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What does the AACA consider to be a "classic car"?

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I'm active in another forum where someone stated that the AACA uses the term "classic" car very selectively. Is this true and what are the AACA's different classifications for cars?

Many thanks in advance for your insight and help.

Best,

Douglas

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R W Burgess 25,000+ Points

R W Burgess

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Hartmann Hits again!!! Douglas, we had one individual who jumped on everyone who didn't use the word "Classic" correctly "in his mind". The Classics are considered the best of the best large prestigious cars of the 20's and early 30's. Don't let the word scare you off. We invite anyone to join, as our forum has many insiteful, intelligent people who help everyone in need of antique car information. Wayne Burgess

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Guest BruceW

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Most individuals tend to use the term "classic" rather selectively. Typically in day to day goings on I tend to agree with PackardV8 in regards to the use of the term classic. However, to answer the question in regards of the AACA organization, below is the information listed in the judging section of this web site on what the AACA classifies as "Classic" for judging purposes.

SPECIFIED CLASSIC VEHICLES (Classes 18d, 18e & 19)

Alfa-Romeo, Alvis, Auburn 8 and V-12, Bentley, Bugatti, Buick Limited (through 1948) (Series 90, 1931-42), Chrysler (1931-33 Imperial Models CG, CH, CL, CQ and 1930-42 Derham & LeBaron), Cord, Cunningham, Daimler, Delage, Delahaye (1938-42), Diana (1925-1926), Duesenberg, DuPont, Frankin, Hispano-Suiza, Hosch, Isotta-Fraschini, Lagonda, Lancia, LaSalle, Lincoln (not Zephyr), Lincoln Continental, Marmon (Model 88 & Big 8), Marmon Sixteen, Maybach, Mercedes, Mercer, Minerva, Nash (1932 990 Series), Packard Darrin (except models 110, 115c, 120 & Clipper), Packard Darrin 120 Series, Peerless V-16, Pierce Arrow, Rohr, Rolls-Royce, Ruxton, Stutz Invicta, Talbot.

The entire list of vehicle classification for AACA judging is too long to list here but you can find the complete list in the Judging portion of the website:

http://www.aaca.org/judging/Section3.htm

Hope this helps.

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are you sure... I just re-read your list:

SPECIFIED CLASSIC VEHICLES (Classes 18d, 18e & 19)

Alfa-Romeo, Alvis, Auburn 8 and V-12, Bentley, Bugatti, Buick Limited (through 1948) (Series 90, 1931-42), Chrysler (1931-33 Imperial Models CG, CH, CL, CQ and 1930-42 Derham & LeBaron), Cord, Cunningham, Daimler, Delage, Delahaye (1938-42), Diana (1925-1926), Duesenberg, DuPont, Frankin, Hispano-Suiza, Hosch, Isotta-Fraschini, Lagonda, Lancia, LaSalle, Lincoln (not Zephyr), Lincoln Continental, Marmon (Model 88 & Big 8), Marmon Sixteen, Maybach, Mercedes, Mercer, Minerva, Nash (1932 990 Series), Packard Darrin (except models 110, 115c, 120 & Clipper), Packard Darrin 120 Series, Peerless V-16, Pierce Arrow, Rohr, Rolls-Royce, Ruxton, Stutz Invicta, Talbot, Nissan, Opel, Honda, Chevy Vega '73-'77, Ford LTD, Morris Minor, Ford Pinto (all years),Dodge K-car, GM X-bodys (all), Teico, Ford Feasta, Pontiac Firebirds, GM Hummer, and Amphipcar <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Hi Bwana !

I am the vicious "Hartmann" these guys are making fun of. Since they brought my name up, perhaps you won't mind if I put MY "two cents" in here too, to defend myself.

Perhaps the BEST and most satisfying answer to your question, is to ask YOU a question.... ?

Why do you CARE what ANY organization says about use of the word "classic".

IT IS A FREE COUNTRY. Call what you like...what you want !

If you have found an old something-or-other that you like, that pleases you, and meets YOUR needs, why even THINK about what someone else says...if you like it, and you like the word "classic".....call it what you want !

I challenge you guys..I DARE you...to go into a big book store..ANY big book store (such as the big chains like Barnes and Noble) and go over to their "transportation" section...and find a "WHATZIT" or a "GIZMO" that is NOT called a "classic". You will find people calling their favorite farm tractor "classic"....their favorite soup kettles "classic"...air-liners, delivery trucks.....gas pumps...etc...etc...etc.

While delivering a heavy load, coming down the I-17 grade, I pulled off at an intersection, to let my brakes cool. I went into a fast-food shop, bought some "classic chicken"...and washed it down with a "classic coke". Over on the other side of the mini mall...was "classic plumbing". Parked outside was a Chevrolet Caprice Classic. There was an abandoned wreck (Rambler Classic" off to the side.

The word "classic" is now a full fledged religious obsession. Fewer and fewer people are capable of forming a sentence describing something they are trying to sell, without including the word "classic". It is getting un-natural to talk about an old car without using that word...c'mon.. I DARE you guys....find someone who is not so obsessed with the word...that they can control themselves...and NOT use it...!

Pete Hartmann

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your right Peter, we need a new class....

From now on, all my cars are "Deluxe Classics, Super Wagons"

DCSW

There are two classes: Pre-72 1/2 DCSW, and Post 86 3/4 DCSW....

The 14 years omitted is to keep the unworth OUT!

Ok, I'm editing this post as I think up so rules:

1. Car, boat, or Toaster... no Blenders, or mixers.

2. Must hold at least three quarts or oil.

3. Furry dash pads in tiger print only.

4. No tee-shirts for seat covers.

5. Walmart after market hub caps, 3 wheels covers required.

6.

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Amphicar BUYER 10,000+ Points

Amphicar BUYER

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I DARE you guys....find someone who is not so obsessed with the word...that they can control themselves...and NOT use it...!

</div></div>

Pete,

Seems you are most obsessed with it.

"Classic" is not a specific term reserved for just for the CCCA's cars, or any single class of autos either. The term "classic" is properly used for numerous other categories. It is a general term that encompasses many things. Even my Amphicar is a true "classic", why? Because of it "Having lasting significance or worth; enduring"

Basically it menas "The best of ____" This is not opinion, it is per The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language.

So, enough of trying to tell us the word "Classic" has only one place in the english language. The CCCA does not have ownership of the word, they only have THEIR interpretation of it in THEIR context.

John

[color:"red"] <span style="font-weight: bold">clas·sic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (klsk)

adj.

Belonging to the highest rank or class.

Serving as the established model or standard: a classic example of colonial architecture.

Having lasting significance or worth; enduring.

Adhering or conforming to established standards and principles: a classic piece of research.

Of a well-known type; typical: a classic mistake.

Of or characteristic of the literature, art, and culture of ancient Greece and Rome; classical.

Formal, refined, and restrained in style.

Simple and harmonious; elegant: the classic cut of a suit; the classic lines of a clipper ship.

Having historical or literary associations: classic battlefields of the Civil War.

n.

An artist, author, or work generally considered to be of the highest rank or excellence, especially one of enduring significance.

A work recognized as definitive in its field.

A literary work of ancient Greece or Rome.

classics The languages and literature of ancient Greece and Rome. Used with the.

One that is of the highest rank or class: The car was a classic of automotive design.

A typical or traditional example.

Informal. A superior or unusual example of its kind: The reason he gave for being late was a classic.

A traditional event, especially a major sporting event that is held annually: a golf classic.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved </span>

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not to over rule your amphi-ulous view of the world as you see it, but the "dry landers" who stick their heads out of their CCCA forum to bug the crap out of the rest of us, feel that the "word" means this:

"One of the most common questions asked on this Web Site is: "What exactly is a Classic Car?" The Club defines CCCA Classics or Full Classic? Cars as "...fine or unusual motor cars which were built between and including the years 1925 to 1948. (Some cars built prior to 1925 that are virtually identical to a 1925 model that is recognized by the Club are currently being accepted on a "Please Apply" basis). All of these are very special cars which are distinguished by their respective fine design, high engineering standards and superior workmanship." They were usually quite expensive when new with relatively low production figures. You won't find your Mom's '72 Plymouth Duster or your Grandfather's Model A Ford in the ranks of CCCA. We applaud other clubs who do recognize these cars and recognize that owning one can be a lot of fun, but they are not what CCCA is all about. "

My real question is who were the "ones" who created the list? Was it Mosses himself, who drove down the mountain in a Packard pulled by Hebrew slaves with stone tables?

I like to see the Bio's on the people who made the list, and who now can add cars to the list....

Note, the new Nissan 350zx is a "instant- classic".

Who, approvel that?

When I say "i would like to know", what I'm saying is "I don't care, If I did I'd be in the CCCA".

So please, go back an post in the CCCA! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Amphicar BUYER 10,000+ Points

Amphicar BUYER

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not to over rule your amphi-ulous view of the world as you see it</div></div>

Tommy - I hope you're not thinking I am in the CCCA? I am not affiliated with them at all. My lowly Amphicars are not "classic" enough for them (in spite of your earlier list <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />). <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> From what I have seen (Just my opinion), it seems they are a bit too pretentious for my tastes. I only wanted to point out that "Classic" in a general term, not owned by the CCCA and it's members.

You pose some good questions, I would like to know myself. Who decided and how did they come up with their rendition of a "Classic". I guess the question itself has now became a "CLASSIC" <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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6219_Rules 5,000+ Points

6219_Rules

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John pointed it out correctly, The word 'classic' means something that has an enduring significance. The word "Classic" is used in more specific contexts but again carries the same meaning. The CCCA was founded to restore and preserve cars of a particular era that were being lost to time and apathy. They have a unique application of the word, to the point that even members argue over its use. My 1947 is barely a Classic...in that is the last year they will accept in their club. It is a classic because of its place in the history of the automobile and GM

.

The word has become an affectation used by marketeers to push their products to a public tired of crap, which is about all you get now. "Classic" has become the label to mean 'that which is not crap...but acts like it cause we can't make our profit margins if we give you something of value". I have used the word with a capitol "C" to indicate a specific meaning, almost invariably within the context of the AACA or CCCA. However, I will use the word "classic" to refer to something with that general meaning and appropriate value. The English language is both extremely variable, and subtle. It is as descriptive as any language on the planet.

Thanks for participating...your Classic Pain in the A**.... Randy <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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Just to muddy the water some more, the CCCA considers 1929-33 Studebaker Presidents "Classics" under their rules but the AACA does not??? Since the CCCA conjured up the term Classic for their group of cars first, on what basis does the AACA deviate from what ever quality the CCCA considered in the first place?

I used to be biased about the discrimination at AACA meets, but I sold my President so now I am neutral. Stude8

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Surely you jest in putting the etymological onus about the <C> word haphazardly upon my unwilling shoulders.

I've always considered that to be your special province as been made unarguably manifest in many past encounters here.

Not only do I not give a damn about what constitutes CLASSIC, I am not even a member of any organization that uses that word in any context whatsoever.

I DRIVE my cars, such as they are and have not shown any in about 10 years and could give a rat's ass about specious definitions.

Therefore marshal your facts before putting finger to key in evil hour, and as I advised another faux gadfly poseur,{which I do not consider you by the way} for heaven's sake be nice!!

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6219_Rules 5,000+ Points

6219_Rules

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I just love a man with a vocabulary!! Would that mine were so polished. I feel the same about my Cadillac (the 47 that is). I was just saying on another thread that while the car is a CCCA recognised Classic <hehehehehe> it is neither valuable monetarily nor desirable from a collecting stand point, as I have been reminded so often. Well screw 'em. While my opinion is like canine excrament of the heel of PH, I still think it is a beautiful car, a lot of fun to drive and a joy to own. And if the chrome and paint aren't perfect, too bad. The Flying Dutchman is a marvelous car, 55 years old, and still going strong. Nyah! :P

So Bwana, I would still love to see your cars...they sound marvelous too. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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Thank You, Randall,

Such praise coming from one of the most literate and well spoken members here is much valued indeed.

When provoked I become verbally vindictive, I must control this.

My cars,which I do not consider a "collection" as such, are, like some thinking humans,in a constant state of evolution with a few exceptions that I have good reason to hold on to.

My focus has changed from large, powerful American sedans to embryonic, primarily British sportscars.

I'll buy one, fix whatever I find fault with, drive and enjoy it and eventually sell it, "trading up" or parlaying that into something else I find interesting and would like to own.

Perhaps some of that is the endless search for "perfection" in a mechanical machine and maybe another component,that I have no desire to scry too deeply into is the more personal one of not being able to supply the inner emotional security to be satisfied with less,if that makes any sense.

Regardless, I'm having a hell of a time doing it.

<img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Peter J.Heizmann 10,000+ Points

Peter J.Heizmann

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Howdy, Wayne...possibly P.U.I. (Posting Under the Influence)??

(I hope not, or, before we know it, the Government will mandate that the Internet enforce similar D.U.I. laws. Can you imagine the day that the Internet must lower it's .10% P.U.I.-to-.08% P.U.I., or, they will slowly "snip" the nations's phone lines until we comply.)

Just kidding...

I believe what he is saying is similar to the early years of many of us. Buy your first starter house, sell it in time, move up, sell the 2nd house, move up??? Who knows.

Regards, Peter J. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

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Dave@Moon 25,000+ Points

Dave@Moon

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...If you wan't perfection I drove it 3 years ago. Aston Martin DB5. A superb example of British motoring I aspire to own. </div></div>

A few years ago I got to spend some time inside a friend of mine's 1980's Aston Martin Lagonda sedan. If you ever want to see a car that screams for dropping the 1948 cut-off date for "Classic" consideration check out one of these babies. There as impressive and remarkable as any Duesenberg! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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Restorer32 25,000+ Points

Restorer32

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Shoot, even my 1932 Packard 900 Conv. Coupe is barely considered a Classic by the CCCA. While I tend to agree with their list of "Approved Classics" and admire their goals I can't help but notice the lack of participation on their Forum...Wonder if their membership is growing, stable, or declining ?

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Is there ONE of you guys who is just a bit embarssed about nonsence that gets "posted" in these forums... ? C'mon, guys, what's WITH some of this stuff..? We have guys telling us '52 Packards are as fast or faster than the GM cars of that era - we have guys going BALLISTIC when silly statements like "route 6 goes to Santa Monica.... and now we have "the Classic Car Club is a closed society whose meets are not open to the public.." or tells OTHER people they cant use the word "classic".

Guys, do you ALL have a reading disability ? Look over my above post of 9:22 @ 6:42 AM. The only people who want to "boss you around" and tell you what you may or may not say, are the "religious nuts" who are so obsessed by the word "classic" they simply can't form a sentence without it....about some old thing they want to sell you.

True, the Classic Car Club Of America only recently got the idea of running public paid events. It would have made no sense until relevantly recently.

Reason ? The idea of saving and operating the largest, most elegant luxury cars of the classic era (roughly 1925-1942) was something that seemed silly, even sinister, to most people.

You younger people do not realize how much our culture has changed. The distaste, even hatred, for the arrogant symbols of power that the REAL big classic cars represented, was expressed in a number of ways. Look at some of those old TV programs, where the idea of having a big old luxury car was considered silly, or even sinister (my favorite is an I LOVE LUCY segment where she demonstrates what a ding-bat she is...by coming home with a '32 or '33 Cad. V-12 phaeton !).

The idea that the general auto public would WANT to look at our cars, could not possibly have occurred to us in the early years of the CCCA.

I remember my shock and puzzlement, in the mid 1950's, when a restaurant owner told me it was O.K. for me to park my '38 Packard V-12 limo. in FRONT of his restaurant - by then, the Classic Car Club was starting to get some initial success in making people aware there was something worth saving in these magnificent "road locomotives..engineering exaggerations magnificently over-done"..

Why, the MINT MINT MINT Cad. '38 Cad. V-16 Formal limo that I paid $75. for in late '54, by '57 .....heck..its value went so far up..appraised at over $500!..

That will give you an idea why we didn't try to hold "public" car shows.

But "the CCCA is closed"...c'mon...man...our events, from the start, were typically held at public places, on public roads. We THEN and NOW love to meet new people and invite them to join our Club. I do not recall it EVER being a requirement that you must own a so called "approved" classic to be a member.

What we DO ask, is that the newer members try and educate themselves as to what the whole idea of the classic car is all about, and not try and use our Club for a used car lot.

Of course we were successful beyond our wildest fantasies in getting people to like the word "classic"... we obvously werent as successful in getting people to understand what it means (see my "POST" above of yesterday (9-22 @ 6:42 am).

But again..it's a FREE COUNTRY..Say what you want. CALL what you want...what you want ! Just try not to become such a fanatic, that you can't handle being made fun of, if you run across someone who disagrees with you.

Pete Hartmann

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6219_Rules 5,000+ Points

6219_Rules

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I don't know if you would be frowned upon necessarily...laughed at would be more appropriate.

Actually I have had nothing but welcomes and pleasant times in relation to the CCCA. They are good folk who focus on the restoration and preservation of cars that would have been scrapped and lost to us a long time ago.

Peter, I suspect what you are tilting against is a phenomenon you cannot beat. People, especially Americans, LIKE to be in conflict. They want to be able to say they are disliked, alone and against the oppressor. Our country, our society, thrives on competition and raises the standard of mediocrity to a new high because we LOVE the underdog. I have been noticing this for some time. It is apart of our culture. Anything that is rarified, sophisticated or uncommonly rich in intellectual depth is immediately met with suspicion and derision. I am constantly made aware of how we complain about the level of education in a country with the resources this one possesses and at the same time derides the 'geek', or the intellectual. We thrive in business and in education on maintaining a median ,,, rather than seek the higher level. We curve all grades so that the lazy, mediocre and profiligate minds of children no long must strive to succeed. And punish those that do by isolating them in 'special' classes.

I say this because my ex-wife and son were so treated. They have high IQs, and are excellent performers, and workers who strive to do their best. What happens? The education system pushed them into dead end 'special education' classes; my son's last job ended because he was not a team player...even though he constantly worked with his co-workers..his performance was too good and made the rest of them look bad. What kind of Nonsense is this? It is the way of society. Don't rock the boat for good or bad. Seek the middle ground so no one is offended or left feeling inadequate. It is a sickness that raises the lowest common denominator and rejects the highest.

So while this is all amusing, it is also rather sad. If you do not like the CCCA, then by all means leave it alone. No one is forcing you to attend or to be part of it. But don't feel you have to put down, vilify or insult the people who do want to be a part of it. That is not only wasteful, its puerile.

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6219_Rules 5,000+ Points

6219_Rules

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Poor fit, second rate material...but mostly the way the person wears it. People who regularly wear nice suits and have tuxedos wear them as if there were no difference between a Bill Blas and a Target warm up suit. My Uncle was a great clothes horse and took me to see his tailors, and one of the things I was taught was how a really fine suite of clothes is worn. It was a fascinating introduction for me as an early teen to know that there was a difference. His tailor on Savile Row in London was very hospitable. Sadly that is all gone the way of all good things. But the experience remains. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Hi, Hal !

Help me out..buddy...explain it to me..I aint that bright..tell me EXACTLY what in my "posts" you disagree with, so we can "hash it out" and learn something from each other.

Where some of you got the idea that we in the Classic Car Club Of America are a bunch of snobs...I have NO clue...our CARS...the ones that WE think are real classics...yes...those CARS are arrogant elitist snobs, jsut reeking with superiority...that is what they were designed to do...to be...and that is who they were designed FOR.

Lets take your favorite (the Model "A" Ford)....think about what road conditions were like in the late 20's - early 30's. Who would deny the brilliance of engineering, and the QUALITY of the durn thing, for what it was designed to do. Putting around city traffic - can ANYONE deny it was MORE than adequate for its designed task...and that a over 400 cu. in V-12 or V-16..which could go faster in SECOND gear, than a Model "A" could go in "high" was an absurd, snotty..arrogant excess!

Of COURSE...REALLY rich REALLY arrogant people wanted REALLY fast, powerful, arrogant excesses for automobiles...and in doing so..they got the BEST...some of us get a kick out of playing with those cars...

But...we are CAR BUFFS..again..dont confuse us with any particular car we play with.

Snobs ? Closed society...HAL...c'mon... anyone who says that...either never did actually participate in a CCCA event, or met one of the few "champagne glass" crowd...who are in the minority.

More than once, even when I was on the BOARD of the CCCA, I sometimes came to club events and tours in..well...how about a '36 American La France fire engine...siren screaming..red lights on....how about me coming to CCCA events on a motorcycle..several times, when we had "joint events" at airports..I came in airplanes....heck..man...the overwhelming majority of CCCA members love ANYTHING with gears, ANYTHING that goes "whrrr" or "whiz bang".

Now...here's what I did NOT do..after arriving at a CCCA event or tour, I did not try and violate our Club rules by PARTICIPATING with my wierdo vehicles in CCCA events. On tours, of COURSE we want participation - no problem..come in a non-CCCA classic, and "bring up the rear"...sometimes..the Region events have more non-classics FOLLOWING the Caravan of legit. classics, then are in the "classic" line-up !

Yes, CCCA rules are pretty restrictive as to what WE happen to think are classics, and what you can bring to our events and PARTICIPATE. (I ought to know..I WROTE some of em...!).

C'mon..HAL..give me a break..TALK to me about SPECIFIC items or issues. I suspect if we really "get into it'..we will find we have a HECK of a lot more in common, than in disagreement...tell me exactly...EXACTLY..on what issues you think we disagree...speak up man..let's RUMBLE !

Pete Hartmann

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