if you remove the cable, and the speedometer does not return to zero, I think you have bigger problems.

JD

[Pete O]

I don't have much experience with Buick speedos, but in addition to my '51, I also have a '29 Ford. When I first got it, the speedo wasn't working. I replaced the cable, and it worked for about 100 feet! It turns out the cable end got sheered off because the grease in the speedo had hardened over the years, and while the cable was trying to turn, the gummed up gears in the speedo were trying to stop it from turning. I took the the speedo out, took the cover off it, and shot WD40 into any hole, crack or crevase I could find. I really soaked it up good. I must have softed that old grease well enough, because that was 10 years ago now, and the speedo's been working fine ever since.

[Steve_bigD]

The speedometer is driven magnetically. The cable spins a magnet which couples to a closely spaced iron disc to provide the reading. There should be no mechanical connection between the spinning cable magnet and the disc. If rust, corrosion, etc causes contact, the needle will try to spin at the cable speed which will pin the pointer and possibly damage it.

I took my 38 out once on a below freezing day and apparently ice crystals had formed between the disc and the magnet and suddenly when contact was made there was a loud whine and the pointer spun all the way up and slammed the stop so hard the needle broke off. My odometer had not been working as well so I took it apart and was able to clean and repair a broken gear locking tab. Luckily I was able to glue the pointer back on.

You can rebuild it yourself but it is a slow tedious job which you should take you time with.

Steve D

[Guest ZondaC12]

well i guess it sounds simple enough...ill give it a shot!

i even found a diagram while searching "how does a speedometer work" http://www.e-insite.net/articles/images/TMW/20000215/TMW0002I5F4S1.gif so if thats it, doesnt look too bad to me. when i pull the casing apart, is everything secured (the spring and dial really)? i dont want anything shooting out at me, and really more important i dont want to shove it back into place!

thanks for the info everyone, didnt think id find that much!

[Oxnard Montalvo]

There is a cable on ebay if that's what you need, auction ends May 8th @ 7PDT. [color:\\"red\\"]1938 buick speedometer cable

Bob's Automobilia has a new one for $18.50.

Speedometer Cable

[Guest ZondaC12]

thanks! but im pretty sure the cable is fine. the outside isnt rusty, worn out or anything, and let me make is clear now that the speedometer <span style="font-style: italic">does</span> still work. i gotta drive it some this week, when i have a chance. stupid exams taking up all my time. after tomorrow i should be able to. but last i drove it it did work, but when the car isnt moving anywhere it registers maybe 25mph. with my new knowledge im thinking maybe the spring has been bent too far or even possibly the needle has been forced to slip on the shaft so the shaft is where it should be but the needle isnt. im gonna take it apart this week too and see what i can do.

[JohnD1956]

I was thinking about the problems you had on the trip this past weekend. I think you should replace that rubber gas line with a metal line. You can use a brake line and bend it just like you did on the brakes. I would think you have a 5/16th fuel line from the pump to the Carb but perhaps someone can give better advice on that size.

Anyway, the route your line takes lays it up against heat sources, and I'm sure you were experiencing vapor lock when it was warmed up. Even after we moved it a bit it was laying up against the radiator hose, and I'm sure that caused the added bucking problems. The fuel line does not need a lot of clearance but it should not tough anything. Maybe someone can post a photo of theirs so you can see the approximate route?

Meanwhile Doug said the car rode beautifully. If you want to help me with my seat belts on my 56, I'll help you install yours too, so we can both drive with greater sense of security. Let me know.

JD

ps: That is a fine looking car too!

[Guest ZondaC12]

well that may have added to the bucking problems but it was running like that from the time we left the fairgrounds, and i played around with it yesterday and not even fully warmed up it was running like garbage. and the spark jumping between the points is usually weak, sometimes i see nothing too.

the deal with the points is that two saturdays ago i ordered 2 sets of points from CARS, inc and by the next weds they hadnt shipped out. i called and the guy said "ill try and get em out tomorrow or the next day for sure". so my patience was too weak. i called up the local NAPA and they said they could get some! wow. but theyd have to order em, so come 8:00 that night. great, but i get there (forgot to ask about price) he rung em up, $40!!! well i wanted em badly so i did the stupid thing and bought em. at that point it was kinda rude to refuse them too, so that was part of it.

both sets didnt line up well. as in the points werent flat against each other. the one that moves was at a slight angle.

never ran too good on either, but the one set got me to rhinebeck and back. the ones from CARS came on monday, they looked great, but ran like garbage. after a lot of playing around, cleaning them with scotch-brite pads, etc and not much changed.

how important is the condenser in the ignition circuit? i pulled all the wires from the coil yesterday and the one in the distributor and cleaned all contacts, wire ends, everything just in case. that may have made a little difference because it runs better now. i also re-gapped just to be sure, .015 (haflway between in the .0125-.0175 range they list in the shop manual). took it around my neighborhood, even let the rpms come up a lot in 2nd gear, ran smooth! got home listened to the tailpipe at idle, almost no missing. very smooth. but the engine still shakes a little and hesitates when i give it some gas as idle. checked mixtures on the carb thats alright.

im thinking either the coil is worn or the condenser. this all seems to have started after that first day running it on the road and running out of gas up my street and had to jump start it with my moms car (12V electric system obviously) i thought the condenser blew, threw it out and put in the spare that was sitting in the glove box when the car was in the garage i pulled it out of. how robust are they? again how important are they? actually i dont even know what it does. time for a trip to howstuffworks.com! can i have the coil tested somewhere?

thanks for your help as always!

[Pete O]

The condensor limits current flow through the points to increase their life. The condensor is necessary because the points are opening and closing rapidly, and as they do so the current is interrupted. This causes an electrical arc between the contact points. Over time, this arcing will erode the material on the points and deposit carbon, and eventually the points will not pass current. The condensor acts as a current-absorber to limit the amount of arcing as the points open and close. It is constructed internally like a sandwich of a conductor and an insulator, and it actually stores the voltage for a short time period, and gives it back to the primary ignition circuit when the points close. It's possible for an internal short circuit to happen in the condensor if the insulating layers fail. If a short forms, the voltage through the primary circuit will go to ground, causing a weak or no spark.

I've experienced both condensor failure and vapor lock. When the condensor failed, I wouldn't describe the engine as bucking. It was more like it just had no power at all. It continued to run at idle, but it just wouldn't rev. With the vapor lock, it was more of a bucking sensation, as the fuel flow was being interupted by the bubbles in the gas.

[Gene Brink]

Paul,

Two thoughts. Had a '64 Chevy pick-up truck act the same way - turned out to be a cracked distributor cap. Most frustrating but an easy fix <span style="font-style: italic">once I figured out what was causing the problem.</span> The other thought is a worn distributor. Have it put on an oscilloscope - each spike should be equal distance from others unless the distributor is worn. If worn enough it could be firing way off causing your problem. (Will also show how much spark you are getting to each cylinder.)

Good luck.

[Steve_bigD]

If you see a significant spark as the points open the capacitor might be bad, especially if it is an NOS part which was made years ago. Todays replacement caps have better internal construction and should be much more reliable. Normally a "tune up kit" includes the rotor, points, capacitor and sometimes a distributor cap.

The capacitor forms part of a resonant circuit with the coil primary inductance. When the points are closed (dwell) current builds up linearly in the coil primary inductance and when the points open the circuit resonates and the primary voltage will oscillate up to around 400V peak. This voltage is stepped up by the coil secondary to 20-40kv to fire the plug. The energy stored in the primary is transferred to the secondary and delivered to the plug. The plug damps the oscillation when it fires. So the capacitor resonance limits the voltage across the points and also the current though the points to prevent the point contacts from burning. If the capacitance is very low the voltage across the points will be very high and they will arc.

You should get a nice 1/2" or so long spark when you remove a plug wire and hold it next to ground (use a rag for insulation). It should be bluish/white, not yellow.

Ignition failure when hot is usually the coil which internally shorts when the insulating oil inside it heats up. You might consider replacing the points with a Pertronix SS ignition which replaces the capacitor as well and resides inside the distributor so it will not show. These run around $100 and they also have high output coils available. Make sure you get a 6V coil and that the cap and wires are in good shape. The spark plugs should be gapped a bit wider to take advantage of the hotter spark.

Steve D

[JohnD1956]

The other posts show the need for the condensor. Here's what happened to my dad's 65 Electra once.

During a tune up, we forgot to run the wire from the condensor inside the loop of wire on the breaker plate. The wire from the condensor then got caught on the rotor base and it was pulled out of the condensor. For reasons I didn't know then , but can now see in the other posts, the car ran for about a half day then dropped dead. A new set of points and condensor and a lesson learned on routing the condensor wire and it was good to go.

JD

[Guest ZondaC12]

okay, well i ordered a condenser last night from Bob's, as well as a shifter boot (so the unsightly greasy linkage the stick attaches to can be covered up AND so that hole in the floorboard will be sealed, in case theres any exhaust leaks)

its crappy weather for the next week, so i took it out yesterday afternoon one last time, and she started fine and ran smooth too. again still a bit rough (you can even feel it sitting in the car) when its idling and you rev it up. though if you rev it once and then keep doing it, the subsequent surges in rpm sound (and feel) much smoother. but as i said i played around with the carb and could get this to change. ill probably pull the spark plugs this weekend, too, they could have carboned up or something, who knows. then i just gotta try the new condensor, and see what happens...

[Oxnard Montalvo]

It's been weeks without an update.

Cat got your tongue?

[Guest ZondaC12]

ooooh oops

kinda forgot about it! been cruisin' around too much!

yeah...its kinda weird. whats been going on since i last posted is the following: it starts up great. couple pumps of the gas, flip the switch, crank it over, two revolutions and she fires right up. runs smooth, almost no missing can be heard from the tailpipe or felt inside the car. but when it sits at idle and you go to rev it, it shudders some and i can feel it very well through the fender as i lean forward up against it to reach the throttle arm. it also as a result has poorer throttle-response. if you give it a stab once and then keep blipping it, it smooths out and revvs up nice and sounds great. but that first one seems all gummed up. i played around with the carb, no dice, just went back to what i had and stil have now. no black smoke out the tailpipe, and nothing that would indicate a lean condition (as far as i know). the accelerator pump works well, i can see the jets shooting fuel when i rev it with the air filter off. i dont know how much is supposed to come out of there but a good 1/16 inch thick stream shoots out of both jets for ~1/2 second. also: checked the spark plugs, they look almost exactly like the "normal" image looks like in the Haynes manual we have for my daily driver, curiously enough.

drives just fine. ive had it up to 55-60 mph around here for a minute or two and it was fine. up through the gears fine. 20, 30 40 50 mph fine.

it only seems to like the one set of points i got from NAPA, which only really touch at one point, imagine a wheel, and the lug bolts. imagine only one lug bolt being there. at about that point its like a "peak" i guess in the surface and the points just dont lay totally flat against each other. when i put them in back when i last posted, i opened and closed them several times with a pencil with the tip broken off, so just wood. good but not huge blue spark between them. but cranking it (its cranking fast enough) caused less sparking, rather intermittent too, smaller sparks. today i checked on it and opening them manually was about the same i think, and cranking i saw almost NO sparks, only a tiny one every 5 seconds maybe?

i tried today, hoping for more success, the points i got from CARS. they are not like the NAPA ones, as in theyre NOT both full circles, and only the non moving one is i think the same diameter as the NAPA ones. the moving point on the CARS one is 3/4 the size of the non-moving one and is a solid circle, but the one on the bottom is not, it has a hole in the middle. this set touches PERFECTLY flat/flush/whatever. looked like much more sparking when i cranked it, but it looks like more orangish sparks, and on the side you cant see when theyre in the distributor, and they were shooting out the side or something, but not the blue-white "dot" in the middle of them youd expect. on these it misses more but i got out drving and it was mostly fine, not nearly enough to affect the performance of the car and it felt smooth. i think it revved up a little better too, but im not totally sure. starts up just as good as ever.

im confused as hell and a little frustrated and annoyed. theres variables, im pretty sure on most of the symptoms i described, but not 100%. i was thinking id try ordering a coil from Bob's. $22.50, not too bad right! could it be the coil? i mentioned the difference between the sets of points, theres less contact area with the CARS ones, could that be important if the coil is weak? am i WAY over analyzing this? i really would think points are simple and its not this complicated! but maybe im wrong...seems to happen a lot is there any way to test a coil? as in with a multimeter or something? can you only determine if its functional or not? or can you determine its condition? this car used to run so great, could the coil have messed up between now and then? it has been jump-started from a 12v car within the last month, i did it once or twice, everything else like lights and stuff are fine, running conditions are obviously everything i mentioned above. could the 12v have ruined the coil? this seems so stupid to me, because of how simple this engine is, yet theres a weird problem. of course my mind focuses on the coil, as its the only thing untouched right now!

whew! hope thats not too long for you to read too!

[JohnD1956]

Missing is obviously electrical, but the stumble off idle may be related to carb leakage at the base of the carb. Were you able to get a new carb gasket when you were working on the intake and exaust manifold? If so, try getting a little more tightness on the carb mount bolts. Don't overdo it. You don't want to snap a stud. If not, I would suggest a new gasket to try and eliminate any leakage there. That seemed to do the trick on my 56.

I've heard of spraying something at the base of the carb while it's running and if the engine smooths out you know you have a leak there. Maybe Carb Cleaner? Does anyone have a suggestion on this?

JD

[Guest ZondaC12]

you know, i must admit i have never mentioned this before...i just hoped (and figured) it was harmless and nothing as the car was running so well...the side of the carb is rather wet, on the side facing the firewall, and i think it gets that way when the car is running. i hoping its just this gasket youre talking about and not that it needs a rebuild. i mean...ill do it i guess if its necessary *rolls eyes* but would it be hard with this thing? the most ive worked on is a little tecumseh 5 hp go-kart engine, im guessing this thing has a LOT more parts. and are rebuild kits expensive?

i have always been kind of surprised that its run, that nothing was wrong with the carb! but apparently thart may not be so...

[JohnD1956]

The only thing that could be there to make it wet is gas, and that must mean a bad gasket or maybe a bad float? It could also mean during a prior rebuild someone did not get all the old gasket off so the parts have a small gap. One thing for sure is if it is wet with gas, you have to do something.

[Guest ZondaC12]

well ill certainly look into this, but i agree with you lets also wait for some other opinions, perhaps as to where the gas could be leaking out of.

[Steve_bigD]

If it is gas making it "wet" it could be:

The gasket between the upper and lower bodies.

The gasket between the body and the air horn

The gasket between the carb and the manifold (1" spacer)

The connection at the fuel inlet

The throttle shaft due to worn bushings or shaft

A porous casting

Overflow through the air vent in the top carb plate due to too high a float level

It might also be leaking from the jet covers on the other side and being blown to the firewall side by air pressure when the car is at speed.

The "wet" might also be condensation that occurs due to the pressure drop caused by mixture flow at the throttle plates. This usually occurs in damp cool weather and will dry out when the engine gets to operating temperature.

It is not very hard to rebuild the carb and kits are readily available as long as the castings are sound. The throttle shaft bushings can be re-bushed.

Steve D

[Pete O]

The drop off in the "hotness" of the spark you are seeing between the points while the engine is cranking is due to the diversion of the available voltage from the ignition system to the cranking system. The starter puts a heavy load on the available voltage, and that's normal. But sometimes, if the battery is not fully charged, or if there are other faults in the ignition system, even though there may be enough juice to turn the engine over, there's not enough left to produce a hot enough spark to fire the spark plugs. So it's important that every electical connection be clean and tight to ensure that the most voltage is available.

But you're not having starting problems, so I wouldn't spend to much time in the electrical area looking for the cause of your poor initial throttle response. I'd start with a freshening up of the carb. New gaskets, a good cleaning, and a check of the float level is where I'd start. Good luck and keep us posted!

Pete

[Guest ZondaC12]

i went out for a drive yesterday, was about 86 degrees F outside (those vent windows help! otherwise its HOT in that car right in the sun!) and it started great, 1 pump of the gas, ignition on, 2 cranks over and it fired, seems to be the magic number when its running right so thats what i always go by. went a few miles to my school, to take a picture of it sitting in front of the school with me standing next to it (english project). water temp was just uner 180 by the time i got there. started home, stayed a little under 180 the rest of the way home. i let it idle a minute or so, shut it down, pumped the gas once or twice, started it, started just like it was cold. but it was missing some, more than it should, more than once or twice every few seconds. and the revving problem is still there. it doesnt seem like its there when its cold. i know i said the accelerator pump looked like it was shooting out a good jet of fuel but ignore that, im not so sure. im terrible at observing stuff or the thing isnt consistent, im not sure. probably the former. but im pretty convinced my ignition system is ok. id still consider buying a coil because it still doesnt like that point set from CARS, which has better, flat surfaces unlike the NAPA ones but the NAPA ones run best!! AAARRGGHH!!! doesnt make any sense. but she starts up so well and runs smooth when i first start her.

im pretty sure ill buy a carb kit, but i just want a last opinion. should it do it? cant hurt right?

thanks

[JohnD1956]

Are you going to go to Guptils with it on Monday June 12th?

[Guest ZondaC12]

oh wow! i had no idea when that started and havent thought to look it up! thanks, and YES ill definitely go to that.

about the second part of the title: i looked down the intake and pumped the throttle as if the car was running and as if i was revving it and noticed not much fuel came out of the accel pump jets. if i "revved" it real high to wide open quickly a whole bunch came out, or moving it to maybe 1/4 throttle but QUICKLY, like with a snap of the wrist much more came out. and it got better if i disconnected the pump and pulled up on it a bit first. i looked in my shop manual then at the carb and found two other points for attachment, both "higher" or whatever than the current one, the manual saying the pump travel is increased with them. so i put it on the last one and and did the previous tests and it seemed like much more came out! i fired it up, let it warm up for a few minutes, to the first mark on the temp gauge anyway, revved it some, and trying to flip the throttle again very quickly to make sure it was shooting out a lot, and it came up very nicely. actually even not revving it that quickly it seemed just fine. what i need to do is take it for a good drive, get it nice and hot, and test it again. but i think this may have done it! and i understand now why richening the mixture screws didnt help! i have never worked on a car carburetor so i have never really known about an "accelerator pump" and now i understand its purpose and it looks like it is why it would rev right.

apparently there's also this "float level inspection" scre you undo why its idling and i think ill do that too. is the float level important to this (or anything else too if it could affect other stuff i might as well check it in that case too!)? what other things/mechanisms might i check? or does this situation seem normal, that the accel pump wasnt giving enough fuel so the engine stumbled because it was lean?

[JohnD1956]

Your fix may work, but I doubt it. Go back to the wet side of the carb. Is it gas? If so your leakage may be allowing air to enter the car unregulated by the butterfly valves. This could cause a lot of running issues. But too little gas still ought to provide power to the level of the gas provided. Too much gas will flood it out. But a stumble indicates irregular supply of fuel/ air mix.

Did you try to tighten the screws on top of the carb?

JD

[Guest ZondaC12]

ill try tightening them. i havent really stuck my head in there and smelled it up really close to see but i cant think of what else it would be, as it only appears when the car is run. and i know coolant isnt leaking from the upper hose or something and landing on the carb. ill double check to be sure but im 99% sure its gas.

[JohnD1956]

Were you able to tighten the screws?

[Guest ZondaC12]

i just took a job at a very close-by Price Chopper, friend's dad is vice-president of sales, he helped me get it quick and pick which store i wanted. so ive been a little busy and havent gotten around to it. hopefully in the next couple of days.

probably cant do guptil's either, they have me currently doing 4-9pm mon, tues, friday and 3-11:30 pm saturday. i dont really like it but its all i got and i needed a job.

[Guest sixpack2639]

Hey Paul, new job got you all tied up? Haven't had an update in a while. Hope you're still getting to spend a little time with the old girl. Carl

[Guest ZondaC12]

yes, that and other stuff. been workin' on her too!!!

havent actually been on my computer in a few days, happened to check today! i will likely get a carb rebuild kit soon, but its not super-ultra-important, because she starts and runs SO well aside from that little glitch. on the road at 20 mph, or 30 or even 55 its fine! (brought her to the barber shop, the guy that my mom has taken me and my brother to for years is into cars and stuff and i told him about the buick and he REALLY wanted to see it, so i finally brought it! a good 20 minute drive, about 10 minutes on the highway, not a hiccup!)

also important!!!---i got new brake shoes for the rear wheels from Bob's, put em on, and i couldnt believe the difference in pedal travel. it now probably goes to about 4 in from the floor, before it was like 2 or 3!!!. yeah, they were pretty worn down! the fronts are really okay, i adjusted them too, but on no wheel could i really use the eccentric adjuster nut and the notched screw thing that connects the bottom of the shoes to get even gapping all the way around! its always the shoe is close to the drum on top, and then like a 1/32 to 1/16 inch gap at the bottom! cant expand the bottom screw thing to make up the gap, because then the top of the shoe drags too much up there! though the eccentric adjusters were rusted pretty good (arrgh!!!) and the rear right one would not loosen up. the nut would move, but it too the inner bolt with the tab on the end with it (grabbed the tab with vise grips as with the other wheels, used excessive PB Blaster like the others, but didnt work!) however i could acutally just turn the nut and all and adjust the pads so they moved enough, and the rust will prevent the nut from loosening or anything so itll stay wherever i had it. and i followed my shop manual, turn it in the direction of wheel motion till it drags, then back off till you can turn the drum freely.

but even with the uneven contact she stops good! much better than before anyway! lets just say certainly reasonable for modern driving! you dont really have to "plan ahead" too much and follow far behind others (though i try to anyway).

another important thing: an oil leak ive had for the past three months or so, soon after i started driving it. on the front of the block theres a thick plate that on the front of that the timing cover is bolted. the outer sides of this plate go to the engine mounts on the frame, that is its purpose i guess. well the seam between it and the block (on the rear side of the plate of course) about 2 inches of that seam, starting from just above where the oil pan bolts to the bottom of the engine, oil leaked from there. A LOT. warmed up, when parked somewhere running, it would form a 2 inch diameter puddle in a couple minutes. and it dripped right down onto the lip of the big front crossmember there right infront of the engine, running down the right a-arm, and on the oil pan and stuff when driving, kind of a mess. i bought this "ultra black" silicone stuff says it repels oil very well, temp range up to 500 deg, and smeared it on there good, seems to have done it! so im REAL happy about that.

so everything's really pretty good! ive had her out a decent amount recently, with the nice weather and stuff, man i love driving this thing. im gettin people waving, pointing at me, a guy in a early 90's ford truck pass me on the highway as i was getting off at an exit going home reach out his driver window and give me a big thumbs up, and I waved back. this is what i dreamed of, thoughts of this exact stuff distracted me all year long in school junior year and the first part of senior year, before spring. its a wonder i graduated today with high honors (90 or higher) and perfect attendance all 4 years <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> at times i didnt want to care, i just wanted to get the car on the road and cruise in all day.

[Guest sixpack2639]

Sounds good Paul! Thanks for the update. Carl

[JohnD1956]

Glad to hear about the high honors and your graduation. Another thing your Dad is proud of I'm sure!!!

Will you be joining us at PJ's in saratoga springs on Friday night July 7th?

JD

[Guest ZondaC12]

um i think i remember you mentioning that somewhere? could you refresh my memory? (or tell me if you actually havent yet LOL). ill have to see if i'm working that day or if we have other commitments but certainly a possibility!sounds like fun.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear ZondaC12:

I saw your comment about drifting around in the steering and thought of a strange place to check that can cause these kind of problems. In the rear suspension, there is a locating cross rod that keeps the rear suspension centered up in the car. On each end of it, there is a set of rubber bushings about 2 inches in diameter. These rubber pieces get old and sometimes fall apart. If they're missing or bad, the rear end shifts sideways at unexpected times. It feels like steering problems because it changes the relationship of the car to the road, but it's actually a rear end problem. It might be worth a quick look.

Regards, Dave Corbin