61 LeSabre transmission not going into high stall mode after rebuild

[61LeSabre]

I've since moved and can't return to the shop.  I've already checked the linkage adjustment at the carburetor and it's good per the factory manual.  Any ideas on things to check?

[rocketraider]

Was the torque converter replaced in the rebuild?

[JohnD1956]

15 hours ago, 61LeSabre said:

I've since moved and can't return to the shop.  I've already checked the linkage adjustment at the carburetor and it's good per the factory manual.  Any ideas on things to check?

Can you explain your concern a little better?  What do you think the trans should do that it doesn't do?  It seems to me that you are looking for some sort of discernable shift at some point, but a Dynaflow does not have any discernable shifts except a distinct pickup when the stator's pitch is changed due to heavy acceleration while underway. 

[61LeSabre]

24 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said:

Can you explain your concern a little better?  What do you think the trans should do that it doesn't do?  It seems to me that you are looking for some sort of discernable shift at some point, but a Dynaflow does not have any discernable shifts except a distinct pickup when the stator's pitch is changed due to heavy acceleration while underway. 

You explained it perfectly. It's not going into high stall mode under hard acceleration.

[61LeSabre]

12 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Was the torque converter replaced in the rebuild?

No, it wasn't unless he decided he wanted it.

[JohnD1956]

It sounds like the accumulator is not functioning properly.  The 56 manual has (I believe) tests that would be done to test the accumulator function.  Does the 61 Manual indicate available testing methods?  

[61LeSabre]

9 hours ago, JohnD1956 said:

It sounds like the accumulator is not functioning properly.  The 56 manual has (I believe) tests that would be done to test the accumulator function.  Does the 61 Manual indicate available testing methods?  

It should I'll take a look.

[XframeFX]

On 3/6/2024 at 3:50 PM, 61LeSabre said:

I've already checked the linkage adjustment at the carburetor and it's good per the factory manual.  Any ideas on things to check?

Have you locked the linkage in High Pitch mode and observed creep at idle and of course, more aggressive acceleration?

 

Do you know what response to expect with high pitch engaged? I'm struggling with this as well. How noticeable should high pitch be from the Driver's seat? of course this has to be done at WOT. It is the reason I tried locking the linkage in high pitch for testing purposes.

My linkage moves only about 1/4". The manual does not elaborate. I can only look at the cut-away illustrations to study the mechanical connections to the torque convertor.

 

BTW, the torque convertor in a twin turbine IS-THE-TRANSMISSION. The pig behind it is a range selector consisting on Oil Pumps, sump, transient Low and Reverse gears plus parking pawl and speedo take-off. So at the mercy of a competent rebuilder to do the torque convertor correctly.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 8 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[Smartin]

I would be absolutely sure your linkage is set up correctly.  Have someone get in the car and put the accelerator to the floor.  Verify it is completely engaging the high stall linkage.

[60FlatTop]

My first thought was that the linkage was still lying on the bench.

[61LeSabre]

On 3/8/2024 at 1:10 PM, XframeFX said:

Have you locked the linkage in High Pitch mode and observed creep at idle and of course, more aggressive acceleration?

 

Do you know what response to expect with high pitch engaged? I'm struggling with this as well. How noticeable should high pitch be from the Driver's seat? of course this has to be done at WOT. It is the reason I tried locking the linkage in high pitch for testing purposes.

My linkage moves only about 1/4". The manual does not elaborate. I can only look at the cut-away illustrations to study the mechanical connections to the torque convertor.

 

BTW, the torque convertor in a twin turbine IS-THE-TRANSMISSION. The pig behind it is a range selector consisting on Oil Pumps, sump, transient Low and Reverse gears plus parking pawl and speedo take-off. So at the mercy of a competent rebuilder to do the torque convertor correctly.

 

 

 

 

Yea I noticed right away it wouldn't switch into high stall mode with aggressive acceleration. Nor does it go into high stall mode at idle.  There was almost zero creep before rebuild.  I checked the carb linkage per the manual and it is spot on.  The manual does not mention much for the transmission side.  I have yet to jack the car up and see how it is connected.  Sounds like there is not a lot I can do externally and good shop will have dive in to see why it is not switching stall.  Thanks for the input.  I wonder if there is a shop in Florida that works on Turbine drives.

[61LeSabre]

On 3/8/2024 at 7:11 PM, Smartin said:

I would be absolutely sure your linkage is set up correctly.  Have someone get in the car and put the accelerator to the floor.  Verify it is completely engaging the high stall linkage.

I did that myself under the hood, and it's adjusted correctly per the manual.

[XframeFX]

7 hours ago, 61LeSabre said:

Yea I noticed right away it wouldn't switch into high stall mode with aggressive acceleration. Nor does it go into high stall mode at idle.  There was almost zero creep before rebuild.

Oh Oh, so my rebuilder probably took it out. Can't rely on any shop to do it right! That's it, the ST400 swap has moved higher up on my list or sell the car, enough!

 

So, I take it that if the Dynaslow transitioned to high pitch, you'd certainly Notice!

[NTX5467]

If you sell the car, what will you replace it with?

[JohnD1956]

@61LeSabre may I ask which carburator you have on the car?

[61LeSabre]

12 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said:

@61LeSabre may I ask which carburator you have on the car?

Yes, I have the correct Stromberg two barrel.

[JohnD1956]

2 hours ago, 61LeSabre said:

Yes, I have the correct Stromberg two barrel.

Thanks. I had asked because my direct prior experience involved a Rochester 4 bbl where the linkage for the secondaries was installed upside down and prevented them from opening. Obviously this could not be the problem in this case. 

[61LeSabre]

39 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said:

Thanks. I had asked because my direct prior experience involved a Rochester 4 bbl where the linkage for the secondaries was installed upside down and prevented them from opening. Obviously this could not be the problem in this case. 

Thanks for asking, everything was working fine before the rebuild.  The carb linkage adjustment looks untouched but it's operating exactly as the factory service manual states.  I'd like to get a handle on the switch pitch circuit before I take it to the trans shop.  My neighbor owns one but he's not familiar with a Dynaflow.

[60FlatTop]

I took my '60 Electra out for coffee this morning and since reading this topic I paid particular attention to the operation of the transmission in Drive. It was rebuilt 3 years ago due to leaking seals.

 

It is a 401 with a Rochester 4 barrel. I am not a WOT driver. My cars rarely exceed 3,000 RPM. My car is smooth and responsive with no feeling of torque converter change. I would never think of calling it slow by any means. Half throttle from a standing start gives very peppy performance. Half throttle acceleration on a country road is good enough to make long time BCA member, Scott Heise giggle.

[61LeSabre]

14 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

I took my '60 Electra out for coffee this morning and since reading this topic I paid particular attention to the operation of the transmission in Drive. It was rebuilt 3 years ago due to leaking seals.

 

It is a 401 with a Rochester 4 barrel. I am not a WOT driver. My cars rarely exceed 3,000 RPM. My car is smooth and responsive with no feeling of torque converter change. I would never think of calling it slow by any means. Half throttle from a standing start gives very peppy performance. Half throttle acceleration on a country road is good enough to make long time BCA member, Scott Heise giggle.

You don't have to go WOT to feel high stall mode kick in.  I forget how much throttle but maybe 1/2 would be enough. It will feel like a downshift, the engine will rev and take off.  At idle it will also go into high stall mode  to decouple the transmission and may not even creep with your foot off the brake in drive.