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ZondaC12

Continuation of my 1938 Special thread

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

Paul!!! That is looking so beautiful!!! I remember the pics you posted when you first saw it. Really, it is easy to see the car is loved and you have done a nice job with it. I really hope you can get it registered and insured for this driving season. It will be fun to tour to shows with you.

JD

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thanks for the compliments!

if it maybe wasnt clear before: <span style="font-weight: bold">it is getting registered this spring.</span> no one better try and stop me. m'kay? and its not like the car isnt ready, either. i just need to change the fluid in the trans and rear end, and its completely ready for road use. id about die if i couldnt drive it this year for whatever reason. gonna be a fun summer cruisin around in an old hunk o' american iron

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I use the Penrite lube in trans and rear but found their application chart differed from mfg recommendations for my car.

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yes i seem to recall reading about that, with the bronze bushings etc.

im glad you reminded me though, because a couple months ago i bought a bottle of 80w90 valvoline gear oil at NAPA thinking thats what i was to put in. shocked.gif

http://www.penrite.com.au/nextpage.php?navlink=db/product_pre1980.php so out of that list which one should i use for the rearend and trans? this one guy in the local BCA chapter who has a 38 special told me he uses 140 in his trans, not 90. should i do the same?

also, do you know what distributors carry that stuff? i noticed the company is from australia ( .com.au )

i love the name for the stuff on the front page. "SIN oil", "for people who giev their engines hell". grin.gif i laughed out loud as soon as i read it

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">id about die if i couldnt drive it this year for whatever reason. gonna be a fun summer cruisin around in an old hunk o' american iron </div></div>

Just make sure you don't go the suicide route if something goes wrong smirk.gif I was very disappointed when my '62 Special wasn't ready to drive to Flint...I got over it. It is better to be realistic about safety and reliability than to hurry too much and have problems. Oh yeah, make sure you get a fire extinguisher and keep it in the car.

Keep in mind the above is just meant as advice. I've really enjoyed reading about your progress and can pretty much feel the enthusiasm in your posts. I wish I was able to get in and tackle my projects like you have (competing time interests and unsuitable garage space have limited that). I'm looking forward to seeing your '38 pictured at a gathering with other cars.

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i know...i was half-joking. if, i dont know, a wheel for instance was severely out of balance or rusted so much that i knew it would crack in half or something, i wouldnt drive the thing. i wouldnt compromise safety to get it on the road just because i want to.

and the bit about the fire extinguisher, yeah that might actually be a good idea. who knows, really? but i think theres a good chance im going to get a water-proof cover and keep that in the trunk. as silly as it seems, the doorseals, and side window seals, and some other seals are old and some rotten away, so i really CANT have this car get rained on. if its parked somewhere for a long time and theres a chance it might rain (how can you ever trust the weathermen?) like at school or something, i am running out there and putting the cover on! its kinda funny but ill do it! there are those days that theyre 100% sure its gonna be clear and in a matter of minutes the sky goes dark and soon youve got a downpour. im sure many classic car guys have driven into a rainstorm or one comes to a show or meet, ill bet its nearly impossible to keep your car out of rain 100%, that is if you drive it grin.gif

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Meropa 220 from Texaco (Chevron, Caltex or what they are called over there). It is good for all kind of transmissions and does not hurt yellow metals.

Jan

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Regarding the tapping noise, I too had a similar noise in my 31 Buick that smoothed out at higher speed. It did sound like the tappets, but it turned out to be a rod bearing.

It seems that because the pistons are so small in the streight eight engines, a loose rod bearing sounds very much like a loud tappet. I suggest that you drop the pan and check your rod bearings. It may be as simple as removing a shim to stop the noise and save an expensive repair.

I have enjoyed reading about your progress. This would make a good article in the Bugle.

Mark Shaw

Vancouver, WA

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well thats interesting. i certainly hope thats not whats happening in my case. im 99% sure its coming from the valvetrain. with the valve cover on and the hood open, as i stand there, the sound comes from that area. i think ill get one of those "mechanic's stethoscope" things (or just a wooden rod lol) and use that to pinpoint the sound. but i guess i could pull the pan again sometime and check that out, or at least have a shop look at it. they could probably tell better than me anyway.

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Did you check if the oil channels in the roker arms are stuck? You have to remove the valve lash adjusting screw to clean this channel.

Jan

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i have not done that yet, but that was the <span style="font-style: italic">first</span> thing i thought of when i mentioned what i did. i can easily do that, and that would get oil flowing where i want it most--at those ball stud joints. that might get some of the rods turning, and i'd like that. i would feel much more comfortable driving the car, even just running the engine in my driveway, if at least a few more of them started turning.

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Have been following your progress for quite some time. Glad you are sticking with it. I have a 37 Roadmaster. In reference to your valve stem seals, they can be replaced without removing the head. You can use air pressure through the spark plug hole to hold the valve up while replacing the seals. Bet theres someone who could help you with this. If you haven't already done so you might remove the oil supply line which feeds the rocker and clean it. Its approx. an eighth inch line that runs from the block near the fuel pump to the top of the head. The brass fittings, one or both of them, I cant really remember, are orficed (have a very small hole in them) to regulate the oil flow and thus can plug very easily. Mine was completely plugged when I got my car and of course the tappets were not oiling at all. Hope this helps a little. Good luck, and I hope you'll be cruzin by summer.

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thanks, ill have a look at the line also.

interestingly enough, in the "Ask the Advisor" section of the latest Buick Bugle, someone wrote in with advice about this, for my exact engine (the car was a 49 special). the person said he was told to use air pressure to hold the valves closed, and "a special tool that had a hook on it went in the pushrod hole, and hooked onto the bottom of the hole. an arm of the tool came across the valve and compressed the spring so the keepers could be removed."

he also said the "tool and die maker" who is an expert on straight 8s he talked to told him to buy 1963 chevy six cylinder valve springs and get chevy big block 3/8" inner diameter valve stem seals.

is this a good idea, at least in my case? bob's or kanter or wherever it was did carry valve guides for the 248, should i just get those?

he said "the seal was installed over the valve stem and down over the guide" "the new spring is installed, and now one valve is done". the entire thing took him 9 hours. it was his first time, as was mine, so im guessing it would be the same or more for me. but could someone better describe how the seal is installed? what does a valve guide and a valve seal look like? a small metal sleeve? how is it all put together? also is this "special tool" a valve spring compressor? i have heard the term used before, is it a different tool? i didnt think it would have something going down into the pushrod holes.

this sounds like something i could pull off, and i would feel very good knowing im not burning oil.

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Hey there Paul. The valve guide is metal, and has a hole machined in the center for the valve stem to ride up and down. The Valve guide is pressed into the head, then the valve is installed, then the seal goes areound the valve stem, and over the top of the valve guide. Then the valve spring, then the top washer on the spring and then the keepers to hold the entire assembly together.

That tool discussed is a great idea. It is a spring compressor and it would allow this job to be done without removing the valve head. Maybe someone has one of them and can lend it to you?

JD

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i'll have to find out if someone i know has one. i wouldnt be too surprised if we had one, but also if we dont have one.

just because i want an exact mental picture of the setup: does the valve guide protrude from the top of the head somewhat? thats the only way you could install a seal "down over the top of it", right?

and should i get the guides and seals mentioned in the article? (btw have you received your Bugle yet? good article about the '61s, i couldnt believe the part saying that the pressure of two fingers is all thats needed to close the doors, trunk, and hood shocked.gif. the build quality of that year appears to have been exceptional. i was also pleased to see this blurb pertaining to an issue of mine. what a coincidence.)

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If you are going to replace the valve guides, the head will have to be removed. Valve guide replacement is best done by a shop with the right equipment ...press.

Valve seals, springs is definately something you could do yourself with the right tool.

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well maybe its just the seals anyway. for future reference, whenever i get around to this, is there anything i can look for that could tell me the condition of the guides? should i attempt to shake the top of the valve stem a little and if theres play would that mean the guide is worn? is it likely they are worn? if there are seals up above, are the guides not lubricated? i think that would cause rapid wear, right? well if it ends up that i can pull the rocker shaft, and rods, etc i think i could handle unbolting and (with a helper) remvoing the head, so i the guides need replacing i could find a shop to do it, maybe over the summer or something

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i would like it if someone could further address this issue, which has been talked about above a little bit.

this next week i have off from school, so i think id like to change the rear end/trans fluids. above, Guffin mentioned "Meropa 220" by Texaco. http://www.fammllc.com/famm/lubricant_product.asp?gearoils&&Meropa220 i googled the oil name, found that site. so im guessing the "220" is what i think, a weight. i question this because the manual says 90w gear oil, and i think thats the commonly used one, right? or was this suggested because the trans might heat up and 90w would be to thin? so what about cooler weather driving?

someone else mentioned those Penrite vintage oils too. id like to find something locally if i can. i think there are Texaco station(s) around here, can i get the Meropa stuff at a texaco station?

i also googled "gear oil yellow metals" and found:

http://www.sbcc.ca/tech/lube1.htm

it was very informative. it mentioned some normal 80w90 oils and said they were ok. i went out and looked at the bottle of valvoline 80w90 i bought at NAPA, i was told there it was the right stuff, and examined the back of the bottle. what jumped out: "prevents corrosion" and "MT-1" and "GL-5", those ones on that site--were in the rather long list of specs it says it conforms to. a bottle thats maybe 7 years old sitting on the same shelf in our garage also says GL-5. that site just says to watch out for stuff at swap meets claiming to be a golden bullet and being "the best stuff in the world!"

so what should i do? is the normal stuff good? or should i get that 220 stuff because of the heavier weight? if so please explain why i should get such a heavy weight.

paul

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I've used the Penrite Mild EP Gear Oil in both my differential and transmission for years with no problems.

"Penrite Oil Company Ltd is a well established Australian oil independent. We make special lubricants for the classic car market, for competition and also for modern vehicles. Proudly supplied in the USA by"

Classic Auto Lubes

12803 CR 1222

Tyler, Tx 75709

Ph: 903-561-4858

Fax: 903-561-7177

Email: sales@classicautolubes.com

MILD EP GEAR OIL

"An extreme pressure automotive gear oil meeting the requirements of API GL-4 for moderate load applications.

Application

Designed for use in all steel gear sets in vintage and classic cars and trucks as well as rack and pinion steering systems of 1950's and 1960's vehicles.

It is suitable for use in spiral bevel, worm and pre 1960's hypoid axles.

Also suitable for use in many gearboxes where a mild level of extreme pressure protection is required.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Will not cause corrosion to bronze components. </span>

May be used as SAE 90 or SAE 140 substitute."

lmild.jpg

I'm sure someone else makes a proper substitute that I am not familiar with, but I know this stuff is good. Contact them and see whassup. grin.gif

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oh well there you go for some reason i never found that "sales@classic....." so yeah ill ask them how i can order some.

thanks for the tip.

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Meropa 220 (ISO 220) has the same viscosity as SAE 90 Gear Oil. The EP additives are harmless to yellow metals and this oil can be used even in modern Hypoid transmissions. It has special additives for preventing "micro-pitting" and is therefore suited for heavily loaded gears of all kind.

I also guess that you will pay less for this oil than for any so called "special oil for classic cars". These oils are just recanned oil from some of the large oil manufacturer. However, it may be difficult to buy Meropa in small bottles. Here in Sweden I have to buy at least 20 liter at a time

Jan

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i got the whitewalls mounted today. the place had to patch one tube and use the one spare tube i was given with the tires, because two of the tubes were stuck to the wheels. i have to get some whitewall cleaner, they are a little dirty.

im real happy though, i think it looks real nice with 'em on.

post-39688-143137883248_thumb.jpg

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heres the $29 tachometer i bought from pep boys. took awhile of running the car and trying different wires to get the current to be strong enough for it to stop jittering and work properly, i think because its for 12v not for 6v cars. but it works, and im glad i can finally know how fast the engine is turning.

post-39688-14313788325_thumb.jpg

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