Antique Car Clubs

[Guest imported_PWN]

Hope this question is not too silly, but what is the difference between the AACA, VMCC, and the Horseless Carriage Club?

I am currently a member of the AACA but have absolutely ZERO interest in cars newer than the 1920's or early 30's. The more I peruse the web and the magazine the more 60's, 70's and EVEN 80's (ugh! what the ell!) cars seem to be prevalent.

I mean the Reatta in the AACA? What is up with that?!!!!

The AACA seems to have the most traffic on the web and the most members so that is where I went.

Any thought or ideas?

Peter

Florida

[1937hd45]

I've been in AACA long enough to remember the 1940 vehicle cutoff date. I think the cost of membership dues caused the eligibility year to be bumped up, more members, same dues. HCCA has a 1915 year of manufacture cutoff for "Official" club tours, but allows later cars in local shows. VMCCA was into prewar cars but went the way of AACA. Street Rods have a 1948 year of manifacture cut off. The end result is old cars don't mix with late model cars. Why bring out a nice old brass car when the tow vehicle you bought 25 years ago will now get you on the show field?

[EdA]

I'm always amazed to see fewer and fewer of the pre-1940s cars showing up each year at the Charlotte Auto Fair. I really wonder if the cars are "gone" or if the owners have just "aged out" to the point they can't drive them anymore, don't want to sit outside with the car all day, or feel lost among all the 1950-1970s cars these days. I know the Hornet's Nest AACA group makes those of us with the pre-1940s cars feel welcome and generally we get to park ours on pavement instead of grass like most of the newer cars. And the folks who pay admission still seem to enjoy seeing the older cars, but each year there just seem to be fewer showing up. Even the "trailer queen" show cars seem missing. Where are the old cars?

EdA

[Shop Rat]

Like it, or not, any car that is twenty-five years or older as of the Hershey show is eligible as an AACA antique.

People who feel the way that you do, and you are more than welcome to as it is your right, almost killed our region. Too many of the older people do not want the newer cars, or their owners, and that is not an attitude that will keep a region going. They feel that if it is not a Model T or Model A it is scrap.

Lots of people get the car they couln't afford when it first came out. If the AACA as a whole and regions in general are to be viable they have to adapt to newer cars and younger owners.

And with all the new seltbelt/child seat laws it is easier for a family to comply with a more modern "antique". And I just read where some states have passed laws that children as old as eight will have to be in booster seats with standard seatbelts. The laws do not allow kids loose in antique cars any more than they do in modern cars.

[Guest imported_PWN]

Well, I am still in my 30's and not an "older" member so to speak.

I grew up helping my grandfather with his collection. The newest car in his collection was a 1928 Model A Phaeton and the oldest an 01 Olds. His collection included a 1905 Queen, 08 Franklin Barrel Hood, 22 Chandler, 03 Model A rear toneau, 1926 Franklin Boattail, 1910 Metz, 1914 Model T and a a few others.

I think that being around these cars cemented my love for older cars. There is just no comparing a newer "antique" with a the brass era and prewar cars on any level (etc. personal interest I suppose).

You are correct that it all in the eye of the beholder.

Some of the cars that are currently being restored and collected just boggles my mind.

Kinda funny that my first car (which I still have) is a Volkswagon Jetta that soon will be an considered "antique".

I was just wondering if some of the other Clubs are limited to certain years, etc. so one would not have to wade through the seemingly limitless number of "collectable antique" cars, many of which turn up on a daily basis at ANY mall in ANY TOWN USA.

I realize the cost and difficulty in restoring the older cars, but when looking at auctions and E-bay, the prices of these older cars (pre 1940's) seem ridiculously low, thus are completely approachable for younger and less affluent members.

Times are a changing and who know, maybe my Jetta will be a show winner one day (ugh!).

Peter

[Steve Moskowitz]

Peter, I am sorry that it has taken me awhile to answer your post. There are not many clubs that can provide their members a great publication and benefits while serving a very narrow band of cars. Clubs like the Horseless Carriage Club do an incredible job but they have the luxury of being able to hit their target audience perfectly.

We all have our own areas of interest and certainly need younger people as yourself to get involved in the pre-war cars. Try to get more involved in AACA as we have tours that will meet your needs, a great new magazine and I think mingling with the rest of us will be a great experience.

Thanks for your membership, stick with us, you won't regret it.

[Guest]

*

[Shop Rat]

From an e-mail I just received it seems that we are both wrong.

What I found out was that "The new cars begin at the beginning of the AACA calendar year. This is generally the first week of February at the AACA annual meeting in Philadelphia. It is possible that in the unlikely event of a Florida National meet prior to that time but AFTER Jan. 1 that the date could move up a bit. Techincally though it is done by calendar year and at each Hershey Board Meeting when the VP Class Judging presents the motion to amend the classes to take in the next model year it is slated to be effective when the calendar year changes."

I had asked Bill about this after you raised the issue about it being Jan. 1 and he said that he had also heard that at, or after, the Hershey show the new year was accepted. He couldn't remember which it was. And since we usually judge in the 38-39 and 62-63 eras we did not pay that much attention to what the last year listed in the book was. Not sure where the rumor of it changing at or after Hershey got started, but we both understood it to be that way.

So it is usually about a month after Jan. 1 rather than at or right after Hershey.

I don't mind being wrong in this case. It was an honest mistake fueled by misinformation given to Bill and I, and I am sure many others, as fact.

But you need to learn to be more pleasant when you tell people that they are incorrect. There was only one person who never made a mistake and they put him on a cross.

[Guest imported_24Chry48]

I joined the AACA many years ago, and seem to remember that at that time a vehicle year was admitted for acceptance every two years, instead of allowing a new model year in each year. It seemed very logical to me, as it seems we are stretching the term "antique" when we refer to our cars. I also prefer pre-war autos and although I am interested in several "newer antiques" I do not consider them with the same admiration that I do for much older cars. If one year model was admitted every two years, it would at least slow down the glut of newer cars in the club. Did we used to do it that way, or am I remembering wrong?

As for the lack of older cars at shows, it is mainly because we fear for our lives on the modern race-tracks of highways.

Greg Biskey

AACA, WPC, ACA

[R W Burgess]

Peter, Please ignore our little family squabbles, as in fact, most of us are like family here. As far as the Reattas you mentioned, our forum is actually open to support any automobile organizations interested in joining us. It's nice when you don't have to go hunting throughout the web loking for an interesting car group to converse with, most all of them are here.

Reattas are mostly young people and they're very active. On the other hand the Classic Car Club may go for days without a post. This just shows the diversity of our web site, so just go to the car forum you're mostly interested in, but venture out every now and again to the other clubs to test their waters.

I find the Packard club interesting, as they're always up to date with the latest advances of fast fixes for their cars. Their oiling system remedies are quite good and a worthwhile read.

Welcome and visit often. Like Steve said, "You won't be sorry!" <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wayne

[Guest imported_PWN]

I am planning on remaining a member. I have learned a lot from the website and have talked with many folks that have helped with my car.

The frustrating thing for me is the lack of folks in my area (Gainesville, FL) who dabble in older cars. I am really looking forward to the Regional event here and hope to meet some folks in the area.

I have talked with one member from the Gainesville/Ocala area who basically said; I was out of my league and probably did not have enough money to do the work "correctly".

My history with my Grandfather has taught me a lot about old cars,and one thing for sure, you can not hurry a fix on some of these irresplaceable old engines.

One of my Grandfathers cars has graced the covers of the AA. My Chandler was on the back cover of a 1967 edition (with a great article)and one of his "early" finds, a 1906 Adams Farwell, was on the front cover of and old issue of Bulb and Horn.

Hope to meet some of y'all at the Gainesville meet.

Peter

[nearchoclatetown]

Peter, the list of car you have experience with is quite impressive, and the Ocala area is one of my favorites in Fla. There is a very diverse group here that I'm sure you will learn from. You've got one of the best sources of info right in your neighborhood with Mr. Garlits. He could teach us all a few things.

[Twitch]

24Chrysler48 guy- yeah, a 25 year old car today doesn't seem classic or special to us today at all!

Here's my thoughts on this without regard to official rules- In 1958 as a 10 year old kid I thought 1932-40 Fords were cool- stock or modified. But the 1940 was just a cool old car. The 32 was just an older neat car. Nobody was interested in restoring or rebuilding common cars in the 1950s-60s other than hor rodders. Pierce-Arrows and Dusenbergs were considered special, not Plymouths or Fords. There were very few folks messing with common cars then. In the 50s-60s we considered Cord, Auburns, Dusenbergs and high end limited procudtion cars as classics not Nashs, Remember? The word classic was never ever used unless it was to define an expensive, vintage motor car.

All this is relative to your age as you move through time. An 18 year old 1940 Ford in 1958 was NOT special at all other than the fact that I liked it. 47 years later it's pretty rare and still cool. An 18 year old car now is a 1987 model and not rare at all. Is a 1980 model?

In the 50s-60s 25 year old cars were not a big deal. Compared to now we were awash in "old cars" then. In 1965 you could still buy an "all there & running" 1940 Ford coupe or 2dr sedan for $175! And that's just Ford. How many of other makes were floating around out there?

To a 10 year old kid at a show today a 1980 Firebird restored or kept in like new condition is a thing of rare beauty. A cool 1940 auto is positively archeological!

If an auto organization specifies in its charter that it accepts "only autos of less than 10,000 unit production quantities made before 1931" fine. That's very black and white. If another has a rolling 25 year classification rule for acceptance then it is clear that the 1980 Firebird is legal.

I like all kinds of cars from bone stock 1935 Chevies to 50s lead sled customs to musclecars/ponycars to exotics like the new Ford GT-40. I can appreciate what went into the restoration of a perfect 1937 Ford Cabriolet or Boyd Coddington's rendition of a radically modified 1937 Ford Cabriolet. Both are equal in appeal to me. I have no predjudice in the fact that a 3rd 1937 stock restored car used many modern reproduction parts to acomplish the goal of getting it on the road or to a show where some kid can marvel at it.

My 1973 Z-28, which I never considered anything other than a plain old "car" was one of just 11,000 and is now 32 years old and is being put back into like new shape. As a kid in 1958 a car 32 years old was a 1926 model!!! Did folks like to look at 1926 cars in 1958 at least as a curiousity? Sure, but they don't have the awareness or interest of folks today.

All these cars of times past, yes, even as recently as 1980 are part of the history of the automobile. If there are examples of the rotten (my opinion) cars of the 1980s they too deserve a place of distinction in the anals of autos. Musclecars were a distinct definition of certain autos that stood apart from the rest. This weeekend at a club cruise I pointed out a 1966 Charger fastback to my wife say it's relatively rare though I don't care for it. But it was a kick to see it again. I can remember when they were hauling azz on the streets of 1966. And there are plenty of folks alive that can still remember when 1940 cars were commonly driving around daily without fanfare like background for a nostalgia movie today.

1901 curved dash Olds and 1964 1/2 Mustangs both are equally historical. Never mind quantities of manufacture. They both contribute to the interest of the collecting hobby from a historical standpoint.

With today's media more people WORLDWIDE can enjoy the "old car" scene as they never could in the 50s-60s. Ha! Someone in China can key into this very website and see YOUR or my classic or antique car and admire it! Classic car auction on satellite TV. Ha! the 1957 Sputnik was still the gleam in some Ruskie's eye in the mid 50s! And a car auction in Philadelphia couldn't be viewed, much less participated in, on a spectialty TV network or computer in say 1965.

Society and technology is far different than it was decades ago. Model As and such basically were scrap for most part. Who on earth beside a few

would want to mess with an old heap like that as the post-war industry introduced automatic transmissions, air conditioning, power windows and accessories in powerful, attractive packages? Unless you were lucky enough to have everything needed locally in 1965 you couldn't find parts for the 30+ year old car you were fixing up. No 2¢ per minute long distance, no internet, no Ebay. Unless you got hooked up with the almost underground movement of antique car nuts' limited publications you were out of luck.

This is the peak of time of the automobiles' existance. Today most everyone knows the score. Cars will simple appreciate in value, no matter what they are. In the world market of portfolios and investments folks are savvy to what old cars have to offer. They escalate in value and can be interatcted with in a pleasurable, unique, active way unlike a painting hanging in your den.

Autos appeal to everyone at showings. Unlike the high brow atmosphere of art shows full of pretentious people, car shows allow all participants to be knowledgable afficianados with input.

If the pre-war cars are thin at shows now, they'll probably be back to be enjoyed. They'll simple have to share the floors with 1964 Impala SS convertibles and even newer stuff. Is is a bad thing that a car show has too many cars? For the auto hobby to continue younger people need to become interested. They can relate to cars just 25 years old in many ways than they do to even cool cars from the 40s-50s. They rode in them as kids. They recall them in daily use as many of us recall the ones from the 40s-50s the same way.

Age of cars, and people, is all relative to the observer. Let's remember that when we scoff at some 25 year old guy's ONLY 32 year old car at a show. That would have been a 1923 or 33 'Something' in 1955 or 65!

[R W Burgess]

RE;" <span style="font-weight: bold">I have talked with one member from the Gainesville/Ocala area who basically said; I was out of my league and probably did not have enough money to do the work "correctly".</span>"

Peter, I wouldn't pay any attention to a comment like that. I've seen many very nice cars restored within a minor budget that looked just as good as a "shop" job. You need to go to more of our local shows and get to know more of our members. Wayne

[Guest imported_PWN]

Thanks for the info Wayne. I am in the process of determining the need for re-babbiting the rod big ends, or going with inserts, or.....? So far one bearing is bad and the rest look fine. Three were replaced in the past with bronze backed inserts and three appear to be original. A bronze backed insert is the bad one.

I need someone to hold my hand.

[R W Burgess]

Lets see, you live in Florida. I'm in Virginia in the wintertime. You got a free room, Guy? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> The wife and kids can be on their own! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Wayne

[Guest imported_PWN]

No problem! My wife and I will set you up!

I was just complaining to some bike riding buddies of mine (we ride offroad at night after work), that this COLD weather is killing me. I mean 50 degrees tonight!!! That is a 25 degree drop from this afternoon. How bad can it get?

A Florida boy trying to stay warm.

Peter

[Shop Rat]

Never ask how bad it can get. It can always get worse.

[Guest imported_PWN]

It could get worse like two Hurricanes in my backyard!

The weather is very nice here, I was not complaining - just TRYING to be funny.

Take care.

[ronbarn]

24Chry48, You remember correct - For a period of time AACA was firm that no car after 1935 would be accepted. Then there was a move to include some newer cars and a bunch of years were added in a lump (I forget how far it went at that time). Then the decision was made to add one year eligibility for each two years passing. That policy did not last long due to the pressure from members. Since most states used the 25 year rule for antique tags, AACA finally decided to adopt a similar rule.

[novaman]

Peter, I like you am one of the "younger" ones on here. I'm 38. All I can say is, my hat's off to you for your love of the older brass era cars. I have a friend I went to school with that she and her husband show a 1914? (might be a '12) Maxwell. I know there is a lot of extra work that goes into maintaining those cars.

I'm into the late 40's and 1962-1965 Chevy II cars. My Dad had a '49 Willys Jeepster and I have 3 '63 Chevy IIs. Dad sold his Jeepster and got a '63 Chevy II convertible. He got to the point he couldn't handle the clutch with his bad leg plus Mom couldn't drive it either.

[Twitch]

Hey Novaman. I got a 65 Nova that needs LOTS of work. Have you noticed that sellers of the repro parts skip the 1965 model year on many parts? I wonder why? They may list, I dunno, headlight bezels for 62-64 67-68. But no 65. Weird.

[novaman]

Offhand I can't think of why they'd be differnet than '64. Fender is the same except for the pocket for the parking lamp since the '65 Parking lamps are in bumper. I haven't had a '65 to really compare. Would love a '65 wagon AFTER I finish my 63 wagon and 2drht cars.