1938 buick special inherited from dad

[Guest ZondaC12]

Hi Collectable Auto Discussion Forum!

Looks like you have a great forum full of very knowledgeable people. I hope youll all be able to give me some good guidance with my project.

I must unfortunately start out on a sad note.

I am 16 years old, and my father passed away in the end of 2003, after fighting a malignant brain tumor almost the whole year. He had 3 old cars he eventually wanted to restore in his retirement when he would have something his job didn't allow: some decent free time. These cars were, a 79 truimph spitfire, an (i guess 60's) triumph tr3, and a 1938 buick special. So, because I have fallen in love with this car, and it meant alot to him, I want to get it running and fix it up.

Please dont worry about me, I don't need nor am I looking for sympathy, my family and I are doing surprisingly well. We are fortunate to have many friends and family that care very much about us.

I just feel I needed to include this preface because it would seem very out of place for a young teen is on the board with a classic in his hands. My dad would certainly not be letting me touch it, it would be his obviously.

NOW, that all aside, Ill talk about the car's condition. My dad had it when he was in high school in the 60s. I dont know where he bought it from. He always took good care of it, he always was very knowledgeable with cars and was very mechanically inclined. The last time it ran was in 1981, when he put it on the road for his sister's wedding, and it was in excellent condition, only my mom tells me he "always had some trouble starting it". After that, it sat up to now in a garage that has protected it fairly well from the elements, though maybe a few years ago im guessing the roof leaked and it was repaired but some moisture gets in there, right now there is ice on the floor in some spots, and in general the floor is a bit wet. But its nowhere near like if it was sitting in a barn or under a tree or something outside. The garage is spartan, not heated or anything, so rusting is slow im sure. All four tires are dead flat. The car has 83k miles on it

Ive posted links to pictures of it. The ones of the exterior--it is COVERED in dusty filth, not rust. at least on the top 2/3 of the car's body, when i rubbed the dust away with my finger, underneath was PERFECT paint/clearcoat. it seems to have protected it. nearer to the bottom, like along the left front wheel well outside there is a straight line of some paint chipped away with some dark rust on the exposed metal, and some tiny bits of rust on other places as youll see.

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/front.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/rear.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/interior.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/sidewindow.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/under1.JPG

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http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/under4.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/under5.JPG

(BE SURE TO MAXIMIZE THE WINDOW they open in! some i kept the size big because you need to see the details!)

The undercarraige/frame i would think isnt all that bad, i know these things were built like TANKS back then, and it doesnt seem like real deep rust, and the stuff that looks real bad is right under the running boards, which makes sense that they would be most worn away. (i just kinda squatted next to the car and held my camera underneath and took pics aiming it at random.) you can also see what i think is the engine's bottom (oil pan) and the (transmission?) which look really nice for some reason?

also the rust pattern on the rear differential is odd. why is it like that?

this is just what i deduce with my knowledge.

(Also: the interior is immaculate! i cant believe it! i figured it would be eaten away by insects and rodents and stuff! just thought id mention this)

im posting here because i would like to hear expert opinion on it and if it is still in good enough shape to be driveable and pass inspection and stuff.

also, i know i should flush out cooling system, check the brake lines & fuel line (if theyre not completely rusted away lol) put wd-40 or something in the cylinders and let it soak before cranking it etc, i just need to know good procedures for how to do all this and other things i may have not thought about.

VERY SORRY!!!! for this extremely long post, but i like to be sure to be detailed. thanks for your time and if this is a reasonable project then i look forward to working on it. (my mom is going to schedule my road test for mid-April, i cant wait to get my license to i can start making trips and morking on this thing!)

THANKS AGAIN!

[BigFella]

Hey!

Sorry to hear about your father.

Welcome to the Buick forum and the Buick world! You have a nice Buick on your hands for sure!

I think the first thing you should do is to join the National BCA and the local BCA. You'll start getting information and be able to see who has this era of car and get some help from the local club. Nothing beats being around Buick people. There is a wealth of information hiding in Buick people!

Collect information like a mad man at this point before you do anything (aside from giving your Buick a nice cleaning!). Older cars have alot of different technologies than todays cars. Get the manuals for this model and read them. This is the step alot of folks miss who join the hobby and they always end up right back at it after a few steps! It will save you alot of time in the long run.

You also need to know that the Buick you have will not run like a new car. It will have a neat personality you'll come to know and love. You'll have to drive it like Miss Daisy is in the back seat for awhile until you get to know the personality. Remember it will never be a sports car or a muscle car as we know them today but is a car with class and style beyond reproach!

Here is a page with some pictures of a '38 that was at a recent event in San Diego.

Buicks at the Big-3

This 38 is also a family car and two brothers own in jointly. It has been in their family it's whole life and was a show stopper at the meet! It seemed like everyone that came by stopped to look at it and comment on it. It won't be long before you'll be the one smiling beside a '38 at a showfield!

Did you know the National BCA meet will be held in New York this year? Another thing you should think about as there will probably be some auto's of that same vintage there in great condition!

Again, Welcome to the Buick world!

[Nick_S]

Welcome to the Board! First, air up the tires and roller her out and wash it!! Buy a service manual or such for it too. The car looks to be in good shape, but pictures can't tell much about the internals of the engine. Your father seemed to take good care of it so the steps you listed are good.(also, i know i should flush out cooling system, check the brake lines & fuel line (if theyre not completely rusted away lol) put wd-40 or something in the cylinders and let it soak before cranking it etc, i just need to know good procedures for how to do all this and other things i may have not thought about.)

I will add get some fresh spark plugs, drain the oil and refill with fresh 30wt, new or good 6v battery, and such. The carb may need rebuilt and don't be surprised if it floods when you try to start it. Check for antifreeze in the cooling system, and if it is at a good level, flushing it out shouldnt be required at this time. Spark plug wires and points/condesor would be another thing to take care of sooner than later.

Those are jsut a few things, dont get anxious and take your time to do it right, as it only costs more to do something the 2nd time. I would recommend you attend the BCA national meet in Batavia this summer, even if you jsut bring yourself! You can learn more than you ever wanted to know and its easier to talk with somebody than looking at text!

Have fun and good luck!!

[Guest ZondaC12]

wow thanks so much! i cant believe how fast you two replied either!

thats really neat that the meet is rather near me this year. i guess im really in luck. i would guess that the engine is probably alright, i know it was in perfect running order, the only thing was again, trouble starting.

but believe me, im not an idiot and i do plan to not rush into this. i am extremely excited but i know i must take my time and resist the urge to rush. i wont hide it, im young and like most teenagers i have made many rather impulsive decisions in the past, but i have learned and this isnt something ill get s second chance easily if i mess up so believe me, ill make sure i know what i gotta do. my cousin is in his 1st or 2nd year in college (wow thats sad i should know which) and hes taking autobody and automechanics i think. he wants to start his own body shop with a couple friends. so theres one person ill be able to ask, plus i already know other adults who will be able to help me and ill definitely be attending that meet!

thanks again,

Paul

oh and BTW i know this thing is gonna drive very different than my mom's 2002 explorer of my dad's 87 cougar LOL. ill bet it wont be a dog though, even though its 107 hp ill bet the torque is pretty good. i also know ill have to learn double-clutch shifting, not to mention driving a stick shift period. i love the HUGE stick coming out of the floor too, itll be like driving a bus or something

[Pete Phillips]

One of the first things I would do is remove the gas tank and clean out all of the old gas, which is probably like shellac by now. There could also be some rust inside the tank, and you want to get that out before it clogs up the carburetor and fuel filter. Drop the tank straps, let the tank down with a floor jack, and unscrew the gas gauge sending unit from the top of the tank, try to pour out any remaining liquid, and then take the tank to a do-it-yourself car wash. Insert the wand with high-pressure water and soap, and go all around the inside of the tank to knock off any rust flakes. Then coat the inside of the tank with a can of gas tank sealer. In my town, the local radiator shop carries gas tank sealer, but most do not. It is available by mail order from Bill Hirsch (www.hisrchauto.com) for about $24 per quart, and it will prevent you from ever having rust problems with the gas tank again.

With your engine and oil pan as clean as they are, I would guess that the engine was overhauled not too many miles ago, so you are probably way ahead of the game there.

You are very lucky to have a pre-War car in such good shape! Best of luck to you, and come back here whenever you need advice.

Pete Phillips

[imported_48Rdmstr68Skylrk]

Paul,

It is nice to see that you are more interested in the Buick than the little sports cars. Something for you to consider has nothing to do with the car. It is the roof of the garage. Try and make repairs so the water doesn't get into the garage. Even if you just get a couple rolls of "rolled roofing" and put it up on the roof to get it water tight. Keeping the water off the floor will go a long way in keeping the rust on the bottom of the car to a minimum. Especially true this time of year with the cool spring rains that will condense on the bottom of the car. Since the garage seems somewhat open, getting some cedar wood chips or blocks will help protect the interior from bugs. A mouse trap or two in the garage will also help keep them from nesting under the seats - they can do a number on the seat padding. Good luck with the 38 and definately join the Buick Club of America. Just click on the link in the left margin of this site for more info. Membership is only $35 per year and you get a great monthly magazine with feature articles, hot-to articles and free want-ads in the back. Also you'll find tons of commercial advertisers for Buick parts and accesories.

[Guest ZondaC12]

oh ABSOLUTELY im more interested in this. actually, my 14 year old brother wants the spitfire to be his. that thing will be a piece of cake--the battery tray is rusted through because the old battery leaked a ton of acid, so i can make a new one, theres just a tiny bit of body rust, mainly its a couple spots and one large one (tennis ball sized) on the trunk, wheels are a little rusty, ill use my dad's bead/sand blasting cabinet for those, and the interior needs very minor work. oh and it needs a new convertible top.

but yeah this thing is one heck of an american classic, and i think its in good enough shape it would be stupid to pass up this oppurtunity.

maybe i made the garage seem too bad. its a bit old, probably built in the 70's i would guess but its in good shape, good thick cement walls, the roof isnt weak, but there was a small leak and as i said it was repaired, i can see a few brand-new-looking pieces of wood, like 2x4 and 4x4 sizes, but ill bet theres just moisture in there from stuff in the air and its winter now so theres melting snow right in front of the door so probably some comes in under the door, also when it rains this probably happens too.

but looking at the pictures, does that seem like bad rust or is there still alot of thick metal still under the surface? it wont be staying there long, like i said ill be pulling it out late april after i have my license, and my mom says it can be at our house as long as i dont turn the driveway into a junkyard full of this thing in pieces ill probably be able to put it in our 3rd stall, which of course, is a normal house garage, perfectly sealed and insulated and stuff.

and ill definitely look into joining that club. i know in the events forum theres a post about a memeber here was able to establish a capital-region of new york chapter of the BCA, so thats really good for me. ill have to PM him and ask how i can join.

Pete Phillips: thanks for reminding me of that, i didnt really think about the inside of the tank. but the gas gauge is all the way at empty so maybe my dad drained it at least most of the way, because i unscrwed the gas cap and i could smell fairly strong fumes. so im not sure what that would mean

[jscheib]

I would definately recommend, if you have not yet done so, to contact John at the Upstate NY Chapter. I am not sure of their April plans, but they are planning a trip to the Rhinebeck show in early May, which you might find of some help, checking out the cars and flea market, as well as meeting their members.

Good luck with the car.

John

[Guest Teamsterdug]

Always great to see another pre-war survivor surface. Welcome to the forum. You will find it to be extremely useful. Don't hesitate to tap into its wealth of knowledge for help.

Let me say this about this particular '38 Special. I see from the posted pictures that it has at least one side mount fender! This option alone is worth big $$$$ I'm sure that the car is worth all the time, money and energy that it will demand. It's been around for 67 years already and I for one am so glad to hear that you aren't planning on chopping it up for modification. These engines will just keep on running as long as they are even slightly cared for. The "hard starting" problem is most likely just related to bad gas, carburetor problems or lack of spark. None of these are that overwhelming to cure. As mentioned already in this thread you should first get hold of a 1938 shop manual and read it! You'll be surprised how simple most of the stuff is compared to today's autos.

By the way the 37-38 Buick club and magazine "The Torque Tube" offers lots of technical advise and is a great source for hard to find parts and services.

First thing first though. I'd say get the tires aired up, pull it outside and start washing it. You will find yourself growing more and more attached to it as the grime and crud wash away. You won't be able to help but feel closer to dad all the while. You will begin to understand why he held onto it for these past 4 decades!

Good luck!

[Guest ZondaC12]

yeah i figured those spare-tire-holding-fenders its got on either side were probably something special. i dont think all buick specials of that year had them (at least from what i can see in photos ive found online). i think the covers might be in thr trunk, but i havent been able to open it! the key goes into the lock on the trunk but it wont turn. i havent forced it, ive been careful opening the doors and such, i dont want to break anything. maybe the lock needs a little wd-40 and itll break loose.

i figured the starting problem would be one of those things. the first thing that popped into my head when my mom said that was "probably the carb mixtures are messed up" believe me i know how these things are simple, just HOW simple ill finf out when i open the hood. (the handles moved, but i couldnt open it, i was pulling out, i have since seen pictures of the hoods open, they go straight up, now i now what to do).

hey i was wondering what does the horn sound like? is it one of those "AAAOOGA" ones? thatd be hilarious

oh and about chopping/modifying, NO FRIGGIN WAY. i wouldnt even think of it. i see some of these just online and on ebay, all updated with todays technology, and they have a big v8 or something in it, come on, the only original thing on it is the body! plus ill bet these old straight 8s sound pretty cool.

[Guest Teamsterdug]

As with anything mechanical that has sat for years... it's best friend is OIL! I'd say squirt a bit of lube (or graphite) in the locks and don't force them. If the sidemount covers and hardware are hiding in the trunk then I would say when you find them put them under your bed!! Those are worth big $$$$ too.

The horns aren't AH-OO-GAH type. There's a high note and a low note horn. Pretty loud too. I believe they used basically the same sounding horns at least through the 1950's.

As for the straight 8 engine's sound.... with the huge stock muffler it is rather subdued yet a bit throaty. There is little doubt that what your listening to is an 8 cylinder as it goes by.

[Guest ZondaC12]

cool. i did notice the HUGE muffler. i guess the goal back then was to make a really luxurious, smooth-riding and -running car.

[JohnD1956]

Hey there ZondaC12...we are both in luck.

That car is fantastic and we definitely would welcome you to the local chapter if you care to join us. The best thing about that is there are several members who have cars of this era and tons of experience too. As John Schieb said we are in our formative stage and since you are also in your formative stage so to speak, it is kinda fate that we get together.

If you want to contact me at jld1972@empireone.net, I'd be glad to give you more information and try to hook you up with the others for whatever information and help you need.

And don't let anyone sneak that baby away from you either. This is a noble thing you are doing for your Dad's memory and I'm sure he would be very excited and happy to know you cared about that car like this.

Looking forward to talking with you

John De Fiore

[jscheib]

I guess I should add that I too feel a kindred spirit. While not the same ages, my father gave me the '32 in 1970. He had the car since 1951 with a bunch of other antigue cars over the years. This was the last one he had. I mostly let it original until I retired in 1996 before I got started on the restoration. So, in a sense, my car is dedicated to him. Intresting that I selected the authentic blue colors for the paint and only later was reminded by my sister that blue was his favorite color. Unfortunately, he had passed before I could finish it.

It will be interesting to see this car flourish. There are a couple of late '30s coupes and sedans here in CT, but for some reason, we cannot get them interested in the chapter, so I cannot offer much help about this particular car. But it looks like you have quite some good advise, already.

John

[Guest]

Hi, ZondaC12 -

Just a few general thoughts on what you're getting involved in here, that you will hopefully find useful.

First of all, you have to remember the most important word: PATIENCE! This wonderful old car will require a LOT of patience from you (which as I remember is hard to find at 16). But it sure sounds like you are wise beyond your years already.

Also, if and when you go to the various Buick Club events or region meetings (and I hope you do!), don't be discouraged that you are surrounded by a bunch of "old guys." At your age, they will definitely ALL seem old. But be patient with them, too. They will be very eager to help you, and see you succeed with your car!

Don't take too many things apart at once! Nothing will make you more discouraged quicker than to get too many things apart, and you will want to give up. Don't let that happen. Get the car clean, and running, and then just work on one thing at a time, and FINISH IT before you tackle the next thing. This is maybe the hardest thing to control yourself on!

Last warning: don't rush yourself. There is nothing harder to resist, say when you are putting something back together, than to hurry up, or "force things," etc. Take your time, be sure of each move.

Looking at your pictures, I could maybe answer some of your questions.

First of all, your "spare-tire-holding-fenders" are properly called "side mounts." Sidemount spares.

Gas tank: from the pictures, definitely follow the advice to remove the gas tank and get it cleaned out good and re-sealed inside. Your fuel lines will be all full of crud, too. They are probably pretty straight-forward to make new ones, and it would be worth doing that. And you will almost definitely want to rebuild the carburetor. That's probably your hard starting, as stated above by someone. Gunk in gas lines, tanks, etc. is the most common reason for cars that have been sitting a long time to be constantly stalling, not starting, etc. and it really gets to be a drag. Do all that work first, and you will be very glad not to have these problems. It takes forever for all that crud to flush out, and it will stop you dozens of times, if you don't do this work first!

The Differential looks like that because it leaked some oil. Where the oily sections were, it didn't rust.

Your rust underneath is largely because of sitting a long time, where water can sit under the car. That keeps everything damp, and encourages the rust. The rust is not real serious, but it's not minor, either. Worry about that a little bit later. After you get things working, you are going to want to spend some unpleasant days underneath there, cleaning and scraping everything, and painting it with a product called POR-15, or good old fashioned oil-based Rustolieum, or something similar.

You will be discouraged trying to get your chrome trim looking good, it is going to be pitted (like little zits). The only real answer for that will be replacement, or getting it re-plated. Both of those are expensive undertakings, and you will want to save that for "someday" down the road, when you have too much money.

When you get everything ready to run; new battery, rebuilt carb, new fuel line and clean tank, new spark plugs (get the right ones) and are ready to start it up, then at that point you need to get someone to educate you about "points" inside the distributor. They will almost certainly need to be filed and re-set.

You will also probably have problems because the electrical ground straps are not grounding good enough, after sitting so long. They will have to be removed and scrape the metal until it's shiny underneath them, so that you can get a really good ground. People will tell you to "upgrade" to a 12 volt system. Don't do it! A 6 volt system worked well in 1938, and if you get everything set up right, it will work just fine in 2005. The 12 volt conversion will cause you all kinds of problems you don't need.

Before you go driving anywhere, just please make sure those brakes are taken apart, cleaned up, and working really well. You sure don't want to learn that horrible feeling of pushing on the pedal, and nothing happens! Take your time here, especially.

I suppose this is enough advise for the first 6 months! Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress!

[Guest ZondaC12]

wow thanks so much everyone! im so glad this forum is full of people so happy to help someone like me who has little knowledge of what to do with this thing.

1964 225 Roadster--thank you for letting me know how big of an undertaking this is. i am realizing how much work this will be and was a little worried as i read your post, but i think i can handle it. i am willing to work at it, as long as i dont have to put a ton of money into it (at least not yet) because in my position thats not very possible. (although my mom says she will help me out a little ) i have lots of very nice tools of my dad's at my disposal and ill would definitely like to join the local chapter, im sure that will help me the most, and i think with all of this i should be able to pull this off

[Guest]

I didn't want to scare you, but I want you to realize some of the most common pitfalls. Those are traps that maybe you can avoid if you have heard of them in advance!

You can do this. You have the motivation, and you can work through it. You will find a world of help with the Buick Club, and on this forum. You will probably even find knowledgeable guys that might come to actually help you with it in person.

Good luck!

[Guest mowog]

ZondaC12...

You're getting good advice, old-car people are very helpful. By the way, don't throw away that TR3, it's a classic LBC (Little British Car). What Triumph was selling when my MGA was built. Anyway, I'm sorry about your Dad. I know how it is, my Mom died from brain cancer recently ... well, a few things I wanted to point out, one of the posters above mentioned the 1937-1938 Buick club. Here's the website URL: http://www.torquetube.com/

Also, a great magazine for anyone in the restoration hobby is Auto Restorer: http://www.autorestorermagazine.com/

Definitely do some searches for a 1938 Buick Shop Manual. Absolutely necessary, although I've found some of the procedure documentation to be a bit sketchy. Check out http://www.prewarbuick.com. There's a note somewhere in there that the post-war shop manuals are more informative, and that it's good to have both. I haven't gotten one of the later ones yet, but will.

You won't have to double-clutch. The '38 gears are synchronized. Your brakes will probably be bad. Brakes always go bad when a car sits a long time.

There's lots of good parts availability for these cars. Bob's Automobilia is great (call them, you'll talk to Bob): http://www.bobsautomobilia.com/. Kanter is good: http://www.kanter.com/. There's a very nice fellow named Al Bell who advertises in the Buick Bugle (BCA magazine) and/or the TorqueTube (1937-38 club mag) who has a lot of stuff, but as far as I know he's not online, you have to call him. Stay away from CARS, Inc!!! Bad! (My opinion, but it's shared by many - there's a LONG thread on here back 6 months or so ago about them).

Your car looks to be in pretty good shape. Especially that interior. I saved your photo for when I get around to doing mine (right now I'm embarking on some engine work). The comments about the gas tank are right on. I just got through cleaning and sealing mine. It had some pinhole leaks in it. About the gas guage, that's another one of the standard things that "don't work" on old unrestored cars. The senders just go bad. I just replaced mine a couple of months ago. Speaking of Auto Restorer Magazine, there's an article on gas-tank restoration in a recent issue (somewhere in the past year) that I went by when I did mine.

Be prepared to have some issues with the wiring. If it hasn't been replaced, the old harness is likely to be somewhat decrepit, meaning headlights/taillights/brakelights may be flaky. Fortunately, it's a pretty simple system. Lots less electrical stuff on these old cars.

I guess I've yammered enough. I know I can speak for everyone here that we're glad you're excited about your car, despite the circumstances. Have fun! Brakes, gas, tires, lights, get it running and get it on the road and enjoy it, and fix the other stuff when you can afford to.

Best of luck,

Dan

[Dave Mitchell]

Hi, Great that you have a fun car and are excited to work with it. The 38s are good looking, reliable and fun cars, and not hard to get parts or info on. I have had a 38 Buick Special 4 door sedan for about 20 years - I am 43 now, so I was just a bit older than you when I bought it. Mine has 61,000 miles and is all original and I know the entire history of it since new. You will find that one thing that will help you is to look at or have photos of a nice original car, and I will be glad to email you photos of mine if you like. One thing that will help you is to take photos of everything on your car before you take it apart. You may think you will remember how something was, but often some detail will escape you because it takes longer to put things back together than you think. Just take lots of photos of the areas that you are going to work on, and then take even more from other angles, because there is always something that you need just off the photo that you took! The 38 is a relatively simple car and I bet you can do a good job with it and have an awesome car. I would say for now to just do what you need to do to make it safe and reliable. Draining the gas tank is a good idea, the gas goes bad quickly and running bad gas into the carb won't help. You may not have to take the tank down and clean and seal it just yet though, if your dad was using it not that long ago, he may have cleaned the tank. You can put a cheap fuel filter in the fuel line either near the tank or carb to catch crud that may be in there for now. The car may have an electric fuel pump on it also, you can look along the fuel line to see and sometimes there will be a filter in them or next to them. You may want an electric pump if there isn't one on the car - mine does vapor lock sometimes in hot weather. If you have spark and fuel, it will probably run. The standard carb on this is a good one and you can buy a kit for it. The barakes are also pretty simple and should work well, but if it has been sitting, will almost certainly need fluid - check to see if your dad switched it to synthetic brake fluid before you add any. If you join a club near you, you can find someone near you who works on prewar cars and talk to them. Most guys will be so happy to see someone your age with a prewar car, they will help you all they can. I have my own restoration shop and deal with this sort of car all the time, so feel free to email me and ask advice and I will be glad to share anything I can with you. I have all the manuals and sales literature for 38 if you need anything before you find ones yourself. I can tell you that I have made lots of great and interesting friends through my car hobby - you will meet car enthusiasts all over the world who are super people from all walks of life. I now have other cars besides the Buick, but I still like it a lot. Good luck and email if I can help. Dave Mitchell, Geneseo, IL packard12s@hotmail.com

[Guest ZondaC12]

great thanks! i checked out those sites, in particular that "pre-war buick" place is loaded with good stuff. im very surprised the gears in this car are synchronized!!! did you EVER have to double cltuch a car? or did they did start putting synchros in cars ALOT earlier than i thought?

[Gene Brink]

Making me a bit jealous. Lots of work but a great place to start and one you should be able to handle. As others have said take it slow and don't over extend yourself. I'd also suggest checking out Matt Harwood's website Matt's '41 where he is documenting his experiences with a '41 Century (close enough to have lots of good advice for you).

Good luck.

[Guest ZondaC12]

my grandfather drove me there yesterday to see what more could be done. im doing this whole thing in baby steps for now, one of our main goals yesterday was to take a can of wd-40 and get the lock on the trunk to turn so we could open it, and get the drivers door latch to retract back into the door when you let go of the handle. its very hard to move and still is, the other three latches are fine. maybe after the wd-40 sits in there for awhile it will free up. you have to turn the handle back and forth right now to slowly get the latch to come back out. we also oiled up the door hinges and other hinges like the hood handles that you turn to open them and the arms that you move to hold the hood pieces open. (i finally figured out how to open the hood! i guess only the top parts open, and the handles are supposed to be turned UP. when i first looked at this thing the handles were up so i assumed that was closed etc)

our other goal was to see of the tires would take any air. i brought up a small 8 gallon air tank we have filled up to 100 psi, and planned to use 25 on each to get them most of the way there and use the good ol' stand-up hand pump to fill them the rest of the way. and......

THEY TOOK AIR!!! my grandfather and i couldnt believe it. oh it looks so much nicer sitting there with full tires! not to mention i can see more under the thing and got more even better pictures.

we also tried to jack the car up and spin the wheels to see how that would be but the 2 ton floor jack i brought just didnt go high enough to push it up on the frame points that seemed strongest in back to get the rear wheels off the ground. i used a point in front of the rear left wheel and was able to get that off the ground and i spun it and there was some resistance and a rubbing sound that i think is maybe the drum brakes? im praying that there are no wheel bearings or anything like that which are shot or completely rusted out or something. there wasnt enough room on the other side of the car to do the other side so i just left the other 3 alone, but i wish i could have spun them to get it sitting on different parts of the tires.

i touched the muffler and it movd around real easy in place and i found a hole in the end and in the pipe connecting to it so the exhaust system will need replacing. those collections of dark spots you see like in the first engine pic are from wd-40 overspray hehe. i unscrewed that cap on the valve cover and shined a flashlight in there to find what i first feared to be dirt and realized it was like grime and grease or something on a spring that was going sideways and on some other stuff i could see. im still worried. why is this? shouldn't it all be wet and oily? i also couldnt find an oil dipstick? i guess ill find out about the internals' condition when i pull the valve cover.

my mom also found the old registration for the car and the owners manual and other papers it came with. there were also a bunch of receipts from repair shops, just about all of them from 1968, just before my dad went to college. with the help of my mom i deciphered the terrible handwriting and found that they say things like "new fuel pump" "replaced brushes in generator" "regulator" "tubes" (im guessing for the tires? BTW he replaced the tires at one point these are not white walls and look much newer) so i guess those are good signs that about halfway through its life so far some important stuff was replaced.

anyway pics are below and thats the chronicle of the latest trip. next will probably be my friend says his dad's friend will flatbed it to my house very cheap so i can really start working on it!

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/carb.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/engine.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/engine2.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/engine3.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/engine4.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/framecenterandmuffler.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/oilpanclutchandstuff.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/tag.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/tranny.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/underneathfront.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/underneathfront2.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/underneathfront3.JPG

http://bb.1asphost.com/ZondaC12/underneathfront4.JPG

[The Old Guy]

WD-40 is a water displacement oil. If you can find some Kroil or PB-Blaster, you will have MUCH better luck freeing up the different parts.

Keep up the good work

[JohnD1956]

Great pictures. They show some details which indicate what work may be required.

First of all, that spring running sideways inside the valve cover is okay. That is a rocker arm onto which the rockers are located. It may appear to have some grime on it but it probably would not look wet and oily regardless of use. I'm not positive about that engine in particular but oil is usually pumped through the inside of the rocker arm and released on each rocker itself. So lack of oil on the small amount you could see should not be a problem.

Likewise the scraping you heard is most likely a brake shoe hitting the inside of the brake drum. While the brakes should be gone over, it should not be a bad wheel bearing making that noise.

What I did see that leads to some concern is a combination of the hole in the exhaust and what appears to be improper fuel line. It looks like the fuel line is some sort of clear plastic tube? I cannot recall clear plastic fuel line being sold. It certainly isn't "original design or equipment" and was probably a replacement for an original steel line, in an effort to prevent vapor lock. Vapor lock is what happens when gasoline lines run too close to hot engine parts and asorb the heat, causing the gasoline to vaporize inside the fuel line which interupts the fuel supply to the Carb. Naturally, no fuel in the carb and the engine stalls. Usually corrected naturally once the fuel line cools off and the gasoline returns to a liquid state.

Anyway, that clear plastic tube should be replaced with a steel line. I imagine that tubing is from 1968 and if you tried to run the car it could break and leak gasoline right into that hot exaust. While this may result in a heat source for drying the garage floor, as well as some neat orange flames, I don't think the garage owner would appreciate the new holes in the roof from the firefighters.

This fuel line should be relatively easy to replace. But do like Joe says. All the NAPA stores in our area sell PB Blaster which is a rust penetrator made from petroleum, as opposed to WD 40 which is designed to eliminate moisture. Get one or two cans of this and hang onto the WD 40 for a time when you'll need it.

Did you get a picture of the gas tank on the car? Given the exceptional condition of what you've shown so far it would be unlikely that the tank is damaged. However it would be good to see if the tank shows any evidence of a leak. Most of these tanks have a threaded plug on the bottom for draining the tank. You should spray that with the PB Blaster for easier removal later.

John d

[Guest ZondaC12]

wow. just wow. i am still in amazement as to the amount of information you all have to offer. and let me tell you im real happy about the stuff youre telling me. everything everyone has said has made me so much more optimistic about this car.

thanks also for mentioning "vapor lock" as i have heard that term before and i didnt really know what it meant. ill be sure to replace that, and ill get that PB Blaster stuff.

i did not take another picture of the gas tank, i didnt think of that. i will the next time i go up (if i do before i have it flatbedded to my house) the only picture i have is the one i posted before. actually while i was looking for a point to jack the car up underneath, i tried hitting the bottom of the gas tank (no not very hard, like when you knock on a door) and ill tell you, it felt pretty solid. im not saying i wont flush it and the fuel line out or something, but i think youre right, the gas tank is probably all right.

one last thing, i saw this wire thing that had a sort of cloth/rubber boot around it near the back of the underside of car and in the middle, and it split off and each wire went to one wheel's brake. are these non-hyraulic, cable brakes, or is that for the parking brake? i thought i saw something like that when i was skimming through the manual.

hey thanks again so far, cant wait until the next chapter meeting, i will be there and ill be able to actually meet some people

BTW ive attached a photo i scanned in that we found in the file folder with the manual, etc. its the buick in june of 1969. not a real clear picture but it shows fairly well that the thing was perfect back then. the registration card from then says it was indeed black, ive been a little worried because of what the dust makes it look like even though i know theres lots of dust. so i really like that because i think this car would look best in black, ive seen lots of pictures and thats just my opinion.

tomorrow ill scan in the other pictures, theyre from '66, and its a couple of my dad with his 1937 YES 1937 buick, i neglected to mention this before, he used to have a 37 one also, but it was in terrible shape and he sold it cheap to some kid a long time ago. from the pictures it looks alright but i think maybe mechanically/structurally it was terrible

[55PackardGuy]

Very nice car! Definitely get the gas tank drain out and see what's in there. If you're lucky, it was stored with a full tank, which is the best insurance against corrosion. After it's empty, put your finger inside the drain hole and see how much crud you can feel. But you really won't know the whole story unless you drop the tank, as they tend to corrode on top because that's where condensation will form when they're not plumb full.

When you disconnect the fuel line back by the tank, also disconnect it at the inlet to the fuel pump and blow compressed air through it until you're sure it's clear. Otherwise, after you clean the tank, the first gas through will contain whatever dirt was left in the line. Also do this to the line between the pump and the carb. The pump itself will probably need to be replaced, and the carb rebuilt.

Some people like to put an in-line filter at the tank end of the line, which prevents any leftover crud from getting into the line.

If you're not sure about the tank after you've inspected it, you can take it to a radiator shop for cleaning which only runs around $50. They'll also test for leaks and can repair as needed.

Clean gas and reliable delivery will make you much happier when you go to start it, and there's nothing that inspires you to work on a car like getting it to start!

Good luck. This is an exciting project.

[Guest ZondaC12]

hey anyone who had trouble reading the picture of the tag with the codes on it (i know i did at least in the picture a little, i took like 10 pics trying to get a non-blurry, in focus picture of it) heres what it said:

the model is 38-4419 (could someone give me a link to a site that tells about the differences between the different denominations of each series (i know the diff. between 40 series, 60, 80 and 90, but theres several denominations and some have subtle differences. i dont know whats the diff between 38-41 and mine, 38-44, as far as i know theyre both 4dr 5passenger trunkbacks. also why the extra "19" on mine?

body 3049

trim 400

paint 520 (im assuming this means black, like i said before i found out this car is painted black)

any other info i should know or would be of interest in terms of these codes i would greatly appreciate

[Guest trevor ward]

Hi...,

Good to read this thread and feel your enthusiasm for the '38

You have received some great advice from everyone so far, and i will

add one thing.... a few posts back up the thread, Dan Bradley mentioned

a long post regarding CARS INC. I have the "honor" of starting this thread

due to being jerked around by idiots.... There are a lot of great AND reputable

vendors out there to have to suffer these fools!!!

I would hate to see you get burned early on in your adventure

I wish you the best luck with your car...

Trevor... '64 Le Sabre.... ready for summer!!! ( the car <span style="font-weight: bold">NOT</span> me)!!!

well...... <span style="font-weight: bold">I</span> am too but that is not what i meant... now i'm waffling

[Guest ZondaC12]

yup i remember that post, once i read it said to myself "well ill make sure to avoid that!" terrible that in every inustry even something as nice as restoring old cars there must be scummy people ready to screw people over

[Guest ZondaC12]

OOPS

i messed up in the post about the metal ID tag!!!!

i looked at it again and where it said "38-4419" is across from "style no" and above is "model" and far across is what looks like "41" so i guess theres no errors there but still whats with the 38-4419 as the style? is it because its the same body as on model 38-44 or something?

[Guest Teamsterdug]

You mentioned not finding the oil dipstick. It is on the right side between your distributor and coil and a bit lower. If you look at your picture showing a shot of the oil pan from underneath it can clearly be seen (directly above the drain plug). It is a short little thing compared to todays dipsticks. In the shot looking down at the battery you can barely see it too.

[Guest AWBE]

I conversely have gotten very good parts and Service from Cars, Inc. Also Bob's is great------There have been a number of people on this forum who badmouth Cars,Inc but as I said I rate them very highly. A number of people on this really like Buick World (or Buick Specialists) out of Washington state. They have screwed me twice and won't get a third chance--I say beware of them.

They finally (after several people on this forum contacted them) staightened out the problems I had with them. the problem was not with the parts---It was their business practices of sending partial shipments ,charging total shipment to my credit card and then feeding me additional partial shipments for 4 or 5 months---as also taking 3 months to refund a core charge.

Their parts are good-----maybe they have straightened out their business

practices.

[groselle]

ZondaC12,

I have some information for you regarding the data plate on your Buick. It all comes from the 1941 Buick Master parts list.

Model 41 is a Buick assigned model number for a 4-door Touring Sedan - Trunk Back.

Style No 38-4419 is a Fisher Body Works assigned number. Obviously 38 refers to the year and 4419 is their style number. For 1938 that is the only style that Fisher offered for the Buick 41 series. However, in 1939 Buick listed two model 41's and a 41C each with a different Fisher style number: 4419, 4419A and 4429 (the normal 4-dr touring sedan, a touring sedan with sunshine turret top and a sport phaeton).

Body number 3049 is a serial number assigned by Fisher. The 3049th body made that year?

Paint Code 520 is listed as Whistler Grey with wheels the same color or optionally Dante Red and a Carteret Red stripe. You can go here to see samples of the colors http://www.autocolorlibrary.com

I still haven't found out what the trim codes mean. About 6 months ago I got a 1936 Buick just like yours (4419). I've slowly been getting it ready to start and last saturday finally got it running. It was the first time in 40 years that the car had been started. You can go to my website below to see some of the things I've done to get it ready to go.

Best of luck and lots of fun with your project.

[Guest ZondaC12]

hey thanks for the info on those codes!

i checked on that whistler grey, it looks to be VERY dark grey, just about black, so thats good, i was really hoping this thing would be black, i think these look best in black. ive attached that picture i promised id send of my dad with the '37, and that one is lighter grey, and i dont really like the way it looks that much. the first one is the full photograph with the border and the date youll see, and the other two i cropped to keep size and filesize down. they are all that same type of photograph, and obviously all taken at the same time that day in 1966, when my dad was just as old as i am now--16.

[Guest ZondaC12]

second pic

[Guest ZondaC12]

third pic

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

ZondaC12,

I've been following this post for quite some time and I'm really glad to see your interest and enthusiasm over this great car. Welcome to the forum and I hope you'll become one of us BCAF "reglars". There's some real rascals on here but most will go out of their way to help. Sorry I don't know more about the 38's.

The pictures of your dad and the car are great. I'd encourage you to post your story and pictures in the Me and My Buick forum as sort of a journal entry. Again, welcome aboard and happy wrenchin with that 38.

[Guest ZondaC12]

yup ill certainly do that. im thinking of doing that once i get it at my house and i can actually step back like 5 or 6 feet and get the whole car in, as its obviously very cramped in that garage, especially on the right side, the car is set a little to the right, you have to turn sideways to get past it!

and i dont care if you know little about the '38s. if you keep following the post then we'll both learn lots as i continue with this project.

[Guest ZondaC12]

he called me and asked if i wanted him to take me to take a quick look and see if the tires still had air in them, since its been almost a week.

the result: theyre still full!!!! needless to say we were both dazzled by this. i probably wouldnt DRIVE on them, but im sure theyll be good enough to winch it onto a flatbed towtruck to bring it to my house