Rata Road Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 I took the points out to get them to align better and while I was in there I removed the "Electrolock" safety system. Car is neg earth 6v, I moved the coil from inside the car to the engine bay. Positive side of the coil is fed from the ign switch ( The redundant neg wire that was on the coil and went back to the switch is disconnected now). The positive wire gets power via key on/off. The neg side of coil is now attached to the distributor. I had to modify the distributor inlet feed when I removed the Electrolock but that is insulated and working correctly. I didn't pull the distributor out. Key on, points have spark when moved in/out. Car will not start, it backfires loudly but no starting. So then I used the thumb over the spark plug hole to find TDC on number 1 and found the Rotor is pointing 180 deg off? Is it possible that things have got that far out without removing the distributor? I tried rearranging the leads on the cap to line up with rotor position but no help. Should I lift the distributor and turn the rotor to line up with TDC? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playswithbrass Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 No. It cannot have done that by itself unless the pin that holds the gear to the distributor shaft has sheared. Are you sure you are on TDC compression and not TDC exhaust? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 (edited) 17 hours ago, Rata Road said: So then I used the thumb over the spark plug hole to find TDC on number 1 and found the Rotor is pointing 180 deg off? Yep, that's 180 out. Are you sure? I would take the plugs out, do it again (with a wrench) and bring it right up to TDC. Like playswithbrass said, it has to be the right TDC. The right one only comes up every other turn of the crank. 17 hours ago, Rata Road said: Is it possible that things have got that far out without removing the distributor? As playswithbrass also said, not unless a pin sheared (or some teeth stripped). 17 hours ago, Rata Road said: I tried rearranging the leads on the cap to line up with rotor position but no help. That should have worked. 17 hours ago, Rata Road said: Should I lift the distributor and turn the rotor to line up with TDC? You could do that, and pulling the distributor would allow you see if anything is sheared or broken. The downside is it might be tough to get back in. Or you could be *absolutely sure* you are on compression and not exhaust by turning it over with a wrench with the plugs out and doing the thumb trick, bringing it to exactly TDC, and watching which way the rotor turns. The points should have already just opened when you get to TDC. If not, turn distributor in opposite direction of rotor rotation until the points have just opened and clamp it down. Then the distributor tower the rotor points to is the new #1. Put #1 wire there, and follow around the cap with the other wires in the same direction the rotor turns, using the firing order as a guide. Edited July 27 by Bloo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viv w Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 Take the tappet cover off and turn the motor until the valves are rocking on number 6 cylinder, at this point the rotor should be firing on cylinder number one. Also check that the pinch bolt that holds the distributor to the block has not come loose. I had this happen on my 54 chev, the distributor pushed up enough to alter the timing and the motor stopped. I thought the cam gear had stripped and pulled the front off the motor only to find the timing had changed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 (edited) My guesses are.......... 1. you mis-aligned the rotor 2. You mis-aligned the cap 3. You mistook the exhaust for compression 4. When you modified the "infeed" you introduced a random and intermittant short to ground causing a random firing order. My prefered guess is a combination of 3 & 4 Extremely unlikely it jumped time and jumped to be exactly 180 off...........Bob Edited July 27 by Bhigdog (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted July 27 Author Share Posted July 27 Thanks for your feedback guys, All helpful suggestions and I appreciate you taking the time. If i hold my thumb over number 1 plug hole and it is puffing out air surely it cant be the exhaust stoke? 1. I Cant misalign the rotor, it only fits on one spot. 2. The Cap has a ridge to fit in top of dizzy plus the leads are stiff and wont allow it to be sat on 180 deg off 3. Surely I cant mistake exhaust for compression (I found the timing pointer in an open hole on the bellhousing) 4. Random short is a possibility but that wouldn't have the rotor parking 180 deg out. Viv's idea of the dizzy lifting slightly and turning is worth a check although the dizzy has a large chrome screw in grease cap that is still located in the same position as prior (almost up against the block). Bloo's idea of seeing if the points have just opened at TDC also sounds a good check. Its a head scratcher, was a perfect starter before Hot & Cold and now it wont run at all. I'm heading out soon to try your suggestions, I'll report back 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparksNArcs Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 Is it possible that the distributor is not fully seated against the crankcase? Since the distributor driveshaft operates the oil pump, if the pump slot and drive tang don't line up the distributor body will stick up a bit from the block. If it isn't held firmly by the clamp I suppose it could skip teeth while rotating and be all out of position. As far as TDC goes, I prefer to use the marks on the flywheel; did my dad's 51' Chevy 235 that way. The 1930 engine should have a window on the bellhousing that you can look through on the passengers side; here's a guide to the timing https://1931chevrolet.com/specs7c.htm Use the marks and the valve position to get an accurate TDC, should be easy to get running again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted July 28 Author Share Posted July 28 I pulled the dizzy out and pulled it apart and found that the springs on the centrifugal system under the points mounting plate were broken and the flappers so to speak weren't seating correctly and were jammed under the plate. I repaired the best I could, cut the springs and got them holding plus got it seated correctly and refitted it. Once in car I set the leads to number one after finding TDC. The good news is the car runs again but still misses badly when revving. I'm hoping the miss (which was the reason I tackled the dizzy) is from the condition of the centrifugal system under the points mounting plate. Not convinced it is the cause but will try and find a 2nd hand dizzy and see how that goes. Thanks again for all your ideas. I'll post if this fixes it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Installing a correct set of springs would be the next move. The can be robbed from a spare distributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 Here is a pic of what i found. The top arms are meant to be fitted flush with the bottom bits and you can see the spring is stretched and sitting under the top arms instead of on top.....I think! Not sure how that could happen. It will be interesting to see what it is meant to look like if I can find a working unit. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 OUCH! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 Might take a few weeks to source another distributor, living remote doesn't help. Next time in town I'll hunt through the Vintage Car Club parts shed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playswithbrass Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Is this what you need? If you pay postage I will send you one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 Wow thanks so much for the offer and I would have jumped at it but yesterday I thought I would try a replacement Rotor with one I saw in a bag of bits under the rear seat. When I tipped it out I found a selection of Distributor bits in the bag including 4 of those little springs. Hence the I pulled the distributor out again, pulled it apart and greased everything up and reassembled it. It looks like that is working correctly now, I still have the miss when revving but I'm confident its not the distributor now. Thanks again for the offer 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965cuda Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 is the miss like a cylinder miss fire or does it just not want to accelerate. if the heat riser is stuck open, the carburetor will run cold and pop back through the carburetor as well as stumble and cut out on acceleration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted August 5 Author Share Posted August 5 When I rev it it breaks down badly with a loud misfire. I took the carb off yesterday, I'll try to clean to best I can. I'm still getting flakes in the carby bowl even when I run the motor off a Gerry can with clean fuel so the only place these bits can come from is already in the Carb? Being up draught carb that passes through the exhaust manifold where is the heat riser? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Your #1 wire should be around the 5 o’clock position when your distributor is in the correct position looking down on it from the passenger side. Normally a pop or backfire at rev is a lean condition. I have sprayed brake cleaner in the carb when revving to see if the pop stops. If it does it is a lean condition. Pull your rocker cover and check your valve clearance on all cylinders. Check your plugs, keeping them in order, they should be brown to even blackish especially on a used motor. If all are white it’s usually the carb. If one is white, it’s often the valves at that cylinder. Plug gap is increased on these motors from the original.025 to .040-.045 because you need a bigger spark with today’s higher octane gas. Timing also gets increased from the original 12dbtc to 18dbtdc. Older engines cannot often take this much advance and you’ll find 14-15dtdc works better. Have you tried pulling your spark retard to see if it runs differently? All modern tuning information for these cars can be found by googling Bill Barkers ‘31 chevy site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Your Carter carburetor is an updraft and the main jet is at the bottom. When accelerating a needle attached to the butterfly lifts in the main jet allowing more fuel to pull up through the jet. If there is nothing in the jet, (very easy to observe with the carb out and bowl off) and the needle is still attached to the butterfly and raising when the linkage is rotated then this part of the carb is fine. There is a small jet on the bottom of the carb in the side when the main jet is. This lets the fuel in to the bottom of carb and must not be blocked. I can look at my carbs tomorrow to give you a better understanding of the jetting and operation. Does your carburetor have the accelerator pump on the side? Is your popping only happening when you first push the accelerator down or is it a continuous pop at higher rpm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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